I've been incredibly happy and impressed with Improved Divine Smite on my paladin and that comes on at level 11, so the elemental damage feels a bit over tuned to me. It's also a big feel bad that Reckless doesn't work with thrown weapons.
Otherwise, I like it a good deal. I'm a hulk fan, whatever
Improved Divine Smite automatically applies to every melee weapon you pick up. Elemental Cleaver only works on one weapon while you're raging. Plus it's a D8 and of a damage type that fewer creatures are immune or resistant to.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I like it but I feel that it needs tweaking. I haven't done an extensive analysis but it looks like it is even better damage than Path of the Zealot. Though it does come online 3 levels later.
Growing in size is nice for grappling but Path of the Beast does it better. By the time Path of the Giant gets to throw Medium size enemies Path of the Beast has been grappling and jumping 10ft in the air with Large enemies for 4 levels.
However to me the interesting thing about this subclass is it's specialization in throwing weapons. Getting to throw a great axe is awesome but I wish it came at lvl 3.
Also of I were playing this I would absolutely hoard any Large/Huge weapons I find and pray for the day I fight an Oni.
I like it. His is the first Barbarian subclass I’ve really wanted to play. It’s the first one that can do ranged or melee with equal skill, and control the battlefield, and throw a fastball special to boot. I do wish it could throw an enemy at another enemy and have it damage them both though, but I understand why you can’t. But the idea of throwing a giant flaming greataxe around the battlefield makes me happy.
I like it. His is the first Barbarian subclass I’ve really wanted to play. It’s the first one that can do ranged or melee with equal skill, and control the battlefield, and throw a fastball special to boot. I do wish it could throw an enemy at another enemy and have it damage them both though, but I understand why you can’t. But the idea of throwing a giant flaming greataxe around the battlefield makes me happy.
Technically with Tasha's Falling onto a Creature rule you can. If there is an enemy within 30ft you can throw a creature within your reach so that the creature you throw falls on the enemy.
I like it. His is the first Barbarian subclass I’ve really wanted to play. It’s the first one that can do ranged or melee with equal skill, and control the battlefield, and throw a fastball special to boot. I do wish it could throw an enemy at another enemy and have it damage them both though, but I understand why you can’t. But the idea of throwing a giant flaming greataxe around the battlefield makes me happy.
Technically with Tasha's Falling onto a Creature rule you can. If there is an enemy within 30ft you can throw a creature within your reach so that the creature you throw falls on the enemy.
Oh, one serious point against Path of the Giant is that its only feature when not Raging is the ability to speak Giant and cast Druidcraft/Thaumaturgy. Literally every other class feature is only active while Raging.
Most barbarian subclasses only have one or two abilities that can be used when you're not raging, and the Battle Rager doesn't have any at all unless you count proficiency with spiked armor.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Most barbarian subclasses only have one or two abilities that can be used when you're not raging, and the Battle Rager doesn't have any at all unless you count proficiency with spiked armor.
I suppose that is true, but usually it is something with a bit more oomph that comes later.
Most barbarian subclasses only have one or two abilities that can be used when you're not raging, and the Battle Rager doesn't have any at all unless you count proficiency with spiked armor.
I suppose that is true, but usually it is something with a bit more oomph that comes later.
How much use does the Ancestral Guardian's divination spells really get? And the Zealot's only power that doesn't require raging is their ability to be raised from the dead without the costly material component.
I like it; there are definitely some changes I'd make for the final release, but overall it's pretty good already (and reasonably balanced IMO).
Giant Power: Free language and a cantrip, not bad. Both cantrips are great for a bit of out of combat utility.
Giant's Havoc: Rage Damage on a thrown weapon is minor but interesting. Increase in reach is substantial as it means a 10-foot reach with a greataxe or 15-foot with a full-sized polearm. The increase in size is actually significant as well, as it means you can Grapple and Shove Huge targets, carry/lift/push/drag twice as much, be mobile cover for allies, and a few other side benefits, as well as controlling a larger area, so with your reach it's not just a 25-foot circle as for a Medium creature, it's 30-foot (or 40-foot with a polearm), that's a massive zone of control.
Elemental Cleaver: This is where the Rage Damage on thrown comes into its own as that two-handed axe or polearm from earlier? Now it's a returning weapon with extra elemental damage per hit that can also be a magic weapon in its own right (returning flame tongue, anyone?).
Mighty Impel: While it might seem like this is something "you could just do anyway", there's more to it than that. Firstly, to throw something as standard you need to "hold" them, so arguably a Grapple first, then you can attempt to throw them like an improvised weapon, costing you at least two attacks. This feature lets you just straight up throw anyone a guaranteed 30-feet at anytime as a bonus action on top of making your normal attacks. The one thing I'd change is to make it an opposed Strength check for the unwilling creatures, since Barbarians are good at those, plus I don't like when I don't get to roll for something. While this doesn't let you directly do any damage, in combination with environmental hazards, area effect spells (e.g- hunger of hadar, spike growth etc.) it becomes a nasty third pseudo-attack, or you can use it to reposition allies away from trouble, nearer to a crucial target, or just yeet enemies away so they can't attack or to trigger any reactions you have if they come back.
Demiurgic Collosus: I actually love this for a 14th-level Barbarian feature, and wish more Barbarian sub-classes were like this, as it's a level many campaigns don't get to, and really all it does is take what you've already got and upscales it. Huge with +10 foot reach means your area of control is now a giant 45-feet without polearm, or 55-feet with one; with a polearm you can straight up melee attack from 20-feet away without throwing anything. Make it Reckless for the advantage? Why not, if you step back they can't hit you back anyway! Plus being Huge means you can grapple Gargantuan creatures. That's right, you're a Barbarian who can pin a dragon (shove prone then grapple).
Overall it's quite a good package. I'm picturing one with polearm master, just yeeting enemies away then reaction attacking then when they re-enter their reach (for a pretty much guaranteed three attacks per turn), or great weapon master with a battleaxe so you can grapple, shove, and use your reach to mess up hordes.
My only issue with the sub-class is that thanks to the reach bonuses the benefits of throwing a weapon are a bit marginal, as you can equal the 20-foot short range with a polearm and the extended reach (a Bugbear can do it from 3rd-level), meaning you're at disadvantage if you use it to gain any extra distance. Since Reckless Attack only works with melee weapon attacks you sadly can't use that as a counter, so I think I'd like to see that added.
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I keep trying to paste one thing, but can't seem to do it on mobile without messing it up so never mind.
Edit: Ok, now that I am at my computer.
I had initially miss read parts of Haravikk's post. I blame the lack of coffee this morning.
I agree with over all assessment of the Subclass. I really like it, except for the fact that the increased reach makes the throwing range of the weapons pointless. I feel like there should be an added benefit of Demiugic Colossus that increases the throwing range of weapons.
Crushing Hurl: This is ok, but since you can't Reckless Attack when you throw the weapon, Ancestor Barbarians are still way better with a javelin, as the debuff they inflict is better than your Rage damage.
Giant Stature: Reach doesn't increase the range of your thrown weapons, which I suspect is what OP meant about lack of synergy, while it *does* cripple your ability to make OAs. However, being 10 feet wide makes you a lot better at being in the way of incoming damage, which is your job as a Barbarian. Biggest flaw: it's mandatory, which is rubbed in your face later, as when you gain access to Huge, it's optional.
Elemental Cleaver: Leaning into throwing weapons is still bad because you still can't Reckless Attack, but Lightning is an excellent damage type, and if you're fighting something where that's a problem, you can swap to Acid after the fight starts. Being specifically designed not to work with two-weapon fighting is a bizarre choice and WOTC should feel bad about making it.
Mighty Impel: Particularly excellent if you don't have a racial fly speed. Stand between your friends when you rage so you don't become Large (the benefits are very limited anyway) and enjoy your ability to jump 30 feet as a bonus action because you can throw yourself. The biggest problem Barbs have is reaching the enemy - a 30 foot bonus action move does wonders for that.
Demiurgic Colossus: the damage increase is reasonable, but the big seller is you no longer need your friends nearby when you rage - you can choose not to become Huge and as a Large creature you can just throw yourself.
Overall, I'm a lot less than genuinely impressed. The only thing the subclass gets genuinely worth writing home about comes on at level 10 and is self-evidently the result of WOTC's ongoing failure to proofread their own rules. You'll feel a lot more like a Giant playing a Totem barbarian and grabbing the ability to carry more stuff.
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I like it but the abilities have disynergy.
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Love it and the abilities have more synergy than you think.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I've been incredibly happy and impressed with Improved Divine Smite on my paladin and that comes on at level 11, so the elemental damage feels a bit over tuned to me. It's also a big feel bad that Reckless doesn't work with thrown weapons.
Otherwise, I like it a good deal. I'm a hulk fan, whatever
Improved Divine Smite automatically applies to every melee weapon you pick up. Elemental Cleaver only works on one weapon while you're raging. Plus it's a D8 and of a damage type that fewer creatures are immune or resistant to.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I like it but I feel that it needs tweaking. I haven't done an extensive analysis but it looks like it is even better damage than Path of the Zealot. Though it does come online 3 levels later.
Growing in size is nice for grappling but Path of the Beast does it better. By the time Path of the Giant gets to throw Medium size enemies Path of the Beast has been grappling and jumping 10ft in the air with Large enemies for 4 levels.
However to me the interesting thing about this subclass is it's specialization in throwing weapons. Getting to throw a great axe is awesome but I wish it came at lvl 3.
Also of I were playing this I would absolutely hoard any Large/Huge weapons I find and pray for the day I fight an Oni.
I like it. His is the first Barbarian subclass I’ve really wanted to play. It’s the first one that can do ranged or melee with equal skill, and control the battlefield, and throw a fastball special to boot. I do wish it could throw an enemy at another enemy and have it damage them both though, but I understand why you can’t. But the idea of throwing a giant flaming greataxe around the battlefield makes me happy.
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Technically with Tasha's Falling onto a Creature rule you can. If there is an enemy within 30ft you can throw a creature within your reach so that the creature you throw falls on the enemy.
I hadn’t thought of that.
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Oh, one serious point against Path of the Giant is that its only feature when not Raging is the ability to speak Giant and cast Druidcraft/Thaumaturgy. Literally every other class feature is only active while Raging.
Most barbarian subclasses only have one or two abilities that can be used when you're not raging, and the Battle Rager doesn't have any at all unless you count proficiency with spiked armor.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I suppose that is true, but usually it is something with a bit more oomph that comes later.
How much use does the Ancestral Guardian's divination spells really get? And the Zealot's only power that doesn't require raging is their ability to be raised from the dead without the costly material component.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I like it; there are definitely some changes I'd make for the final release, but overall it's pretty good already (and reasonably balanced IMO).
Overall it's quite a good package. I'm picturing one with polearm master, just yeeting enemies away then reaction attacking then when they re-enter their reach (for a pretty much guaranteed three attacks per turn), or great weapon master with a battleaxe so you can grapple, shove, and use your reach to mess up hordes.
My only issue with the sub-class is that thanks to the reach bonuses the benefits of throwing a weapon are a bit marginal, as you can equal the 20-foot short range with a polearm and the extended reach (a Bugbear can do it from 3rd-level), meaning you're at disadvantage if you use it to gain any extra distance. Since Reckless Attack only works with melee weapon attacks you sadly can't use that as a counter, so I think I'd like to see that added.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Another thing about PAM is that the extra attack it grants you will also benefit from Elemental Cleaver's damage boost.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Darn fingers
I keep trying to paste one thing, but can't seem to do it on mobile without messing it up so never mind.
Edit: Ok, now that I am at my computer.
I had initially miss read parts of Haravikk's post. I blame the lack of coffee this morning.
I agree with over all assessment of the Subclass. I really like it, except for the fact that the increased reach makes the throwing range of the weapons pointless. I feel like there should be an added benefit of Demiugic Colossus that increases the throwing range of weapons.
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Crushing Hurl: This is ok, but since you can't Reckless Attack when you throw the weapon, Ancestor Barbarians are still way better with a javelin, as the debuff they inflict is better than your Rage damage.
Giant Stature: Reach doesn't increase the range of your thrown weapons, which I suspect is what OP meant about lack of synergy, while it *does* cripple your ability to make OAs. However, being 10 feet wide makes you a lot better at being in the way of incoming damage, which is your job as a Barbarian. Biggest flaw: it's mandatory, which is rubbed in your face later, as when you gain access to Huge, it's optional.
Elemental Cleaver: Leaning into throwing weapons is still bad because you still can't Reckless Attack, but Lightning is an excellent damage type, and if you're fighting something where that's a problem, you can swap to Acid after the fight starts. Being specifically designed not to work with two-weapon fighting is a bizarre choice and WOTC should feel bad about making it.
Mighty Impel: Particularly excellent if you don't have a racial fly speed. Stand between your friends when you rage so you don't become Large (the benefits are very limited anyway) and enjoy your ability to jump 30 feet as a bonus action because you can throw yourself. The biggest problem Barbs have is reaching the enemy - a 30 foot bonus action move does wonders for that.
Demiurgic Colossus: the damage increase is reasonable, but the big seller is you no longer need your friends nearby when you rage - you can choose not to become Huge and as a Large creature you can just throw yourself.
Overall, I'm a lot less than genuinely impressed. The only thing the subclass gets genuinely worth writing home about comes on at level 10 and is self-evidently the result of WOTC's ongoing failure to proofread their own rules. You'll feel a lot more like a Giant playing a Totem barbarian and grabbing the ability to carry more stuff.