1st level characters, just killed your first band of goblins or kobolds. The poor quality daggers and short swords collected is now the fuel/ material for your Forge Cleric to make chainmail for your fighter, then a longsword or a battle-axe that he previously could not afford. Studded armor for your rogue. Beautiful new mace or a shield with his holy symbol emblazoned on the front. Imagine you are in a dungeon and realize after your first encounter that only magic works because you have no silver weapons. Silver coins or trinkets just became a longsword and an axe. If your DM is creative, you could all be captured and disarmed. As you figure out how to escape and end up with a surplus of bad gear, the cleric makes better gear as you find places to rest and hide. New spell book with ornate silver binding as a gift to a wizard. , a plethora of throwing axes and daggers and arrows. You need an offering to a strange frog worshipping cult in the swamp, bam, beautiful detailed metal statue. The 100 gp limit is also a fluid limit designed to keep you from making it a cash machine, but a DM has the power to allow or deny as it makes sense. This game is about imagination. Expand yours and be creative.
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours.
Poor quality daggers and shortswords can't be turned into chain mail. Bad gear can't be turned into better gear. The Channel Divinity requires that you lay out metal equal to the value of the object that you create.
And the 100gp limit isn't fluid. It's very rigid RAW.
Of course, a DM can ignore RAW and make house rules that override the RAW, but of course the DM could choose to give you the benefits of the Forge Cleric's level 17 ability at level 1. DMs can do whatever they want. But if you're suggesting that the way to "fix" a Cleric ability is to make it far more powerful than it is according to RAW, then you're entering very dangerous territory. DMs need to be extremely careful about making PCs much more powerful than they should be according to RAW.
1st level characters, just killed your first band of goblins or kobolds. The poor quality daggers and short swords collected is now the fuel/ material for your Forge Cleric to make chainmail for your fighter, then a longsword or a battle-axe that he previously could not afford. Studded armor for your rogue. Beautiful new mace or a shield with his holy symbol emblazoned on the front. Imagine you are in a dungeon and realize after your first encounter that only magic works because you have no silver weapons. Silver coins or trinkets just became a longsword and an axe. If your DM is creative, you could all be captured and disarmed. As you figure out how to escape and end up with a surplus of bad gear, the cleric makes better gear as you find places to rest and hide. New spell book with ornate silver binding as a gift to a wizard. , a plethora of throwing axes and daggers and arrows. You need an offering to a strange frog worshipping cult in the swamp, bam, beautiful detailed metal statue. The 100 gp limit is also a fluid limit designed to keep you from making it a cash machine, but a DM has the power to allow or deny as it makes sense. This game is about imagination. Expand yours and be creative.
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours.
Poor quality daggers and shortswords can't be turned into chain mail. Bad gear can't be turned into better gear. The Channel Divinity requires that you lay out metal equal to the value of the object that you create.
And the 100gp limit isn't fluid. It's very rigid RAW.
Of course, a DM can ignore RAW and make house rules that override the RAW, but of course the DM could choose to give you the benefits of the Forge Cleric's level 17 ability at level 1. DMs can do whatever they want. But if you're suggesting that the way to "fix" a Cleric ability is to make it far more powerful than it is according to RAW, then you're entering very dangerous territory. DMs need to be extremely careful about making PCs much more powerful than they should be according to RAW.
1st level characters, just killed your first band of goblins or kobolds. The poor quality daggers and short swords collected is now the fuel/ material for your Forge Cleric to make chainmail for your fighter, then a longsword or a battle-axe that he previously could not afford. Studded armor for your rogue. Beautiful new mace or a shield with his holy symbol emblazoned on the front. Imagine you are in a dungeon and realize after your first encounter that only magic works because you have no silver weapons. Silver coins or trinkets just became a longsword and an axe. If your DM is creative, you could all be captured and disarmed. As you figure out how to escape and end up with a surplus of bad gear, the cleric makes better gear as you find places to rest and hide. New spell book with ornate silver binding as a gift to a wizard. , a plethora of throwing axes and daggers and arrows. You need an offering to a strange frog worshipping cult in the swamp, bam, beautiful detailed metal statue. The 100 gp limit is also a fluid limit designed to keep you from making it a cash machine, but a DM has the power to allow or deny as it makes sense. This game is about imagination. Expand yours and be creative.
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours.
Poor quality daggers and shortswords can't be turned into chain mail. Bad gear can't be turned into better gear. The Channel Divinity requires that you lay out metal equal to the value of the object that you create.
And the 100gp limit isn't fluid. It's very rigid RAW.
Of course, a DM can ignore RAW and make house rules that override the RAW, but of course the DM could choose to give you the benefits of the Forge Cleric's level 17 ability at level 1. DMs can do whatever they want. But if you're suggesting that the way to "fix" a Cleric ability is to make it far more powerful than it is according to RAW, then you're entering very dangerous territory. DMs need to be extremely careful about making PCs much more powerful than they should be according to RAW.
If something has a value that is undefined, then the DM assigns it a value. This is the RAW.
Basic Rules, page 45:
"Arms, Armor, and Other Equipment. As a general rule, undamaged weapons, armor, and other equipment fetch half their cost when sold in a market. Weapons and armor used by monsters are rarely in good enough condition to sell."
Dude, you're not going to one-up me by quoting the section of the rules I just invoked. The DM assigns the value of what has been looted. End of discussion.
Dude, you're not going to one-up me by quoting the section of the rules I just invoked. The DM assigns the value of what has been looted. End of discussion.
If it's not in good enough condition to sell, then how is it not worthless?
How much clearer do they need to spell things out for you?
Dude, you're not going to one-up me by quoting the section of the rules I just invoked. The DM assigns the value of what has been looted. End of discussion.
If it's not in good enough condition to sell, then how is it not worthless?
How much clearer do they need to spell things out for you?
I specifically cited the hobgoblin and orc as examples of creatures who actually care about their weapons. You can go and read their entries in the Monster Manual, if you don't believe me.
In any case, "usually" does not mean always. And whether something is junk or not is up to the DM to decide. Anything without a prescribed value means the DM assigns one. You don't have to like it, but that's the honest to goodness truth.
1st level characters, just killed your first band of goblins or kobolds. The poor quality daggers and short swords collected is now the fuel/ material for your Forge Cleric to make chainmail for your fighter, then a longsword or a battle-axe that he previously could not afford. Studded armor for your rogue. Beautiful new mace or a shield with his holy symbol emblazoned on the front. Imagine you are in a dungeon and realize after your first encounter that only magic works because you have no silver weapons. Silver coins or trinkets just became a longsword and an axe. If your DM is creative, you could all be captured and disarmed. As you figure out how to escape and end up with a surplus of bad gear, the cleric makes better gear as you find places to rest and hide. New spell book with ornate silver binding as a gift to a wizard. , a plethora of throwing axes and daggers and arrows. You need an offering to a strange frog worshipping cult in the swamp, bam, beautiful detailed metal statue. The 100 gp limit is also a fluid limit designed to keep you from making it a cash machine, but a DM has the power to allow or deny as it makes sense. This game is about imagination. Expand yours and be creative.
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours.
Poor quality daggers and shortswords can't be turned into chain mail. Bad gear can't be turned into better gear. The Channel Divinity requires that you lay out metal equal to the value of the object that you create.
And the 100gp limit isn't fluid. It's very rigid RAW.
Of course, a DM can ignore RAW and make house rules that override the RAW, but of course the DM could choose to give you the benefits of the Forge Cleric's level 17 ability at level 1. DMs can do whatever they want. But if you're suggesting that the way to "fix" a Cleric ability is to make it far more powerful than it is according to RAW, then you're entering very dangerous territory. DMs need to be extremely careful about making PCs much more powerful than they should be according to RAW.
If something has a value that is undefined, then the DM assigns it a value. This is the RAW.
Basic Rules, page 45:
"Arms, Armor, and Other Equipment. As a general rule, undamaged weapons, armor, and other equipment fetch half their cost when sold in a market. Weapons and armor used by monsters are rarely in good enough condition to sell."
thinking about this ability from a narrative perspective, i find it hard to believe that the limitations placed on Artisan's Blessing have anything to do with market forces. Most adventurers would gladly buy equipment that is rather "well worn" for 90- 100% of the market value as long as it still has the same mechanical effects. Conversely in some isolated and peaceful halfling community any weapons whatsoever might be entirely worthless since nobody around those parts uses them and very few people who do need weapons arrive at the town. The value of an object is entirely arbitrary.
It does not matter that a greataxe has a few dents in it. When you are using sacred energies to transmute it into something else, said greataxe will be just as useful for making new things as it was back when it was first made. Yours is the god of forges, not the god of merchants.
then again it could also be an sacrificial offering type deal, it's like asking "in dnd, are gemstones so valuable becuase we can use them as component for Resurrection spells or do Resurrection spells use gemstones as components because humans find them valiuable, thus making them a worthy sacrifice"
Dude, you're not going to one-up me by quoting the section of the rules I just invoked. The DM assigns the value of what has been looted. End of discussion.
If it's not in good enough condition to sell, then how is it not worthless?
How much clearer do they need to spell things out for you?
there is a big distinction between "not good enough to sell" and "worthless". The dead orc you took said greataxe from certainly did not think that his weapon was worthless, even if it is too dirty, too rusty and to beaten up to sell to any self-respecting merchant in a town where we can produce higher-quality weapons, becuase it is something he or she can use to decapitate innocent civilians and cause havoc during raids of other settlements. If you could choose between that greataxe and using your fists, most people would probably prefer using it. If you find some settlement with a woefully under equipped town guard or some aspiring fighter so dirt-poor that they cannot afford a proper greataxe from a proper blacksmith, they might buy that axe just fine for perhaps 1-2 sp or more depending on how desperate they are.
also does not change the fact that as the guy above said multiple times, the dm decides the value of an object and can put the price of an given item willy-nilly. If they DM says 1000 gp for a random dagger, that's the price. If the dm says 1 copper piece for a greatsword, that's the price.
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
If you can't sell it, it doesn't have value. That's how its value is determined.
D&D 5e isn't meant to be like some video game where you can loot gear off every enemy you kill and sell it all to a merchant in town for money. Of course the DM can choose to make it that way, but that's not how it's supposed to be according to the rules as written.
If your DM wants to do it that way, it's your DM's right to do that. If you want to change the rules to make the Forge Cleric more powerful, it's the DM's right to do that. But you need to be very careful when changing the rules to make a PC more powerful, especially when it's something like a Forge Cleric that really doesn't need a DM to make houserules to make it more powerful.
If you can't sell it, it doesn't have value. That's how its value is determined.
D&D 5e isn't meant to be like some video game where you can loot gear off every enemy you kill and sell it all to a merchant in town for money. Of course the DM can choose to make it that way, but that's not how it's supposed to be according to the rules as written.
If your DM wants to do it that way, it's your DM's right to do that. If you want to change the rules to make the Forge Cleric more powerful, it's the DM's right to do that. But you need to be very careful when changing the rules to make a PC more powerful, especially when it's something like a Forge Cleric that really doesn't need a DM to make houserules to make it more powerful.
All of this is true, except that nobody is changing the rules. Anything which doesn't have an explicit value is left for the DM to determine. This has always been the case. "Usually" weapons and armor carried by "monsters" isn't worth anything. But what constitutes a monster? Is it anything, and everything, found in the Monster Manual? And, if so, what are the exceptions? Which weapons and armor could be considered to have monetary value? Off the top of my head?
azer
angels
duergar
drow
giants
hobgoblins
orcs (specifically their metal axes)
NPC
Every possible item that can be found is a specific example that may run counter to a general rule. Because specific always beats general.
Never was it my intention to cause an argument at this level. I was trying to be positive about an ability some people claimed was worthless. So it takes ten short swords for the DM to let me make a longsword, or five longswords to make my barbarian a great axe. Maybe 20 studded leather armors to make chainmail. All I was trying to point out is you are limited to your imagination and 2nd level characters could end up with better gear scavenging well and the DM being kind. Would be a fun way to start the Forge domain. Later using the optional rules, letting trade the divinity for a spell slot is a great option too for later on. It was not my intent to disgrace RAW or the DM judgement. I was just trying to point out a potential positive. Like I said, it is easy to point out everything wrong with every idea, but to take an idea and try to make it better is a talent that can be cultivated. Sorry for the drama.
And I absolutely love that loud mouth club thing i keep seeing. Being un-offendable is a great attribute i wish more people had. awesome.
1st level characters, just killed your first band of goblins or kobolds. The poor quality daggers and short swords collected is now the fuel/ material for your Forge Cleric to make chainmail for your fighter, then a longsword or a battle-axe that he previously could not afford. Studded armor for your rogue. Beautiful new mace or a shield with his holy symbol emblazoned on the front. Imagine you are in a dungeon and realize after your first encounter that only magic works because you have no silver weapons. Silver coins or trinkets just became a longsword and an axe. If your DM is creative, you could all be captured and disarmed. As you figure out how to escape and end up with a surplus of bad gear, the cleric makes better gear as you find places to rest and hide. New spell book with ornate silver binding as a gift to a wizard. , a plethora of throwing axes and daggers and arrows. You need an offering to a strange frog worshipping cult in the swamp, bam, beautiful detailed metal statue. The 100 gp limit is also a fluid limit designed to keep you from making it a cash machine, but a DM has the power to allow or deny as it makes sense. This game is about imagination. Expand yours and be creative.
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours.
Poor quality daggers and shortswords can't be turned into chain mail. Bad gear can't be turned into better gear. The Channel Divinity requires that you lay out metal equal to the value of the object that you create.
And the 100gp limit isn't fluid. It's very rigid RAW.
Of course, a DM can ignore RAW and make house rules that override the RAW, but of course the DM could choose to give you the benefits of the Forge Cleric's level 17 ability at level 1. DMs can do whatever they want. But if you're suggesting that the way to "fix" a Cleric ability is to make it far more powerful than it is according to RAW, then you're entering very dangerous territory. DMs need to be extremely careful about making PCs much more powerful than they should be according to RAW.
If something has a value that is undefined, then the DM assigns it a value. This is the RAW.
Basic Rules, page 45:
"Arms, Armor, and Other Equipment. As a general rule, undamaged weapons, armor, and other equipment fetch half their cost when sold in a market. Weapons and armor used by monsters are rarely in good enough condition to sell."
Just because a weapon cant be sold as a weapon doesn't mean it has no value. All materials have value those items are made of something and that quantity of something has to therefore have a value. Sure its a broken sword that i cant sell as a sword but its made of metal i can melt that metal down and make it into a chunk of metal that has to have some form of value. sure demand for scrap metal may be low but it has value and that value is set by the dm. In my campaign we were in the middle of a dungeon that had a forge in a broken down destitute forge that had a bunch of broken hammer heads in it from all the smithing tools. i collected all those heads up so i could have a bunch of raw material specifically for the artisans blessing. Later in the dungeon when the green dragon took my characters keg of ale (skyhand has a drinking problem) after the dragon had fled from the buttkicking he had received that night skyhand used artisans blessing to make himself a brand new full keg of ale. Artisans blessing like so many of the other non combat abilities of dnd has few limits to what can be done with it in the hands of a player and character with a sufficient imagination and out of the box thinking. gabrielrockman Just because you want to be a rules lawyer with no creative imagination that wants to stifle players abilities to play dnd as the open world imaginative game it is doesnt mean every other dm in existence feels the same. One of the best things about dnd is the dm can look at any rule he wants and say to hell with that and make his world his own and let his players be as creative as they want. The sign of a good dm is rolling with the punches his players throws at him no matter how wild crazy or off the wall they might be.
or you use it to replicate objects you have one of, but need more. Most shops will not have bombs available for the public to use, and some technologies might be lost to time due to whatever reason, see damaskus steel for an real world example
Damascus steel never really disappeared. The Indian Wootz crucible steel stopped being produced and sold in large part because the English developed their own large scale crucible steel industry (Sheffield steel) and marketed to the world. This is also the time when cap and ball firearms appear and the earliest major breach loading firearms and effective repeating firearms appeared. In addition the confusion between pattern welded and crucible steels was cleared up in the 90’s by Pendray and Verhoegan(sp?) with combined smithing and microscopic studies.
In one campaign my forge cleric adventured with a polearm master type fighter.
On day one we collected spoils for conversion into a mithril ingot (could really have chosen adamantium) and on the next day we found a magical sword. The DM agreed that a coupling could be crafted with the ingot to fix the sword to a pole and form a glaive. Magical benefits were permitted to remain while attacking with the pointy end but with the risk that any crit fail would result in the coupling breaking.
I later made a chain-link net that could be dropped from a bag of holding by the party imp.
The fabrication of objects to block entryways was also something we looked into which, perhaps might be done while others took a short rest.
I had my Forge Cleric turn the metal his cell into a breastplate, shield, and a weapon. Granted, he had to spend a few days at it, but imagine the shock on the guard's face when he came down to feed me one morning only to find an empty cell and a bunch of planks that used to be the door...
Also, the VALUE of the creation is debatable. For a handful of coins, I have enough gold to make a copy of that ring that was supposedly lost decades ago. I'm told that the standing reward for its return is pretty high...
Fighting Werewolves tomorrow? Sure...I can turn some silver coins into a nice silver edge on that sword...
Imagine the guards are seeking you out for some imagined crime (okay...it wasn't imagined...I really DID do it...). You spend a quiet hour reshaping the crest on your full-face visor to match the noble family hosting the joust. Best part of this one is that the VALUE of the helm is exactly the same so no real coins needed...just a rework of your existing helmet.
Hey, member of my party who just got drunk and entered a crossbow tournament tomorrow! Yeah...tell me how that crossbow works again? Uh huh...so if I were to make a duplicate cross arm, but weaker, it would really mess up the other guy's shots, right? Now, where was that Rogue? I need someone to swap crossbows out with nobody noticing...
It's one of those abilities that you need to be creative with.
Fighting Werewolves tomorrow? Sure...I can turn some silver coins into a nice silver edge on that sword...
Sadly, silvering a weapon is not possible with Artisan's Blessing RAW. Silvering an object costs 100 GP, so creating a sword that is silvered would be beyond the limit of the ability since the total cost would be greater than 100GP
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The thing you create can be something that is worth no more than 100 gp. As part of this ritual, you must lay out metal, which can include coins, with a value equal to the creation. The metal irretrievably coalesces and transforms into the creation at the ritual’s end, magically forming even nonmetal parts of the creation.
If you are using a weapon you already own and are just using 100 gp worth of metal to silver coat the weapon you already own (which would cost 100 gp).......The success or failure of Channeling Divinity is in the hands of the God (also known as the Game Master)
Seriously though, check with your DM. You have the weapon, you have the metal of value needed. you could travel to a town, i am assuming, and get it done anyway. Forge domain is awesome this way and as long as its not game breaking, you have to ask, "does not seem unreasonable."
Its not like you are arguing Heavy Armor plate is 1500 gp and is technically more than 15 pieces so you should be able to make a set over the course of a weak and then put it all together.....thats CRAZY TALK
The thing you create can be something that is worth no more than 100 gp. As part of this ritual, you must lay out metal, which can include coins, with a value equal to the creation. The metal irretrievably coalesces and transforms into the creation at the ritual’s end, magically forming even nonmetal parts of the creation.
If you are using a weapon you already own and are just using 100 gp worth of metal to silver coat the weapon you already own (which would cost 100 gp).......The success or failure of Channeling Divinity is in the hands of the God (also known as the Game Master)
Seriously though, check with your DM. You have the weapon, you have the metal of value needed. you could travel to a town, i am assuming, and get it done anyway. Forge domain is awesome this way and as long as its not game breaking, you have to ask, "does not seem unreasonable."
Its not like you are arguing Heavy Armor plate is 1500 gp and is technically more than 15 pieces so you should be able to make a set over the course of a weak and then put it all together.....thats CRAZY TALK
Oh yeah, as a DM I would totally allow it. I am just not sure you can RAW
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How much would a small tank of molten silver cost? You could then pour/dip your weapon into the tank to silver it? And use your proficiency in smiths tools to put that edge back on it!
Per RAW in 5e, silvering a weapon costs 100 GP. Everything beyond that would come down to DM ruling if they would allow someone to try and craft it themselves to bring down the cost. Even then, in your example, we are talking about introducing crafting rules and not using Blessing of the Forge for the entire process
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The thing you create can be something that is worth no more than 100 gp. As part of this ritual, you must lay out metal, which can include coins, with a value equal to the creation. The metal irretrievably coalesces and transforms into the creation at the ritual’s end, magically forming even nonmetal parts of the creation.
If you are using a weapon you already own and are just using 100 gp worth of metal to silver coat the weapon you already own (which would cost 100 gp).......The success or failure of Channeling Divinity is in the hands of the God (also known as the Game Master)
Seriously though, check with your DM. You have the weapon, you have the metal of value needed. you could travel to a town, i am assuming, and get it done anyway. Forge domain is awesome this way and as long as its not game breaking, you have to ask, "does not seem unreasonable."
Its not like you are arguing Heavy Armor plate is 1500 gp and is technically more than 15 pieces so you should be able to make a set over the course of a weak and then put it all together.....thats CRAZY TALK
It's intrinsically DM fiat to make anything that has no cost in the PHB, including things like a helmet or a single armored boot.
The thing you create can be something that is worth no more than 100 gp. As part of this ritual, you must lay out metal, which can include coins, with a value equal to the creation. The metal irretrievably coalesces and transforms into the creation at the ritual’s end, magically forming even nonmetal parts of the creation.
If you are using a weapon you already own and are just using 100 gp worth of metal to silver coat the weapon you already own (which would cost 100 gp).......The success or failure of Channeling Divinity is in the hands of the God (also known as the Game Master)
Seriously though, check with your DM. You have the weapon, you have the metal of value needed. you could travel to a town, i am assuming, and get it done anyway. Forge domain is awesome this way and as long as its not game breaking, you have to ask, "does not seem unreasonable."
Its not like you are arguing Heavy Armor plate is 1500 gp and is technically more than 15 pieces so you should be able to make a set over the course of a weak and then put it all together.....thats CRAZY TALK
It's intrinsically DM fiat to make anything that has no cost in the PHB, including things like a helmet or a single armored boot.
Technically, that's true of everything. The DM, "interprets the rules and decides when to abide by them and when to change them" (DMG 4). I just happen to also think it's a disingenuous answer, under the circumstances (no offense). What does the wording of the feature (XGE 19; emphasis mine) say?
Channel Divinity: Artisan's Blessing
Starting at 2nd level, you can use your Channel Divinity to create simple items.
You conduct an hour-long ritual that crafts a nonmagical item that must include some metal: a simple or martial weapon, a suit of armor, ten pieces of ammunition, a set of tools, or another metal object (see chapter 5, “Equipment,” in the Player’s Handbook for examples of these items). The creation is completed at the end of the hour, coalescing in an unoccupied space of your choice on a surface within 5 feet of you.
The thing you create can be something that is worth no more than 100 gp. As part of this ritual, you must lay out metal, which can include coins, with a value equal to the creation. The metal irretrievably coalesces and transforms into the creation at the ritual’s end, magically forming even nonmetal parts of the creation.
The ritual can create a duplicate of a nonmagical item that contains metal, such as a key, if you possess the original during the ritual.
The feature doesn't make an exception for a piece of armor, and "another metal object" is clearly intended to be something already found in the PHB.
So it can make any "metal" armor a character can start with; scale mail, chain mail, even an Artificer's studded leather. It can make a lantern or magnifying glass. It can make a barrel with metal bands or a chest for quick storage. And it can make any mundane weapon, if you can shoehorn metal into its construction.
But it cannot make a suit of expensive armor by piecemeal.
P.S.
But this is where it gets interesting. Silvering 20 pieces of ammunition requires 100 gp, but the feature can only produce 10 pieces of ammunition at a time. It is possible to produce 10 silvered ammunition with this feature.
Poor quality daggers and shortswords can't be turned into chain mail. Bad gear can't be turned into better gear. The Channel Divinity requires that you lay out metal equal to the value of the object that you create.
And the 100gp limit isn't fluid. It's very rigid RAW.
Of course, a DM can ignore RAW and make house rules that override the RAW, but of course the DM could choose to give you the benefits of the Forge Cleric's level 17 ability at level 1. DMs can do whatever they want. But if you're suggesting that the way to "fix" a Cleric ability is to make it far more powerful than it is according to RAW, then you're entering very dangerous territory. DMs need to be extremely careful about making PCs much more powerful than they should be according to RAW.
"Poor quality" isn't defined anywhere in the rules. Yes, there is the general rule for arms, armor, and other equipment, but that doesn't mean anything recovered is intrinsically intrinsically worthless. If a player character steals a goblin's scimitar, is it too crappy to cast green-flame blade? What about a hobgoblin's longsword? An orc's greataxe?
If something has a value that is undefined, then the DM assigns it a value. This is the RAW.
Basic Rules, page 45:
"Arms, Armor, and Other Equipment. As a general rule, undamaged weapons, armor, and other equipment fetch half their cost when sold in a market. Weapons and armor used by monsters are rarely in good enough condition to sell."
Dude, you're not going to one-up me by quoting the section of the rules I just invoked. The DM assigns the value of what has been looted. End of discussion.
If it's not in good enough condition to sell, then how is it not worthless?
How much clearer do they need to spell things out for you?
I specifically cited the hobgoblin and orc as examples of creatures who actually care about their weapons. You can go and read their entries in the Monster Manual, if you don't believe me.
In any case, "usually" does not mean always. And whether something is junk or not is up to the DM to decide. Anything without a prescribed value means the DM assigns one. You don't have to like it, but that's the honest to goodness truth.
thinking about this ability from a narrative perspective, i find it hard to believe that the limitations placed on Artisan's Blessing have anything to do with market forces. Most adventurers would gladly buy equipment that is rather "well worn" for 90- 100% of the market value as long as it still has the same mechanical effects. Conversely in some isolated and peaceful halfling community any weapons whatsoever might be entirely worthless since nobody around those parts uses them and very few people who do need weapons arrive at the town. The value of an object is entirely arbitrary.
It does not matter that a greataxe has a few dents in it. When you are using sacred energies to transmute it into something else, said greataxe will be just as useful for making new things as it was back when it was first made. Yours is the god of forges, not the god of merchants.
then again it could also be an sacrificial offering type deal, it's like asking "in dnd, are gemstones so valuable becuase we can use them as component for Resurrection spells or do Resurrection spells use gemstones as components because humans find them valiuable, thus making them a worthy sacrifice"
there is a big distinction between "not good enough to sell" and "worthless". The dead orc you took said greataxe from certainly did not think that his weapon was worthless, even if it is too dirty, too rusty and to beaten up to sell to any self-respecting merchant in a town where we can produce higher-quality weapons, becuase it is something he or she can use to decapitate innocent civilians and cause havoc during raids of other settlements. If you could choose between that greataxe and using your fists, most people would probably prefer using it. If you find some settlement with a woefully under equipped town guard or some aspiring fighter so dirt-poor that they cannot afford a proper greataxe from a proper blacksmith, they might buy that axe just fine for perhaps 1-2 sp or more depending on how desperate they are.
also does not change the fact that as the guy above said multiple times, the dm decides the value of an object and can put the price of an given item willy-nilly. If they DM says 1000 gp for a random dagger, that's the price. If the dm says 1 copper piece for a greatsword, that's the price.
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
If you can't sell it, it doesn't have value. That's how its value is determined.
D&D 5e isn't meant to be like some video game where you can loot gear off every enemy you kill and sell it all to a merchant in town for money. Of course the DM can choose to make it that way, but that's not how it's supposed to be according to the rules as written.
If your DM wants to do it that way, it's your DM's right to do that. If you want to change the rules to make the Forge Cleric more powerful, it's the DM's right to do that. But you need to be very careful when changing the rules to make a PC more powerful, especially when it's something like a Forge Cleric that really doesn't need a DM to make houserules to make it more powerful.
All of this is true, except that nobody is changing the rules. Anything which doesn't have an explicit value is left for the DM to determine. This has always been the case. "Usually" weapons and armor carried by "monsters" isn't worth anything. But what constitutes a monster? Is it anything, and everything, found in the Monster Manual? And, if so, what are the exceptions? Which weapons and armor could be considered to have monetary value? Off the top of my head?
Every possible item that can be found is a specific example that may run counter to a general rule. Because specific always beats general.
Never was it my intention to cause an argument at this level. I was trying to be positive about an ability some people claimed was worthless. So it takes ten short swords for the DM to let me make a longsword, or five longswords to make my barbarian a great axe. Maybe 20 studded leather armors to make chainmail. All I was trying to point out is you are limited to your imagination and 2nd level characters could end up with better gear scavenging well and the DM being kind. Would be a fun way to start the Forge domain. Later using the optional rules, letting trade the divinity for a spell slot is a great option too for later on. It was not my intent to disgrace RAW or the DM judgement. I was just trying to point out a potential positive. Like I said, it is easy to point out everything wrong with every idea, but to take an idea and try to make it better is a talent that can be cultivated. Sorry for the drama.
And I absolutely love that loud mouth club thing i keep seeing. Being un-offendable is a great attribute i wish more people had. awesome.
Just because a weapon cant be sold as a weapon doesn't mean it has no value. All materials have value those items are made of something and that quantity of something has to therefore have a value. Sure its a broken sword that i cant sell as a sword but its made of metal i can melt that metal down and make it into a chunk of metal that has to have some form of value. sure demand for scrap metal may be low but it has value and that value is set by the dm. In my campaign we were in the middle of a dungeon that had a forge in a broken down destitute forge that had a bunch of broken hammer heads in it from all the smithing tools. i collected all those heads up so i could have a bunch of raw material specifically for the artisans blessing. Later in the dungeon when the green dragon took my characters keg of ale (skyhand has a drinking problem) after the dragon had fled from the buttkicking he had received that night skyhand used artisans blessing to make himself a brand new full keg of ale. Artisans blessing like so many of the other non combat abilities of dnd has few limits to what can be done with it in the hands of a player and character with a sufficient imagination and out of the box thinking. gabrielrockman Just because you want to be a rules lawyer with no creative imagination that wants to stifle players abilities to play dnd as the open world imaginative game it is doesnt mean every other dm in existence feels the same. One of the best things about dnd is the dm can look at any rule he wants and say to hell with that and make his world his own and let his players be as creative as they want. The sign of a good dm is rolling with the punches his players throws at him no matter how wild crazy or off the wall they might be.
Damascus steel never really disappeared. The Indian Wootz crucible steel stopped being produced and sold in large part because the English developed their own large scale crucible steel industry (Sheffield steel) and marketed to the world. This is also the time when cap and ball firearms appear and the earliest major breach loading firearms and effective repeating firearms appeared. In addition the confusion between pattern welded and crucible steels was cleared up in the 90’s by Pendray and Verhoegan(sp?) with combined smithing and microscopic studies.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
In one campaign my forge cleric adventured with a polearm master type fighter.
On day one we collected spoils for conversion into a mithril ingot (could really have chosen adamantium) and on the next day we found a magical sword. The DM agreed that a coupling could be crafted with the ingot to fix the sword to a pole and form a glaive. Magical benefits were permitted to remain while attacking with the pointy end but with the risk that any crit fail would result in the coupling breaking.
I later made a chain-link net that could be dropped from a bag of holding by the party imp.
The fabrication of objects to block entryways was also something we looked into which, perhaps might be done while others took a short rest.
I had my Forge Cleric turn the metal his cell into a breastplate, shield, and a weapon. Granted, he had to spend a few days at it, but imagine the shock on the guard's face when he came down to feed me one morning only to find an empty cell and a bunch of planks that used to be the door...
Also, the VALUE of the creation is debatable. For a handful of coins, I have enough gold to make a copy of that ring that was supposedly lost decades ago. I'm told that the standing reward for its return is pretty high...
Fighting Werewolves tomorrow? Sure...I can turn some silver coins into a nice silver edge on that sword...
Imagine the guards are seeking you out for some imagined crime (okay...it wasn't imagined...I really DID do it...). You spend a quiet hour reshaping the crest on your full-face visor to match the noble family hosting the joust. Best part of this one is that the VALUE of the helm is exactly the same so no real coins needed...just a rework of your existing helmet.
Hey, member of my party who just got drunk and entered a crossbow tournament tomorrow! Yeah...tell me how that crossbow works again? Uh huh...so if I were to make a duplicate cross arm, but weaker, it would really mess up the other guy's shots, right? Now, where was that Rogue? I need someone to swap crossbows out with nobody noticing...
It's one of those abilities that you need to be creative with.
Sadly, silvering a weapon is not possible with Artisan's Blessing RAW. Silvering an object costs 100 GP, so creating a sword that is silvered would be beyond the limit of the ability since the total cost would be greater than 100GP
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The thing you create can be something that is worth no more than 100 gp. As part of this ritual, you must lay out metal, which can include coins, with a value equal to the creation. The metal irretrievably coalesces and transforms into the creation at the ritual’s end, magically forming even nonmetal parts of the creation.
If you are using a weapon you already own and are just using 100 gp worth of metal to silver coat the weapon you already own (which would cost 100 gp).......The success or failure of Channeling Divinity is in the hands of the God (also known as the Game Master)
Seriously though, check with your DM. You have the weapon, you have the metal of value needed. you could travel to a town, i am assuming, and get it done anyway. Forge domain is awesome this way and as long as its not game breaking, you have to ask, "does not seem unreasonable."
Its not like you are arguing Heavy Armor plate is 1500 gp and is technically more than 15 pieces so you should be able to make a set over the course of a weak and then put it all together.....thats CRAZY TALK
Oh yeah, as a DM I would totally allow it. I am just not sure you can RAW
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Per RAW in 5e, silvering a weapon costs 100 GP. Everything beyond that would come down to DM ruling if they would allow someone to try and craft it themselves to bring down the cost. Even then, in your example, we are talking about introducing crafting rules and not using Blessing of the Forge for the entire process
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It's intrinsically DM fiat to make anything that has no cost in the PHB, including things like a helmet or a single armored boot.
Technically, that's true of everything. The DM, "interprets the rules and decides when to abide by them and when to change them" (DMG 4). I just happen to also think it's a disingenuous answer, under the circumstances (no offense). What does the wording of the feature (XGE 19; emphasis mine) say?
The feature doesn't make an exception for a piece of armor, and "another metal object" is clearly intended to be something already found in the PHB.
So it can make any "metal" armor a character can start with; scale mail, chain mail, even an Artificer's studded leather. It can make a lantern or magnifying glass. It can make a barrel with metal bands or a chest for quick storage. And it can make any mundane weapon, if you can shoehorn metal into its construction.
But it cannot make a suit of expensive armor by piecemeal.
P.S.
But this is where it gets interesting. Silvering 20 pieces of ammunition requires 100 gp, but the feature can only produce 10 pieces of ammunition at a time. It is possible to produce 10 silvered ammunition with this feature.