Healing Spirit isn't a spell that restores hit points in the same way that Conjure Animals isn't a spell attack. Healing Spirit (the spell) does not restore hit points, it summons a spirit with the ability to restore hit points.
Taking on Stary Form is a Bonus Action and using Archer on subsequent turns is a bonus action, but is getting the extra healing HP, using Chalice on subsequent turns a bonus action? Also, is benefiting from the Dragon form on subsequent turns a bonus action? Or are those just things that happen automatically, when a Circle of the Stars Druid casts a slotted spell that restores hit points, while Chalice is activated or makes an INT or WIS check or a CON saving throw, to maintain concentration, while in Dragon form?
(I think re: Chalice and Dragon form, on subsequent turns, they are just things that happen automatically and don't use a bonus action.)
The chalice form healing occurs “whenever you cast a spell, ” so no it isn’t a bonus action. The Dragon form benefits occur whenever you make one of the checks or saves listed in the ability, and again since the ability doesn’t say any of these things require a bonus action then they don’t. As you said, the only bonus actions mentioned in Starry form are the ones to activate the Starry Form Ability itself and the use of the Archer attack on subsequent turns.
So Chalice works with Cure Wounds, Healing Word (even though it is a Bonus Action), Mass Cure Wounds Heal and Regenerate (only on the turn that you cast it); won't work with GoodBerry or Healing Spirit (even on the turn that you cast it??)?
Which spells work with the feature depends on your DM and how they interpret the condition. It may mean that the spell must heal when you cast it (my preferred interpretation), or your DM may allow the benefit on spells that you cast that heal later, such as healing spirit.
Healing Spirit isn't a spell that restores hit points in the same way that Conjure Animals isn't a spell attack. Healing Spirit (the spell) does not restore hit points, it summons a spirit with the ability to restore hit points.
The spirit is a part of the spell, therefore the spell does restore hit points. The text of the spell details how much HP is restored. Certainly the working is ambiguous enough that if a DM wanted to rule it your way, they could. But in my mind, the easiest way to adjudicate this is to read the spell, and if it talks about restoring X hit points in some manner, then it's a "spell that restores hit points". So yes to healing spirit and goodberry. And no to using fabricate to make an alchemy kit which could potentially be used to make healing potions which restore hit points.
Trying to split hairs that way you're arguing for seems unnecessarily pedantic. It's like saying fireball isn't a spell that deals damage because what it really does is summon a ball of fire that explodes and the ball of fire does damage.
I'm not sure if you've understood but I'd like to elaborate as I've had to figure this out for my starts druid too.
The question is:
1. Does chalice healing apply every time healing spirit heals a creature; or
2. Does chalice healing apply 1 time only, at the point when the healing spirit spell is first cast?
I interpret the wording for chalice to be the latter. This isn't that much more powerful than the healing spirit spell without the chalice feature ad only 1 additional heal is given.
Equally, I would say that casting goodberry would allow the stars druid to use chalice healing 1 time in the moment the spell is cast. Each goodberry would not individually trigger chalice because that would be too broken for a level 2 feature.
To the OP. The wording clearly states that the effect triggers when the spell is cast and not "when healing is applied" so it's the spending of the spell slot on a spell that can heal that is the trigger.
The correct answer is neither 1 nor 2. But 2 is closer.
The ability activates when you cast a spell that heals. So it activates when you cast a spell, and that spell must have healed someone (so most logically, when you cast it). It is a stretch to say that you have cast a spell that has healed if it hasn't healed. If it some time later and not when you cast, it doesn't activate; if the spell hasn't healed (yet), it doesn't activate. The only conclusion that one can make is that it only activates when you cast a spell and that spell heals immediately.
No spell can heal someone when you cast it, all spell effects happen after a spell is cast even if they happen on the same turn. If the chalice required the spell to actually heal someone on the turn it was cast it would say so.
You've solved it. The feature doesn't work at all.
If the healing were allowed to be any time, then the spell would say that, wouldn't it? See, that argument goes both ways. The problem is that your ruling allows the healing to be an arbitrary consequence of the spell any number of turns down the road, and doesn't allow the word "when" to carry any weight at all.
Trying to split hairs that way you're arguing for seems unnecessarily pedantic. It's like saying fireball isn't a spell that deals damage because what it really does is summon a ball of fire that explodes and the ball of fire does damage.
Except that it's nothing like that. Namely because it's correct, and the example you gave is not. Nobody's saying that healing spirit isn't a healing spell - they're saying that it doesn't qualify because it doesn't restore hit point at the same time it's cast. That's the entire point of the argument, and unless there are other, completely separate rules that also affects this one way or the other and that nobody has remembered or bothered to mention, I'm also inclined to believe that healing spirit cannot gain the benefits of the Chalice.
To summarize, a spell only activates the bonus heal from Chalice if (1) it is cast with a spell slot and (2) it immediately (so on your turn, as soon as it's cast) heals a target. The feature says "Whenever you cast a spell... that restores hit points to a creature,...." This means that it only happens when you cast the spell, and only if it immediately heals a creature.
It may seem unnecessarily pedantic, but the rules are written the way they are for a reason.
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Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
No spell can heal someone when you cast it, all spell effects happen after a spell is cast even if they happen on the same turn. If the chalice required the spell to actually heal someone on the turn it was cast it would say so.
All spells are cast via the [Tooltip Not Found] action, so any effects that occur immediately during that action are still a part of casting it.
Effects like the Chalice Form bonus are limited to the action during which the spell is cast, if they could occur in later turns they'd say so.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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The correct answer is neither 1 nor 2. But 2 is closer.
The ability activates when you cast a spell that heals. So it activates when you cast a spell, and that spell must have healed someone (so most logically, when you cast it). It is a stretch to say that you have cast a spell that has healed if it hasn't healed. If it some time later and not when you cast, it doesn't activate; if the spell hasn't healed (yet), it doesn't activate. The only conclusion that one can make is that it only activates when you cast a spell and that spell heals immediately.
No?
If the feature specified instantaneous healing spells it would say so. It activates upon the casting of a spell that heals. Healing Spirit is, believe it or not, a spell that heals.
Besides the way your saying is that it needs to heal to use the feature, which isn't true - if you cast Cure Wounds on a creature with full HP you would still be able to use the feature to heal a creature in 30ft despite not actually healing with the spell (Why would you do this? Because you can't reach the creature you want to heal, despite them being in 30ft - you are restrained, difficult terrain, used your movement just to get this close etc)
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Healing Spirit isn't a spell that restores hit points in the same way that Conjure Animals isn't a spell attack. Healing Spirit (the spell) does not restore hit points, it summons a spirit with the ability to restore hit points.
Taking on Stary Form is a Bonus Action and using Archer on subsequent turns is a bonus action, but is getting the extra healing HP, using Chalice on subsequent turns a bonus action? Also, is benefiting from the Dragon form on subsequent turns a bonus action? Or are those just things that happen automatically, when a Circle of the Stars Druid casts a slotted spell that restores hit points, while Chalice is activated or makes an INT or WIS check or a CON saving throw, to maintain concentration, while in Dragon form?
(I think re: Chalice and Dragon form, on subsequent turns, they are just things that happen automatically and don't use a bonus action.)
The chalice form healing occurs “whenever you cast a spell, ” so no it isn’t a bonus action. The Dragon form benefits occur whenever you make one of the checks or saves listed in the ability, and again since the ability doesn’t say any of these things require a bonus action then they don’t. As you said, the only bonus actions mentioned in Starry form are the ones to activate the Starry Form Ability itself and the use of the Archer attack on subsequent turns.
So Chalice works with Cure Wounds, Healing Word (even though it is a Bonus Action), Mass Cure Wounds Heal and Regenerate (only on the turn that you cast it); won't work with GoodBerry or Healing Spirit (even on the turn that you cast it??)?
Which spells work with the feature depends on your DM and how they interpret the condition. It may mean that the spell must heal when you cast it (my preferred interpretation), or your DM may allow the benefit on spells that you cast that heal later, such as healing spirit.
The spirit is a part of the spell, therefore the spell does restore hit points. The text of the spell details how much HP is restored. Certainly the working is ambiguous enough that if a DM wanted to rule it your way, they could. But in my mind, the easiest way to adjudicate this is to read the spell, and if it talks about restoring X hit points in some manner, then it's a "spell that restores hit points". So yes to healing spirit and goodberry. And no to using fabricate to make an alchemy kit which could potentially be used to make healing potions which restore hit points.
Trying to split hairs that way you're arguing for seems unnecessarily pedantic. It's like saying fireball isn't a spell that deals damage because what it really does is summon a ball of fire that explodes and the ball of fire does damage.
I'm not sure if you've understood but I'd like to elaborate as I've had to figure this out for my starts druid too.
The question is:
1. Does chalice healing apply every time healing spirit heals a creature; or
2. Does chalice healing apply 1 time only, at the point when the healing spirit spell is first cast?
I interpret the wording for chalice to be the latter. This isn't that much more powerful than the healing spirit spell without the chalice feature ad only 1 additional heal is given.
Equally, I would say that casting goodberry would allow the stars druid to use chalice healing 1 time in the moment the spell is cast. Each goodberry would not individually trigger chalice because that would be too broken for a level 2 feature.
To the OP. The wording clearly states that the effect triggers when the spell is cast and not "when healing is applied" so it's the spending of the spell slot on a spell that can heal that is the trigger.
The correct answer is neither 1 nor 2. But 2 is closer.
The ability activates when you cast a spell that heals. So it activates when you cast a spell, and that spell must have healed someone (so most logically, when you cast it). It is a stretch to say that you have cast a spell that has healed if it hasn't healed. If it some time later and not when you cast, it doesn't activate; if the spell hasn't healed (yet), it doesn't activate. The only conclusion that one can make is that it only activates when you cast a spell and that spell heals immediately.
No spell can heal someone when you cast it, all spell effects happen after a spell is cast even if they happen on the same turn. If the chalice required the spell to actually heal someone on the turn it was cast it would say so.
You've solved it. The feature doesn't work at all.
If the healing were allowed to be any time, then the spell would say that, wouldn't it? See, that argument goes both ways. The problem is that your ruling allows the healing to be an arbitrary consequence of the spell any number of turns down the road, and doesn't allow the word "when" to carry any weight at all.
Except that it's nothing like that. Namely because it's correct, and the example you gave is not. Nobody's saying that healing spirit isn't a healing spell - they're saying that it doesn't qualify because it doesn't restore hit point at the same time it's cast. That's the entire point of the argument, and unless there are other, completely separate rules that also affects this one way or the other and that nobody has remembered or bothered to mention, I'm also inclined to believe that healing spirit cannot gain the benefits of the Chalice.
To summarize, a spell only activates the bonus heal from Chalice if (1) it is cast with a spell slot and (2) it immediately (so on your turn, as soon as it's cast) heals a target. The feature says "Whenever you cast a spell... that restores hit points to a creature,...." This means that it only happens when you cast the spell, and only if it immediately heals a creature.
It may seem unnecessarily pedantic, but the rules are written the way they are for a reason.
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
All spells are cast via the [Tooltip Not Found] action, so any effects that occur immediately during that action are still a part of casting it.
Effects like the Chalice Form bonus are limited to the action during which the spell is cast, if they could occur in later turns they'd say so.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
No?
If the feature specified instantaneous healing spells it would say so. It activates upon the casting of a spell that heals. Healing Spirit is, believe it or not, a spell that heals.
Besides the way your saying is that it needs to heal to use the feature, which isn't true - if you cast Cure Wounds on a creature with full HP you would still be able to use the feature to heal a creature in 30ft despite not actually healing with the spell (Why would you do this? Because you can't reach the creature you want to heal, despite them being in 30ft - you are restrained, difficult terrain, used your movement just to get this close etc)