Ancient no as they have like 500+ HP and to do a lot of damage you have to rely on GWM/SS which against a high AC enemy like a dragon will be poor.
Also they can just fly away so melee builds are left holding the bag again as the casters and ranged martials are doing the heavy lifting.
The ancient was like a what if scenario as tbh there is probably a fighter build that could kill an ancient dragon (probably not a gold or red though but that remains to be seen). As with the flying sentinel is very good. Oops over sight hold person only does well people so let’s say the gold dragon is shapeshifted into a human I think it would be possible to “stun-lock” the ”dragon.”
Zealot Barb is the one I think you are talking about and yeah with the right build they are extremely hard to kill. You pretty much have to be able to incapacitate them so the rage ends. Sleep is the most common tactic but races that don't sleep or can't be put to sleep avoid that pretty quickly. Otherwise banishment would be the one way to do it.
Yeah Zealot Barb they can’t die from damage so yeah other ways must be implemented (like you said sleep, banishment, etc).
Moon Druid at level 20 too as they can just re-up wild shape means they can be crazy hard to kill if they just keep shifting back into a fire elemental.
You would have to use a PWK on them basically
The earth elemental has more than 100hp but in a battle a wizard could quicken a fire bolt then power word kill if needed but the wizard could do like anything else so yeah.
For the purpose of this build I will be assuming all sharpshooter attacks hit and the wizard fails his hold person save.
Equipment: Heavy Crossbow, and a big cheap item that is to be dropped for cover (Dropping objects don’t cost anything so it’s free!). Also as the battle starts he (before initiative has been rolled) is holding/wielding the object and material components for hold person.
Round One:
EK drops the obscuring item for covering the material components of hold person, he then casts Hold Person (Using subtle spell), after casting Hold Person* (See Asterisk to what would the EK do if the hold person fails), the EK pulls out his Heavy Crossbow and moves within 5ft of the wizard expending his action surge making 4 ranged attacks and a fifth due to Improved War Magic.
Each shot has piercer, sharpshooter and is a critical hit dealing per shot 3d10/16.95 (one dice can be rerolled averaging 5.95 while the other 2 d10’s average 5.5) + 5 damage (20 Dex Bonus) + 10 (Sharpshooter Bonus) for a total of 32 (31.95). Additionally, whenever he hits the wizard, the wizard is affected by Eldritch Strike so his next save against hold person is at disadvantage (and it’s probably poor as the wizard builds don’t use wisdom) so he probably fails giving the EK another turn.
Round Two:
EK uses action for 4 attacks, action surge 4 attacks, inflicting Eldritch Strike giving the wizard disadvantage on its next save for Hold Person (Also if you don’t wanna attack the Eldritch Knight has some spells that can help fight the wizard).
Round Three: If wizard fails again/isn’t dead the EK can attack 4 more times each still criting and giving the wizard disadvantage on it’s next save.
Round Four: Let’s assume the wizard saves at its end of turn that means the EK then gets 4-5 more attacks (although not with critting or with advantage and the wizard can then also cast shield or whatever as a reaction).
So let’s say the EK gets at least 13 of these critical attacks (discounting the extra as the wizard recovers at the end of his turn). That means he would deal 3d10/16.95 (one dice can be rerolled averaging 5.95 while the other 2 d10’s average 5.5) + 5 damage (20 Dex Bonus) + 10 (Sharpshooter Bonus) for a total of 31.95 per strike. That means it is 31.95 x 13 coming out to 415.35 damage.
*if the hold person fails the fighter then uses his improved war magic to make one attack (as a bonus action)—on a hit—the wizards next save is at disadvantage (and he deals an average of 31.95), then goes back behind the object and casts Hold Person again (expending his action surge to do so) using the same tactic then moves with 5ft of the wizard for next turn to try to burst down the wizard (assuming he fails the Hold Person).
EDIT: Miscalculated the damage as I applied the piercer’s reroll to every attack so the actual total damage is 410.4 damage so not a big difference but enough to be noted.
Ancient no as they have like 500+ HP and to do a lot of damage you have to rely on GWM/SS which against a high AC enemy like a dragon will be poor.
Also they can just fly away so melee builds are left holding the bag again as the casters and ranged martials are doing the heavy lifting.
The ancient was like a what if scenario as tbh there is probably a fighter build that could kill an ancient dragon (probably not a gold or red though but that remains to be seen). As with the flying sentinel is very good. Oops over sight hold person only does well people so let’s say the gold dragon is shapeshifted into a human I think it would be possible to “stun-lock” the ”dragon.”
Zealot Barb is the one I think you are talking about and yeah with the right build they are extremely hard to kill. You pretty much have to be able to incapacitate them so the rage ends. Sleep is the most common tactic but races that don't sleep or can't be put to sleep avoid that pretty quickly. Otherwise banishment would be the one way to do it.
Yeah Zealot Barb they can’t die from damage so yeah other ways must be implemented (like you said sleep, banishment, etc).
Moon Druid at level 20 too as they can just re-up wild shape means they can be crazy hard to kill if they just keep shifting back into a fire elemental.
You would have to use a PWK on them basically
The earth elemental has more than 100hp but in a battle a wizard could quicken a fire bolt then power word kill if needed but the wizard could do like anything else so yeah.
A wizard can't quicken spells... and even then, you would just kill the earth elemental. the druid would be very alive still, able to just wild shape right back into an earth/fire elemental.
Ancient no as they have like 500+ HP and to do a lot of damage you have to rely on GWM/SS which against a high AC enemy like a dragon will be poor.
Also they can just fly away so melee builds are left holding the bag again as the casters and ranged martials are doing the heavy lifting.
The ancient was like a what if scenario as tbh there is probably a fighter build that could kill an ancient dragon (probably not a gold or red though but that remains to be seen). As with the flying sentinel is very good. Oops over sight hold person only does well people so let’s say the gold dragon is shapeshifted into a human I think it would be possible to “stun-lock” the ”dragon.”
Zealot Barb is the one I think you are talking about and yeah with the right build they are extremely hard to kill. You pretty much have to be able to incapacitate them so the rage ends. Sleep is the most common tactic but races that don't sleep or can't be put to sleep avoid that pretty quickly. Otherwise banishment would be the one way to do it.
Yeah Zealot Barb they can’t die from damage so yeah other ways must be implemented (like you said sleep, banishment, etc).
Moon Druid at level 20 too as they can just re-up wild shape means they can be crazy hard to kill if they just keep shifting back into a fire elemental.
You would have to use a PWK on them basically
The earth elemental has more than 100hp but in a battle a wizard could quicken a fire bolt then power word kill if needed but the wizard could do like anything else so yeah.
A wizard can't quicken spells... and even then, you would just kill the earth elemental. the druid would be very alive still, able to just wild shape right back into an earth/fire elemental.
I don't really buy this dropping cover strategy De4th. First, dropping an item is not the same thing as setting something down solidly on the ground. This cover could be dropped funny at an angle and just tip over. Second, if the item is giving the fighter cover from the wizard, then the wizard should also have cover from the fighter and thus not be targetable. Overall, it seems like a strategy that relies on too much DM fiat to be white room material.
13 crits is way too many to just assume happen. If you get the hold person that is 4 auto crit attacks with action surge that turn. Assuming the wizard saves at the end of their turn (Dread makes this save regularly despite Eldritch Strike as he normally has advantage) then he is no longer paralyzed and any more attacks will not be auto-crits. If the Wizard does fail then the fighter can action surge a second time for 8 more auto-crits and a total of 12. If the wizard did pass their save, the EK can choose to try the lock again (very risky against Dread's advantage) and use their second action surge for 4 more auto-crits. So, assuming a lot of luck (Dread has +1 wisdom, proficiency, advantage, and Lucky) the EK can pull off up to 12 auto crits, maybe 8, before Dread can do anything, but it's much, much more likely that they are limited to 4 auto crits.
You're also continuing to assume everything hits, which just isn't a thing and something I only ever brought up to prove just how tanky Dread was against the Arcane Archer shenanigans. I'm kind of regretting doing that now because all of your calculations are based on everything hitting which is very inaccurate. Even with the wizard paralyzed the EK has a chance to miss and that should be factored into your numbers.
I don't really buy this dropping cover strategy De4th. First, dropping an item is not the same thing as setting something down solidly on the ground. This cover could be dropped funny at an angle and just tip over. Second, if the item is giving the fighter cover from the wizard, then the wizard should also have cover from the fighter and thus not be targetable. Overall, it seems like a strategy that relies on too much DM fiat to be white room material.
As with the solidly landing on the ground... you know the object could be a 5ft by 5ft (Or whatever) cube wrapped in opaque material and my character be 5ft 6’ and just see over the cube but the wizard can only see his head and therefore not see my EK holding the material components. As for the second reason... you know you don’t need total cover for this strategy only cover for the material components to be obscured (like you could use a blanket draped over the front of use obscuring your hand by not your eyes. As for the “DM fiat” not really all it is, is per say a large crate, blanket, cape, or otherwise (as there are MANY objects) to fulfil such a task. As with the cover from the wizards gets that doesn’t matter as the EK is just casting a spell.
13 crits is way too many to just assume happen. If you get the hold person that is 4 auto crit attacks with action surge that turn. Assuming the wizard saves at the end of their turn (Dread makes this save regularly despite Eldritch Strike as he normally has advantage) then he is no longer paralyzed and any more attacks will not be auto-crits. If the Wizard does fail then the fighter can action surge a second time for 8 more auto-crits and a total of 12. If the wizard did pass their save, the EK can choose to try the lock again (very risky against Dread's advantage) and use their second action surge for 4 more auto-crits. So, assuming a lot of luck (Dread has +1 wisdom, proficiency, advantage, and Lucky) the EK can pull off up to 12 auto crits, maybe 8, before Dread can do anything, but it's much, much more likely that they are limited to 4 auto crits.
On the first turn say the first hold person happens the EK gets 5 attacks: Four from Action Surge and 1 from Improved War Magic. As for the success on the first hold person (if you look at the Asterisk on the build) he would just cast hold person again after attacking with improved war magic so it is reasonably probable that the wizard fails especially against two hold persons with a Eldritch Strike in between (cancelling your advantage). And if the wizard breaks from the second hold person on their turn you can repeat though that time will be a little harder as the wizard can Counterspell your first hold so you would get one more chance after that the EK is lost.
You’re also continuing to assume everything hits, which just isn't a thing and something I only ever brought up to prove just how tanky Dread was against the Arcane Archer shenanigans. I'm kind of regretting doing that now because all of your calculations are based on everything hitting which is very inaccurate. Even with the wizard paralyzed the EK has a chance to miss and that should be factored into your numbers.
It hard not to assume hits when you have ether advantage with a +11 to hit or triple advantage (Elven Accuracy) with a +8 to hit. Although even if many where to miss the damage out put is high enough where missing say 4 shot/attacks (which is very unlikely in the ranged build) would still mean the wizard would be dead as the damage is quite high.
But the EK builds are entirely out done by a Satyr (OP) Chronurgy Wizard as being Satyr means the wizard is Fey therefore non-humaniod (unaffected by Hold PERSON and Advantage against Magic) but tbh for the sake of this thread I think that a Satyr on any side is quite OP but almost unstoppable on a wizard (in most cases).
Do tell if I didn’t address something or not address something clearly enough.
I already said this but a Satyr counters the EK hard (along with like ALL others). Then being a Chronurgist adds on even more as the Satyr Chronurgist can be build to be anything (practically) from a Tank (see say Dread), high initiative, or whatever else.
But tbh I feel like if the Satyr race is ignored and instead focus on other build that aren’t JUST I choose X race and therefore OP (like how many people ban Yuan-ti, Aarakocra, UA war forged, Satyr and more! Haha).
I don't know how to do the re-roll for the damage but I am assuming it will add about 5 points of damage on average? Not sure how to incorporate that.
However if you can get ADV you could do about 243 damage. If you assume auto-crit then your numbers would be close in line but seems like a hold person would be a long shot as the wizard could just counterspell and would have more than enough slots to still finish the fight.
However if the stars aligned they could do it but I would put the probability fairly low.
De4th this is the calculator Optimus and I have been using. It's awesome. Fool around with it some time. It's super easy to input the numbers you need and it even calculates a separate DPR for sharpshooter and GWM in the -5/+10 portion of the chart.
De4th this is the calculator Optimus and I have been using. It's awesome. Fool around with it some time. It's super easy to input the numbers you need and it even calculates a separate DPR for sharpshooter and GWM in the -5/+10 portion of the chart.
De4th this is the calculator Optimus and I have been using. It's awesome. Fool around with it some time. It's super easy to input the numbers you need and it even calculates a separate DPR for sharpshooter and GWM in the -5/+10 portion of the chart.
Ahh yes Thanks you (and to you Optimus) it seems quite interesting I’ll check it out.
Yeah Optimus, thanks for showing it... a while back at this point. Never knew about it until recently thanks to you. Very cool stuff and it's super easy to use.
Yeah Optimus, thanks for showing it... a while back at this point. Never knew about it until recently thanks to you. Very cool stuff and it's super easy to use.
Now that we’ve gone this far where do we go because since the introduction of Satyr the wizard can like just win 99.9% of the time (and I know I said we can just ignore the Satyr but can we?... should we?). But then this leads into the argument of if this forum is level 20 Fighter vs Level 20 Wizard should races (and their features) be included? it should we just debate the merits and capabilities of ether class at their peak?
So yeah... there is plenty of ways to discuss in this topic especially concerning it’s semantics.
I find find it pretty funny whenever I do a post (Like #501) where it just (in a way) kills the posts afterward and then I have to do some amazing necromancy returning it to life (like I hopefully will now do... again).
As right now the BIGGEST obstacle to the fighter is a Satyr Chronurgist Tank Wizard: Satyr = No Hold Person, Chronurgist = No AAA build, and Tank = Not much of any other NOVA builds can get past like 200 hp and a high AC.
And this got me thinking (As I don’t think there is any build that can get the amount of damage needed to outright kill a wizard in one round) what else can the fighter do to prolong a fight that wasn’t something that a DM might have to rule over (like lasso, rope, gag, “grapple techniques?”, stopping certain spell components ie materials etc) and that brought me back to the EK and spells that would be able to prolong a fight (as the other options as you said may require some DM fiat... even if I don’t like it it’s is RAW I guess).
So my search as to what the EK could do led me to the conditions as he could potentially afflict to the wizard and prolong the fight (give the fighter the turns he needs). And that condition was the Incapacitated condition or other conditions that gave it like paralyzed, stunned, unconscious and petrified.
Buuuttt there was a problem with that as an EK only has access to cantrip-4th level spells so limiting the spells he could acquire as such the only paralyzing spell available is Hold Person that doesn’t work, no stunning or petrifying spells, and one unconscious inflicting spell of which is sleep but it is way too weak and therefore unneeded as even upcasted to level four sleep only averages 49.5 hp so it isn’t that great (though perhaps it could be used with the cover strategy and used for “damage” but I doubt it).
But then you say why did I make this unnecessarily large post was it for nothing (ahh yes... over dramatization). THERE IS ONE SPELL (that may or may not work against the Satyr) and that spell is... Hideous Laughter that just gives the target CREATURE the Incapacitated condition (along with prone but whatever). As such that means it is possible to stop the wizard from getting a turn and possibly (though SUPER unlikely give the fighter an extra turn).
So in conclusion and EK fighter can technically stop a wizards turn and attempt to perhaps just maybe get close to inch by a wizards hp pool.
But then again (though I doubt it) there may be a build out there that can (normally-as in one turn) get past the hp of a wizard in one turn. Although that Nova build has yet to be seen if it even exists as it is very hard to get to such a height of damage on average numbers alone.
PS: Morale of the story a well built wizard can practically defeat anything and anyone ever...
There is no way Fighter wins this. People keep mentioning fighter builds and subclasses. Wizard takes Divination subclass, portents the fighter to go second with one of its three dice, then uses any combination of spells to end the battle. (Polymorph/PWK, Forcecage/sickening radiance), or at least teleport far enough away to where the fighter will not be able to reach her, so that she can prepare other challenges (simulacrum herself, simulacrum summons other beasts, etc.). Like if it is a Divination wizard with any initiative boosting feat or item, fighter loses 95% of the time. (And that is being generous)
There is no way Fighter wins this. People keep mentioning fighter builds and subclasses. Wizard takes Divination subclass, portents the fighter to go second with one of its three dice, then uses any combination of spells to end the battle. (Polymorph/PWK, Forcecage/sickening radiance), or at least teleport far enough away to where the fighter will not be able to reach her, so that she can prepare other challenges (simulacrum herself, simulacrum summons other beasts, etc.). Like if it is a Divination wizard with any initiative boosting feat or item, fighter loses 95% of the time. (And that is being generous)
I triple dog dare you to win initiative against a fighter with alert, scorpion armor, and a sentinel shield, even as a div wizard. Enjoy beating out a +15 initiative before factoring in dexterity.
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The ancient was like a what if scenario as tbh there is probably a fighter build that could kill an ancient dragon (probably not a gold or red though but that remains to be seen). As with the flying sentinel is very good. Oops over sight hold person only does well people so let’s say the gold dragon is shapeshifted into a human I think it would be possible to “stun-lock” the ”dragon.”
Yeah Zealot Barb they can’t die from damage so yeah other ways must be implemented (like you said sleep, banishment, etc).
The earth elemental has more than 100hp but in a battle a wizard could quicken a fire bolt then power word kill if needed but the wizard could do like anything else so yeah.
Hey since I wanted to make a ranged EK build this is my have at it (revisions will have to happen to it most likely).
Fighter (Fighting Style: Archery), Level 20, Eldritch Knight, Half-Elf Variant (Wood Elf?: Fleet of Foot), 7 ASI’s:
8, 15, 15, 15, 8, 8 (Point Buy)
8, 16, 16, 17, 8, 8 (Tashas to move 2 Cha to Int)
20, 14, 8, 18, 8, 10 (ASI)
ASI’s: +2 Dex, Observer (+1 Int), Elven Accuracy (+1 Dex), Piercer (+1 Dex), Metamagic Adept (Subtle Spell, Quickened Spell), Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert
For the purpose of this build I will be assuming all sharpshooter attacks hit and the wizard fails his hold person save.
Equipment: Heavy Crossbow, and a big cheap item that is to be dropped for cover (Dropping objects don’t cost anything so it’s free!). Also as the battle starts he (before initiative has been rolled) is holding/wielding the object and material components for hold person.
Round One:
EK drops the obscuring item for covering the material components of hold person, he then casts Hold Person (Using subtle spell), after casting Hold Person* (See Asterisk to what would the EK do if the hold person fails), the EK pulls out his Heavy Crossbow and moves within 5ft of the wizard expending his action surge making 4 ranged attacks and a fifth due to Improved War Magic.
Each shot has piercer, sharpshooter and is a critical hit dealing per shot 3d10/16.95 (one dice can be rerolled averaging 5.95 while the other 2 d10’s average 5.5) + 5 damage (20 Dex Bonus) + 10 (Sharpshooter Bonus) for a total of 32 (31.95). Additionally, whenever he hits the wizard, the wizard is affected by Eldritch Strike so his next save against hold person is at disadvantage (and it’s probably poor as the wizard builds don’t use wisdom) so he probably fails giving the EK another turn.
Round Two:
EK uses action for 4 attacks, action surge 4 attacks, inflicting Eldritch Strike giving the wizard disadvantage on its next save for Hold Person (Also if you don’t wanna attack the Eldritch Knight has some spells that can help fight the wizard).
Round Three: If wizard fails again/isn’t dead the EK can attack 4 more times each still criting and giving the wizard disadvantage on it’s next save.
Round Four: Let’s assume the wizard saves at its end of turn that means the EK then gets 4-5 more attacks (although not with critting or with advantage and the wizard can then also cast shield or whatever as a reaction).
So let’s say the EK gets at least 13 of these critical attacks (discounting the extra as the wizard recovers at the end of his turn).
That means he would deal 3d10/16.95 (one dice can be rerolled averaging 5.95 while the other 2 d10’s average 5.5) + 5 damage (20 Dex Bonus) + 10 (Sharpshooter Bonus) for a total of 31.95 per strike. That means it is 31.95 x 13 coming out to 415.35 damage.
*if the hold person fails the fighter then uses his improved war magic to make one attack (as a bonus action)—on a hit—the wizards next save is at disadvantage (and he deals an average of 31.95), then goes back behind the object and casts Hold Person again (expending his action surge to do so) using the same tactic then moves with 5ft of the wizard for next turn to try to burst down the wizard (assuming he fails the Hold Person).
EDIT: Miscalculated the damage as I applied the piercer’s reroll to every attack so the actual total damage is 410.4 damage so not a big difference but enough to be noted.
A wizard can't quicken spells... and even then, you would just kill the earth elemental. the druid would be very alive still, able to just wild shape right back into an earth/fire elemental.
With Power Word Kill they would actually be dead: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/68271/does-power-word-kill-kill-druids-in-wild-shape
Thats basically how you take down a wild shaped/polymorphed creature is you get them below 100 and power word kill.
Metamagic Adept feat Kyreeeeeeee.
I don't really buy this dropping cover strategy De4th. First, dropping an item is not the same thing as setting something down solidly on the ground. This cover could be dropped funny at an angle and just tip over. Second, if the item is giving the fighter cover from the wizard, then the wizard should also have cover from the fighter and thus not be targetable. Overall, it seems like a strategy that relies on too much DM fiat to be white room material.
13 crits is way too many to just assume happen. If you get the hold person that is 4 auto crit attacks with action surge that turn. Assuming the wizard saves at the end of their turn (Dread makes this save regularly despite Eldritch Strike as he normally has advantage) then he is no longer paralyzed and any more attacks will not be auto-crits. If the Wizard does fail then the fighter can action surge a second time for 8 more auto-crits and a total of 12. If the wizard did pass their save, the EK can choose to try the lock again (very risky against Dread's advantage) and use their second action surge for 4 more auto-crits. So, assuming a lot of luck (Dread has +1 wisdom, proficiency, advantage, and Lucky) the EK can pull off up to 12 auto crits, maybe 8, before Dread can do anything, but it's much, much more likely that they are limited to 4 auto crits.
You're also continuing to assume everything hits, which just isn't a thing and something I only ever brought up to prove just how tanky Dread was against the Arcane Archer shenanigans. I'm kind of regretting doing that now because all of your calculations are based on everything hitting which is very inaccurate. Even with the wizard paralyzed the EK has a chance to miss and that should be factored into your numbers.
Correct.
As with the solidly landing on the ground... you know the object could be a 5ft by 5ft (Or whatever) cube wrapped in opaque material and my character be 5ft 6’ and just see over the cube but the wizard can only see his head and therefore not see my EK holding the material components. As for the second reason... you know you don’t need total cover for this strategy only cover for the material components to be obscured (like you could use a blanket draped over the front of use obscuring your hand by not your eyes. As for the “DM fiat” not really all it is, is per say a large crate, blanket, cape, or otherwise (as there are MANY objects) to fulfil such a task. As with the cover from the wizards gets that doesn’t matter as the EK is just casting a spell.
On the first turn say the first hold person happens the EK gets 5 attacks: Four from Action Surge and 1 from Improved War Magic. As for the success on the first hold person (if you look at the Asterisk on the build) he would just cast hold person again after attacking with improved war magic so it is reasonably probable that the wizard fails especially against two hold persons with a Eldritch Strike in between (cancelling your advantage). And if the wizard breaks from the second hold person on their turn you can repeat though that time will be a little harder as the wizard can Counterspell your first hold so you would get one more chance after that the EK is lost.
It hard not to assume hits when you have ether advantage with a +11 to hit or triple advantage (Elven Accuracy) with a +8 to hit. Although even if many where to miss the damage out put is high enough where missing say 4 shot/attacks (which is very unlikely in the ranged build) would still mean the wizard would be dead as the damage is quite high.
But the EK builds are entirely out done by a Satyr (OP) Chronurgy Wizard as being Satyr means the wizard is Fey therefore non-humaniod (unaffected by Hold PERSON and Advantage against Magic) but tbh for the sake of this thread I think that a Satyr on any side is quite OP but almost unstoppable on a wizard (in most cases).
Do tell if I didn’t address something or not address something clearly enough.
If you have a build in mind I can run DPR numbers vs the AC of Dredd if you want.
Half-Elf (Drow Ancestry this time as it is a little better)
8, 20, 16, 18, 8, 8
ASI, Peircer (One damage die reroll per turn), Metamagic Adept, Sharpshooter, Elven Accuracy, Crossbow Expert, Observent, +2 Dex. Uses Heavy Crossbow.
I’ll give it a try but I want you to do it to see if I’m correct (I’m not great with numbers but who knows).
To hit is +8.
Damage is 31.95 ish.
Has triple advantage.
Against AC of say 19 (Dread’s base AC).
Amount of Attacks 13.
that means 11 or higher hits (50%)
advantage x 3 (50% / 3? = 16.66 to miss)
16.66 = % = Decimal = 0.1666 to miss
0.1666 x 13 = 2.1658 attacks miss?
2.1658 x 31.95 = 69.19731 damage for the attacks?
total damage minus lost damage = 410.35 - 69.19731
= 341.15 damage in those attacks I know it’s not DPR but eh.
I have zero confidence in what I’ve done... help meh.
I already said this but a Satyr counters the EK hard (along with like ALL others). Then being a Chronurgist adds on even more as the Satyr Chronurgist can be build to be anything (practically) from a Tank (see say Dread), high initiative, or whatever else.
But tbh I feel like if the Satyr race is ignored and instead focus on other build that aren’t JUST I choose X race and therefore OP (like how many people ban Yuan-ti, Aarakocra, UA war forged, Satyr and more! Haha).
Here is what I got from the calculator: https://imgur.com/a/S8wFKQv
I don't know how to do the re-roll for the damage but I am assuming it will add about 5 points of damage on average? Not sure how to incorporate that.
However if you can get ADV you could do about 243 damage. If you assume auto-crit then your numbers would be close in line but seems like a hold person would be a long shot as the wizard could just counterspell and would have more than enough slots to still finish the fight.
However if the stars aligned they could do it but I would put the probability fairly low.
Damage Calculator
De4th this is the calculator Optimus and I have been using. It's awesome. Fool around with it some time. It's super easy to input the numbers you need and it even calculates a separate DPR for sharpshooter and GWM in the -5/+10 portion of the chart.
Yes I believe I showed it to you all lol....
I used it in the link.
Ahh yes Thanks you (and to you Optimus) it seems quite interesting I’ll check it out.
Yeah Optimus, thanks for showing it... a while back at this point. Never knew about it until recently thanks to you. Very cool stuff and it's super easy to use.
And thanks for Dredd!
Now that we’ve gone this far where do we go because since the introduction of Satyr the wizard can like just win 99.9% of the time (and I know I said we can just ignore the Satyr but can we?... should we?). But then this leads into the argument of if this forum is level 20 Fighter vs Level 20 Wizard should races (and their features) be included? it should we just debate the merits and capabilities of ether class at their peak?
So yeah... there is plenty of ways to discuss in this topic especially concerning it’s semantics.
I find find it pretty funny whenever I do a post (Like #501) where it just (in a way) kills the posts afterward and then I have to do some amazing necromancy returning it to life (like I hopefully will now do... again).
As right now the BIGGEST obstacle to the fighter is a Satyr Chronurgist Tank Wizard: Satyr = No Hold Person, Chronurgist = No AAA build, and Tank = Not much of any other NOVA builds can get past like 200 hp and a high AC.
And this got me thinking (As I don’t think there is any build that can get the amount of damage needed to outright kill a wizard in one round) what else can the fighter do to prolong a fight that wasn’t something that a DM might have to rule over (like lasso, rope, gag, “grapple techniques?”, stopping certain spell components ie materials etc) and that brought me back to the EK and spells that would be able to prolong a fight (as the other options as you said may require some DM fiat... even if I don’t like it it’s is RAW I guess).
So my search as to what the EK could do led me to the conditions as he could potentially afflict to the wizard and prolong the fight (give the fighter the turns he needs). And that condition was the Incapacitated condition or other conditions that gave it like paralyzed, stunned, unconscious and petrified.
Buuuttt there was a problem with that as an EK only has access to cantrip-4th level spells so limiting the spells he could acquire as such the only paralyzing spell available is Hold Person that doesn’t work, no stunning or petrifying spells, and one unconscious inflicting spell of which is sleep but it is way too weak and therefore unneeded as even upcasted to level four sleep only averages 49.5 hp so it isn’t that great (though perhaps it could be used with the cover strategy and used for “damage” but I doubt it).
But then you say why did I make this unnecessarily large post was it for nothing (ahh yes... over dramatization). THERE IS ONE SPELL (that may or may not work against the Satyr) and that spell is... Hideous Laughter that just gives the target CREATURE the Incapacitated condition (along with prone but whatever). As such that means it is possible to stop the wizard from getting a turn and possibly (though SUPER unlikely give the fighter an extra turn).
So in conclusion and EK fighter can technically stop a wizards turn and attempt to perhaps just maybe get close to inch by a wizards hp pool.
But then again (though I doubt it) there may be a build out there that can (normally-as in one turn) get past the hp of a wizard in one turn. Although that Nova build has yet to be seen if it even exists as it is very hard to get to such a height of damage on average numbers alone.
PS: Morale of the story a well built wizard can practically defeat anything and anyone ever...
I just realized I might as well have just made an essay... haha?
There is no way Fighter wins this. People keep mentioning fighter builds and subclasses. Wizard takes Divination subclass, portents the fighter to go second with one of its three dice, then uses any combination of spells to end the battle. (Polymorph/PWK, Forcecage/sickening radiance), or at least teleport far enough away to where the fighter will not be able to reach her, so that she can prepare other challenges (simulacrum herself, simulacrum summons other beasts, etc.). Like if it is a Divination wizard with any initiative boosting feat or item, fighter loses 95% of the time. (And that is being generous)
I triple dog dare you to win initiative against a fighter with alert, scorpion armor, and a sentinel shield, even as a div wizard. Enjoy beating out a +15 initiative before factoring in dexterity.