There is no way Fighter wins this. People keep mentioning fighter builds and subclasses.
Answer: There actually is a way he can win but to do so the wizard needs to not only have a bad build while the fighter has an optimized build but also the wizard and fighter would need horrible and amazing luck respectively. As with the “People keep mentioning fighter builds and subclasses” well the reason is to have a productive discussion one must give and take ideas like certain builds, feats, combos, and subclasses.
Wizard takes Divination subclass, portents the fighter to go second with one of its three dice, then uses any combination of spells to end the battle. (Polymorph/PWK, Forcecage/sickening radiance), or at least teleport far enough away to where the fighter will not be able to reach her, so that she can prepare other challenges (simulacrum herself, simulacrum summons other beasts, etc.).
Answer: You got the right idea but in this optimized battle just being a divination wizard isn’t enough (at least for me) so for most of any build the Chronurgist is usually better but tbh they are both great along with some of the other subclasses the wizard has. As for Polymorph/PWK that combo (although good against others) is not good against the fighter as he has access not only to Indomitable but lucky and other features/abilities. While Forcecage/sickening is proven to be lethal to most if not all creatures (specialized fighter builds too!). Additionally, as for the other options teleport, simulacrum/wish and etc it just goes to show that the wizard has an overwhelming advantage not only in utility, capability, variability and most of all adaptability.
Like if it is a Divination wizard with any initiative boosting feat or item, fighter loses 95% of the time. (And that is being generous)
Answer: Even without initiative boosting feats (items are a no go) the wizard can still defeat the fighter in initiative or in other forms. As with an optimized fighter vs the optimized wizard the odds are at LEAST 1 - 100 in the wizards favour.
There is no way Fighter wins this. People keep mentioning fighter builds and subclasses.
Answer: Yes the fighter has the deck stacked against him though tbh it’s more like the game was rigged from the start. As for “People keep mentioning fighter builds and subclasses” that’s just part of the give and take of discussion. The most viable fighter subclasses are the Eldritch Knight (then in descending order), Arcane Archer, Samurai/Echo Knight, then Battle Master as for all the others they aren’t good enough to be mentioned in this discussion (I haven’t seen any builds/features that give the other subclasses any profound merits).
Wizard takes Divination subclass, portents the fighter to go second with one of its three dice, then uses any combination of spells to end the battle. (Polymorph/PWK, Forcecage/sickening radiance), or at least teleport far enough away to where the fighter will not be able to reach her, so that she can prepare other challenges (simulacrum herself, simulacrum summons other beasts, etc.). Like if it is a Divination wizard with any initiative boosting feat or item, fighter loses 95% of the time. (And that is being generous)
Answer: Chronurgist tbh (I feel) is just better than divination though Chronurgist, Divination, Abjuration and etc are all good subclasses. As for Polymorph/PWK, the Polymorph isn’t that good since fighter has Indomitable while the Forcecage/Sickening radiance is really good though an EK and echo knight can attempt to escape the cage. And yes the wizard has many ways and spells to completely outmatch the fighter.
I triple dog dare you to win initiative against a fighter with alert, scorpion armor, and a sentinel shield, even as a div wizard. Enjoy beating out a +15 initiative before factoring in dexterity.
Answer: Ok first of all magic items are a no go, second wizard can get alert also, third divination can still alter his or your (the wizard’s initiative), lucky is also a thing (though fighter can take it) and so is the Chronurgist, and War Magic (Int to Initiative). But yeah anyway...
There's a lot of quibbling over initiative in this thread, but what a Fighter really needs isn't to go first from a standing face-off; when they really want to strike is when the Wizard is settling down for a long rest after burning through most of their spell slots.
Because the biggest problem with this kind of theory crafting is that aside from classes being balanced towards being part of a party rather than fighting each other, most martial classes are about longevity; casters can be a lot stronger so long as their resources hold out, but once they run low their options become more and more limited. While a high level wizard gets cantrips and some other stuff they can use all the time, once they've lost some of their most broken tricks things aren't so stacked in their favour. Meanwhile, all else being equal (both had a chance to short rest) a Fighter is basically just as effective at the end of a day as they were at the start of it, whereas a Wizard that cast too many spells early on needs a long rest.
You also get the issue that as you expand it out the balance changes dramatically; what's true of a 1v1 fight isn't going to necessarily be true of a 2v2, or a 4-way deathmatch and so-on.
So I dunno, it's a bit of a weird thing to discuss in the first place; if you're assuming a straight up duel with both parties at full strength to start then of course the high level Wizard will win 90% of the time, but you're talking about a fight that massively stacks the odds in favour of the Wizard to begin with, because the strength of a Fighter isn't just what they can do during hour 1 of the adventuring day, it's what they can do at hour 24+, when they're dragging the spent rest of the party behind them on a stretcher while fighting off the 50th wave of goblins. 😄
And lastly, why level 20? Why not level 1? The higher the level (which most campaigns will never reach), the more the odds are stacked in the wizard's favour, because they have access to more and more broken combos of high level spells. But compare at level 5 (which nearly every campaign will actually go through) and the situation is completely different; while a Wizard at that level still has a few tricks, they're also able to easily run out of resources in a single fight if they're not careful.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
There's a lot of quibbling over initiative in this thread, but what a Fighter really needs isn't to go first from a standing face-off; when they really want to strike is when the Wizard is settling down for a long rest after burning through most of their spell slots.
Because the biggest problem with this kind of theory crafting is that aside from classes being balanced towards being part of a party rather than fighting each other, most martial classes are about longevity; casters can be a lot stronger so long as their resources hold out, but once they run low their options become more and more limited. While a high level wizard gets cantrips and some other stuff they can use all the time, once they've lost some of their most broken tricks things aren't so stacked in their favour. Meanwhile, all else being equal (both had a chance to short rest) a Fighter is basically just as effective at the end of a day as they were at the start of it, whereas a Wizard that cast too many spells early on needs a long rest.
You also get the issue that as you expand it out the balance changes dramatically; what's true of a 1v1 fight isn't going to necessarily be true of a 2v2, or a 4-way deathmatch and so-on.
So I dunno, it's a bit of a weird thing to discuss in the first place; if you're assuming a straight up duel with both parties at full strength to start then of course the high level Wizard will win 90% of the time, but you're talking about a fight that massively stacks the odds in favour of the Wizard to begin with, because the strength of a Fighter isn't just what they can do during hour 1 of the adventuring day, it's what they can do at hour 24+, when they're dragging the spent rest of the party behind them on a stretcher while fighting off the 50th wave of goblins. 😄
And lastly, why level 20? Why not level 1? The higher the level (which most campaigns will never reach), the more the odds are stacked in the wizard's favour, because they have access to more and more broken combos of high level spells. But compare at level 5 (which nearly every campaign will actually go through) and the situation is completely different; while a Wizard at that level still has a few tricks, they're also able to easily run out of resources in a single fight if they're not careful.
The first post was about 20 v 20 and yeah we have discussed earlier levels and I agree a fighter has a much better chance at lower levels.
Overall it's not like 5e is designed for PvP.... especially late level where casters always will dominate.
Overall it's not like 5e is designed for PvP.... especially late level where casters always will dominate.
True, though it's still an issue of timing as much as class "strength", i.e- what scenario actually represents a fair fight here?
Both characters at full strength at the start of a day absolutely heavily favours the caster, because they have all their resources at their disposal, but if they duel mid way through the day after half the Wizard's spell slots are gone that's another matter, as even a level 20 wizard will start to lose options, whereas the Fighter is basically still at full strength except for their small number of long rest abilities such as Indomitable, and the fighter can still be at basically full strength at the end of the day long after the Wizard has spent every slot they have.
It's kind of like asking which dragon would win in a fight, but then staging the fight in one of the dragon's lairs.
A more fair comparison would probably be to look at multiple rounds, i.e- if one is reduced to 0 hp or dies that's a win for the other, then both short rest from 0 hp and start the next round. Of course it'd take longer to work out, but I'm kind of curious where the theoretical tipping point is when the fighter's consistency starts to edge out of the wizard's initial advantage.
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Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
There's a lot of quibbling over initiative in this thread, but what a Fighter really needs isn't to go first from a standing face-off; when they really want to strike is when the Wizard is settling down for a long rest after burning through most of their spell slots.
Because the biggest problem with this kind of theory crafting is that aside from classes being balanced towards being part of a party rather than fighting each other, most martial classes are about longevity; casters can be a lot stronger so long as their resources hold out, but once they run low their options become more and more limited. While a high level wizard gets cantrips and some other stuff they can use all the time, once they've lost some of their most broken tricks things aren't so stacked in their favour. Meanwhile, all else being equal (both had a chance to short rest) a Fighter is basically just as effective at the end of a day as they were at the start of it, whereas a Wizard that cast too many spells early on needs a long rest.
You also get the issue that as you expand it out the balance changes dramatically; what's true of a 1v1 fight isn't going to necessarily be true of a 2v2, or a 4-way deathmatch and so-on.
So I dunno, it's a bit of a weird thing to discuss in the first place; if you're assuming a straight up duel with both parties at full strength to start then of course the high level Wizard will win 90% of the time, but you're talking about a fight that massively stacks the odds in favour of the Wizard to begin with, because the strength of a Fighter isn't just what they can do during hour 1 of the adventuring day, it's what they can do at hour 24+, when they're dragging the spent rest of the party behind them on a stretcher while fighting off the 50th wave of goblins. 😄
And lastly, why level 20? Why not level 1? The higher the level (which most campaigns will never reach), the more the odds are stacked in the wizard's favour, because they have access to more and more broken combos of high level spells. But compare at level 5 (which nearly every campaign will actually go through) and the situation is completely different; while a Wizard at that level still has a few tricks, they're also able to easily run out of resources in a single fight if they're not careful.
The first post was about 20 v 20 and yeah we have discussed earlier levels and I agree a fighter has a much better chance at lower levels.
Overall it's not like 5e is designed for PvP.... especially late level where casters always will dominate.
Here's why I'm so adamant on my position: There was a PvP event held at a gaming store where all my AL friends played. These guys are all power gamers deep into optimization. The winner? A samurai with black razor, alert, mounted combatant (nightmare mount) scorpion armor, maxed out con, lucky, GWM, and a fire giant belt. Now, you had sorcadins and wizards and lvl 20 pure druids all with their staffs of the arch magis, but the guy who came out on top was a purebred fighter.
Granted, the pvp event was in the style of an arena battle royale, and this may not be the best set up for determining who'd win, but none of those players were pushovers, that I can say with absolute certainty and more so after playing in a variety of online AL communities during the pandemic.
Point being, I have seen proof of a fighter beating the odds. That's more than most can say
There's a lot of quibbling over initiative in this thread, but what a Fighter really needs isn't to go first from a standing face-off; when they really want to strike is when the Wizard is settling down for a long rest after burning through most of their spell slots.
Because the biggest problem with this kind of theory crafting is that aside from classes being balanced towards being part of a party rather than fighting each other, most martial classes are about longevity; casters can be a lot stronger so long as their resources hold out, but once they run low their options become more and more limited. While a high level wizard gets cantrips and some other stuff they can use all the time, once they've lost some of their most broken tricks things aren't so stacked in their favour. Meanwhile, all else being equal (both had a chance to short rest) a Fighter is basically just as effective at the end of a day as they were at the start of it, whereas a Wizard that cast too many spells early on needs a long rest.
You also get the issue that as you expand it out the balance changes dramatically; what's true of a 1v1 fight isn't going to necessarily be true of a 2v2, or a 4-way deathmatch and so-on.
So I dunno, it's a bit of a weird thing to discuss in the first place; if you're assuming a straight up duel with both parties at full strength to start then of course the high level Wizard will win 90% of the time, but you're talking about a fight that massively stacks the odds in favour of the Wizard to begin with, because the strength of a Fighter isn't just what they can do during hour 1 of the adventuring day, it's what they can do at hour 24+, when they're dragging the spent rest of the party behind them on a stretcher while fighting off the 50th wave of goblins. 😄
And lastly, why level 20? Why not level 1? The higher the level (which most campaigns will never reach), the more the odds are stacked in the wizard's favour, because they have access to more and more broken combos of high level spells. But compare at level 5 (which nearly every campaign will actually go through) and the situation is completely different; while a Wizard at that level still has a few tricks, they're also able to easily run out of resources in a single fight if they're not careful.
The first post was about 20 v 20 and yeah we have discussed earlier levels and I agree a fighter has a much better chance at lower levels.
Overall it's not like 5e is designed for PvP.... especially late level where casters always will dominate.
this is probably an important note to consider, dungeons and dragons is meant to be an collaborative storytelling experience, PvE rather than pvp. A fully rested wizard may be able to defeat a fully rested fighter if both are 20th level, but at the same time if a tarrasque awakens, an covert cult is summoning fiends in in the middle of highly populated cities or an evil vampire lord plots to take over the world a 20th level fighter and a 20th level wizard would be much better at neutralizing the threat than a pair of either, especially when it comes to making your spell slots last over several encounters as the fighter's recharing resources lift the burden of the wizard for use of their precious spell slots, letting them have more left over for casting valuable utillity spells.
Situations where a player has to fight a fellow player should be rare (and preferably discussed beforehand out of character) and optimizing your character to excell at such situations is not really a good idea.
Also find it amusing how Haravikk is using #v# to mean "a certain number of people fighting a certain number of other people" while Grimus is using it to mean levels becuase it sound like the perfectly reasonable and optimal setup here is 20 fighters duking it out with 20 wizards (something that would somehow stack the deck even more in favour of the wizards as they can now use resources more efficiently and use more concentration spells)
There's a lot of quibbling over initiative in this thread, but what a Fighter really needs isn't to go first from a standing face-off; when they really want to strike is when the Wizard is settling down for a long rest after burning through most of their spell slots.
Because the biggest problem with this kind of theory crafting is that aside from classes being balanced towards being part of a party rather than fighting each other, most martial classes are about longevity; casters can be a lot stronger so long as their resources hold out, but once they run low their options become more and more limited. While a high level wizard gets cantrips and some other stuff they can use all the time, once they've lost some of their most broken tricks things aren't so stacked in their favour. Meanwhile, all else being equal (both had a chance to short rest) a Fighter is basically just as effective at the end of a day as they were at the start of it, whereas a Wizard that cast too many spells early on needs a long rest.
You also get the issue that as you expand it out the balance changes dramatically; what's true of a 1v1 fight isn't going to necessarily be true of a 2v2, or a 4-way deathmatch and so-on.
So I dunno, it's a bit of a weird thing to discuss in the first place; if you're assuming a straight up duel with both parties at full strength to start then of course the high level Wizard will win 90% of the time, but you're talking about a fight that massively stacks the odds in favour of the Wizard to begin with, because the strength of a Fighter isn't just what they can do during hour 1 of the adventuring day, it's what they can do at hour 24+, when they're dragging the spent rest of the party behind them on a stretcher while fighting off the 50th wave of goblins. 😄
And lastly, why level 20? Why not level 1? The higher the level (which most campaigns will never reach), the more the odds are stacked in the wizard's favour, because they have access to more and more broken combos of high level spells. But compare at level 5 (which nearly every campaign will actually go through) and the situation is completely different; while a Wizard at that level still has a few tricks, they're also able to easily run out of resources in a single fight if they're not careful.
The first post was about 20 v 20 and yeah we have discussed earlier levels and I agree a fighter has a much better chance at lower levels.
Overall it's not like 5e is designed for PvP.... especially late level where casters always will dominate.
this is probably an important note to consider, dungeons and dragons is meant to be an collaborative storytelling experience, PvE rather than pvp. A fully rested wizard may be able to defeat a fully rested fighter if both are 20th level, but at the same time if a tarrasque awakens, an covert cult is summoning fiends in in the middle of highly populated cities or an evil vampire lord plots to take over the world a 20th level fighter and a 20th level wizard would be much better at neutralizing the threat than a pair of either, especially when it comes to making your spell slots last over several encounters as the fighter's recharing resources lift the burden of the wizard for use of their precious spell slots, letting them have more left over for casting valuable utillity spells.
Situations where a player has to fight a fellow player should be rare (and preferably discussed beforehand out of character) and optimizing your character to excell at such situations is not really a good idea.
Also find it amusing how Haravikk is using #v# to mean "a certain number of people fighting a certain number of other people" while Grimus is using it to mean levels becuase it sound like the perfectly reasonable and optimal setup here is 20 fighters duking it out with 20 wizards (something that would somehow stack the deck even more in favour of the wizards as they can now use resources more efficiently and use more concentration spells)
How many level 1 wizards would it take to take down a level 20 fighter?
There's a lot of quibbling over initiative in this thread, but what a Fighter really needs isn't to go first from a standing face-off; when they really want to strike is when the Wizard is settling down for a long rest after burning through most of their spell slots.
Because the biggest problem with this kind of theory crafting is that aside from classes being balanced towards being part of a party rather than fighting each other, most martial classes are about longevity; casters can be a lot stronger so long as their resources hold out, but once they run low their options become more and more limited. While a high level wizard gets cantrips and some other stuff they can use all the time, once they've lost some of their most broken tricks things aren't so stacked in their favour. Meanwhile, all else being equal (both had a chance to short rest) a Fighter is basically just as effective at the end of a day as they were at the start of it, whereas a Wizard that cast too many spells early on needs a long rest.
You also get the issue that as you expand it out the balance changes dramatically; what's true of a 1v1 fight isn't going to necessarily be true of a 2v2, or a 4-way deathmatch and so-on.
So I dunno, it's a bit of a weird thing to discuss in the first place; if you're assuming a straight up duel with both parties at full strength to start then of course the high level Wizard will win 90% of the time, but you're talking about a fight that massively stacks the odds in favour of the Wizard to begin with, because the strength of a Fighter isn't just what they can do during hour 1 of the adventuring day, it's what they can do at hour 24+, when they're dragging the spent rest of the party behind them on a stretcher while fighting off the 50th wave of goblins. 😄
And lastly, why level 20? Why not level 1? The higher the level (which most campaigns will never reach), the more the odds are stacked in the wizard's favour, because they have access to more and more broken combos of high level spells. But compare at level 5 (which nearly every campaign will actually go through) and the situation is completely different; while a Wizard at that level still has a few tricks, they're also able to easily run out of resources in a single fight if they're not careful.
The first post was about 20 v 20 and yeah we have discussed earlier levels and I agree a fighter has a much better chance at lower levels.
Overall it's not like 5e is designed for PvP.... especially late level where casters always will dominate.
this is probably an important note to consider, dungeons and dragons is meant to be an collaborative storytelling experience, PvE rather than pvp. A fully rested wizard may be able to defeat a fully rested fighter if both are 20th level, but at the same time if a tarrasque awakens, an covert cult is summoning fiends in in the middle of highly populated cities or an evil vampire lord plots to take over the world a 20th level fighter and a 20th level wizard would be much better at neutralizing the threat than a pair of either, especially when it comes to making your spell slots last over several encounters as the fighter's recharing resources lift the burden of the wizard for use of their precious spell slots, letting them have more left over for casting valuable utillity spells.
Situations where a player has to fight a fellow player should be rare (and preferably discussed beforehand out of character) and optimizing your character to excell at such situations is not really a good idea.
Also find it amusing how Haravikk is using #v# to mean "a certain number of people fighting a certain number of other people" while Grimus is using it to mean levels becuase it sound like the perfectly reasonable and optimal setup here is 20 fighters duking it out with 20 wizards (something that would somehow stack the deck even more in favour of the wizards as they can now use resources more efficiently and use more concentration spells)
How many level 1 wizards would it take to take down a level 20 fighter?
Vice versa?
ANSWER: I took the points from this and answered them though if I missed something do tell I’ll address it later perhaps.
Point 1: This game is for party play not PvP.
Answer: True it is a game that focuses on the team aspect of the party and is ill suited for PvP combat as spell casters at around like 5th (and sometimes lower in the wizards case) just absolutely surpass all that the fighter can do without an abundant amount of magic items.
Point 2: Why so much talk of initiative.
Answer: Well the thing is if a wizard has prep time or in this case is the first to act his spells make him almost untouchable especially if he is the first to cast I.e winning initiative.
Point 3: Fighters are for longevity/attrition battles.
Answer: Quite true... ish because well there are NOVA build built for exactly that big burst damage like most samurai, and certain EK build (along with others). Though still if we were to do an arena battle to see how long it would take for the fighter to defeat the wizard that day would still never come since if during a the 10th match and the wizard is like “darn I can’t one shot of save or suck spell him anymore he can just cast any type of conjure spell (teleport, demiplane, whatever) wait it out then come back full power against the fighter (who also probably took a long rest) and since full power fighter vs wizard the wizard wins the wizard can just win for as long as he needs to. Though the wizard could just go into his demiplane then through a combination of wish, simulacrum, true polymorph, and magic jar become a permanent gold dragon with all of my class levels and now newly acquired dragon abilities.
Point 4: Why not lvl 1v1, 3v3, 5v5, or lvls 11v11... etc?
Answer: In a 1v1 (level 1 vs level 1) it it fully determined by who gets their first attack to hit because there are spells that would just insta knock out the fighter (like sleep or a damage spell for a reliable easy knock out spell for example) while the fighter needs to go first and one shot the wizard which I find decently hard to do so even then if the wizard just prepares against that with say investing in con and dex while being a Vumen to get lucky he could reliable win say like 80% of the battles. As for third level a Chronurgist or divination wizard to go first kinda just wins with his spell selection and this goes on all the way up to level 20.
Point 5: Fighters will dominate early levels...
Answer: Yes and No. Yes as in he has many short rest abilities but also the wizard has arcane recovery and rituals spells plus cantrips (prestidigitation, firebolt, and etc). So yeah...
Point 6: Would a pair of lvl 20 fighter wizard be better than wizard/wizard or fighter/fighter?
Answer: I’d rather have two wizards than a fighter/wizard or fighter/fighter as two wizards are just that good.
Point 7: As for how many level 1 wizards would it take to take down a level 20 fighter? Vice versa?
Answer: I think it would take approximately like 20 level one wizards (mind they are all working together and have a strategy) as I could see that much defeating if not majorly wounding a level 20 fighter (provided he isn’t a pure tank build high AC/Survivor build made just to talk the hits then one shot the flimsy like 6hp wizard). As for vice versa (lvl 20 wizard) the fighters have no chance game over unless then can fight the wizards geruilla tactics and infinite resources as he could just back off if he used up all his spells (fireball, etc) as all he would need is a fireball to kill the fighters (though of course he would not get to cocky against the thousands of fighters) as for the fighters strategy they would need to have all longbows and be variant humans for the extra feat to try and even touch the wizard (this is barring wish from just being like “I win”) though of course the wizard could just be an Aaracokra then cast invulnerability or some long lasting radius damage spell or whatever to just win (possibilities are endless).
Point 7: As for how many level 1 wizards would it take to take down a level 20 fighter? Vice versa?
Answer: I think it would take approximately like 20 level one wizards (mind they are all working together and have a strategy) as I could see that much defeating if not majorly wounding a level 20 fighter (provided he isn’t a pure tank build high AC/Survivor build made just to talk the hits then one shot the flimsy like 6hp wizard). As for vice versa (lvl 20 wizard) the fighters have no chance game over unless then can fight the wizards geruilla tactics and infinite resources as he could just back off if he used up all his spells (fireball, etc) as all he would need is a fireball to kill the fighters (though of course he would not get to cocky against the thousands of fighters) as for the fighters strategy they would need to have all longbows and be variant humans for the extra feat to try and even touch the wizard (this is barring wish from just being like “I win”) though of course the wizard could just be an Aaracokra then cast invulnerability or some long lasting radius damage spell or whatever to just win (possibilities are endless).
MAGES HATE THEM:
Learn how a team of 5-7 1st level characters defeated a 20th level character with ONE SIMPLE TRICK
let's start from the bottom. Being pinned to the ground underneath a 9 foot diameter boulder is not exactly the best situation to be in for any character, especially a wizard. Being unable to freely move your hands somatic components become impossible to produce, and with either the large boulder or the soil possibly covering your mouth so too might verbal components be difficult.
Now how would a character happen to find themselves under a 9 foot diameter bouler (or any large piece of rock for that matter)? Becuase it was flung at them using a siege engine, specifically a trebuchet (rules for whom are found in the dungeon master's guide). The weapon may deal an pitiful 8d10 points of bludgeoning damage, not nearly enough to kill any 20th level character unless that person has like a con score of 6, but it does not have to, it merely has to pin the wizard under a rock where they would struggle to produce spell components and then let the wizard slowly suffocate to death.
It is by no means an 100% percent reliable strategy, seeing as to the amount of preparation it requires and as to how it requires an unwitting wizard to be in the same general location for a while and for you to know in advance (something that would defenetly be an logistical hurdle with the amount of teleportation spells such a high level wizard might have acess to, not to mention the possibility of them having a simulacrum or humonculi that does business on their behalf while they remain in their lairs that wizards are so great at defending) it is still very much within the realm of possibility for a non ludicris amount of fighters to accomplish.
If cumbersome siege engines will not do then a small group of unarmed fighting focused fighters (preferably Unarmed Fighting or Superior technique fighting styles with each one using Custom Lineage + Skilled expert so that grappling modifiers are as high as they can be) can attempt to neutralize the spellcasting of a wizard, a pair or two go for each arm to prevent somatic components while another fighter does in to prevent them from making any noise, and badabing badaboom you are now fighting a restrained and unarmed commoner who just so happens to have a lot of hit points (does rely on already being within melee range of a wizard and beating them in initiative which is a long shot, but again possible). If a wizard cannot utter a single word let alone the very exact noises and pitches that spells require the fact that he knows wish is irrelevant. With a little bit of creativity, hard work and most importantly an extremely large amount of rope anything is possible.
Most "feasible" build for defeating a wizard with conventional firepower using a lot of 1st level fighters would be sharpshooter + superior technique (quick toss) + darts seemingly, as it allows for up to like 2d4 + 1d6 + 24 points of damage per fighter in the first round before they all get killed, potentially more if any of these attacks happens to be a critical hit, meaning that if a lot of these hit (with +0 to hit mind you) allowing potentially four to five of them to get the job done, if we get redundant and say like a dozen or more fighters are using this strat, well eventiually some attacks will hit right?
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
does rely on already being within melee range of a wizard and beating them in initiative which is a long shot, but again possible.
That's why the trick is to not let them know you're fighting them until after you've started fighting them; one of the best weapons in any adventurer's toolkit is the surprise round if you can set one up 😉
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does rely on already being within melee range of a wizard and beating them in initiative which is a long shot, but again possible.
That's why the trick is to not let them know you're fighting them until after you've started fighting them; one of the best weapons in any adventurer's toolkit is the surprise round if you can set one up 😉
I gotta be honest the Trebuchet Ambush Fighter Squad™ is an amazingly... funny and niche idea that was quite amusing tbh.
As for practicality it is as you say not only would you need time, resources, bait (for wizard), Surprise him/win initiative and have the wizard do nothing as the rock is flung towards him to but then also you would need the rock to perfectly bury the wizard (inhibiting his movements: Incapacitated/Restrained) to stop him from moving.
Now as for the holding his arms and mouth to stop them from forming spell components is already hard as not only do you need to get within melee but also succeed on holding both his arms and his mouth and make it so he can’t get out because if he can form verbal components he could cast Misty Step and just teleport 30ft.
So I guess your best bet in this scenario is to grab some chains (Hold Arms), a gag (Stop Speaking), and a blindfold (Stop Sight Spells) for extra restrictions and help for locking down the wizards spellcasting but this all goes down the drain when you realize (like OptimusGrimus said) the wizard can just pick up Alert to stop from being Ambushed like at all and/or picking up Metamagic Adept for good old Subtle Magic so you can just bypass Somatic and Verbal spell components.
P.S: If you were fighting a real level 20 Wizard you wouldn’t even be fighting him you would be fighting his simulacrum who has contingency but even say you were he would already have every preparation complete so much so you would have lost even before you knew you were going to even fight him but now lets say you do fight than kill him not only does the wizard comeback to life (via clone) locked in his impenetrable fortress deep within his secret room behind the large cask of wine within the fortresses cellar of which is protected by all manner of spells, runes, glyphs, wards, magic items, golems, and traps, monsters and so forth.
But of course this room is merely set within his own compact Demiplane filled with so much tricks and magic it’s a wonder the Demiplane doesn’t explode.
Though of course that wizard is probably also secretly an ancient gold dragon after using simulacrum, magic jar and true polymorph, to become a extremely overpowered dragon who also probably has access to true immortality. Well that was a rant...
Though of course that wizard is probably also secretly an ancient gold dragon after using simulacrum, magic jar and true polymorph, to become a extremely overpowered dragon who also probably has access to true immortality. Well that was a rant...
i do not think this particular combination would work as it relies on a lot of assumptions:
1) that a similacrum is considered to have a challenge rating or a level (a little shaky premise but could be argued)
2) that your similacrum is considered to be a CR 24 creature or a creature with 24 levels (something that is nessesary to transform something into an ancient gold dragon, both of those assumptions are kind of absurd seeing as to how YOU are neither 24th level or CR 24)
3) that an ancient gold dragon using the change shape action to temporarily assume the form of a humanoid makes it a elligible target for Magic Jar, something that seems a bit silly, yes it technically would use the creature type of the creature it is turing into but that thing is still a dragon no matter what, it is still considered to have a "true form". Like it just does not quite feel right for it to work that way.
(two side notes: yes you could use a non-CR 24 stat block such as an Adult Gold Dragon and get mostly the same result and we should also mention that you would need to spend a lot of days trying to make this spell work seeing as to how it only has a 10% chance for the dragon to fail a saving throw, but time is not really an issue when you can live forever)
P.S: If you were fighting a real level 20 Wizard you wouldn’t even be fighting him you would be fighting his simulacrum who has contingency but even say you were he would already have every preparation complete so much so you would have lost even before you knew you were going to even fight him but now lets say you do fight than kill him not only does the wizard comeback to life (via clone) locked in his impenetrable fortress deep within his secret room behind the large cask of wine within the fortresses cellar of which is protected by all manner of spells, runes, glyphs, wards, magic items, golems, and traps, monsters and so forth.
But of course this room is merely set within his own compact Demiplane filled with so much tricks and magic it’s a wonder the Demiplane doesn’t explode.
yeah i fully agree to this, those are some of the "logicstical hurdles" i mentioned and fully getting rid of a wizard would more or less require several nations going to war with them
Now as for the holding his arms and mouth to stop them from forming spell components is already hard as not only do you need to get within melee but also succeed on holding both his arms and his mouth and make it so he can’t get out because if he can form verbal components he could cast Misty Step and just teleport 30ft.
So I guess your best bet in this scenario is to grab some chains (Hold Arms), a gag (Stop Speaking), and a blindfold (Stop Sight Spells) for extra restrictions and help for locking down the wizards spellcasting but this all goes down the drain when you realize (like OptimusGrimus said) the wizard can just pick up Alert to stop from being Ambushed like at all and/or picking up Metamagic Adept for good old Subtle Magic so you can just bypass Somatic and Verbal spell components.
the blindfold is a little redundant as there is no way for a wizard to cast spells with nothing but their eyeballs (unless subtle spell is involved but we'll get to that), yeah it is handy but also a bit unnecessary
as for the Alert feat it does make you immune to surprise, it in no way shape or form makes you immune to rolling poorly for your initiative roll and going last in spite of that, plus it is not lite every single 20th level wizard is going to have Alert, it's a nice feat but it is not at all really nessesary for most builds nor does it mesh with your other class features the way some other feats might (but then again maybe if there was this strange cabal of seemingly infinite 1st level variant human fighters mostly using ambush tactics that were out to get you, maybe a lot more wizard would choose Alert as their 19th level feat choice)
As for Metamagic Adept sort of the same thing applies, is every single wizard going to choose that specific feat? And if they do, will all of them choose silent spell specifically? That specific metamagic option can be good for a more socially focused character, perhaps an enchantment or illusion specialist, and it is sometimes very helpful to have against casters who know counterspell or if you often find yourself in situations when you are denied the abillity to use spell components, but other metamagics are also very appealing, and so are other feats. It is the sort of effect that will be extremely useful in certain contexts, but redundant in others, and unless you are expecting to regularly be attacked by the cabal it is not likely that you happen to have just the right metamagic option for this
(then again it is also unlikely that there is a cabal of 1st level variant human fighters who all just happen to want to desperately kill a 20th level wizard, depends on the premises and how you interpret the initial question and how much the concept of "fairness" applies in such an absurd matchup such as this)
speaking of rather unlikely builds and ways to optimize for this specific kind of scenario, i present to you absurd fighter team 2: "yeehaw" tyler and the lads:
Tyler himself would be variant human/ custom linneage, 16 dex, Lucky feat, Superior technique (ambush) and weilding a net
"the lads" on the other hand would also be variant human/ custom linneage, 16 dex, this time with Sharpshooter, superior technique (quick toss) and weilding either just darts or maybe even a longbow + darts (let's say we have about 19 of them)
in a combat scenario, the groups objective would be to kill the wizard before the start of their turn such that the wizard does not have a chance to use any proper spells against them, each of the lads can make two attacks, each a pitiful +0 to hit but dealing a whopping 17.5 points of damage on average for an initial attack with a longbow and 19 for the second attack using Quck Toss, with tyler making his net attack as early as possible to make shure the lads all attack with advantage (lucky feat turns the disadvantage using the net into super-advantage and also helps win initiative). The strategy would become unreliable if the target happens to always be using mage armor and also happens to keep shield prepared (not per se garanteed but far more common than probably every other thing i have mentioned, many wizards do this) or if they happen to specialize in initiative-boosting effects, but becomes way more reliable if they happen to sucessfully ambush the wizard.
(thought of the last one on a whim and decided to share i guess)
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Though of course that wizard is probably also secretly an ancient gold dragon after using simulacrum, magic jar and true polymorph, to become a extremely overpowered dragon who also probably has access to true immortality. Well that was a rant...
i do not think this particular combination would work as it relies on a lot of assumptions:
1) that a similacrum is considered to have a challenge rating or a level (a little shaky premise but could be argued)
2) that your similacrum is considered to be a CR 24 creature or a creature with 24 levels (something that is nessesary to transform something into an ancient gold dragon, both of those assumptions are kind of absurd seeing as to how YOU are neither 24th level or CR 24)
3) that an ancient gold dragon using the change shape action to temporarily assume the form of a humanoid makes it a elligible target for Magic Jar, something that seems a bit silly, yes it technically would use the creature type of the creature it is turing into but that thing is still a dragon no matter what, it is still considered to have a "true form". Like it just does not quite feel right for it to work that way.
(two side notes: yes you could use a non-CR 24 stat block such as an Adult Gold Dragon and get mostly the same result and we should also mention that you would need to spend a lot of days trying to make this spell work seeing as to how it only has a 10% chance for the dragon to fail a saving throw, but time is not really an issue when you can live forever)
Answer: Probably should went in more depth on the combo... but it does work. Spells are: Simulacrum, True Polymorph, Magic Jar, and probably Wish as it would be pretty expensive (probably not to a level 20 character but still).
Part 1: As for if “a similacrum is considered to have a challenge rating or a level (a little shaky premise but could be argued),” since a simulacrum is a “normal creature” and the simulacrum adopts my statistics except for the few exceptions in the spell (I.e. doesn’t regain my resources). So as the simulacrum now has my statistics for all intents and purposes it is me or otherwise known as a level 20 Wizard.
Part 2: Now for the point of me/my simulacrum not being “a CR 24 creature or a creature with 24 levels (something that is necessary to transform something into an ancient gold dragon, both of those assumptions are kind of absurd seeing as to how YOU are neither 24th level or CR 24).” well I was under the assumption you would become an ancient gold dragon though aging (i.e. not immediately) by just polymorphing into an adult gold dragon then just waiting but yeah I already know about the CR restriction and then again I probably should have explained the combo more...
Part 3: Finally as for “using the change shape action to temporarily assume the form of a humanoid makes it a elligible target for Magic Jar, something that seems a bit silly,” While I do acknowledge your grievance I don’t see it that way as I think it is something that kinda does make sense as the vessel must be like you (humanoid) to avoid problems in the transfer but there are many ways to justify it in your campaign if you felt that it didn’t feel like “right” to do so but a it goes it can be done. As for the Side Notes imma just put them with Part 3, of Answer 1. For the 1st side note yes the adult dragon is the same thing and that means technically you could age up to be CR 24 (discounting what your spellcasting potentially adds to your CR) and that means by becoming CR 24 you could if you wanted do this again and choose a CR 21-24 monster (preferably one that grows in CR when aging so you could try to up the CR till you can just become for example like a Spell Casting Tarrasque or something). As for failing the saving throw did you know if you want a character can choose to fail a saving throw so magic jar could 100% take the simul-dragon form every time.
P.S: as for magic jar couldn’t you just Polymorph a not humanoid temporarily into a humanoid to then use magic jar to inhabit the vessel.
P.S: If you were fighting a real level 20 Wizard you wouldn’t even be fighting him you would be fighting his simulacrum who has contingency but even say you were he would already have every preparation complete so much so you would have lost even before you knew you were going to even fight him but now lets say you do fight than kill him not only does the wizard comeback to life (via clone) locked in his impenetrable fortress deep within his secret room behind the large cask of wine within the fortresses cellar of which is protected by all manner of spells, runes, glyphs, wards, magic items, golems, and traps, monsters and so forth.
But of course this room is merely set within his own compact Demiplane filled with so much tricks and magic it’s a wonder the Demiplane doesn’t explode.
yeah i fully agree to this, those are some of the "logicstical hurdles" i mentioned and fully getting rid of a wizard would more or less require several nations going to war with them
Answer: ABSOLUTELY, PREP WIZARD IS BEST WIZARD... but yeah in all seriousness a wizard with prep, knowledge, and the brains to make it work along with his trusty spellbook/s is practically unstoppable (even the gods fear the might wizard haha).
Now as for the holding his arms and mouth to stop them from forming spell components is already hard as not only do you need to get within melee but also succeed on holding both his arms and his mouth and make it so he can’t get out because if he can form verbal components he could cast Misty Step and just teleport 30ft.
So I guess your best bet in this scenario is to grab some chains (Hold Arms), a gag (Stop Speaking), and a blindfold (Stop Sight Spells) for extra restrictions and help for locking down the wizards spellcasting but this all goes down the drain when you realize (like OptimusGrimus said) the wizard can just pick up Alert to stop from being Ambushed like at all and/or picking up Metamagic Adept for good old Subtle Magic so you can just bypass Somatic and Verbal spell components.
the blindfold is a little redundant as there is no way for a wizard to cast spells with nothing but their eyeballs (unless subtle spell is involved but we'll get to that), yeah it is handy but also a bit unnecessary
as for the Alert feat it does make you immune to surprise, it in no way shape or form makes you immune to rolling poorly for your initiative roll and going last in spite of that, plus it is not lite every single 20th level wizard is going to have Alert, it's a nice feat but it is not at all really nessesary for most builds nor does it mesh with your other class features the way some other feats might (but then again maybe if there was this strange cabal of seemingly infinite 1st level variant human fighters mostly using ambush tactics that were out to get you, maybe a lot more wizard would choose Alert as their 19th level feat choice)
As for Metamagic Adept sort of the same thing applies, is every single wizard going to choose that specific feat? And if they do, will all of them choose silent spell specifically? That specific metamagic option can be good for a more socially focused character, perhaps an enchantment or illusion specialist, and it is sometimes very helpful to have against casters who know counterspell or if you often find yourself in situations when you are denied the abillity to use spell components, but other metamagics are also very appealing, and so are other feats. It is the sort of effect that will be extremely useful in certain contexts, but redundant in others, and unless you are expecting to regularly be attacked by the cabal it is not likely that you happen to have just the right metamagic option for this
(then again it is also unlikely that there is a cabal of 1st level variant human fighters who all just happen to want to desperately kill a 20th level wizard, depends on the premises and how you interpret the initial question and how much the concept of "fairness" applies in such an absurd matchup such as this)
Answer: This probably will be in some Parts too.
Part 1: Well is the blindfold ”a little redundant” because “there is no way for a wizard to cast spells with nothing but their eyeballs” in a way yes but in others no but a blindfold also means his attacks are at disadvantage among also being unable to see and this is only compounded by a he fact it makes all attacks against the wizard at advantage so it not really unnecessary.
Part 2: Ahh now it’s Alert while it does stop surprise while giving +5 to Dex among other bonuses. Also never said that it “makes you immune to rolling poorly for your initiative roll and going last” but that’s nether here nor there as both Divination (Portent x3), and Chronurgy (Chronal Shift works and Convergent Future works I’d argue/have argued). But yeah in reality (of which this battle is not as I doubt the Vumen Fight Cabal exist in most campaigns) most wizards wouldn’t have alert unless paranoid (or just want some extra prep) or wanting that extra protection against assassination say from a Thief Guild he angered awhile back or something like that.
Part 3: As for Metamagic Adept of course not everyone will have it but I wouldn’t be surprised if some wizards were born with an aptitude for Metamagic but decided to study or were studying and uncovered their Metamagic power only to continue while incorporating it into their style or perhaps an Archmage reveals this power only to realize he is to past the point of Turing back and just uses it to add some flair to his already vast magical ability. As for subtle spell and social encounters sure it’s amazing but in combat I’d argue it’s potential is amazing.
Part 4: But yeah as for fantasy reality’s sake it is quite “unlikely that there is a cabal of 1st level variant human fighters who all just happen to want to desperately kill a 20th level wizard.” Sooo... yeah.
speaking of rather unlikely builds and ways to optimize for this specific kind of scenario, i present to you absurd fighter team 2: "yeehaw" tyler and the lads:
Tyler himself would be variant human/ custom linneage, 16 dex, Lucky feat, Superior technique (ambush) and weilding a net
"the lads" on the other hand would also be variant human/ custom linneage, 16 dex, this time with Sharpshooter, superior technique (quick toss) and weilding either just darts or maybe even a longbow + darts (let's say we have about 19 of them)
in a combat scenario, the groups objective would be to kill the wizard before the start of their turn such that the wizard does not have a chance to use any proper spells against them, each of the lads can make two attacks, each a pitiful +0 to hit but dealing a whopping 17.5 points of damage on average for an initial attack with a longbow and 19 for the second attack using Quck Toss, with tyler making his net attack as early as possible to make shure the lads all attack with advantage (lucky feat turns the disadvantage using the net into super-advantage and also helps win initiative). The strategy would become unreliable if the target happens to always be using mage armor and also happens to keep shield prepared (not per se garanteed but far more common than probably every other thing i have mentioned, many wizards do this) or if they happen to specialize in initiative-boosting effects, but becomes way more reliable if they happen to sucessfully ambush the wizard.
(thought of the last one on a whim and decided to share i guess)
Answer: More Parts... this is a lot of words...
Part 1: Ah yes finally challenger 2 not only do we have the great and venerable Trebuchet Ambush Fighter Squad™“ but we also now have the almighty Cowboy Tyler’s Dart Lads™ (yeehaw) in the mix. Welp.
Part 2: Now as for the +0 hit yeah not the best odds especially if the wizard has mage armor and/or is a high Dex/high Con build used for survival or even a high initiative to go first (also having shield is also very good).
Part 3: As for the Net I think a blindfold hold (hand over eyes holding head grapple) is as good if not better among other things but that is just me so yeah.
Anyways that was a lot do tell if I didn’t address something or whatever.
Say in the Level 20 Fighter vs Level 20 Wizard matchup the only practical strategies so far the fighter can employ are:
Stop spellcasting (usable by any type of build) via, Hold arms, Gag, Blindfold, and pummeling the wizard before he can get out. This strategy is destroyed by ether the wizard getting to cast or subtle spell. Although the blindfold can shut the wizard down a lot (Blinded Condition) and the ability to no longer use sight spells (is HUGE) for the fighter. The stop spellcasting is mostly stopped by just getting metamagic adept subtle spell.
Hold person EK build by holding then mass criting the wizard. The EK’s counter is the wizard being a satyr as Hold Person can’t stop him by virtue of having a Fey creature type so the EK is left with a paltry hideous laughter (only being able to stop the wizard form getting a turn... maybe).
Arcane Archer (Aasimer) multi banish build to stack damage though large amount of attacks. The AA’s counter is a Chronurgist as he has Convergent Future to just win on the banish.
And last but not least is just a plain nova build that can hopefully average (on all hits) around 300 damage. Top Nova builds are EK Hold, Samuri/Echo multi-attack, GWM/SS builds and/or an Elven Accuracy type build. The Nova’s Counter is a high initiative and/or high AC/HP build to be able to rank most of all of the attacks.
So my questions is there anyway the fighter can get past the following: Satyr Tank (High Dex/Con) Chronurgist, With Metamagic Adept: Subtle Spell. So the real question is can the fighter get past subtle spell also how does time stop and being grappled work can you get out of the grapple even though you can’t affect the grappler without timestop being messed with.
So is it possible to stop a wizard by holding an opaque bag over his head (Blindfold) even when the wizard has subtle spell since seemingly even with time stop you can’t effect the fighter grapple/blindfold technique, or is there another spell (since I’m just going off the top of my head) that can help the wizard out in this situation?
I’ve been thinking in what way can a wizard get out of being blindfolded (bag overhead/Blindness), Gagged (no verbal components), and their hands/arms held (stopping somatic/most material components) assuming the wizard has subtle spell. What spell or feature can the wizard use to get out of such a situation? Keep in mind since he is blindfolded, and has his arms held he can’t cast spells that require sight or use material components (can’t access them unless his is holding them but this is assuming he can still use it) while the wizard must use subtle spell to bypass the gag/bound arms.
Alter Self....just become a different enough shape for the gags to fall off...or grow fangs and bite the gag off.
Answer: Well I guess you could alter then bite the gag off but that would take up your turn (casting Alter Self) then your next turn (biting the gag off). So not that plausible.
Answer: That’s a hard one to get past as the only way to get past that spell is by incapacitation because you can use it even without sight, or it’s verbal/somatic components because of subtle spell. So the best bet to stop that would be hold person or hideous laughter (Incapacitate).
So I guess the best build right now is weird EK Nova build using hideous laughter to get another turn to attack the wizard.
I’ve been thinking in what way can a wizard get out of being blindfolded (bag overhead/Blindness), Gagged (no verbal components), and their hands/arms held (stopping somatic/most material components) assuming the wizard has subtle spell. What spell or feature can the wizard use to get out of such a situation? Keep in mind since he is blindfolded, and has his arms held he can’t cast spells that require sight or use material components (can’t access them unless his is holding them but this is assuming he can still use it) while the wizard must use subtle spell to bypass the gag/bound arms.
Dimension door does not strictly require you to see your destination and could be used to evacuate to a safer spot before doing anything else, then use a familliar or humonculi to help unbind you assuming the vhuman cabal did not go for them first.
Arcane eye can cheat the sight requirement assuming you have a non-concentration spell ready.
Freedom of movement is specifically designed to help you in this exact situation but you would need to use a wish spell to replicate it, and might not even fully work given the nature of the restraints
Disintegrate will get rid of either the restraints or blindfold but is also massive overkill for the situation
Fireball or fire bolt could work were it not for the stipulation of "not being work or carried", plus sight
Meteor swarm can damage objects regardless of if they are being worn or not, so if you are confident in your damage tolerance it might be a worthwhile gambit for your life
Mordekinen's sword could probably be used in conjunction with using your action to see through your familliar and your bonus action to attack using the blade
I might have forgotten about material components...
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Answer: There actually is a way he can win but to do so the wizard needs to not only have a bad build while the fighter has an optimized build but also the wizard and fighter would need horrible and amazing luck respectively.
As with the “People keep mentioning fighter builds and subclasses” well the reason is to have a productive discussion one must give and take ideas like certain builds, feats, combos, and subclasses.
Answer: You got the right idea but in this optimized battle just being a divination wizard isn’t enough (at least for me) so for most of any build the Chronurgist is usually better but tbh they are both great along with some of the other subclasses the wizard has. As for Polymorph/PWK that combo (although good against others) is not good against the fighter as he has access not only to Indomitable but lucky and other features/abilities. While Forcecage/sickening is proven to be lethal to most if not all creatures (specialized fighter builds too!).
Additionally, as for the other options teleport, simulacrum/wish and etc it just goes to show that the wizard has an overwhelming advantage not only in utility, capability, variability and most of all adaptability.
Answer: Even without initiative boosting feats (items are a no go) the wizard can still defeat the fighter in initiative or in other forms. As with an optimized fighter vs the optimized wizard the odds are at LEAST 1 - 100 in the wizards favour.
Answer: Yes the fighter has the deck stacked against him though tbh it’s more like the game was rigged from the start. As for “People keep mentioning fighter builds and subclasses” that’s just part of the give and take of discussion. The most viable fighter subclasses are the Eldritch Knight (then in descending order), Arcane Archer, Samurai/Echo Knight, then Battle Master as for all the others they aren’t good enough to be mentioned in this discussion (I haven’t seen any builds/features that give the other subclasses any profound merits).
Answer: Chronurgist tbh (I feel) is just better than divination though Chronurgist, Divination, Abjuration and etc are all good subclasses. As for Polymorph/PWK, the Polymorph isn’t that good since fighter has Indomitable while the Forcecage/Sickening radiance is really good though an EK and echo knight can attempt to escape the cage. And yes the wizard has many ways and spells to completely outmatch the fighter.
Answer: Ok first of all magic items are a no go, second wizard can get alert also, third divination can still alter his or your (the wizard’s initiative), lucky is also a thing (though fighter can take it) and so is the Chronurgist, and War Magic (Int to Initiative). But yeah anyway...
There's a lot of quibbling over initiative in this thread, but what a Fighter really needs isn't to go first from a standing face-off; when they really want to strike is when the Wizard is settling down for a long rest after burning through most of their spell slots.
Because the biggest problem with this kind of theory crafting is that aside from classes being balanced towards being part of a party rather than fighting each other, most martial classes are about longevity; casters can be a lot stronger so long as their resources hold out, but once they run low their options become more and more limited. While a high level wizard gets cantrips and some other stuff they can use all the time, once they've lost some of their most broken tricks things aren't so stacked in their favour. Meanwhile, all else being equal (both had a chance to short rest) a Fighter is basically just as effective at the end of a day as they were at the start of it, whereas a Wizard that cast too many spells early on needs a long rest.
You also get the issue that as you expand it out the balance changes dramatically; what's true of a 1v1 fight isn't going to necessarily be true of a 2v2, or a 4-way deathmatch and so-on.
So I dunno, it's a bit of a weird thing to discuss in the first place; if you're assuming a straight up duel with both parties at full strength to start then of course the high level Wizard will win 90% of the time, but you're talking about a fight that massively stacks the odds in favour of the Wizard to begin with, because the strength of a Fighter isn't just what they can do during hour 1 of the adventuring day, it's what they can do at hour 24+, when they're dragging the spent rest of the party behind them on a stretcher while fighting off the 50th wave of goblins. 😄
And lastly, why level 20? Why not level 1? The higher the level (which most campaigns will never reach), the more the odds are stacked in the wizard's favour, because they have access to more and more broken combos of high level spells. But compare at level 5 (which nearly every campaign will actually go through) and the situation is completely different; while a Wizard at that level still has a few tricks, they're also able to easily run out of resources in a single fight if they're not careful.
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The first post was about 20 v 20 and yeah we have discussed earlier levels and I agree a fighter has a much better chance at lower levels.
Overall it's not like 5e is designed for PvP.... especially late level where casters always will dominate.
True, though it's still an issue of timing as much as class "strength", i.e- what scenario actually represents a fair fight here?
Both characters at full strength at the start of a day absolutely heavily favours the caster, because they have all their resources at their disposal, but if they duel mid way through the day after half the Wizard's spell slots are gone that's another matter, as even a level 20 wizard will start to lose options, whereas the Fighter is basically still at full strength except for their small number of long rest abilities such as Indomitable, and the fighter can still be at basically full strength at the end of the day long after the Wizard has spent every slot they have.
It's kind of like asking which dragon would win in a fight, but then staging the fight in one of the dragon's lairs.
A more fair comparison would probably be to look at multiple rounds, i.e- if one is reduced to 0 hp or dies that's a win for the other, then both short rest from 0 hp and start the next round. Of course it'd take longer to work out, but I'm kind of curious where the theoretical tipping point is when the fighter's consistency starts to edge out of the wizard's initial advantage.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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Here's why I'm so adamant on my position: There was a PvP event held at a gaming store where all my AL friends played. These guys are all power gamers deep into optimization. The winner? A samurai with black razor, alert, mounted combatant (nightmare mount) scorpion armor, maxed out con, lucky, GWM, and a fire giant belt. Now, you had sorcadins and wizards and lvl 20 pure druids all with their staffs of the arch magis, but the guy who came out on top was a purebred fighter.
Granted, the pvp event was in the style of an arena battle royale, and this may not be the best set up for determining who'd win, but none of those players were pushovers, that I can say with absolute certainty and more so after playing in a variety of online AL communities during the pandemic.
Point being, I have seen proof of a fighter beating the odds. That's more than most can say
this is probably an important note to consider, dungeons and dragons is meant to be an collaborative storytelling experience, PvE rather than pvp. A fully rested wizard may be able to defeat a fully rested fighter if both are 20th level, but at the same time if a tarrasque awakens, an covert cult is summoning fiends in in the middle of highly populated cities or an evil vampire lord plots to take over the world a 20th level fighter and a 20th level wizard would be much better at neutralizing the threat than a pair of either, especially when it comes to making your spell slots last over several encounters as the fighter's recharing resources lift the burden of the wizard for use of their precious spell slots, letting them have more left over for casting valuable utillity spells.
Situations where a player has to fight a fellow player should be rare (and preferably discussed beforehand out of character) and optimizing your character to excell at such situations is not really a good idea.
Also find it amusing how Haravikk is using #v# to mean "a certain number of people fighting a certain number of other people" while Grimus is using it to mean levels becuase it sound like the perfectly reasonable and optimal setup here is 20 fighters duking it out with 20 wizards (something that would somehow stack the deck even more in favour of the wizards as they can now use resources more efficiently and use more concentration spells)
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
How many level 1 wizards would it take to take down a level 20 fighter?
Vice versa?
ANSWER: I took the points from this and answered them though if I missed something do tell I’ll address it later perhaps.
Point 1: This game is for party play not PvP.
Answer: True it is a game that focuses on the team aspect of the party and is ill suited for PvP combat as spell casters at around like 5th (and sometimes lower in the wizards case) just absolutely surpass all that the fighter can do without an abundant amount of magic items.
Point 2: Why so much talk of initiative.
Answer: Well the thing is if a wizard has prep time or in this case is the first to act his spells make him almost untouchable especially if he is the first to cast I.e winning initiative.
Point 3: Fighters are for longevity/attrition battles.
Answer: Quite true... ish because well there are NOVA build built for exactly that big burst damage like most samurai, and certain EK build (along with others). Though still if we were to do an arena battle to see how long it would take for the fighter to defeat the wizard that day would still never come since if during a the 10th match and the wizard is like “darn I can’t one shot of save or suck spell him anymore he can just cast any type of conjure spell (teleport, demiplane, whatever) wait it out then come back full power against the fighter (who also probably took a long rest) and since full power fighter vs wizard the wizard wins the wizard can just win for as long as he needs to. Though the wizard could just go into his demiplane then through a combination of wish, simulacrum, true polymorph, and magic jar become a permanent gold dragon with all of my class levels and now newly acquired dragon abilities.
Point 4: Why not lvl 1v1, 3v3, 5v5, or lvls 11v11... etc?
Answer: In a 1v1 (level 1 vs level 1) it it fully determined by who gets their first attack to hit because there are spells that would just insta knock out the fighter (like sleep or a damage spell for a reliable easy knock out spell for example) while the fighter needs to go first and one shot the wizard which I find decently hard to do so even then if the wizard just prepares against that with say investing in con and dex while being a Vumen to get lucky he could reliable win say like 80% of the battles. As for third level a Chronurgist or divination wizard to go first kinda just wins with his spell selection and this goes on all the way up to level 20.
Point 5: Fighters will dominate early levels...
Answer: Yes and No. Yes as in he has many short rest abilities but also the wizard has arcane recovery and rituals spells plus cantrips (prestidigitation, firebolt, and etc). So yeah...
Point 6: Would a pair of lvl 20 fighter wizard be better than wizard/wizard or fighter/fighter?
Answer: I’d rather have two wizards than a fighter/wizard or fighter/fighter as two wizards are just that good.
Point 7: As for how many level 1 wizards would it take to take down a level 20 fighter? Vice versa?
Answer: I think it would take approximately like 20 level one wizards (mind they are all working together and have a strategy) as I could see that much defeating if not majorly wounding a level 20 fighter (provided he isn’t a pure tank build high AC/Survivor build made just to talk the hits then one shot the flimsy like 6hp wizard). As for vice versa (lvl 20 wizard) the fighters have no chance game over unless then can fight the wizards geruilla tactics and infinite resources as he could just back off if he used up all his spells (fireball, etc) as all he would need is a fireball to kill the fighters (though of course he would not get to cocky against the thousands of fighters) as for the fighters strategy they would need to have all longbows and be variant humans for the extra feat to try and even touch the wizard (this is barring wish from just being like “I win”) though of course the wizard could just be an Aaracokra then cast invulnerability or some long lasting radius damage spell or whatever to just win (possibilities are endless).
P.S: Sorry for the extreme length of this post...
MAGES HATE THEM:
Learn how a team of 5-7 1st level characters defeated a 20th level character with ONE SIMPLE TRICK
let's start from the bottom. Being pinned to the ground underneath a 9 foot diameter boulder is not exactly the best situation to be in for any character, especially a wizard. Being unable to freely move your hands somatic components become impossible to produce, and with either the large boulder or the soil possibly covering your mouth so too might verbal components be difficult.
Now how would a character happen to find themselves under a 9 foot diameter bouler (or any large piece of rock for that matter)? Becuase it was flung at them using a siege engine, specifically a trebuchet (rules for whom are found in the dungeon master's guide). The weapon may deal an pitiful 8d10 points of bludgeoning damage, not nearly enough to kill any 20th level character unless that person has like a con score of 6, but it does not have to, it merely has to pin the wizard under a rock where they would struggle to produce spell components and then let the wizard slowly suffocate to death.
It is by no means an 100% percent reliable strategy, seeing as to the amount of preparation it requires and as to how it requires an unwitting wizard to be in the same general location for a while and for you to know in advance (something that would defenetly be an logistical hurdle with the amount of teleportation spells such a high level wizard might have acess to, not to mention the possibility of them having a simulacrum or humonculi that does business on their behalf while they remain in their lairs that wizards are so great at defending) it is still very much within the realm of possibility for a non ludicris amount of fighters to accomplish.
If cumbersome siege engines will not do then a small group of unarmed fighting focused fighters (preferably Unarmed Fighting or Superior technique fighting styles with each one using Custom Lineage + Skilled expert so that grappling modifiers are as high as they can be) can attempt to neutralize the spellcasting of a wizard, a pair or two go for each arm to prevent somatic components while another fighter does in to prevent them from making any noise, and badabing badaboom you are now fighting a restrained and unarmed commoner who just so happens to have a lot of hit points (does rely on already being within melee range of a wizard and beating them in initiative which is a long shot, but again possible). If a wizard cannot utter a single word let alone the very exact noises and pitches that spells require the fact that he knows wish is irrelevant. With a little bit of creativity, hard work and most importantly an extremely large amount of rope anything is possible.
Most "feasible" build for defeating a wizard with conventional firepower using a lot of 1st level fighters would be sharpshooter + superior technique (quick toss) + darts seemingly, as it allows for up to like 2d4 + 1d6 + 24 points of damage per fighter in the first round before they all get killed, potentially more if any of these attacks happens to be a critical hit, meaning that if a lot of these hit (with +0 to hit mind you) allowing potentially four to five of them to get the job done, if we get redundant and say like a dozen or more fighters are using this strat, well eventiually some attacks will hit right?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
That's why the trick is to not let them know you're fighting them until after you've started fighting them; one of the best weapons in any adventurer's toolkit is the surprise round if you can set one up 😉
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Alert feat for the wizard fixes that.
I gotta be honest the Trebuchet Ambush Fighter Squad™ is an amazingly... funny and niche idea that was quite amusing tbh.
As for practicality it is as you say not only would you need time, resources, bait (for wizard), Surprise him/win initiative and have the wizard do nothing as the rock is flung towards him to but then also you would need the rock to perfectly bury the wizard (inhibiting his movements: Incapacitated/Restrained) to stop him from moving.
Now as for the holding his arms and mouth to stop them from forming spell components is already hard as not only do you need to get within melee but also succeed on holding both his arms and his mouth and make it so he can’t get out because if he can form verbal components he could cast Misty Step and just teleport 30ft.
So I guess your best bet in this scenario is to grab some chains (Hold Arms), a gag (Stop Speaking), and a blindfold (Stop Sight Spells) for extra restrictions and help for locking down the wizards spellcasting but this all goes down the drain when you realize (like OptimusGrimus said) the wizard can just pick up Alert to stop from being Ambushed like at all and/or picking up Metamagic Adept for good old Subtle Magic so you can just bypass Somatic and Verbal spell components.
P.S: If you were fighting a real level 20 Wizard you wouldn’t even be fighting him you would be fighting his simulacrum who has contingency but even say you were he would already have every preparation complete so much so you would have lost even before you knew you were going to even fight him but now lets say you do fight than kill him not only does the wizard comeback to life (via clone) locked in his impenetrable fortress deep within his secret room behind the large cask of wine within the fortresses cellar of which is protected by all manner of spells, runes, glyphs, wards, magic items, golems, and traps, monsters and so forth.
But of course this room is merely set within his own compact Demiplane filled with so much tricks and magic it’s a wonder the Demiplane doesn’t explode.
Though of course that wizard is probably also secretly an ancient gold dragon after using simulacrum, magic jar and true polymorph, to become a extremely overpowered dragon who also probably has access to true immortality. Well that was a rant...
i do not think this particular combination would work as it relies on a lot of assumptions:
1) that a similacrum is considered to have a challenge rating or a level (a little shaky premise but could be argued)
2) that your similacrum is considered to be a CR 24 creature or a creature with 24 levels (something that is nessesary to transform something into an ancient gold dragon, both of those assumptions are kind of absurd seeing as to how YOU are neither 24th level or CR 24)
3) that an ancient gold dragon using the change shape action to temporarily assume the form of a humanoid makes it a elligible target for Magic Jar, something that seems a bit silly, yes it technically would use the creature type of the creature it is turing into but that thing is still a dragon no matter what, it is still considered to have a "true form". Like it just does not quite feel right for it to work that way.
(two side notes: yes you could use a non-CR 24 stat block such as an Adult Gold Dragon and get mostly the same result and we should also mention that you would need to spend a lot of days trying to make this spell work seeing as to how it only has a 10% chance for the dragon to fail a saving throw, but time is not really an issue when you can live forever)
yeah i fully agree to this, those are some of the "logicstical hurdles" i mentioned and fully getting rid of a wizard would more or less require several nations going to war with them
the blindfold is a little redundant as there is no way for a wizard to cast spells with nothing but their eyeballs (unless subtle spell is involved but we'll get to that), yeah it is handy but also a bit unnecessary
as for the Alert feat it does make you immune to surprise, it in no way shape or form makes you immune to rolling poorly for your initiative roll and going last in spite of that, plus it is not lite every single 20th level wizard is going to have Alert, it's a nice feat but it is not at all really nessesary for most builds nor does it mesh with your other class features the way some other feats might (but then again maybe if there was this strange cabal of seemingly infinite 1st level variant human fighters mostly using ambush tactics that were out to get you, maybe a lot more wizard would choose Alert as their 19th level feat choice)
As for Metamagic Adept sort of the same thing applies, is every single wizard going to choose that specific feat? And if they do, will all of them choose silent spell specifically? That specific metamagic option can be good for a more socially focused character, perhaps an enchantment or illusion specialist, and it is sometimes very helpful to have against casters who know counterspell or if you often find yourself in situations when you are denied the abillity to use spell components, but other metamagics are also very appealing, and so are other feats. It is the sort of effect that will be extremely useful in certain contexts, but redundant in others, and unless you are expecting to regularly be attacked by the cabal it is not likely that you happen to have just the right metamagic option for this
(then again it is also unlikely that there is a cabal of 1st level variant human fighters who all just happen to want to desperately kill a 20th level wizard, depends on the premises and how you interpret the initial question and how much the concept of "fairness" applies in such an absurd matchup such as this)
speaking of rather unlikely builds and ways to optimize for this specific kind of scenario, i present to you absurd fighter team 2: "yeehaw" tyler and the lads:
Tyler himself would be variant human/ custom linneage, 16 dex, Lucky feat, Superior technique (ambush) and weilding a net
"the lads" on the other hand would also be variant human/ custom linneage, 16 dex, this time with Sharpshooter, superior technique (quick toss) and weilding either just darts or maybe even a longbow + darts (let's say we have about 19 of them)
in a combat scenario, the groups objective would be to kill the wizard before the start of their turn such that the wizard does not have a chance to use any proper spells against them, each of the lads can make two attacks, each a pitiful +0 to hit but dealing a whopping 17.5 points of damage on average for an initial attack with a longbow and 19 for the second attack using Quck Toss, with tyler making his net attack as early as possible to make shure the lads all attack with advantage (lucky feat turns the disadvantage using the net into super-advantage and also helps win initiative). The strategy would become unreliable if the target happens to always be using mage armor and also happens to keep shield prepared (not per se garanteed but far more common than probably every other thing i have mentioned, many wizards do this) or if they happen to specialize in initiative-boosting effects, but becomes way more reliable if they happen to sucessfully ambush the wizard.
(thought of the last one on a whim and decided to share i guess)
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Answer: Probably should went in more depth on the combo... but it does work. Spells are: Simulacrum, True Polymorph, Magic Jar, and probably Wish as it would be pretty expensive (probably not to a level 20 character but still).
Part 1: As for if “a similacrum is considered to have a challenge rating or a level (a little shaky premise but could be argued),” since a simulacrum is a “normal creature” and the simulacrum adopts my statistics except for the few exceptions in the spell (I.e. doesn’t regain my resources). So as the simulacrum now has my statistics for all intents and purposes it is me or otherwise known as a level 20 Wizard.
Part 2: Now for the point of me/my simulacrum not being “a CR 24 creature or a creature with 24 levels (something that is necessary to transform something into an ancient gold dragon, both of those assumptions are kind of absurd seeing as to how YOU are neither 24th level or CR 24).” well I was under the assumption you would become an ancient gold dragon though aging (i.e. not immediately) by just polymorphing into an adult gold dragon then just waiting but yeah I already know about the CR restriction and then again I probably should have explained the combo more...
Part 3: Finally as for “using the change shape action to temporarily assume the form of a humanoid makes it a elligible target for Magic Jar, something that seems a bit silly,” While I do acknowledge your grievance I don’t see it that way as I think it is something that kinda does make sense as the vessel must be like you (humanoid) to avoid problems in the transfer but there are many ways to justify it in your campaign if you felt that it didn’t feel like “right” to do so but a it goes it can be done. As for the Side Notes imma just put them with Part 3, of Answer 1. For the 1st side note yes the adult dragon is the same thing and that means technically you could age up to be CR 24 (discounting what your spellcasting potentially adds to your CR) and that means by becoming CR 24 you could if you wanted do this again and choose a CR 21-24 monster (preferably one that grows in CR when aging so you could try to up the CR till you can just become for example like a Spell Casting Tarrasque or something). As for failing the saving throw did you know if you want a character can choose to fail a saving throw so magic jar could 100% take the simul-dragon form every time.
P.S: as for magic jar couldn’t you just Polymorph a not humanoid temporarily into a humanoid to then use magic jar to inhabit the vessel.
Answer: ABSOLUTELY, PREP WIZARD IS BEST WIZARD... but yeah in all seriousness a wizard with prep, knowledge, and the brains to make it work along with his trusty spellbook/s is practically unstoppable (even the gods fear the might wizard haha).
Answer: This probably will be in some Parts too.
Part 1: Well is the blindfold ”a little redundant” because “there is no way for a wizard to cast spells with nothing but their eyeballs” in a way yes but in others no but a blindfold also means his attacks are at disadvantage among also being unable to see and this is only compounded by a he fact it makes all attacks against the wizard at advantage so it not really unnecessary.
Part 2: Ahh now it’s Alert while it does stop surprise while giving +5 to Dex among other bonuses. Also never said that it “makes you immune to rolling poorly for your initiative roll and going last” but that’s nether here nor there as both Divination (Portent x3), and Chronurgy (Chronal Shift works and Convergent Future works I’d argue/have argued). But yeah in reality (of which this battle is not as I doubt the Vumen Fight Cabal exist in most campaigns) most wizards wouldn’t have alert unless paranoid (or just want some extra prep) or wanting that extra protection against assassination say from a Thief Guild he angered awhile back or something like that.
Part 3: As for Metamagic Adept of course not everyone will have it but I wouldn’t be surprised if some wizards were born with an aptitude for Metamagic but decided to study or were studying and uncovered their Metamagic power only to continue while incorporating it into their style or perhaps an Archmage reveals this power only to realize he is to past the point of Turing back and just uses it to add some flair to his already vast magical ability.
As for subtle spell and social encounters sure it’s amazing but in combat I’d argue it’s potential is amazing.
Part 4: But yeah as for fantasy reality’s sake it is quite “unlikely that there is a cabal of 1st level variant human fighters who all just happen to want to desperately kill a 20th level wizard.” Sooo... yeah.
Answer: More Parts... this is a lot of words...
Part 1: Ah yes finally challenger 2 not only do we have the great and venerable Trebuchet Ambush Fighter Squad™“ but we also now have the almighty Cowboy Tyler’s Dart Lads™ (yeehaw) in the mix. Welp.
Part 2: Now as for the +0 hit yeah not the best odds especially if the wizard has mage armor and/or is a high Dex/high Con build used for survival or even a high initiative to go first (also having shield is also very good).
Part 3: As for the Net I think a blindfold hold (hand over eyes holding head grapple) is as good if not better among other things but that is just me so yeah.
Anyways that was a lot do tell if I didn’t address something or whatever.
Say in the Level 20 Fighter vs Level 20 Wizard matchup the only practical strategies so far the fighter can employ are:
Stop spellcasting (usable by any type of build) via, Hold arms, Gag, Blindfold, and pummeling the wizard before he can get out. This strategy is destroyed by ether the wizard getting to cast or subtle spell. Although the blindfold can shut the wizard down a lot (Blinded Condition) and the ability to no longer use sight spells (is HUGE) for the fighter. The stop spellcasting is mostly stopped by just getting metamagic adept subtle spell.
Hold person EK build by holding then mass criting the wizard. The EK’s counter is the wizard being a satyr as Hold Person can’t stop him by virtue of having a Fey creature type so the EK is left with a paltry hideous laughter (only being able to stop the wizard form getting a turn... maybe).
Arcane Archer (Aasimer) multi banish build to stack damage though large amount of attacks. The AA’s counter is a Chronurgist as he has Convergent Future to just win on the banish.
And last but not least is just a plain nova build that can hopefully average (on all hits) around 300 damage. Top Nova builds are EK Hold, Samuri/Echo multi-attack, GWM/SS builds and/or an Elven Accuracy type build. The Nova’s Counter is a high initiative and/or high AC/HP build to be able to rank most of all of the attacks.
So my questions is there anyway the fighter can get past the following: Satyr Tank (High Dex/Con) Chronurgist, With Metamagic Adept: Subtle Spell. So the real question is can the fighter get past subtle spell also how does time stop and being grappled work can you get out of the grapple even though you can’t affect the grappler without timestop being messed with.
So is it possible to stop a wizard by holding an opaque bag over his head (Blindfold) even when the wizard has subtle spell since seemingly even with time stop you can’t effect the fighter grapple/blindfold technique, or is there another spell (since I’m just going off the top of my head) that can help the wizard out in this situation?
I’ve been thinking in what way can a wizard get out of being blindfolded (bag overhead/Blindness), Gagged (no verbal components), and their hands/arms held (stopping somatic/most material components) assuming the wizard has subtle spell. What spell or feature can the wizard use to get out of such a situation? Keep in mind since he is blindfolded, and has his arms held he can’t cast spells that require sight or use material components (can’t access them unless his is holding them but this is assuming he can still use it) while the wizard must use subtle spell to bypass the gag/bound arms.
Alter Self....just become a different enough shape for the gags to fall off...or grow fangs and bite the gag off.
Etheralness
Answer: Well I guess you could alter then bite the gag off but that would take up your turn (casting Alter Self) then your next turn (biting the gag off). So not that plausible.
Answer: That’s a hard one to get past as the only way to get past that spell is by incapacitation because you can use it even without sight, or it’s verbal/somatic components because of subtle spell. So the best bet to stop that would be hold person or hideous laughter (Incapacitate).
So I guess the best build right now is weird EK Nova build using hideous laughter to get another turn to attack the wizard.
Dimension door does not strictly require you to see your destination and could be used to evacuate to a safer spot before doing anything else, then use a familliar or humonculi to help unbind you assuming the vhuman cabal did not go for them first.
Arcane eye can cheat the sight requirement assuming you have a non-concentration spell ready.
Freedom of movement is specifically designed to help you in this exact situation but you would need to use a wish spell to replicate it, and might not even fully work given the nature of the restraints
Disintegrate will get rid of either the restraints or blindfold but is also massive overkill for the situation
Fireball or fire bolt could work were it not for the stipulation of "not being work or carried", plus sight
Meteor swarm can damage objects regardless of if they are being worn or not, so if you are confident in your damage tolerance it might be a worthwhile gambit for your life
Mordekinen's sword could probably be used in conjunction with using your action to see through your familliar and your bonus action to attack using the blade
I might have forgotten about material components...
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes