Can anyone help me here? What do I roll for a ‘tinkerer’s tools check’ to fix my gun?
That's correct, here's the relevant section of the rules on D&D Beyond (under Gunsmith):
Misfire. Whenever you make an attack roll with a firearm, and the dice roll is equal to or lower than the weapon’s Misfire score, the weapon misfires. The attack misses, and the weapon cannot be used again until you spend an action to try and repair it. To repair your firearm, you must make a successful Tinker’s Tools check (DC equal to 8 + misfire score). If your check fails, the weapon is broken and must be mended out of combat at a quarter of the cost of the firearm. Creatures who use a firearm without being proficient increase the weapon’s misfire score by 1.
So a more reliable firearm with Misfire (1) only has a DC of 9, Misfire (2) is DC of 10 etc., so they're pretty easy checks to pass, the cost is really losing your action to do it, you generally just want to make sure you have a spare weapon handy.
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My problem is that I don’t know what to roll. It just says ‘tinker’s tool check’, I can’t find out what that is. I’ve tried looking in the Tools rules, tried looking at Tinker’s Tools themselves, nothin’.
My problem is that I don’t know what to roll. It just says ‘tinker’s tool check’, I can’t find out what that is. I’ve tried looking in the Tools rules, tried looking at Tinker’s Tools themselves, nothin’.
Ah, yeah the tools rules in 5e are a bit vague; your DM picks an ability score that's relevant to what you're doing.
Personally for repair/unjamming, I'd call for a Dexterity (tinker's tools) check, so the roll would be 1d20 + your Dexterity modifier + your proficiency bonus (for tinker's tools proficiency). Whereas for crafting I might use either that or Intelligence (tinker's tools) for crafting or such.
It's up to your DM really but Dexterity is the most obvious unless you're working with a homebrew cannon that might be better as Strength.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I'm a bit confused as to why grit points are determined by Wisdom when nothing else about fighters relate to Wisdom and it's one of the most common dump stats for fighters (after intelligence).
I'm a bit confused as to why grit points are determined by Wisdom when nothing else about fighters relate to Wisdom and it's one of the most common dump stats for fighters (after intelligence).
Its not exactly unusual for a sub-class to use a secondary stat to power sub-class abilities. The Eldritch Knight and Psi-Warrior sub-classes use Intelligence after all.
My guess is that its partly flavour - Wisdom representing determination and willpower - and partly balance: You may not want a sub-class to require too many ability scores, which would make it hard to play effectively, but its also important to avoid "One Stat to Rule them All"!
Looks like only a handful of the more recent fighter subclasses are available for the character builder. But otherwise if you don't mind doing things manually it shouldn't be a problem. Wonder what it would take to homebrew it for 2024.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
There are 3 archetypes listed. Like the Fighter class, Do you only get to choose one?
"Firearm proficiency" seems like something you should get free as a fighter. They're prof. with everything else. I'm not sure just adding your Prof. bonus to your damage is good for an archetype. More maybe? It does penalize not being prof. by increasing your misfire score by 1.
Under "Firearms Properties" there's an Ammunition section. It says you can use your Tinker's tools to make ammo at half cost. The Gunsmith archetype also says you can do that but also gives you proficiency with those tools. Do you need prof. to make discount ammo? Are you rolling at disadvantage if you're not prof. with the tools for repairs?
"Gunsmith" only seems to grant the ability to create new firearms. If I'm reading right. The rules under "Firearm properties", separate from Gunsmith, seems to handle what that Archetype grants. Misfire allows repair of firearms. Ammunition grants making ammo at half the cost.
Is there a firearms feat? I don't see one in the 2024 list.
Under "Adept Marksman" there are several features granted at certain levels. Quickdraw at level 7, for example. Are those features only available for those who choose AM? Or are they available regardless of the archetype you choose? Maybe throw in a clarification if they are universal. I'm assuming every other level, like 1-6, are taken from the fighter class? For example at level 5, you get extra attack.
I realize these rules are new and not official but someone needs to go through them again with a fresh set of eyes. People who don't use Beyond or the character sheet could be confused.
There are 3 archetypes listed. Like the Fighter class, Do you only get to choose one?
"Firearm proficiency" seems like something you should get free as a fighter. They're prof. with everything else. I'm not sure just adding your Prof. bonus to your damage is good for an archetype. More maybe? It does penalize not being prof. by increasing your misfire score by 1.
Under "Firearms Properties" there's an Ammunition section. It says you can use your Tinker's tools to make ammo at half cost. The Gunsmith archetype also says you can do that but also gives you proficiency with those tools. Do you need prof. to make discount ammo? Are you rolling at disadvantage if you're not prof. with the tools for repairs?
"Gunsmith" only seems to grant the ability to create new firearms. If I'm reading right. The rules under "Firearm properties", separate from Gunsmith, seems to handle what that Archetype grants. Misfire allows repair of firearms. Ammunition grants making ammo at half the cost.
Is there a firearms feat? I don't see one in the 2024 list.
Under "Adept Marksman" there are several features granted at certain levels. Quickdraw at level 7, for example. Are those features only available for those who choose AM? Or are they available regardless of the archetype you choose? Maybe throw in a clarification if they are universal. I'm assuming every other level, like 1-6, are taken from the fighter class? For example at level 5, you get extra attack.
I realize these rules are new and not official but someone needs to go through them again with a fresh set of eyes. People who don't use Beyond or the character sheet could be confused.
I think a good bit of your confusion seems to be stemming from the misconception that this is a class with multiple archetypes. It isn't; it's a single subclass/archetype for the Fighter class. There are not multiple archetypes within it to choose from. The features that start with "when you choose this archetype at 3rd level" are not each a separate archetype. The archetype they are all referring to is the Gunslinger archetype you're looking at.
But, to answer your questions in order:
1. This is a subclass for the Fighter class. It is not three archetypes; it is one archetype, which is the old term for a Fighter subclass. You only get to choose one subclass.
2. This subclass was written for the 2014 rules, where firearms were a special category of weapons outside the normal simple and martial categories, and proficiency with them needed to be granted by a separate feature.
3. Any Fighter with this subclass has proficiency with Tinker's Tools. This feature is what lets them craft ammunition at half cost, as well as repair or craft firearms. Not having this feature means you can't do those things, unless the DM allows it separately.
4. There are no feats related to firearms in the 2024 rules (so far). There is an unrelated feat called "Gunner" in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, but its benefits are largely either duplicative of or incompatible with this third-party subclass, which wasn't really intended to be used in conjunction with it.
5. "Adept Marksman" is a feature that this archetype grants at third level; it's not something you can choose. Anyone who takes this subclass has this feature (as well as all the higher-level features described within it).
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That's correct, here's the relevant section of the rules on D&D Beyond (under Gunsmith):
So a more reliable firearm with Misfire (1) only has a DC of 9, Misfire (2) is DC of 10 etc., so they're pretty easy checks to pass, the cost is really losing your action to do it, you generally just want to make sure you have a spare weapon handy.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
My problem is that I don’t know what to roll. It just says ‘tinker’s tool check’, I can’t find out what that is. I’ve tried looking in the Tools rules, tried looking at Tinker’s Tools themselves, nothin’.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
Ah, yeah the tools rules in 5e are a bit vague; your DM picks an ability score that's relevant to what you're doing.
Personally for repair/unjamming, I'd call for a Dexterity (tinker's tools) check, so the roll would be 1d20 + your Dexterity modifier + your proficiency bonus (for tinker's tools proficiency). Whereas for crafting I might use either that or Intelligence (tinker's tools) for crafting or such.
It's up to your DM really but Dexterity is the most obvious unless you're working with a homebrew cannon that might be better as Strength.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Damn, I suppose that’s fair enough. Ima ask my dm to make it either a dex or wisdom check, cause wisdom is the score Gunslinger uses for some reason.
Thank you.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
I'm a bit confused as to why grit points are determined by Wisdom when nothing else about fighters relate to Wisdom and it's one of the most common dump stats for fighters (after intelligence).
Signature:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=18
Its not exactly unusual for a sub-class to use a secondary stat to power sub-class abilities. The Eldritch Knight and Psi-Warrior sub-classes use Intelligence after all.
My guess is that its partly flavour - Wisdom representing determination and willpower - and partly balance: You may not want a sub-class to require too many ability scores, which would make it hard to play effectively, but its also important to avoid "One Stat to Rule them All"!
So is this subclass just not avaliable for 2024 Fighter? I thought 2024 was backwards compatible?
Looks like only a handful of the more recent fighter subclasses are available for the character builder. But otherwise if you don't mind doing things manually it shouldn't be a problem. Wonder what it would take to homebrew it for 2024.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
You fell for the bait and switch tactic WOTC employed.
First, I'm assuming this is the page that this thread is referring to : The Gunslinger Class for Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) Fifth Edition (5e) - D&D Beyond. Second, some questions?
There are 3 archetypes listed. Like the Fighter class, Do you only get to choose one?
"Firearm proficiency" seems like something you should get free as a fighter. They're prof. with everything else. I'm not sure just adding your Prof. bonus to your damage is good for an archetype. More maybe? It does penalize not being prof. by increasing your misfire score by 1.
Under "Firearms Properties" there's an Ammunition section. It says you can use your Tinker's tools to make ammo at half cost. The Gunsmith archetype also says you can do that but also gives you proficiency with those tools. Do you need prof. to make discount ammo? Are you rolling at disadvantage if you're not prof. with the tools for repairs?
"Gunsmith" only seems to grant the ability to create new firearms. If I'm reading right. The rules under "Firearm properties", separate from Gunsmith, seems to handle what that Archetype grants. Misfire allows repair of firearms. Ammunition grants making ammo at half the cost.
Is there a firearms feat? I don't see one in the 2024 list.
Under "Adept Marksman" there are several features granted at certain levels. Quickdraw at level 7, for example. Are those features only available for those who choose AM? Or are they available regardless of the archetype you choose? Maybe throw in a clarification if they are universal. I'm assuming every other level, like 1-6, are taken from the fighter class? For example at level 5, you get extra attack.
I realize these rules are new and not official but someone needs to go through them again with a fresh set of eyes. People who don't use Beyond or the character sheet could be confused.
We are all in danger!
I think a good bit of your confusion seems to be stemming from the misconception that this is a class with multiple archetypes. It isn't; it's a single subclass/archetype for the Fighter class. There are not multiple archetypes within it to choose from. The features that start with "when you choose this archetype at 3rd level" are not each a separate archetype. The archetype they are all referring to is the Gunslinger archetype you're looking at.
But, to answer your questions in order:
1. This is a subclass for the Fighter class. It is not three archetypes; it is one archetype, which is the old term for a Fighter subclass. You only get to choose one subclass.
2. This subclass was written for the 2014 rules, where firearms were a special category of weapons outside the normal simple and martial categories, and proficiency with them needed to be granted by a separate feature.
3. Any Fighter with this subclass has proficiency with Tinker's Tools. This feature is what lets them craft ammunition at half cost, as well as repair or craft firearms. Not having this feature means you can't do those things, unless the DM allows it separately.
4. There are no feats related to firearms in the 2024 rules (so far). There is an unrelated feat called "Gunner" in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, but its benefits are largely either duplicative of or incompatible with this third-party subclass, which wasn't really intended to be used in conjunction with it.
5. "Adept Marksman" is a feature that this archetype grants at third level; it's not something you can choose. Anyone who takes this subclass has this feature (as well as all the higher-level features described within it).
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