Is it true that 5e doesn't have standard rules to make charges anymore? It's just limited to having the "Charger" Feat? If so, do you adhere to this rule? If you don't, what do you do instead?
You're correct that there isn't a standard combat option for charge and, if using the optional feats system, there is a feat called charger.
With regards to what people do instead - the focus in 5th edition is for much more streamlined combat. I've been playing D&D since the early/mid 80s myself and this is possibly the most fun edition of D&D for me, because combat flow is much better and the focus is on action & roleplay, rather than checking tables in books for bonuses & penalties.
Wait until you get to lances! they have become harder to use longer spears you poke people from on top of a mount. If you really want to make a charge a terrifying prospect you might want to take great weapon mastery and 'stylistically' employ it only after you make a charge. Thats about your lot I'm afraid.
Yikes, I think I really should've delved into this before dreaming of building a Cavalier because this makes that build really uninteresting (because I'll be using my Feats patching over omissions in the rules). I thought it was weird that Spears had the same 5ft range other weapons did but I had assumed it was a one-off oversight. It didn't even occur to me that something as absolutely foundational to combat as "rushing at the enemy to attack them with the benefit of momentum" could be removed from the base game. I'm not sure if I can live with that, I think I'll hit up my DM about it.
I have a grumble about that answer Stormknight. Some weapons do still have unique (mechanical?) rules, On top of that monsters have many unique weapons - which by the rules players cant use (or at least are not proficient with) The issue with the lance isnt so much about momentum rules, its about the nonsense that a man on a horse for example can spin in his saddle and poke someone with his lance whilst the horse is grazing and do exactly as much damage as if he held his action for his mounts movement to take him into range of a target and struck it going 80' in one round. It wouldnt have been hard to just apply something like a minotaur charge ability and have it deal 2die damage but as it stands its weird to have a weapon with special rules - the lance has disadvantage to hit in 5' - but not only have no benefit to charging with it but allows it to be used in melee on a horse, one armed whilst the horse is parked with the same effect!
Mat - there is a cavalier subclass for fighters- I think (not certain) its from the sword coast adventurers guide, that might help. At the moment 5th allows everyone to ride (no skill necessary) and the only 'just for mounted warriors' feats benefit is to allow the rider to simply refuse to let anyone to attack her, or his mount. The most common way this is utilised / taken advantage of is a halfling or other small creature on a medium mount and taking himself inside a dungeon - I recommend wolf spiders and a weird saddle so you can launch scuttly wall attacks. I hope you can bring your dream to a reality without having to give up too much or rewrite everything and will enjoy hearing about your adventures if you choose to share them, Have fun and enjoy 5th!
Agreed that some of the combat rules can be a little odd, like the lance.
To be clear, I don't work for Wizards of the Coast, however I was part of the closed playtest, so am aware of many of the design concepts that were shared by the game designers - one of those being to reduce the number of mechanical options available in combat (mostly so that the DM/players don't have to keep checking the book to see what the rules are every time someone tries something different).
Whether they have stuck to that or not, is another matter!
Thats fair enough - but if they wanted to do that removing lances and just flavour texting spear as a 'lance' and ignoring the range would have been better. Errata havent helped with needing less book / Digital checking, but that hasnt prevented errata not just clarifying but outright changing rules (new grapple rules automatic on incapacitated foes - its now easier to wrestle people who are hypnotised than stab them! (which... isnt right) Now when you cross that line? That would be when I would hope that things like lances would be altered or outright removed. - I am happy to 'blur the line' to make a players concept fit into a game if its reasonable, but if that player wants to play elsewhere then the problem is the character may not be allowed, thats frustrating and why I offered options that would hopefully capture Mat's imagination and allow him to play a cavalier and enjoy themselves within the framework the rules outline.
Mounted Combatant Feat: Since Lance assumes you are passing by your foe by at least 5 feet, a charge from horseback should not put you into a situation of an AoO unless the enemy has a reach weapon too. Your attack would always be with advantage
Lance vs. Spear vs. Pike: A lance's damage of d12 kind of assumes you are using momentum already. A pike is pretty much the same, just an infantry weapon (with d10 two handed. The two handed spear (without spear mastery) has slightly less mass (d8), but can at least be used in melee range. A pike should have no qualities in melee range and should be dropped.
Spear Mastery Feat: The Spear Mastery has the "set to receive a charge" ability, which should be extended to pikes as well.
War lances in medieval times were shorter than tournament lances (which most people imagine when thinking about lances). They should be considered "heavy" when dismounted, because their decent balance on horseback comes from special "hooks" on the breastplate of the mounted man-at-arms.
there is a cavalier subclass for fighters- I think (not certain) its from the sword coast adventurers guide, that might help. At the moment 5th allows everyone to ride (no skill necessary) and the only 'just for mounted warriors' feats benefit is to allow the rider to simply refuse to let anyone to attack her, or his mount. The most common way this is utilised / taken advantage of is a halfling or other small creature on a medium mount and taking himself inside a dungeon - I recommend wolf spiders and a weird saddle so you can launch scuttly wall attacks. I hope you can bring your dream to a reality without having to give up too much or rewrite everything and will enjoy hearing about your adventures if you choose to share them, Have fun and enjoy 5th!
I started playing a Half-Orc Fighter that I intend(ed) to develop into a Cavalier. I'll ask my DM if they're fine with some house ruling to make it actually function as a cavalier would. My compromise suggestion would probably be something like: - All characters can charge with melee weapons; they move double their Movement directly towards their target and get a bonus action to attack with (both no other bonuses unless they have Charger).
- Spears and other polearms can hit targets up to 10 feet away (two squares).
- The lance only does d12 base damage on a charge, and d8 otherwise. A rider is assumed to have a lance rest or similar, which lets them wield it with one arm while mounted.
Thank you for the tips, I'll keep it in mind for a future mounted character. For now, I'll see if my DM is up for tweaking the rules so my Fighter can make some amount of sense. Thank you all for clearing this issue up for me. Seems like an issue to remedy in D&D 5.5e, alongside others.
The only other lance thing that sometimes crept into older editions was the ability to use the mounts str mod instead of the riders if better. Good luck with your DM / houserule and enjoy 5th!
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Hey everyone,
Is it true that 5e doesn't have standard rules to make charges anymore? It's just limited to having the "Charger" Feat? If so, do you adhere to this rule? If you don't, what do you do instead?
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D&D Beyond FoundersHi there,
welcome to D&D Beyond!
You can read the Basic Rules for 5th edition D&D here for free:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules
You're correct that there isn't a standard combat option for charge and, if using the optional feats system, there is a feat called charger.
With regards to what people do instead - the focus in 5th edition is for much more streamlined combat. I've been playing D&D since the early/mid 80s myself and this is possibly the most fun edition of D&D for me, because combat flow is much better and the focus is on action & roleplay, rather than checking tables in books for bonuses & penalties.
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If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Wait until you get to lances! they have become harder to use longer spears you poke people from on top of a mount. If you really want to make a charge a terrifying prospect you might want to take great weapon mastery and 'stylistically' employ it only after you make a charge. Thats about your lot I'm afraid.
Yikes, I think I really should've delved into this before dreaming of building a Cavalier because this makes that build really uninteresting (because I'll be using my Feats patching over omissions in the rules). I thought it was weird that Spears had the same 5ft range other weapons did but I had assumed it was a one-off oversight. It didn't even occur to me that something as absolutely foundational to combat as "rushing at the enemy to attack them with the benefit of momentum" could be removed from the base game. I'm not sure if I can live with that, I think I'll hit up my DM about it.
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D&D Beyond FoundersYou can move up to enemy and attack them, that is perfectly ok.
5th edition is more about roleplay and less about mechanical rules for combat.
You can describe your character charging into battle if you like. You can even use the shove mechanic to knock a target over if you like.
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
I have a grumble about that answer Stormknight. Some weapons do still have unique (mechanical?) rules, On top of that monsters have many unique weapons - which by the rules players cant use (or at least are not proficient with) The issue with the lance isnt so much about momentum rules, its about the nonsense that a man on a horse for example can spin in his saddle and poke someone with his lance whilst the horse is grazing and do exactly as much damage as if he held his action for his mounts movement to take him into range of a target and struck it going 80' in one round. It wouldnt have been hard to just apply something like a minotaur charge ability and have it deal 2die damage but as it stands its weird to have a weapon with special rules - the lance has disadvantage to hit in 5' - but not only have no benefit to charging with it but allows it to be used in melee on a horse, one armed whilst the horse is parked with the same effect!
Mat - there is a cavalier subclass for fighters- I think (not certain) its from the sword coast adventurers guide, that might help. At the moment 5th allows everyone to ride (no skill necessary) and the only 'just for mounted warriors' feats benefit is to allow the rider to simply refuse to let anyone to attack her, or his mount. The most common way this is utilised / taken advantage of is a halfling or other small creature on a medium mount and taking himself inside a dungeon - I recommend wolf spiders and a weird saddle so you can launch scuttly wall attacks. I hope you can bring your dream to a reality without having to give up too much or rewrite everything and will enjoy hearing about your adventures if you choose to share them, Have fun and enjoy 5th!
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D&D Beyond FoundersAgreed that some of the combat rules can be a little odd, like the lance.
To be clear, I don't work for Wizards of the Coast, however I was part of the closed playtest, so am aware of many of the design concepts that were shared by the game designers - one of those being to reduce the number of mechanical options available in combat (mostly so that the DM/players don't have to keep checking the book to see what the rules are every time someone tries something different).
Whether they have stuck to that or not, is another matter!
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Thats fair enough - but if they wanted to do that removing lances and just flavour texting spear as a 'lance' and ignoring the range would have been better. Errata havent helped with needing less book / Digital checking, but that hasnt prevented errata not just clarifying but outright changing rules (new grapple rules automatic on incapacitated foes - its now easier to wrestle people who are hypnotised than stab them! (which... isnt right) Now when you cross that line? That would be when I would hope that things like lances would be altered or outright removed. - I am happy to 'blur the line' to make a players concept fit into a game if its reasonable, but if that player wants to play elsewhere then the problem is the character may not be allowed, thats frustrating and why I offered options that would hopefully capture Mat's imagination and allow him to play a cavalier and enjoy themselves within the framework the rules outline.
Some RAI ideas concerning reach and charging
War lances in medieval times were shorter than tournament lances (which most people imagine when thinking about lances). They should be considered "heavy" when dismounted, because their decent balance on horseback comes from special "hooks" on the breastplate of the mounted man-at-arms.
True, but the game should be able to differentiate between certain scenarios. Without a charge move I can only move half as far in order to attack.
I started playing a Half-Orc Fighter that I intend(ed) to develop into a Cavalier. I'll ask my DM if they're fine with some house ruling to make it actually function as a cavalier would. My compromise suggestion would probably be something like:
- All characters can charge with melee weapons; they move double their Movement directly towards their target and get a bonus action to attack with (both no other bonuses unless they have Charger).
- Spears and other polearms can hit targets up to 10 feet away (two squares).
- The lance only does d12 base damage on a charge, and d8 otherwise. A rider is assumed to have a lance rest or similar, which lets them wield it with one arm while mounted.
Thank you for the tips, I'll keep it in mind for a future mounted character. For now, I'll see if my DM is up for tweaking the rules so my Fighter can make some amount of sense. Thank you all for clearing this issue up for me. Seems like an issue to remedy in D&D 5.5e, alongside others.
With great power comes great opportunity.
The only other lance thing that sometimes crept into older editions was the ability to use the mounts str mod instead of the riders if better. Good luck with your DM / houserule and enjoy 5th!