I love the Eldritch Knight. I know a lot of people don’t, but I do. The only real issue is their 7th level feature clashing with Extra Attacks from 11th level on. But betweenness their (typically) high Con and extra ASIs for feats like Warcaster, I think they are great as Multiclass options for Int Spellcasters looking to add some meat onto their bones like Abjurers, Diviners, or Alchemists.
I love the Eldritch Knight. I know a lot of people don’t, but I do. The only real issue is their 7th level feature clashing with Extra Attacks from 11th level on. But betweenness their (typically) high Con and extra ASIs for feats like Warcaster, I think they are great as Multiclass options for Int Spellcasters looking to add some meat onto their bones like Abjurers, Diviners, or Alchemists.
I don't mind that war magic (and later improved War Magic) clash with the fighter's extra attack. I don't look at it like a flaw as much as providing options or allowing a fighter to do some of what it normally does (make attacks) while also casting a spell. There are times where MOAR DAMAGE doesn't actually solve more problems and that flexibility works great.
I love the Eldritch Knight. I know a lot of people don’t, but I do. The only real issue is their 7th level feature clashing with Extra Attacks from 11th level on. But betweenness their (typically) high Con and extra ASIs for feats like Warcaster, I think they are great as Multiclass options for Int Spellcasters looking to add some meat onto their bones like Abjurers, Diviners, or Alchemists.
I think the offensive fighting capability of the Eldritch Knight combined with the Abjurer’s ability to cast defensive spells makes a really potent combo. Do you guys agree?
Or what about an Invoker if you wanna go heavier on offense? Burning Hands is an invocation and it said in the writeup that a lot of Eldritch Knights use that as one of their first level spell slots.
Depends on how you look at it. Its a cool class. if you are thinking more about the power/numeric side of things I guess the tried and trusted paladin6 / sorcerer14 multiclass will come out ahead, but apart from that its all good.
In my opinion the question is if you like a Eldritch Knight 20 or a Fighter 11/Wizard 9 better. The latter loses one attack per round, but gets better spellcasting and a long list of class features (for example a battlemaster11/diviner9).
Depends on how you look at it. Its a cool class. if you are thinking more about the power/numeric side of things I guess the tried and trusted paladin6 / sorcerer14 multiclass will come out ahead, but apart from that its all good.
In my opinion the question is if you like a Eldritch Knight 20 or a Fighter 11/Wizard 9 better. The latter loses one attack per round, but gets better spellcasting and a long list of class features (for example a battlemaster11/diviner9).
In your opinion, how is the Battle Master superior to the Eldritch Knight as a subclass? Or are they equal just with different features?
I think they are fairly equal side by side. The battlemasters main advantage is that his effects are stacked on top of regular attacks, while spells usually have to be cast instead of an attack. Spells are usually more powerful though. Battlemasters also don't have to care about intelligence, which both eldritch knights and wizards have to if they want to use any offensive spells.
My point by showing the battlemaster/diviner build was just that such a build gets more spells and maneuvers (and some more stuff) so they don't have to choose. The only important element that build will lose is 1 attack per round at lv 20, which is major.
I love eldritch knight for what it is. It works well, is a solid class, and is fun to play.
The reason there is a lot of dispute around it is because people flock to the class thinking that it's a swordmage when it isn't. It's a fighter with a couple of party tricks to back it up. Therefore the people going into expecting the swordmage are disappointed. Going into the class, you have to remember it's a fighter and it's very enjoyable that way.
I love eldritch knight for what it is. It works well, is a solid class, and is fun to play.
The reason there is a lot of dispute around it is because people flock to the class thinking that it's a swordmage when it isn't. It's a fighter with a couple of party tricks to back it up. Therefore the people going into expecting the swordmage are disappointed. Going into the class, you have to remember it's a fighter and it's very enjoyable that way.
Interesting. I just looked up the Sword Mage on the D&D Wiki. How would you compare them to the Eldritch Knight as far as their utility in adventures and their role in the party?
Being a full fighter, EK can be a lot less afraid to walk into the middle of anything and start stabbing. It has 4 attacks, heavy armour, and a d10 hit die meaning that it can take a huge amount of damage rather than just dish it out. All that without magic. Their magic allows things like the shield spell to essentially make them nearly unhittable. It can easily go up to an ac of 26.
Duskblade/magnus/swordmage were more glass cannons. They mix casting and combat more evenly, and with their d8 hit dice and lack of heavy armour can't take a hit in the same way, but have a focus on mobility (especially the swordmage, which has many class abilities based around teleports). Duskblade and magnus had abilities called spellstrike, which allow them to apply spells to their blades in order to vary the effect given on hit. Ranging from elemental damage, fear, or draining hit points through vampiric touch. The closest we have to that now is the paladin smite spells, which let you enchant your blade on a bonus action to discharge with varying effects on a hit.
Basically EK are much more frontline tanks, while the varying arcane half casters are damage/utility at the cost of not being tanky in the same way.
Not a fan of bladesinger. It pushes a class which has no business being in combat into combat, where it's just sub par. The timer for the bladesong is frustrating, and it lacks any decent way of merging its magic and combat, lacking spellstrike or anything similar. It's the opposite to EK. It's a full caster which has an emergency button if someone gets too close. It's also elf only unless your DM says so.
Using these various arcane gish subclasses you can make an arcane half caster via multiclassing, but it's like saying a cleric fighter mix is a paladin. It's a divine half caster, but lacks the core mechanic which makes paladin fun.
I consider EK a far better designed subclass than bladesinger. The few spells it gets help give it some nice tricks in combat. Bladesinger I think is badly designed and clashes directly with the wizard chassis it's glued to.
Being a full fighter, EK can be a lot less afraid to walk into the middle of anything and start stabbing. It has 4 attacks, heavy armour, and a d10 hit die meaning that it can take a huge amount of damage rather than just dish it out. All that without magic. Their magic allows things like the shield spell to essentially make them nearly unhittable. It can easily go up to an ac of 26.
Basically EK are much more frontline tanks, while the varying arcane half casters are damage/utility at the cost of not being tanky in the same way.
This. The one in my campaign has a Thor vibe (warhammer, Thunderclap, Earth Tremor, Thunderwave) with high AC who loves to wade into the middle of a fight and start dropping the aforementioned spells. He's alternatively, damaging, pushing, and/or knocking people/creatures prone. Then the Monk and Rogue move in and have a field day while the Sorcerer hangs back dropping bombs. He's not doing a ton of damage...but that's not really his role.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
#OpenD&D #ORC
"...or you can find the secret tunnel that leads to the Vault of Dickish DM which is filled with 10,000,000 copper coins and a 5,000 pound solid gold statue of a middle finger that is too big to fit through the door."
Being a full fighter, EK can be a lot less afraid to walk into the middle of anything and start stabbing. It has 4 attacks, heavy armour, and a d10 hit die meaning that it can take a huge amount of damage rather than just dish it out. All that without magic. Their magic allows things like the shield spell to essentially make them nearly unhittable. It can easily go up to an ac of 26.
Basically EK are much more frontline tanks, while the varying arcane half casters are damage/utility at the cost of not being tanky in the same way.
This. The one in my campaign has a Thor vibe (warhammer, Thunderclap, Earth Tremor, Thunderwave) with high AC who loves to wade into the middle of a fight and start dropping the aforementioned spells. He's alternatively, damaging, pushing, and/or knocking people/creatures prone. Then the Monk and Rogue move in and have a field day while the Sorcerer hangs back dropping bombs. He's not doing a ton of damage...but that's not really his role.
Sounds really smart from a tactical perspective.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I really liked the overall concept and I especially liked the opening fiction piece and the character portrait. What did everyone else think?
I love the Eldritch Knight. I know a lot of people don’t, but I do. The only real issue is their 7th level feature clashing with Extra Attacks from 11th level on. But betweenness their (typically) high Con and extra ASIs for feats like Warcaster, I think they are great as Multiclass options for Int Spellcasters looking to add some meat onto their bones like Abjurers, Diviners, or Alchemists.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I don't mind that war magic (and later improved War Magic) clash with the fighter's extra attack. I don't look at it like a flaw as much as providing options or allowing a fighter to do some of what it normally does (make attacks) while also casting a spell. There are times where MOAR DAMAGE doesn't actually solve more problems and that flexibility works great.
I think the offensive fighting capability of the Eldritch Knight combined with the Abjurer’s ability to cast defensive spells makes a really potent combo. Do you guys agree?
Or what about an Invoker if you wanna go heavier on offense? Burning Hands is an invocation and it said in the writeup that a lot of Eldritch Knights use that as one of their first level spell slots.
Depends on how you look at it. Its a cool class. if you are thinking more about the power/numeric side of things I guess the tried and trusted paladin6 / sorcerer14 multiclass will come out ahead, but apart from that its all good.
In my opinion the question is if you like a Eldritch Knight 20 or a Fighter 11/Wizard 9 better. The latter loses one attack per round, but gets better spellcasting and a long list of class features (for example a battlemaster11/diviner9).
In your opinion, how is the Battle Master superior to the Eldritch Knight as a subclass? Or are they equal just with different features?
I think they are fairly equal side by side. The battlemasters main advantage is that his effects are stacked on top of regular attacks, while spells usually have to be cast instead of an attack. Spells are usually more powerful though. Battlemasters also don't have to care about intelligence, which both eldritch knights and wizards have to if they want to use any offensive spells.
My point by showing the battlemaster/diviner build was just that such a build gets more spells and maneuvers (and some more stuff) so they don't have to choose. The only important element that build will lose is 1 attack per round at lv 20, which is major.
I love eldritch knight for what it is. It works well, is a solid class, and is fun to play.
The reason there is a lot of dispute around it is because people flock to the class thinking that it's a swordmage when it isn't. It's a fighter with a couple of party tricks to back it up. Therefore the people going into expecting the swordmage are disappointed. Going into the class, you have to remember it's a fighter and it's very enjoyable that way.
Interesting. I just looked up the Sword Mage on the D&D Wiki. How would you compare them to the Eldritch Knight as far as their utility in adventures and their role in the party?
Being a full fighter, EK can be a lot less afraid to walk into the middle of anything and start stabbing. It has 4 attacks, heavy armour, and a d10 hit die meaning that it can take a huge amount of damage rather than just dish it out. All that without magic. Their magic allows things like the shield spell to essentially make them nearly unhittable. It can easily go up to an ac of 26.
Duskblade/magnus/swordmage were more glass cannons. They mix casting and combat more evenly, and with their d8 hit dice and lack of heavy armour can't take a hit in the same way, but have a focus on mobility (especially the swordmage, which has many class abilities based around teleports). Duskblade and magnus had abilities called spellstrike, which allow them to apply spells to their blades in order to vary the effect given on hit. Ranging from elemental damage, fear, or draining hit points through vampiric touch. The closest we have to that now is the paladin smite spells, which let you enchant your blade on a bonus action to discharge with varying effects on a hit.
Basically EK are much more frontline tanks, while the varying arcane half casters are damage/utility at the cost of not being tanky in the same way.
Thank you both. This really clarifies things.
What do you guys think of the Bladesinger? They’re kind of an arcane half caster the same way a Duskblade is.
Not a fan of bladesinger. It pushes a class which has no business being in combat into combat, where it's just sub par. The timer for the bladesong is frustrating, and it lacks any decent way of merging its magic and combat, lacking spellstrike or anything similar. It's the opposite to EK. It's a full caster which has an emergency button if someone gets too close. It's also elf only unless your DM says so.
Using these various arcane gish subclasses you can make an arcane half caster via multiclassing, but it's like saying a cleric fighter mix is a paladin. It's a divine half caster, but lacks the core mechanic which makes paladin fun.
I consider EK a far better designed subclass than bladesinger. The few spells it gets help give it some nice tricks in combat. Bladesinger I think is badly designed and clashes directly with the wizard chassis it's glued to.
I get it.
Thank you. That really helps.
This. The one in my campaign has a Thor vibe (warhammer, Thunderclap, Earth Tremor, Thunderwave) with high AC who loves to wade into the middle of a fight and start dropping the aforementioned spells. He's alternatively, damaging, pushing, and/or knocking people/creatures prone. Then the Monk and Rogue move in and have a field day while the Sorcerer hangs back dropping bombs. He's not doing a ton of damage...but that's not really his role.
#OpenD&D #ORC
"...or you can find the secret tunnel that leads to the Vault of Dickish DM which is filled with 10,000,000 copper coins and a 5,000 pound solid gold statue of a middle finger that is too big to fit through the door."
Sounds really smart from a tactical perspective.