Ok, so with some additional thought and some advice on this thread I went back and revised my thoughts on the 4E Monk. I put the original post in a Spoilers tag at the bottom, so if you feel like looking at that post it is there. I also put a couple notes in post #8 explaining some choices.
This will be a long post so bear with me. I decided to use subclass features to augment unarmed strikes and the elemental disciplines to add flavor, damage, and some control, buffs, etc...
I'm not sure if the ki point expenditures are balanced or if the damage is, so feel free to let me know what you think.
Way of the Four Elements Monk – Another Take v2.0
I made some changes to the language (italicized and in this color) as it seemed a bit confusing. Plus my writing skills are lacking so hope this all makes sense. Thanks.
At 3 Level you gain the following Subclass Features
Elemental Strikes – You channel your Ki and imbue your unarmed strikes with the power of the Four Elements. You spend 1 Ki, then choose one elemental damage type, Bludgeoning (Earth), Cold (Water), Fire (Fire), Thunder (Air) and for 1 minute your unarmed strikes deal additional elemental damage equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Elemental Attunement – You can use your action to briefly control elemental forces within 30 feet of you, causing one of the following effects of your choice:
Create a harmless, instantaneous sensory effect related to air earth fire, or water, such as a shower of sparks, a puff of wind, a spray of light mist, or a gentle rumbling of stone.
Instantaneously light or snuff out a candle, a torch, or a small campfire.
Chill or warm up to 1 pound of nonliving material for up to 1 hour.
Cause earth, fire, water or mist that can fit within a 1-foot cube to shape itself into a crude form you designate for 1 minute.
Disciple of the Elements – You learn magical disciplines that harness the power of the four elements. Some disciplines require you to spend ki points each time you use it.
You know two elemental disciplines of your choice, which are detailed in the “Elemental Disciplines” section below. You learn one additional elemental discipline of your choice at 6, 11, and 17 level. When an Elemental Discipline lists a number of damage dice rolled equal to your Martial Arts die it will be described as 1dMA for 1 roll of your Martial Arts die, 2dMA for 2 rolls of your Martial Arts die, etc…
Whenever you learn a new elemental discipline, you can also replace one elemental discipline that you already know with a different one.
Focused Elemental Strikes – At 6 level, when you use your Elemental Strikes feature, you can focus the element chosen into a deadly strike. Once per turn, while the Elemental Strikes feature is active, you can deal additional elemental damage equal to one roll of your Martial Arts die (1dMA).
In addition, while your Elemental Strikes feature is active you gain resistance to the damage type chosen (bludgeoning, cold, fire, or thunder).
Harness the Wind – At 11 level, you cause the wind to swirl around you and lift you from the ground. You gain a flying speed equal to your walking speed, and you can hover.
Also, you are protected by the swirling winds that carry you. All ranged attacks against you are made at disadvantage.
This feature lasts for 10 minutes and can be used a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus per long rest, or by spending 3 ki points.
Elemental Barrage – At 17 level you bring forth the forces of nature into a devastating barrage of elemental fury. When you have your Elemental Strikes feature active, you can activate your Elemental Barrage. When you take the attack action, you can make three additional unarmed strikes and the additional elemental damage caused by the Elemental Strikes feature is equal to two times your Wisdom modifier.
You can use this feature only once per turn. And you can use it a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus per long rest.
Elemental Disciplines – The Elemental Disciplines are listed by the Monk level prerequisite to select the discipline. You can select disciplines from a lower level’s list, but you cannot select disciplines with a level prerequisite higher than your Monk level.
A discipline that allows you to increase the number of rolls of your Martial Arts die is based on your Monk level, not your character level. The amount of the increase, and additional ki cost, over the base discipline cost, is listed in the discipline's description.
Prerequisite: 3 Level Way of the Four Elements Monk
Fangs of the Fire Snake – When you use the Attack action on your turn, you cause tendrils of flame to stretch out from your fists and feet. Your reach with your unarmed strikes increases by 10 feet for that action, as well as the rest of the turn. A hit with such an attack deals fire damage instead of bludgeoning damage, and if you spend 1 ki point when the attack hits, it also deals extra fire damage equal to 1dMA.
If your Elemental Strikes feature is active, you can change the damage type from Fire to the damage type chosen for that feature.
Fist of Unbroken Air – You can create a blast of compressed air that strikes like a mighty fist. As an action, you can spend 2 ki points and choose a creature within 30 feet of you. That creature must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 4dMA Thunder damage, and you can push the creature up to 20 feet away from you and knock it prone. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage, and you don’t push it or knock it prone.You can increase the damage to 5dMA at 6th level by spending 1 additional ki point, 6dMA at 11th level by spending 2 additional ki points, and 7dMA at 17th level by spending 3 additional ki points.
Protection of the Mountain – When you take damage from a creature you can see, within 30 feet of you, you can use your reaction to reduce the damage taken by 2dMA plus your Monk level. You can use this discipline a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier. You can increase the reduction to 3dMA plus your Monk levelat 6th level by spending 1 additional ki point, 4dMA plus your Monk level at 11th level by spending 2 additional ki points, and 5dMA plus your Monk level at 17th level by spending 3 additional ki points.
Shape the Flowing River – as per Player’s Handbook
Shards of the Winter Storm – As an action, you spend 2 ki points and your ki manifests into 3 razor sharp shards of ice that you can throw in one sweeping motion at one or more creatures within 60 feet of you. The shards can take any shape desired, icy darts, daggers, shuriken, arrows, etc. Make a ranged attack roll for each shard. On a hit, a target takes 1dMA Cold damage and has disadvantage on it’s next attack roll. You can increase the damage of each shard to 2dMA at 6th level by spending 1 additional ki point, 3dMA at 11th level by spending 2 additional ki points, and 4dMA at 17th level by spending 3 additional ki points.
Water Whip – You can spend 2 ki points as an action to create a whip of water that shoves and pulls a creature to unbalance it. A creature that you can see that is within 30 feet of you must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 4dMA Cold damage, and you can either knock it prone or pull it up to 25 feet closer to you. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage, and you don’t pull it or knock it prone. You can increase the damage to 5dMA at 6th level by spending 1 additional ki point, 6dMA at 11th level by spending 2 additional ki points, and 7dMA at 17th level by spending 3 additional ki points.
Prerequisite: 6 Level Way of the Four Elements Monk
Balm of Clear Waters – As an action, you can spend 3 ki points and a calm soothing mist swirls around you in a 15-foot radius. The mist moves with you and is centered on you. You can use a bonus action and heal one creature within the mist for 2dMA hit points. This effect lasts for 1 minute or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell).
Bindings of the Four Winds – You call forth the Four Winds to hamper your enemies. As an action, you spend 3 ki points and create a 30-foot sphere of lashing winds at a point you can see within 120 feet of you. Each creature that enters the sphere or starts it’s turn there, must make a Strength saving throw or be restrained. A restrained creature can attempt to break free of their airy bonds by succeeding on a Strength saving throw at the start of their turn (I changed this from end to start of their turn otherwise, if they broke free at the end of their turn they could get stuck in an endless loop without a chance to do anything). On the turn this discipline is used, and on subsequent turns, you can use your bonus action to cause the air around the restrained creatures to boom with thunderous energy. Each restrained creature takes 2dMA Thunder damage. You can increase the damage to 3dMA at 11th level by spending 1 additional ki point, and 4dMA at 17th level by spending 2 additional ki points.The effect lasts for 1 minute or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell).
Mountain Stance – You become as immovable and as durable as the mountains themselves. As a reaction, you cannot be forcibly moved from the space you are occupying. You can willingly allow yourself to be moved. And, if you spend 3 ki points, you gain resistance to nonmagical Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing Damage. The damage resistance lasts for 1 minute.
Steps of the Xorn – Your movements become one with the earth. You can move across difficult terrain made of earth or stone without expending extra movement. As a bonus action, when standing on nonmagical unworked earth and stone, choose an unoccupied space that you can see within 30 feet of you, which is also unworked earth and stone, and spend 2 ki points. You sink completely into the earth and stone and instantaneously reemerge from the earth and stone, in the chosen unoccupied space.
Strike of the Ember Crane – As an action, you spend 3 ki points and your ki manifests as three fiery embers which you can hurl at one or more targets within 60 feet. Make a ranged attack roll for each ember. On a hit, the target takes 2dMA fire damage and the ember explodes. The target, and each creature within 5 feet of the target must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 1dMA fire damage from the exploding ember. You can increase the damage to 3dMA and 2dMA exploding damage at 11th level by spending 1 additional ki point, and 4dMA and 3dMA exploding damage at 17th level by spending 2 additional ki points.
Prerequisite: 11 level Way of the Four Elements Monk
Dancing of the Flame – As an action, you spend 3 ki points and choose one creature you can see within 120 feet. The creature is wreathed in flames and must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 8dMA fire damage and the creature remains on fire for the discipline’s duration. While on fire, the creature uses all its movement to move in a random direction. To determine the direction, roll a d8 and assign a direction to each die face. The creature doesn’t take an action on its turn. On a successful save the creature takes half as much damage and does not remain on fire. At the end of each of its turns, the creature repeats the saving throw. It takes 4dMA fire damage on a failed save, and the effect ends on a successful one. The effect lasts for 1 minute or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell)
Song of the Winter Wolf – As an action, you spend 3 ki points and unleash a blast of cold in a 15-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, they take 6dMA Cold damage. Also, their speed is reduced by 10 feet, and they cannot take reactions until the end of your next turn. On a successful save, they take half as much damage, their speed is not reduced, and they can take reactions as normal. You can increase the damage to 7dMA by spending 1 additional ki point at level 17.
Tremors of the Rolling Earth – As an action, you spend 3 ki points and strike the ground. A tremor wave 5 feet wide travels out from you in a straight line toward a point that you can see within 120-feet. Any creature in a space the wave travels through must make a Dexterity saving throw or be knocked prone. When the wave reaches the target point it expands outward in a 30 foot radius. Tendrils of stone explode out from the ground and batter any creature you choose, in the area. Chosen creatures in the area must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 8dMA Bludgeoning damage and are Incapacitated until the start of your next turn. On a successful save, the creatures take half as much damage and are not Incapacitated.
Wind of the Clear Skies – You use your ki to infuse a creature with cleansing air. As a Bonus Action, you spend 3 ki points and choose a willing creature within 30 feet. You can remove on of the following conditions: blinded, charmed, deafened, frightened, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned.
Prerequisite: 17 level Way of the Four Elements Monk
Maelstrom of the Elements – As an action, you spend 5 ki points and create a maelstrom of elemental fury that swirls around you in a 30-foot radius centered on you. Your speed is reduced to zero while you maintain the effect and you can designate any number of creatures you can see to be unaffected by it. An affected creature’s speed is halved in the area. Choose an elemental damage type (bludgeoning, cold, fire, thunder) and when a creature enters the area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it must make a constitution saving throw or take 8dMA damage of the type chosen. On a successful save a creature takes half as much damage. The effect lasts for 1 minute or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell).
You can use this feature once per long rest.
Ever since 1st edition AD&D, monks have been my favorite class. Unfortunately, I have yet to play one in 5E, but it will probably be my next character. Reading and participating in several Four Element Monk threads I decided to take a shot at revising the subclass.
First, let me say that this is still a work in progress and I am not claiming that it is balanced. I am looking for peoples thoughts and advice.
Second, I got rid of all spell casting disciplines and I never thought they fit with the subclass. Unique disciplines like Fangs of the Fire Snake, Fist of Unbroken Air, Shape the Flowing River, and Water Whip I kept. And I am creating unique disciplines for each of the four elements at 3rd, 6th, 11th, and 17th level to choose from (still work in progress)
Third, I added actual Class Features at 3rd, 6th, 11th, and 17th level that you gain in addition to the Elemental Disciplines you gain at those levels.
Fourth, to try to keep with the four elements theme (Earth, Water, Fire, Air) I am using four damage types. Bludgeoning (Earth), Cold (Water), Fire (Fire, of course), and Thunder (Air)
Ok, so here we go: Way of the Four Elements - another take
Disciple of the Elements
When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you learn magical disciplines that harness the power of the four elements. Some disciplines require you to spend ki points each time you use it.
You know the Elemental Discipline Fangs of the Fire Snake. In addition, you know one other elemental discipline of your choice, which are detailed in the “Elemental Disciplines” section below. You learn one additional elemental discipline of your choice at 6th, 11th, and 17th level.
Whenever you learn a new elemental discipline, you can also replace one elemental discipline that you already know with a different discipline.
Empowered Elemental Disciplines
Once you reach 5th level in this class, you can spend additional ki points to empower an elemental discipline. The Elemental Discipline description will list what benefits you gain for each additional ki point you spend.
The maximum number of ki points you can spend on an Elemental Discipline (including the Elemental Discipline’s base cost) is determined by your monk level, as shown in the Elemental Discipline and Ki Points table.
Elemental Discipline and Ki Points
Monk Levels
Maximum Ki Points for an Elemental Discipline
5th–8th
3
9th–12th
4
13th–16th
6
17th–20th
8
Elemental Disciplines
The elemental disciplines are presented by the level they become available. If a discipline requires a level, you must be that level in this class to learn the discipline.
3 Level
Fangs of the Fire Snake (revised)
When you use the Attack action on your turn, you cause tendrils of flame to stretch out from your fists and feet. Your reach with your unarmed strikes increases by 10 feet for that action, as well as the rest of the turn. A hit with such an attack deals fire damage instead of bludgeoning damage, and if you spend 1 ki point when the attack hits, it also deals an extra 1d10 fire damage. At 5th level you can increase this damage by spending additional Ki points up to the limit on the Elemental Discipline and Ki Points table. Each additional ki point adds 1d10 fire damage.
Fist of Unbroken Air (same)
You can create a blast of compressed air that strikes like a mighty fist. As an action, you can spend 2 ki points and choose a creature within 30 feet of you. That creature must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 3d10 bludgeoning damage, plus an extra 1d10 bludgeoning damage for each additional ki point you spend, and you can push the creature up to 20 feet away from you and knock it prone. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage, and you don’t push it or knock it prone.
Protection of the Mountain (new)
When you take damage from a creature you can see within 30 feet of you, you can spend 1 ki point and use your reaction to reduce the damage taken by two rolls of your martial arts die plus your monk level.
Shape the Flowing River (same)
As an action, you can spend 1 ki point to choose an area of ice or water no larger than 30 feet on a side within 120 feet of you. You can change water to ice within the area and vice versa, and you can reshape ice in the area in any manner you choose. You can raise or lower the ice’s elevation, create or fill in a trench, erect or flatten a wall, or form a pillar. The extent of any such changes can’t exceed half the area’s largest dimension. For example, if you affect a 30-foot square, you can create a pillar up to 15 feet high, raise or lower the square’s elevation by up to 15 feet, dig a trench up to 15 feet deep, and so on. You can’t shape the ice to trap or damage a creature in the area.
Water Whip (same)
You can spend 2 ki points as an action to create a whip of water that shoves and pulls a creature to unbalance it. A creature that you can see that is within 30 feet of you must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 3d10 bludgeoning damage, plus an extra 1d10 bludgeoning damage for each additional ki point you spend, and you can either knock it prone or pull it up to 25 feet closer to you. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage, and you don’t pull it or knock it prone.
6 Level
Arctic Touch (new)
You imbue your unarmed attacks with the icy cold of the arctic. You spend 2 ki points, and until the start of your next turn, your unarmed strikes deal and extra 1d6 cold damage. In addition, any target hit must make a constitution saving throw or be slowed by the numbing touch. On a failed save, their speed is reduced by 10 feet and they cannot use reactions until the end of their next turn.
Empowered Elemental Discipline: At 5th level monk or higher you can empower this discipline. For each additional ki point spent you increase the cold damage by 1d6.
Bindings of the Four Winds (new)
You call forth the Four Winds to hamper your enemies. As an action, you spend 3 ki points and lashing winds reach out in a 30 foot radius, centered on you. Choose a number of creatures, within range, equal to your Wisdom modifier. Those creatures must make a Strength saving throw or be restrained. A restrained creature can attempt to break free of their airy bonds by succeeding on a Strength saving throw at the end of their turn. On subsequent turns, you can use your bonus action to squeeze restrained creatures dealing bludgeoning damage equal to two rolls of your martial arts die. The effect lasts for 1 minute, or you can end it early by using a bonus action.
Empowered Elemental Discipline: At 9th level monk or higher you can empower this discipline. For each additional ki point spent (over the base cost) you can try and restrain one additional creature. And bonus action damage increases by one additional roll of your martial arts die.
Mountain Stance (new)
You become as immovable and as durable as the mountains themselves. As an action, you spend 3 ki points and you cannot be forcibly moved from the space you are occupying. You can willingly allow yourself to be moved. You also gain resistance to nonmagical Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing damage. This effect lasts for 1 minute.
Strike of the Ember Crane (new)
As an action, you spend 3 ki points and your ki manifests as three fiery embers which you can hurl at one or more targets within 120 feet. Make a ranged attack roll for each ember. On a hit, the target takes 2d6 fire damage and the ember explodes. Each creature within 5 feet of the target must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 1d6 fire damage from the exploding ember.
Empowered Elemental Discipline: At 9th level monk or higher, you can empower this discipline adding 1d6 fire damage to both the targets damage and the exploding damage per additional ki point spent (so with 4 ki spent (3 base cost, 1 additional ki) you do 3d6/2d6 fire damage for each ember. 5 ki does 4d6/3d6 fire damage, etc)
This is as far as I got creating new Elemental Disciplines so far
Class Features
In addition to the Elemental Disciplines, you gain the following Class Features at 3rd, 6th, 11th, and 17th level.
Elemental Attunement (same) Now a class feature instead of an Elemental Discipline
At 3rd level, you can use your action to briefly control elemental forces within 30 feet of you, causing one of the following effects of your choice:
Create a harmless, instantaneous sensory effect related to air, earth, fire, or water, such as a shower of sparks, a puff of wind, a spray of light mist, or a gentle rumbling of stone.
Instantaneously light or snuff out a candle, a torch, or a small campfire.
Chill or warm up to 1 pound of nonliving material for up to 1 hour.
Cause earth, fire, water, or mist that can fit within a 1-foot cube to shape itself into a crude form you designate for 1 minute.
Elemental Strikes
At 6th level you channel your ki to imbue the elements into your strikes. You spend 1 ki point and choose an elemental damage type (bludgeoning, cold, fire, or thunder). Your unarmed strikes deal additional damage, of the type chosen, equal to your Wisdom modifier. The effect lasts for 1 minute.
Harness the Wind
At 11th level, you cause the air around you to swirl and lift you from the ground. You gain a flying speed equal to your walking speed. And you can hover. You can also spend 2 ki points to grant a flying speed equal to yours, to a willing creature of medium size or smaller. They must stay within 30 feet of you or lose the ability to fly.
Empowered Elemental Discipline: you can spend 2 additional ki per creature to grant a fly speed to multiple willing creatures.
Also, you, and any creature you grant a fly speed to is protected by the swirling winds that carry you. All ranged attacks against you are made at Disadvantage.
This feature lasts for 10 minutes. And you can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, or by spending 2 ki points.
Elemental Barrage
At 17th level you bring forth the forces of nature. When you use your Elemental Strikes feature, you can activate your Elemental Barrage for one turn, and make three additional unarmed strikes as part of your attack action. The bonus damage from Elemental Strikes becomes two times your Wisdom modifier.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, per long rest.
Let me know what you think. Any advice on if it’s too OP or too weak. Is it something I should continue that you would find interesting. Or should I just scrap the idea altogether. Thanks
Overall I like it. Im a big fan of any revision or rework which gives the four elements monk more subclass features to play with. One thing that does stick out to me as odd is that in your version everyone starts with Fangs of the Fire Snake, as opposed to getting to choose which "element" you want to start with.
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I had considered giving two choices at 3rd level and nothing automatically assigned. But I revised Fist of the Fire Snake to be free to use and only adding damage cost Ki. So right out the gate you have an elemental attack with reach that does Fire damage.
Edit: I also tried to keep the new disciplines in a pattern of:
fire disciplines are primarily damage. earth primarily defense. air primarily control. water/ice primarily debuff
Overall I like it. Im a big fan of any revision or rework which gives the four elements monk more subclass features to play with. One thing that does stick out to me as odd is that in your version everyone starts with Fangs of the Fire Snake, as opposed to getting to choose which "element" you want to start with.
When I first responded, I didn't catch your meaning. I was at work on break and was short on time. But I see what your saying if someone wanted to play a cold based 4E monk why would they have fire damage. I like the idea of having that choice so I may revise it to choosing your damage type instead of it being just fire. And it would stack with the 6th level class feature with elemental damage. Or it could just be pick two ED's to start. I want to add more, but haven't had time. Will try to update and add stuff soon.
Question I have for those who are interested, is it a good or bad thing to break down the disciplines by Fire/Damage, Earth/Defense, Water&Ice/Debuff, and Air/Control primarily with some minor damage (other than fire which is primarily damage)? And using Fire=Fire Damage, Earth=Bludgeoning damage, Air=Thunder damage, Water=Cold damage? I know Fist of Unbroken Air and Water Whip both do Bludgeoning damage and I was thinking of changing those damage types to Thunder and Cold respectively.
Question I have for those who are interested, is it a good or bad thing to break down the disciplines by Fire/Damage, Earth/Defense, Water&Ice/Debuff, and Air/Control primarily with some minor damage (other than fire which is primarily damage)? And using Fire=Fire Damage, Earth=Bludgeoning damage, Air=Thunder damage, Water=Cold damage? I know Fist of Unbroken Air and Water Whip both do Bludgeoning damage and I was thinking of changing those damage types to Thunder and Cold respectively.
Thanks.
I think that could work. I've always also liked the idea of water having natural "healing" properties to it, so I could see a water based ED that has a similar effect to something like Lesser Restoration as well if you wanted to further flesh out options
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I didn't go through everything in detail, just enough to get an idea of where you are headed. I like what you've done with fangs of the fire snake, but I really do think you should have a choice for each element instead of forcing the player into fire... Starting off your subclass by picking one of four abilties that can enhance your basic attacks would be very flavorful and cool.. You're sorta already heading there with the Elemental Strikes features, which is very cool, but I don't like forcing the player to be fire themed, as I would personally like to focus my own four elements monk around a single element.
Some other things I noted;
Most, if not all of the abilities still rely on Ki usage, which is a shame in my opinion. Almost every other class get features from their subclasses optop of their existing resources, abilities they can freely use without tapping into the resource that fuels their class abilities... An arcane trickster gets spell slots, a soul knife gets psionic dice.. So why does the four elements monk have to spend their ki everytime the want to take advanage of their subclass? My conjuration wizard doesn't have to spend spell slots for minor conjuration.. It's not that I mind the usage of KI, but I think there's an inherent problem in simply creating a larger Ki drain for the monk.
I mean look at the battlemaster fighter, they get so many cool options, and they don't take away from the fighter's base ability set... Imagine if the fighter's third attack relied on using the same resource as the battlemaster techniques, that would suck.. Honestly I think building every monk sublcass feature around ki usage should be reconsidered... why not make some of abilities that are simply "use whenever you feel like using them" like the echo knight... Or have their usage rely on wisdom.
I think there's a lack of other actions than the standard action. I think you have a reaction in there, aswell as some of the more interesting ones that mix into your attacks.. But there are no bonus actions, and you could certainly use another reaction ability or two. This is definately my personal bias, but I generally don't like the idea of a monk stopping their martial arts entirely to pull off an elemental ability.. I'd much rather see it mixed into bonus actions, reactions or attack actions... Not that regular action abilties don't belong, but I think you're relying on them too much.
I also think I would look into how these abilities scale with levels. Perhaps use martial arts dice some more, that way your monk will feel like they're progressively getting stronger across the board, instead of getting the same numbers from fangs of the fire snake they got at lvl three... I understand you can upcast a lot of these abilities, but since you're using Ki as a resource, and a monk does not scale their ki pool very well, I'd consider a free form of scaling aswell.
As for tying specific elements to speific damage types, I don't think its' necessary.. Obviously fire stuff is often going to deal fire damage, but there's no reason to limit yourself entirely... I'd probably structure is more like this 1st discipline option = Attack action upgrade of each element, 2nd option = utility based option from each element ect... I think having earth only being defensive would be a shame... But that's just me.
Edit: It looks like the non discipline class features are more open to not relying on ki-usage, which is nice... I would probably elimnate ki usage from those features entirely. Perhaps have Elemental Strkes be wisdom/long rest?
I realise I threw like 100 ideas at you, I don't expect you to try and work all of them in, I was merely giving you my thoughts as I was reading through your ideas... I will say that just by adding actual class features ontop of the disciplines, you are making the subclass feel much more like an actual subclass than the original.
Thank you for all of your comments. After Kaboom’s comments I had anticipated reworking my ideas. I had a kernel of an idea but didn’t really work through everything before my initial post, it was some of my first thoughts stemming from comments I made in previous 4E Monk threads. And after your comments I think a rework is in order.
One thing I had considered was moving the Elemental Strikes feature from 6th level to 3rd level so you can start off wielding any element you want. Along with elemental attunement at 3rd. Spending one Ki for one minute of all unarmed strikes doing more damage didn’t seem like it was too burdensome but could modify that.
Then at 6th level boosting the Elemental Strikes feature at no additional cost. I like the idea of class features building on earlier features. Maybe have it once per turn do one or two martial arts die extra elemental damage. Like a Focused Elemental Strike. Mercy monks get hand of harm later for no extra cost over FoB and Hunter Ranger with Colossus Slayer can do extra damage once per turn so it’s not out of line
The Harness the Wind feature was already free, just cost to give others flight, but was thinking of making it self only at no cost.
I do agree that it should be open to element type you want to use so I would probably leave Fist of the Fire snake as per PHB and maybe alter water whip to do cold damage and fist of unbroken air do thunder.
Edit: So in the end I am considering the subclass features as the backbone of the Elemental fighting for all day use so you feel like an elemental monk and the disciplines as adding flavor, damage, control, defense, and debuff. But not tied to a particular element. Varying it up so no matter what element you want to focus on, if you want to focus at all, you have versatility and choices.
Revision notes: I kept Fangs of the Fire Snake to only do 1 roll of the martial arts die (1dMA) and not "upcastable" because it stacks with the level 3, 6, and 17 subclass features. I tried to keep balance in mind, but I'm not a designer so things could be out of whack.
And, yes, the disciplines use ki so that still could be an issue with 4E monks, but I tried to keep it to a minimum and because the 3rd level subclass feature only uses 1 ki for a full minute of use (at least one combat most likely) and the level 6 and level 17 boost to that 3rd level subclass feature are free I felt that ki usage on the disciplines was ok.
Hope you find this interesting and let me know what you think or if you have any suggestions on improvements.
Is your MA die in damage meant to be with the attribute damage modifier or purely the die?
I'm curious because it does affect a few of the abilities that are by the book.
If it's meant to be without the attribute modifier then you've actually lowered the damage that certain ones that are primarily book based for most levels. Even though you've increased the number of dice rolled for them. Water Whip and unbroken Air for example have an average damage of 15 base from their 3d10 (slightly higher if you want to get nitpicky about .5's). But with your system at level 3 your looking at only about 8 damage starting out at tier 1 instead but your looking at 20 average damage base at level 17.
Was this intentional or was the attribute modifier supposed to e added in as well in your listings of MA dice? which changes the math by a lot (and increases the damage that they do overall even at low level).
Is your MA die in damage meant to be with the attribute damage modifier or purely the die?
I'm curious because it does affect a few of the abilities that are by the book.
If it's meant to be without the attribute modifier then you've actually lowered the damage that certain ones that are primarily book based for most levels. Even though you've increased the number of dice rolled for them. Water Whip and unbroken Air for example have an average damage of 15 base from their 3d10 (slightly higher if you want to get nitpicky about .5's). But with your system at level 3 your looking at only about 8 damage starting out at tier 1 instead but your looking at 20 average damage base at level 17.
Was this intentional or was the attribute modifier supposed to e added in as well in your listings of MA dice? which changes the math by a lot (and increases the damage that they do overall even at low level).
Thanks for the reply. My intent was that the Elemental Discipline martial arts die (dMA) was without any ability modifier, the same as Water Whip and Unbroken Air that you mention. And that as your martial arts die increases, so does the damage. So Water Whip would be 4d4 at level 3, 4d6 at level 5. Then you can increase damage by spending ki to 5d6 at 6th level, 6d8 at 11th level, and 7d10 at 17th level.
But I see your point. Would you suggest increasing the number of die rolled to make up for the lower damage die? Or do you have other suggestions?
It was just my thinking that in the PHB version, with their upcasting ki point limits, Water Whip does 3d10 at 3rd level, then can be upcast to 4d10 5th-8th, 5d10 9th-12th, 6d10 13th-16th, and 7d10 17th-20th levels. And I tried to keep my version so it ended up at the same point (7d10) at the end, 17+ level. The upside is my version gets there with only spending 5 Ki total, where Water Whip would be at the 6 Ki max cost. I also worried that I might unbalance the disciplines and tended, at least for my versions of the PHB disciplines, to be more conservative in the damage rolled. Not so sure about my other disciplines.
I guess it's just inherent in using the Martial Arts die (dMA) scaling that some of the PHB disciplines do more damage earlier and my versions do less.
And what are your opinions on the Subclass Features, themselves? I worry I may have made them too powerful. I'm not a designer and they may be out of whack. When I did my own calculations I came up with these average damages. These are based on all attacks hitting, and starting at level 1 with 16 DEX and WIS. And increasing one or the other at ASI's until both were max 20 by level 16. It's broken down by Attack Action and Bonus Action attacks using the Elemental Strikes Feature, and also including a Flurry of Blows column, and a column for the 6th and 17th level subclass features.
Average Damage using Elemental Strikes (ES), Focused ES, with and without Elemental Barrage (EB)
I'm still working through the interactions. And I've still got another thread to get back to on things. I just haven't had the most time right now to do so to figure it out. But without knowing the math it was hard to understand the interactions.
I'm not totally against the way your doing it either. You are making it more fittingly thematic to the way that Monk's work in general with their damage and fits the tonal shift in subclasses over time to try and make things scale with MA dice more.
I'm not sure the damage overall is worse like you mentioned because I didn't know your exact damage calculation so I just started with one basic spot which was the elemental disciplines first then i could figure out what the other abilities do with and without it. But i will get working on that and I see you've done some of the math already.
Well. The math isn't so bad at low levels from what I can tell. I'm still trying to work some of them out. But I might have to do some of this in pieces and we may or may not end up seeing ways it affects other things.
Elemental Strikes is only a couple of points a hit at low levels. Monks are fairly strong in the hitting department but this isn't totally unbalanced.
Higher Levels where a lot of abilities are synergizing and essentially all able to be used at once for almost no cost is where I'm seeing the potential biggest problems. The Damage isn't quite exponential but it does seem to ramp up alot thanks to the increases in MA being applied potentially like 3 times from what I can see. This is mostly an interaction only with Fangs of the Fire Snake and the leveled class abilities and not the other elemental disciplines. With the Reach portion of Fangs of the Fire snake being free there is no real reason not to use reach at all times when you have elemental strikes and there is no good reason not to use elemental strikes. it costs much les ki and is going to give the same damage on average as the additional attack from flurry of blows. it technically does 1 more up level 4. and it's even at 4-7, and 1 less at levels 8-11. But that's close enough to being even. All Assuming that your doing all your Dex ASI's first and Wisdom ASI's second. If your prioritizing Wis with any regularity, Which is looking like still a fairly viable tactic with your version. it stands a chance of pulling ahead and staying ahead of FoB in terms of damage.
When you take all of this together at practically no cost. The possibility of spike damage becomes really high. It can cost a fair bit of ki to do but it is there. When combined with Focused Elemental strikes you can be talking anywhere from 4d6 without needing of flurry of blows at level 6 in additional damage (effectively a 7th level backstab though the damage is technically spread out over 3 hits) to 8d10 additional damage in a turn at level 17 with flurry of blows. You have accounted for one die of this damage already in the varied level damage chart but 3d6 to 7d10 of this damage is not accounted for. And while it's is not sustainable. It is something to consider. Particularly with the fairly high damage that is being put out already from the normal attacks.
This is the one interaction that stood out to me most as being too much, But it's kind of a combination of interactions and it's more noticable at higher levels.
now Ways that this might be addressed will have to be thought about. But basic thoughts for me is to potentially remove the damage component from Fangs of the Fire Snake since just giving it a cost will only slow down the abuse unless it's so prohibitive it almost makes it pointless. And you could justify doing this because it's damage is kind of built into the combination of the Elemental Strike and Focused Elemental STrike abilities but better already, with the exception of the Reach component of course. But it is probably something to consider addressing just because it's high sustained melee damage and then effectively the damage of a strong spell (even though it is split up over several attacks) all in the same round off of one character.
i still need to look over other things like i said but with just light reading they look a lot more reasonable overall. And some of them might need some testing to really know how they perform.
Thank you for the detailed response. I'm not a "numbers" guy so I appreciate your input. I was just confused on where you say I'm not accounting for 3d6 to 7d10 damage. I thought I had everything accounted for in my chart, but I'm sure I could have missed something. I assume it is because I'm not counting Fang of the Fire Snake in the damage chart. I hadn't considered that combo except for the fact that I kept it at 1dMA extra max and not scalable like some of the other disciplines. I guess I hadn't considered that someone might use it every hit because of the ki cost. But for a nova round I guess some might.
I like the idea of FotFS having reach, but maybe it should have a ki cost, or possibly limited use based on Proficiency Bonus or ability modifier or even once per short or long rest for free, then ki point cost afterward.
Thank you for the detailed response. I'm not a "numbers" guy so I appreciate your input. I was just confused on where you say I'm not accounting for 3d6 to 7d10 damage. I thought I had everything accounted for in my chart, but I'm sure I could have missed something. I assume it is because I'm not counting Fang of the Fire Snake in the damage chart. I hadn't considered that combo except for the fact that I kept it at 1dMA extra max and not scalable like some of the other disciplines. I guess I hadn't considered that someone might use it every hit because of the ki cost. But for a nova round I guess some might.
I like the idea of FotFS having reach, but maybe it should have a ki cost, or possibly limited use based on Proficiency Bonus or ability modifier or even once per short or long rest for free, then ki point cost afterward.
yes. it's because Fangs of the Fire snake potential damage is not accounted for. It's reasonable that your chart didn't account for it. And i was referencing how the chart did actually account for much of the rest of the abilities.
Fangs of the Fire Snake providing reach is not a problem for me. Using it all the time is kind of a minor issue. it's really give or take. Just means that a monk would have to disengage a whole lot less but that's not necessarily a bad thing at all either. Though I don't think I mentioned it. Elemental Strike should probably absolutely over-write fangs of the Fire snake's damage type when it is active instead of letting it be an can replace it interaction. I'm of a mind when your channeling elemental energies they should often be all of the same type. Specially if they are not some kind of outright spell with all the extra limitations that spells have. But that's somewhat ofa personal grievance.
The only big issue for Fangs of the fire snake really is the large amount of damage that it can toss on top. Specially at higher levels regardless of ki costs in that one instance.
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Ok, so with some additional thought and some advice on this thread I went back and revised my thoughts on the 4E Monk. I put the original post in a Spoilers tag at the bottom, so if you feel like looking at that post it is there. I also put a couple notes in post #8 explaining some choices.
This will be a long post so bear with me. I decided to use subclass features to augment unarmed strikes and the elemental disciplines to add flavor, damage, and some control, buffs, etc...
I'm not sure if the ki point expenditures are balanced or if the damage is, so feel free to let me know what you think.
Way of the Four Elements Monk – Another Take v2.0
I made some changes to the language (italicized and in this color) as it seemed a bit confusing. Plus my writing skills are lacking so hope this all makes sense. Thanks.
At 3 Level you gain the following Subclass Features
Elemental Strikes – You channel your Ki and imbue your unarmed strikes with the power of the Four Elements. You spend 1 Ki, then choose one elemental damage type, Bludgeoning (Earth), Cold (Water), Fire (Fire), Thunder (Air) and for 1 minute your unarmed strikes deal additional elemental damage equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Elemental Attunement – You can use your action to briefly control elemental forces within 30 feet of you, causing one of the following effects of your choice:
Disciple of the Elements – You learn magical disciplines that harness the power of the four elements. Some disciplines require you to spend ki points each time you use it.
You know two elemental disciplines of your choice, which are detailed in the “Elemental Disciplines” section below. You learn one additional elemental discipline of your choice at 6, 11, and 17 level. When an Elemental Discipline lists a number of damage dice rolled equal to your Martial Arts die it will be described as 1dMA for 1 roll of your Martial Arts die, 2dMA for 2 rolls of your Martial Arts die, etc…
Whenever you learn a new elemental discipline, you can also replace one elemental discipline that you already know with a different one.
Focused Elemental Strikes – At 6 level, when you use your Elemental Strikes feature, you can focus the element chosen into a deadly strike. Once per turn, while the Elemental Strikes feature is active, you can deal additional elemental damage equal to one roll of your Martial Arts die (1dMA).
In addition, while your Elemental Strikes feature is active you gain resistance to the damage type chosen (bludgeoning, cold, fire, or thunder).
Harness the Wind – At 11 level, you cause the wind to swirl around you and lift you from the ground. You gain a flying speed equal to your walking speed, and you can hover.
Also, you are protected by the swirling winds that carry you. All ranged attacks against you are made at disadvantage.
This feature lasts for 10 minutes and can be used a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus per long rest, or by spending 3 ki points.
Elemental Barrage – At 17 level you bring forth the forces of nature into a devastating barrage of elemental fury. When you have your Elemental Strikes feature active, you can activate your Elemental Barrage. When you take the attack action, you can make three additional unarmed strikes and the additional elemental damage caused by the Elemental Strikes feature is equal to two times your Wisdom modifier.
You can use this feature only once per turn. And you can use it a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus per long rest.
Elemental Disciplines – The Elemental Disciplines are listed by the Monk level prerequisite to select the discipline. You can select disciplines from a lower level’s list, but you cannot select disciplines with a level prerequisite higher than your Monk level.
A discipline that allows you to increase the number of rolls of your Martial Arts die is based on your Monk level, not your character level. The amount of the increase, and additional ki cost, over the base discipline cost, is listed in the discipline's description.
Prerequisite: 3 Level Way of the Four Elements Monk
Fangs of the Fire Snake – When you use the Attack action on your turn, you cause tendrils of flame to stretch out from your fists and feet. Your reach with your unarmed strikes increases by 10 feet for that action, as well as the rest of the turn. A hit with such an attack deals fire damage instead of bludgeoning damage, and if you spend 1 ki point when the attack hits, it also deals extra fire damage equal to 1dMA.
If your Elemental Strikes feature is active, you can change the damage type from Fire to the damage type chosen for that feature.
Fist of Unbroken Air – You can create a blast of compressed air that strikes like a mighty fist. As an action, you can spend 2 ki points and choose a creature within 30 feet of you. That creature must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 4dMA Thunder damage, and you can push the creature up to 20 feet away from you and knock it prone. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage, and you don’t push it or knock it prone. You can increase the damage to 5dMA at 6th level by spending 1 additional ki point, 6dMA at 11th level by spending 2 additional ki points, and 7dMA at 17th level by spending 3 additional ki points.
Protection of the Mountain – When you take damage from a creature you can see, within 30 feet of you, you can use your reaction to reduce the damage taken by 2dMA plus your Monk level. You can use this discipline a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier. You can increase the reduction to 3dMA plus your Monk level at 6th level by spending 1 additional ki point, 4dMA plus your Monk level at 11th level by spending 2 additional ki points, and 5dMA plus your Monk level at 17th level by spending 3 additional ki points.
Shape the Flowing River – as per Player’s Handbook
Shards of the Winter Storm – As an action, you spend 2 ki points and your ki manifests into 3 razor sharp shards of ice that you can throw in one sweeping motion at one or more creatures within 60 feet of you. The shards can take any shape desired, icy darts, daggers, shuriken, arrows, etc. Make a ranged attack roll for each shard. On a hit, a target takes 1dMA Cold damage and has disadvantage on it’s next attack roll. You can increase the damage of each shard to 2dMA at 6th level by spending 1 additional ki point, 3dMA at 11th level by spending 2 additional ki points, and 4dMA at 17th level by spending 3 additional ki points.
Water Whip – You can spend 2 ki points as an action to create a whip of water that shoves and pulls a creature to unbalance it. A creature that you can see that is within 30 feet of you must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 4dMA Cold damage, and you can either knock it prone or pull it up to 25 feet closer to you. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage, and you don’t pull it or knock it prone. You can increase the damage to 5dMA at 6th level by spending 1 additional ki point, 6dMA at 11th level by spending 2 additional ki points, and 7dMA at 17th level by spending 3 additional ki points.
Prerequisite: 6 Level Way of the Four Elements Monk
Balm of Clear Waters – As an action, you can spend 3 ki points and a calm soothing mist swirls around you in a 15-foot radius. The mist moves with you and is centered on you. You can use a bonus action and heal one creature within the mist for 2dMA hit points. This effect lasts for 1 minute or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell).
Bindings of the Four Winds – You call forth the Four Winds to hamper your enemies. As an action, you spend 3 ki points and create a 30-foot sphere of lashing winds at a point you can see within 120 feet of you. Each creature that enters the sphere or starts it’s turn there, must make a Strength saving throw or be restrained. A restrained creature can attempt to break free of their airy bonds by succeeding on a Strength saving throw at the start of their turn (I changed this from end to start of their turn otherwise, if they broke free at the end of their turn they could get stuck in an endless loop without a chance to do anything). On the turn this discipline is used, and on subsequent turns, you can use your bonus action to cause the air around the restrained creatures to boom with thunderous energy. Each restrained creature takes 2dMA Thunder damage. You can increase the damage to 3dMA at 11th level by spending 1 additional ki point, and 4dMA at 17th level by spending 2 additional ki points. The effect lasts for 1 minute or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell).
Mountain Stance – You become as immovable and as durable as the mountains themselves. As a reaction, you cannot be forcibly moved from the space you are occupying. You can willingly allow yourself to be moved. And, if you spend 3 ki points, you gain resistance to nonmagical Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing Damage. The damage resistance lasts for 1 minute.
Steps of the Xorn – Your movements become one with the earth. You can move across difficult terrain made of earth or stone without expending extra movement. As a bonus action, when standing on nonmagical unworked earth and stone, choose an unoccupied space that you can see within 30 feet of you, which is also unworked earth and stone, and spend 2 ki points. You sink completely into the earth and stone and instantaneously reemerge from the earth and stone, in the chosen unoccupied space.
Strike of the Ember Crane – As an action, you spend 3 ki points and your ki manifests as three fiery embers which you can hurl at one or more targets within 60 feet. Make a ranged attack roll for each ember. On a hit, the target takes 2dMA fire damage and the ember explodes. The target, and each creature within 5 feet of the target must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 1dMA fire damage from the exploding ember. You can increase the damage to 3dMA and 2dMA exploding damage at 11th level by spending 1 additional ki point, and 4dMA and 3dMA exploding damage at 17th level by spending 2 additional ki points.
Prerequisite: 11 level Way of the Four Elements Monk
Dancing of the Flame – As an action, you spend 3 ki points and choose one creature you can see within 120 feet. The creature is wreathed in flames and must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 8dMA fire damage and the creature remains on fire for the discipline’s duration. While on fire, the creature uses all its movement to move in a random direction. To determine the direction, roll a d8 and assign a direction to each die face. The creature doesn’t take an action on its turn. On a successful save the creature takes half as much damage and does not remain on fire. At the end of each of its turns, the creature repeats the saving throw. It takes 4dMA fire damage on a failed save, and the effect ends on a successful one. The effect lasts for 1 minute or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell)
Song of the Winter Wolf – As an action, you spend 3 ki points and unleash a blast of cold in a 15-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, they take 6dMA Cold damage. Also, their speed is reduced by 10 feet, and they cannot take reactions until the end of your next turn. On a successful save, they take half as much damage, their speed is not reduced, and they can take reactions as normal. You can increase the damage to 7dMA by spending 1 additional ki point at level 17.
Tremors of the Rolling Earth – As an action, you spend 3 ki points and strike the ground. A tremor wave 5 feet wide travels out from you in a straight line toward a point that you can see within 120-feet. Any creature in a space the wave travels through must make a Dexterity saving throw or be knocked prone. When the wave reaches the target point it expands outward in a 30 foot radius. Tendrils of stone explode out from the ground and batter any creature you choose, in the area. Chosen creatures in the area must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 8dMA Bludgeoning damage and are Incapacitated until the start of your next turn. On a successful save, the creatures take half as much damage and are not Incapacitated.
Wind of the Clear Skies – You use your ki to infuse a creature with cleansing air. As a Bonus Action, you spend 3 ki points and choose a willing creature within 30 feet. You can remove on of the following conditions: blinded, charmed, deafened, frightened, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned.
Prerequisite: 17 level Way of the Four Elements Monk
Maelstrom of the Elements – As an action, you spend 5 ki points and create a maelstrom of elemental fury that swirls around you in a 30-foot radius centered on you. Your speed is reduced to zero while you maintain the effect and you can designate any number of creatures you can see to be unaffected by it. An affected creature’s speed is halved in the area. Choose an elemental damage type (bludgeoning, cold, fire, thunder) and when a creature enters the area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it must make a constitution saving throw or take 8dMA damage of the type chosen. On a successful save a creature takes half as much damage. The effect lasts for 1 minute or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell).
You can use this feature once per long rest.
Ever since 1st edition AD&D, monks have been my favorite class. Unfortunately, I have yet to play one in 5E, but it will probably be my next character. Reading and participating in several Four Element Monk threads I decided to take a shot at revising the subclass.
First, let me say that this is still a work in progress and I am not claiming that it is balanced. I am looking for peoples thoughts and advice.
Second, I got rid of all spell casting disciplines and I never thought they fit with the subclass. Unique disciplines like Fangs of the Fire Snake, Fist of Unbroken Air, Shape the Flowing River, and Water Whip I kept. And I am creating unique disciplines for each of the four elements at 3rd, 6th, 11th, and 17th level to choose from (still work in progress)
Third, I added actual Class Features at 3rd, 6th, 11th, and 17th level that you gain in addition to the Elemental Disciplines you gain at those levels.
Fourth, to try to keep with the four elements theme (Earth, Water, Fire, Air) I am using four damage types. Bludgeoning (Earth), Cold (Water), Fire (Fire, of course), and Thunder (Air)
Ok, so here we go: Way of the Four Elements - another take
Disciple of the Elements
When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you learn magical disciplines that harness the power of the four elements. Some disciplines require you to spend ki points each time you use it.
You know the Elemental Discipline Fangs of the Fire Snake. In addition, you know one other elemental discipline of your choice, which are detailed in the “Elemental Disciplines” section below. You learn one additional elemental discipline of your choice at 6th, 11th, and 17th level.
Whenever you learn a new elemental discipline, you can also replace one elemental discipline that you already know with a different discipline.
Empowered Elemental Disciplines
Once you reach 5th level in this class, you can spend additional ki points to empower an elemental discipline. The Elemental Discipline description will list what benefits you gain for each additional ki point you spend.
The maximum number of ki points you can spend on an Elemental Discipline (including the Elemental Discipline’s base cost) is determined by your monk level, as shown in the Elemental Discipline and Ki Points table.
Elemental Discipline and Ki Points
Monk Levels
Maximum Ki Points for an Elemental Discipline
5th–8th
3
9th–12th
4
13th–16th
6
17th–20th
8
Elemental Disciplines
The elemental disciplines are presented by the level they become available. If a discipline requires a level, you must be that level in this class to learn the discipline.
3 Level
Fangs of the Fire Snake (revised)
When you use the Attack action on your turn, you cause tendrils of flame to stretch out from your fists and feet. Your reach with your unarmed strikes increases by 10 feet for that action, as well as the rest of the turn. A hit with such an attack deals fire damage instead of bludgeoning damage, and if you spend 1 ki point when the attack hits, it also deals an extra 1d10 fire damage. At 5th level you can increase this damage by spending additional Ki points up to the limit on the Elemental Discipline and Ki Points table. Each additional ki point adds 1d10 fire damage.
Fist of Unbroken Air (same)
You can create a blast of compressed air that strikes like a mighty fist. As an action, you can spend 2 ki points and choose a creature within 30 feet of you. That creature must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 3d10 bludgeoning damage, plus an extra 1d10 bludgeoning damage for each additional ki point you spend, and you can push the creature up to 20 feet away from you and knock it prone. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage, and you don’t push it or knock it prone.
Protection of the Mountain (new)
When you take damage from a creature you can see within 30 feet of you, you can spend 1 ki point and use your reaction to reduce the damage taken by two rolls of your martial arts die plus your monk level.
Shape the Flowing River (same)
As an action, you can spend 1 ki point to choose an area of ice or water no larger than 30 feet on a side within 120 feet of you. You can change water to ice within the area and vice versa, and you can reshape ice in the area in any manner you choose. You can raise or lower the ice’s elevation, create or fill in a trench, erect or flatten a wall, or form a pillar. The extent of any such changes can’t exceed half the area’s largest dimension. For example, if you affect a 30-foot square, you can create a pillar up to 15 feet high, raise or lower the square’s elevation by up to 15 feet, dig a trench up to 15 feet deep, and so on. You can’t shape the ice to trap or damage a creature in the area.
Water Whip (same)
You can spend 2 ki points as an action to create a whip of water that shoves and pulls a creature to unbalance it. A creature that you can see that is within 30 feet of you must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 3d10 bludgeoning damage, plus an extra 1d10 bludgeoning damage for each additional ki point you spend, and you can either knock it prone or pull it up to 25 feet closer to you. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage, and you don’t pull it or knock it prone.
6 Level
Arctic Touch (new)
You imbue your unarmed attacks with the icy cold of the arctic. You spend 2 ki points, and until the start of your next turn, your unarmed strikes deal and extra 1d6 cold damage. In addition, any target hit must make a constitution saving throw or be slowed by the numbing touch. On a failed save, their speed is reduced by 10 feet and they cannot use reactions until the end of their next turn.
Bindings of the Four Winds (new)
You call forth the Four Winds to hamper your enemies. As an action, you spend 3 ki points and lashing winds reach out in a 30 foot radius, centered on you. Choose a number of creatures, within range, equal to your Wisdom modifier. Those creatures must make a Strength saving throw or be restrained. A restrained creature can attempt to break free of their airy bonds by succeeding on a Strength saving throw at the end of their turn. On subsequent turns, you can use your bonus action to squeeze restrained creatures dealing bludgeoning damage equal to two rolls of your martial arts die. The effect lasts for 1 minute, or you can end it early by using a bonus action.
Mountain Stance (new)
You become as immovable and as durable as the mountains themselves. As an action, you spend 3 ki points and you cannot be forcibly moved from the space you are occupying. You can willingly allow yourself to be moved. You also gain resistance to nonmagical Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing damage. This effect lasts for 1 minute.
Strike of the Ember Crane (new)
As an action, you spend 3 ki points and your ki manifests as three fiery embers which you can hurl at one or more targets within 120 feet. Make a ranged attack roll for each ember. On a hit, the target takes 2d6 fire damage and the ember explodes. Each creature within 5 feet of the target must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 1d6 fire damage from the exploding ember.
This is as far as I got creating new Elemental Disciplines so far
Class Features
In addition to the Elemental Disciplines, you gain the following Class Features at 3rd, 6th, 11th, and 17th level.
Elemental Attunement (same) Now a class feature instead of an Elemental Discipline
At 3rd level, you can use your action to briefly control elemental forces within 30 feet of you, causing one of the following effects of your choice:
Elemental Strikes
At 6th level you channel your ki to imbue the elements into your strikes. You spend 1 ki point and choose an elemental damage type (bludgeoning, cold, fire, or thunder). Your unarmed strikes deal additional damage, of the type chosen, equal to your Wisdom modifier. The effect lasts for 1 minute.
Harness the Wind
At 11th level, you cause the air around you to swirl and lift you from the ground. You gain a flying speed equal to your walking speed. And you can hover. You can also spend 2 ki points to grant a flying speed equal to yours, to a willing creature of medium size or smaller. They must stay within 30 feet of you or lose the ability to fly.
Also, you, and any creature you grant a fly speed to is protected by the swirling winds that carry you. All ranged attacks against you are made at Disadvantage.
This feature lasts for 10 minutes. And you can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, or by spending 2 ki points.
Elemental Barrage
At 17th level you bring forth the forces of nature. When you use your Elemental Strikes feature, you can activate your Elemental Barrage for one turn, and make three additional unarmed strikes as part of your attack action. The bonus damage from Elemental Strikes becomes two times your Wisdom modifier.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, per long rest.
Let me know what you think. Any advice on if it’s too OP or too weak. Is it something I should continue that you would find interesting. Or should I just scrap the idea altogether. Thanks
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Overall I like it. Im a big fan of any revision or rework which gives the four elements monk more subclass features to play with. One thing that does stick out to me as odd is that in your version everyone starts with Fangs of the Fire Snake, as opposed to getting to choose which "element" you want to start with.
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I had considered giving two choices at 3rd level and nothing automatically assigned. But I revised Fist of the Fire Snake to be free to use and only adding damage cost Ki. So right out the gate you have an elemental attack with reach that does Fire damage.
Edit: I also tried to keep the new disciplines in a pattern of:
fire disciplines are primarily damage.
earth primarily defense.
air primarily control.
water/ice primarily debuff
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
When I first responded, I didn't catch your meaning. I was at work on break and was short on time. But I see what your saying if someone wanted to play a cold based 4E monk why would they have fire damage. I like the idea of having that choice so I may revise it to choosing your damage type instead of it being just fire. And it would stack with the 6th level class feature with elemental damage. Or it could just be pick two ED's to start. I want to add more, but haven't had time. Will try to update and add stuff soon.
Question I have for those who are interested, is it a good or bad thing to break down the disciplines by Fire/Damage, Earth/Defense, Water&Ice/Debuff, and Air/Control primarily with some minor damage (other than fire which is primarily damage)? And using Fire=Fire Damage, Earth=Bludgeoning damage, Air=Thunder damage, Water=Cold damage? I know Fist of Unbroken Air and Water Whip both do Bludgeoning damage and I was thinking of changing those damage types to Thunder and Cold respectively.
Thanks.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I think that could work. I've always also liked the idea of water having natural "healing" properties to it, so I could see a water based ED that has a similar effect to something like Lesser Restoration as well if you wanted to further flesh out options
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I didn't go through everything in detail, just enough to get an idea of where you are headed. I like what you've done with fangs of the fire snake, but I really do think you should have a choice for each element instead of forcing the player into fire... Starting off your subclass by picking one of four abilties that can enhance your basic attacks would be very flavorful and cool.. You're sorta already heading there with the Elemental Strikes features, which is very cool, but I don't like forcing the player to be fire themed, as I would personally like to focus my own four elements monk around a single element.
Some other things I noted;
Most, if not all of the abilities still rely on Ki usage, which is a shame in my opinion. Almost every other class get features from their subclasses optop of their existing resources, abilities they can freely use without tapping into the resource that fuels their class abilities... An arcane trickster gets spell slots, a soul knife gets psionic dice.. So why does the four elements monk have to spend their ki everytime the want to take advanage of their subclass? My conjuration wizard doesn't have to spend spell slots for minor conjuration.. It's not that I mind the usage of KI, but I think there's an inherent problem in simply creating a larger Ki drain for the monk.
I mean look at the battlemaster fighter, they get so many cool options, and they don't take away from the fighter's base ability set... Imagine if the fighter's third attack relied on using the same resource as the battlemaster techniques, that would suck.. Honestly I think building every monk sublcass feature around ki usage should be reconsidered... why not make some of abilities that are simply "use whenever you feel like using them" like the echo knight... Or have their usage rely on wisdom.
I think there's a lack of other actions than the standard action. I think you have a reaction in there, aswell as some of the more interesting ones that mix into your attacks.. But there are no bonus actions, and you could certainly use another reaction ability or two. This is definately my personal bias, but I generally don't like the idea of a monk stopping their martial arts entirely to pull off an elemental ability.. I'd much rather see it mixed into bonus actions, reactions or attack actions... Not that regular action abilties don't belong, but I think you're relying on them too much.
I also think I would look into how these abilities scale with levels. Perhaps use martial arts dice some more, that way your monk will feel like they're progressively getting stronger across the board, instead of getting the same numbers from fangs of the fire snake they got at lvl three... I understand you can upcast a lot of these abilities, but since you're using Ki as a resource, and a monk does not scale their ki pool very well, I'd consider a free form of scaling aswell.
As for tying specific elements to speific damage types, I don't think its' necessary.. Obviously fire stuff is often going to deal fire damage, but there's no reason to limit yourself entirely... I'd probably structure is more like this 1st discipline option = Attack action upgrade of each element, 2nd option = utility based option from each element ect... I think having earth only being defensive would be a shame... But that's just me.
Edit: It looks like the non discipline class features are more open to not relying on ki-usage, which is nice... I would probably elimnate ki usage from those features entirely. Perhaps have Elemental Strkes be wisdom/long rest?
I realise I threw like 100 ideas at you, I don't expect you to try and work all of them in, I was merely giving you my thoughts as I was reading through your ideas... I will say that just by adding actual class features ontop of the disciplines, you are making the subclass feel much more like an actual subclass than the original.
Thank you for all of your comments. After Kaboom’s comments I had anticipated reworking my ideas. I had a kernel of an idea but didn’t really work through everything before my initial post, it was some of my first thoughts stemming from comments I made in previous 4E Monk threads. And after your comments I think a rework is in order.
One thing I had considered was moving the Elemental Strikes feature from 6th level to 3rd level so you can start off wielding any element you want. Along with elemental attunement at 3rd. Spending one Ki for one minute of all unarmed strikes doing more damage didn’t seem like it was too burdensome but could modify that.
Then at 6th level boosting the Elemental Strikes feature at no additional cost. I like the idea of class features building on earlier features. Maybe have it once per turn do one or two martial arts die extra elemental damage. Like a Focused Elemental Strike. Mercy monks get hand of harm later for no extra cost over FoB and Hunter Ranger with Colossus Slayer can do extra damage once per turn so it’s not out of line
The Harness the Wind feature was already free, just cost to give others flight, but was thinking of making it self only at no cost.
I do agree that it should be open to element type you want to use so I would probably leave Fist of the Fire snake as per PHB and maybe alter water whip to do cold damage and fist of unbroken air do thunder.
Edit: So in the end I am considering the subclass features as the backbone of the Elemental fighting for all day use so you feel like an elemental monk and the disciplines as adding flavor, damage, control, defense, and debuff. But not tied to a particular element. Varying it up so no matter what element you want to focus on, if you want to focus at all, you have versatility and choices.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Revision notes: I kept Fangs of the Fire Snake to only do 1 roll of the martial arts die (1dMA) and not "upcastable" because it stacks with the level 3, 6, and 17 subclass features. I tried to keep balance in mind, but I'm not a designer so things could be out of whack.
And, yes, the disciplines use ki so that still could be an issue with 4E monks, but I tried to keep it to a minimum and because the 3rd level subclass feature only uses 1 ki for a full minute of use (at least one combat most likely) and the level 6 and level 17 boost to that 3rd level subclass feature are free I felt that ki usage on the disciplines was ok.
Hope you find this interesting and let me know what you think or if you have any suggestions on improvements.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I made a few changes to the language on increasing damage of disciplines. I hope I made it clearer and not more confusing in my attempt. Thanks.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Is your MA die in damage meant to be with the attribute damage modifier or purely the die?
I'm curious because it does affect a few of the abilities that are by the book.
If it's meant to be without the attribute modifier then you've actually lowered the damage that certain ones that are primarily book based for most levels. Even though you've increased the number of dice rolled for them. Water Whip and unbroken Air for example have an average damage of 15 base from their 3d10 (slightly higher if you want to get nitpicky about .5's). But with your system at level 3 your looking at only about 8 damage starting out at tier 1 instead but your looking at 20 average damage base at level 17.
Was this intentional or was the attribute modifier supposed to e added in as well in your listings of MA dice? which changes the math by a lot (and increases the damage that they do overall even at low level).
Thanks for the reply. My intent was that the Elemental Discipline martial arts die (dMA) was without any ability modifier, the same as Water Whip and Unbroken Air that you mention. And that as your martial arts die increases, so does the damage. So Water Whip would be 4d4 at level 3, 4d6 at level 5. Then you can increase damage by spending ki to 5d6 at 6th level, 6d8 at 11th level, and 7d10 at 17th level.
But I see your point. Would you suggest increasing the number of die rolled to make up for the lower damage die? Or do you have other suggestions?
It was just my thinking that in the PHB version, with their upcasting ki point limits, Water Whip does 3d10 at 3rd level, then can be upcast to 4d10 5th-8th, 5d10 9th-12th, 6d10 13th-16th, and 7d10 17th-20th levels. And I tried to keep my version so it ended up at the same point (7d10) at the end, 17+ level. The upside is my version gets there with only spending 5 Ki total, where Water Whip would be at the 6 Ki max cost. I also worried that I might unbalance the disciplines and tended, at least for my versions of the PHB disciplines, to be more conservative in the damage rolled. Not so sure about my other disciplines.
I guess it's just inherent in using the Martial Arts die (dMA) scaling that some of the PHB disciplines do more damage earlier and my versions do less.
And what are your opinions on the Subclass Features, themselves? I worry I may have made them too powerful. I'm not a designer and they may be out of whack. When I did my own calculations I came up with these average damages. These are based on all attacks hitting, and starting at level 1 with 16 DEX and WIS. And increasing one or the other at ASI's until both were max 20 by level 16. It's broken down by Attack Action and Bonus Action attacks using the Elemental Strikes Feature, and also including a Flurry of Blows column, and a column for the 6th and 17th level subclass features.
Thanks for any advice.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I'm still working through the interactions. And I've still got another thread to get back to on things. I just haven't had the most time right now to do so to figure it out. But without knowing the math it was hard to understand the interactions.
I'm not totally against the way your doing it either. You are making it more fittingly thematic to the way that Monk's work in general with their damage and fits the tonal shift in subclasses over time to try and make things scale with MA dice more.
I'm not sure the damage overall is worse like you mentioned because I didn't know your exact damage calculation so I just started with one basic spot which was the elemental disciplines first then i could figure out what the other abilities do with and without it. But i will get working on that and I see you've done some of the math already.
Well. The math isn't so bad at low levels from what I can tell. I'm still trying to work some of them out. But I might have to do some of this in pieces and we may or may not end up seeing ways it affects other things.
Elemental Strikes is only a couple of points a hit at low levels. Monks are fairly strong in the hitting department but this isn't totally unbalanced.
Higher Levels where a lot of abilities are synergizing and essentially all able to be used at once for almost no cost is where I'm seeing the potential biggest problems. The Damage isn't quite exponential but it does seem to ramp up alot thanks to the increases in MA being applied potentially like 3 times from what I can see. This is mostly an interaction only with Fangs of the Fire Snake and the leveled class abilities and not the other elemental disciplines. With the Reach portion of Fangs of the Fire snake being free there is no real reason not to use reach at all times when you have elemental strikes and there is no good reason not to use elemental strikes. it costs much les ki and is going to give the same damage on average as the additional attack from flurry of blows. it technically does 1 more up level 4. and it's even at 4-7, and 1 less at levels 8-11. But that's close enough to being even. All Assuming that your doing all your Dex ASI's first and Wisdom ASI's second. If your prioritizing Wis with any regularity, Which is looking like still a fairly viable tactic with your version. it stands a chance of pulling ahead and staying ahead of FoB in terms of damage.
When you take all of this together at practically no cost. The possibility of spike damage becomes really high. It can cost a fair bit of ki to do but it is there. When combined with Focused Elemental strikes you can be talking anywhere from 4d6 without needing of flurry of blows at level 6 in additional damage (effectively a 7th level backstab though the damage is technically spread out over 3 hits) to 8d10 additional damage in a turn at level 17 with flurry of blows. You have accounted for one die of this damage already in the varied level damage chart but 3d6 to 7d10 of this damage is not accounted for. And while it's is not sustainable. It is something to consider. Particularly with the fairly high damage that is being put out already from the normal attacks.
This is the one interaction that stood out to me most as being too much, But it's kind of a combination of interactions and it's more noticable at higher levels.
now Ways that this might be addressed will have to be thought about. But basic thoughts for me is to potentially remove the damage component from Fangs of the Fire Snake since just giving it a cost will only slow down the abuse unless it's so prohibitive it almost makes it pointless. And you could justify doing this because it's damage is kind of built into the combination of the Elemental Strike and Focused Elemental STrike abilities but better already, with the exception of the Reach component of course. But it is probably something to consider addressing just because it's high sustained melee damage and then effectively the damage of a strong spell (even though it is split up over several attacks) all in the same round off of one character.
i still need to look over other things like i said but with just light reading they look a lot more reasonable overall. And some of them might need some testing to really know how they perform.
Thank you for the detailed response. I'm not a "numbers" guy so I appreciate your input. I was just confused on where you say I'm not accounting for 3d6 to 7d10 damage. I thought I had everything accounted for in my chart, but I'm sure I could have missed something. I assume it is because I'm not counting Fang of the Fire Snake in the damage chart. I hadn't considered that combo except for the fact that I kept it at 1dMA extra max and not scalable like some of the other disciplines. I guess I hadn't considered that someone might use it every hit because of the ki cost. But for a nova round I guess some might.
I like the idea of FotFS having reach, but maybe it should have a ki cost, or possibly limited use based on Proficiency Bonus or ability modifier or even once per short or long rest for free, then ki point cost afterward.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
yes. it's because Fangs of the Fire snake potential damage is not accounted for. It's reasonable that your chart didn't account for it. And i was referencing how the chart did actually account for much of the rest of the abilities.
Fangs of the Fire Snake providing reach is not a problem for me. Using it all the time is kind of a minor issue. it's really give or take. Just means that a monk would have to disengage a whole lot less but that's not necessarily a bad thing at all either. Though I don't think I mentioned it. Elemental Strike should probably absolutely over-write fangs of the Fire snake's damage type when it is active instead of letting it be an can replace it interaction. I'm of a mind when your channeling elemental energies they should often be all of the same type. Specially if they are not some kind of outright spell with all the extra limitations that spells have. But that's somewhat ofa personal grievance.
The only big issue for Fangs of the fire snake really is the large amount of damage that it can toss on top. Specially at higher levels regardless of ki costs in that one instance.