I never played a Paladin, i played with my cousin who played oath of the crown and it sounded pretty nice. So i decided to look at the list and the only one that appealed to me and didn't sound very generic (Just a personal opinion) until i saw Oath of Conquest.
I like the concept of it and the spells that comes with it. Any tips for personality for it? I mean i don't want to be hated by my group just for wanting to dominate my enemies nor i want the typical a man with golden shiny armor. My idea currently is having a White Dragonborn Viking like that wants his own kingdom.
I'd even appreciate having stats tips too along with weapons and all.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
When this came out, I found a lot of people had an issue with this particular subclass. Most notably on how to play it if you are a "good" character, since to many it seemed very much like the kind of subclass a more "evil" aligned character would have. And considering your remark about being hated by your group, it's probably safe to say this will be an ongoing issue until better clarifications are made.
As for any tips on how to play such a subclass, I'd look to characters in fiction who capitalize on their opponents fear. With obvious examples of this being Batman, Ghost Rider, Sinestro and Judge Dredd. Though considering your backstory, I'd suggest looking to Conan as a muse. Choosing to focus more on the conquest aspect to the subclass versus it's fear components, which could easily be viewed as a byproduct for such a driven warrior. And in addition you might want to take a look at Khal Drogo as well, who coincidentally was played by an actor who also has played Conan.
There's a couple ways to do this. One, since you're going dragonborn... just talk about how fear is a natural extension of draconic ability. Its a classic dragon trick. especially if you take the dragonfear aura feat.
Two, the Oath of Conquest is actually not that different from what police do. You establish order. You keep order, and if someone breaks the law, retribution must be swift to make people think that breaking the law is a bad idea. "Douse the flame of hope" - hope is a dangerous thing for villains to have. If they think they can get away with something, they will try. Make it clear they won't get away, and people as a whole will be safer. "Rule with an iron fist." What do you think happens when you get arrested? Don't abuse prisoners, but they still have to obey you. They've literally had their freedom taken away to protect the lawful. "Strength Above All" - law enforcement reelies on the illusion that you can't beat the police. That's why they need to appear strong and unbeatable - that illusion keeps potential lawbreakers in line. If someone stronger appears, you need to show that no one beats the law.
Point out that you're making your oath to someone who's NOT evil. Dark power is not the same as evil. its how said power is used.
Mostly, it all comes down to only using your abilities on people who are a danger to others or break the law in some way. Be honorable and kind towards people.
When this came out, I found a lot of people had an issue with this particular subclass. Most notably on how to play it if you are a "good" character, since to many it seemed very much like the kind of subclass a more "evil" aligned character would have. And considering your remark about being hated by your group, it's probably safe to say this will be an ongoing issue until better clarifications are made.
As for any tips on how to play such a subclass, I'd look to characters in fiction who capitalize on their opponents fear. With obvious examples of this being Batman, Ghost Rider, Sinestro and Judge Dredd. Though considering your backstory, I'd suggest looking to Conan as a muse. Choosing to focus more on the conquest aspect to the subclass versus it's fear components, which could easily be viewed as a byproduct for such a driven warrior. And in addition you might want to take a look at Khal Drogo as well, who coincidentally was played by an actor who also has played Conan.
I'll read into your sources, but being too lawful in a group with a rogue for example can be hard to deal with. any tips when it comes to that?
There's a couple ways to do this. One, since you're going dragonborn... just talk about how fear is a natural extension of draconic ability. Its a classic dragon trick. especially if you take the dragonfear aura feat.
Two, the Oath of Conquest is actually not that different from what police do. You establish order. You keep order, and if someone breaks the law, retribution must be swift to make people think that breaking the law is a bad idea. "Douse the flame of hope" - hope is a dangerous thing for villains to have. If they think they can get away with something, they will try. Make it clear they won't get away, and people as a whole will be safer. "Rule with an iron fist." What do you think happens when you get arrested? Don't abuse prisoners, but they still have to obey you. They've literally had their freedom taken away to protect the lawful. "Strength Above All" - law enforcement reelies on the illusion that you can't beat the police. That's why they need to appear strong and unbeatable - that illusion keeps potential lawbreakers in line. If someone stronger appears, you need to show that no one beats the law.
Point out that you're making your oath to someone who's NOT evil. Dark power is not the same as evil. its how said power is used.
Mostly, it all comes down to only using your abilities on people who are a danger to others or break the law in some way. Be honorable and kind towards people.
Your explanation is very interesting, i am gonna note it and see if i can make it a base for my character making.
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Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
Tritons make excellent Conquest Paladins while still maintaining their suggested personalities along with Law and/or Good Alignment. If you use the Point Buy for Ability Scores, the Paladin can start at character creation with 16/8/14/8/10/16 or 16/8/16/8/8/16. Dragonborn is close, but I like this Triton build and thought I would suggest it.
It's not just their personality that is a good fit, but also that they can use a Trident as their Spiritual Weapon! The Trident is normally about half as good as a javelin even though it is ten times the price, but not as a Spiritual Weapon!!!
My thought is to give them Defense Fighting Style and utilize two-weapon fighting. Longsword and Scimitar, maybe?
The Triton's Control Air and Water feature scales well with Oath of Conquest, and with the Paladin's Charisma.
I love your idea for a viking esque conquerer. I don't find wanting your own kingdom to be evil at all, and I feel that you should totally go that route. This oath is one of my most favorite (tied with vengeance and ancients) but i really like the spell list so much more, specifically for spiritual weapon. That spell is one of my favorites.
Tritons make excellent Conquest Paladins while still maintaining their suggested personalities along with Law and/or Good Alignment. If you use the Point Buy for Ability Scores, the Paladin can start at character creation with 16/8/14/8/10/16 or 16/8/16/8/8/16. Dragonborn is close, but I like this Triton build and thought I would suggest it.
It's not just their personality that is a good fit, but also that they can use a Trident as their Spiritual Weapon! The Trident is normally about half as good as a javelin even though it is ten times the price, but not as a Spiritual Weapon!!!
My thought is to give them Defense Fighting Style and utilize two-weapon fighting. Longsword and Scimitar, maybe?
The Triton's Control Air and Water feature scales well with Oath of Conquest, and with the Paladin's Charisma.
While the idea sounds cool, i am unable to imagine a good looking Merfolk as to me they look pretty weird tbh. I am a fan of cosmetics and all and the merfolk have yet to strike some awesomeness in me. I'll put some effort into imagining one. But i'd stick out with Dragonborn because dragons are the best! XD
I love your idea for a viking esque conquerer. I don't find wanting your own kingdom to be evil at all, and I feel that you should totally go that route. This oath is one of my most favorite (tied with vengeance and ancients) but i really like the spell list so much more, specifically for spiritual weapon. That spell is one of my favorites.
It's not wanting to build a kingdom is the problem is how do i dominate my enemies without looking like an evil tyrant. Since my group love role playing and playing Evil is kinda... not preferable or most likely will cause a problem.
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Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
Tritons make excellent Conquest Paladins while still maintaining their suggested personalities along with Law and/or Good Alignment. If you use the Point Buy for Ability Scores, the Paladin can start at character creation with 16/8/14/8/10/16 or 16/8/16/8/8/16. Dragonborn is close, but I like this Triton build and thought I would suggest it.
It's not just their personality that is a good fit, but also that they can use a Trident as their Spiritual Weapon! The Trident is normally about half as good as a javelin even though it is ten times the price, but not as a Spiritual Weapon!!!
My thought is to give them Defense Fighting Style and utilize two-weapon fighting. Longsword and Scimitar, maybe?
The Triton's Control Air and Water feature scales well with Oath of Conquest, and with the Paladin's Charisma.
While the idea sounds cool, i am unable to imagine a good looking Merfolk as to me they look pretty weird tbh. I am a fan of cosmetics and all and the merfolk have yet to strike some awesomeness in me. I'll put some effort into imagining one. But i'd stick out with Dragonborn because dragons are the best! XD
I love your idea for a viking esque conquerer. I don't find wanting your own kingdom to be evil at all, and I feel that you should totally go that route. This oath is one of my most favorite (tied with vengeance and ancients) but i really like the spell list so much more, specifically for spiritual weapon. That spell is one of my favorites.
It's not wanting to build a kingdom is the problem is how do i dominate my enemies without looking like an evil tyrant. Since my group love role playing and playing Evil is kinda... not preferable or most likely will cause a problem.
No one is saying dominate your enemies. Once you subjugate them, they are expected to obey your laws. You can rule with an iron fist and not be evil, so long as it is fair. If someone breaks the law, the punishment is the same across your nation
Your marauding dragonborn makes me think of the Eika from Kate Elliots Crown of Stars books. I looked around but there were not many wiki type resources about the Eika, or rather I found none. Even has a similar theme of not just raiding, but making a new place for his people to thrive.
Would your conqueror be making a new realm, protecting his own, perhaps something more Privateer esque, go crush all the pirates and take what was theirs to make you stronger and to protect your home.
A different side would be something like a crusader, going off to fight for glory of the church and to conquer those heathens in the holy land. Don't have to be good or evil to conquer, just have to feel righteous enough about it.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
It's not just their personality that is a good fit, but also that they can use a Trident as their Spiritual Weapon! The Trident is normally about half as good as a javelin even though it is ten times the price, but not as a Spiritual Weapon!!!
My thought is to give them Defense Fighting Style and utilize two-weapon fighting. Longsword and Scimitar, maybe?
The Triton's Control Air and Water feature scales well with Oath of Conquest, and with the Paladin's Charisma.
If you want to capitalize on Spiritual Weapon then you don't want to Two Weapon Fighting.
Because you'll either be using your Bonus Action to attack with your off hand or the Spiritual Weapon. Spiritual Weapon will let you really capitalize on having a Shield or a Great Weapon.
I'm helping a member of my group build one of these right now and we are making a couple of Vikings. He basically has your same mindset.
You are lawful, but no one says who's laws you are following. Build a group, figure out the group dynamic and make your "laws" fit into that. After that you are a conqueror, you don't follow the laws of other rulers, you make your own laws and bring people to them and you crush those that oppose you.
Tritons make excellent Conquest Paladins while still maintaining their suggested personalities along with Law and/or Good Alignment. If you use the Point Buy for Ability Scores, the Paladin can start at character creation with 16/8/14/8/10/16 or 16/8/16/8/8/16. Dragonborn is close, but I like this Triton build and thought I would suggest it.
It's not just their personality that is a good fit, but also that they can use a Trident as their Spiritual Weapon! The Trident is normally about half as good as a javelin even though it is ten times the price, but not as a Spiritual Weapon!!!
My thought is to give them Defense Fighting Style and utilize two-weapon fighting. Longsword and Scimitar, maybe?
The Triton's Control Air and Water feature scales well with Oath of Conquest, and with the Paladin's Charisma.
I like this idea. I instantly see the picture. leads to an expansion-esque Trojan mindset coming from an Atlantis like background origin. visually, I see more of a barnacled Aquaman. Tattooed, very fine scaling, smiting with a trident...
White dragons tend to be savage. I see where the feed can lead to a conqueror mindset. As far as play tips, don't compromise. Stay strong to your tenants and lead your party to your will. think of any other options as the wrong choices. The only choices you have are to decimate and rule with fear and strength. You know no other way to live other than to expand. to expand is to ascend. The more you obtain the stronger you are. The bigger your legacy will be. I'm sure tyrants don't view themselves as tyrants only looking expand their legacy and ideals. Your deity has expected great things of you and you know no other way to earn your seat in your ascension than to claim land and bend civilization to your views.
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Current campaigns - DM - Tomb of Annihilation home game
theory crafter and character builder.
Past campaigns -DM- modern post-apocalypse custom home game.
- Human Paladin, Brazelton - multiple games
- lv 12 Human Ranger, Mattias Shaw - 3.5e Homebrew
My opinion about the oath of conquest is that he represents the true paladin. A fanatic armored knight who will justify any atrocity with the words "in the name of my god" and not the romantic knight who can distinguish absolute evil form absolute good. He will most likely be always lawful to his cultural and religion beliefs. As he gains power he will see himself as a righteous enforcer of the "world of god" and will become more and more intolerant with other beliefs. As a paladin, your wish to do good can lead you to many evil acts...
I've found great synergy with putting together paladin, dragonborn and hexblade. Attack, damage, spell DC and aura DC all based in CHA. The downside is that as a hexblade you cannot use CHA to attacks and dmg if your weapon of choice has the "two-handed propriety". Since all the polearms have the two-handed propriety; no sentinel+polearm mastery!
I look foward to play my oath of conquest paladin... :)
My opinion about the oath of conquest is that he represents the true paladin. A fanatic armored knight who will justify any atrocity with the words "in the name of my god" and not the romantic knight who can distinguish absolute evil form absolute good. He will most likely be always lawful to his cultural and religion beliefs. As he gains power he will see himself as a righteous enforcer of the "world of god" and will become more and more intolerant with other beliefs. As a paladin, your wish to do good can lead you to many evil acts...
I've found great synergy with putting together paladin, dragonborn and hexblade. Attack, damage, spell DC and aura DC all based in CHA. The downside is that as a hexblade you cannot use CHA to attacks and dmg if your weapon of choice has the "two-handed propriety". Since all the polearms have the two-handed propriety; no sentinel+polearm mastery!
I look foward to play my oath of conquest paladin... :)
I agree with your analysis of the Conquest Paladin. I see it as being most probably Lawful Neutral, since they apply what for them as Law regardless of the other factors coming from context or background of the situation the law should be applied to, with the ever-present "threat" or risk to fall into Lawful Evil territory.
As to the hexblade "downside", if you are willing to dip until lvl 3 you can get over the no-two-handed by selecting Pact of the Blade, which specifically bypasses that limitation.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
A Lawful-oriented Hexblade is a lot like an Oath of Conquest Paladin. Especially with Maddening Hex, Thirsting Blade, Improved Pact Weapon, and Eldritch Smite (Level 7 Hexblade).
It really depends on what magical items the party runs across and which ones your character can pick up. If you happen across a Ring of Spell Storing, you've got things like Banishment, Counterspell, Fly, and Phantasmal Killer for the Hexblade on-tap (instead of 2 per short rest). If you don't have a magical item, like not even a Dark Shard Amulet, then by comparison the Conquest Paladin has 0 cantrips but 7 spell slots per long rest to maximize Aid, Find Steed, Hold Person, Lesser Restoration, and Spiritual Weapon. Magical Plate Mail makes the Paladin sing. Rods, staves, and wands make the Hexblade ultra-powerful.
All said, I prefer the Paladin -- especially for the smites. Often you just need a little-extra oomph across several targets in several combats and I'd rather do that with a bunch of Level-1 spells-to smites coming from any spellcaster class compared to Eldritch Smite, which would use 1 of the Hexblade's 2 (or so) total highest-level spell slots. This level of control is penultimate.
Even though the Hexblade's class and subclass features outclass the Channel Divinities of the Conquest Paladin (and even Vengeance Paladin), I still would prefer the Paladin (although both in a party would be super-fun!). My new-ideal would be a Half-Elf (Wood Elf variant for Fleet of Foot) Paladin with two Scimitars and a Ruby of the War Mage. For Hexblade, though, try the Half-Elf Dark Elf variant with a Greatsword and Lightning Lure.
Since the adventure is supposed to start and finish at level 9 I've planned with just 1 level of Hexblade; but that's a good reminder.
The adventure will pass in Eberron, 8000 years Before the Lament, in the "time of monsters". I'll be playing a Large Dragonborn Half-dragon (3/4 Dragon, homebrew).
First definition :an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution| you can use this absolute authority to do anything good or bad, its just that your word is law. Such as Marcus Aurelius.
Overly simplifying, oath of conquest is an end justifies the means kinda guy. It doesn't matter how good you meant to be if you failed. Accomplish the goal, and then use that position/power to make the world right. To fail is to leave the world corrupted/chaotic.
Oath of Conquest definitely has a Lawful Evil leaning by default, but that Leaning isn't at all a hard and fast rule, particularly on the good/evil axis. The fundamental underlying philosophical divide between good conquest paladins and other good paladins comes in their assessment of the fundamental goodness of people. The typical paladin believes that people are fundamentally good and the role of the hero is to act only where necessary to defend societies of good people from either the outside forces of evil monsters or to stop and punish the few malcontent exceptions within society. The Conquest paladin may not believe that people are essentially evil, but they don't believe that they are essentially good either. Most people just follow the path of least resistance, and it is the roll of the Conqueror to ensure that the path of selfishness and chaos faces far, far more resistance than the path of altruistic cooperation. To the Conqueror, there is no fundamental difference between 'civilized' humans, elves, and dwarves and 'monstrous' drow, orcs, and goblins, only that the circumstances of their societies tilt the scales of some towards compassion and others towards cruelty. On the one hand, this mindset can be viewed as darker and more evil because it allows for 'regular' people to be treated with the same methods that other paladins reserve for 'monsters'. On the other hand, the conquest paladin would view it as less evil because they don't just want to kill monsters, they want to bring them into the light (even if it means dragging them against their will).
The good Conqueror isn't just concerned with protecting the good people of society today, they're concerned with protecting them tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after that as well. When an evil warlord gathers the goblin tribes together into a huge horde, the other paladins gather to stop them, slay the warlord, scatter the goblin army back into the wilderness. But what then? The goblins and hobgoblins and bugbears are all still there. They stay in the wilderness, nursing their resentment. The conditions that allowed the warlord to come to power aren't changed, and in a few decades another warlord is marching another evil army towards the capitol, burning another dozen villages along the way before they're stopped. Assuming the next generation's heroes are strong enough to stop them in the first place. A regular paladin who lives long enough to see this pattern might fall to despair, break their oaths of virtue and compassion, forswear goodness altogether, and go on a genocidal rampage to wipe out goblin kind, sacrificing their own morality for the sake of a lasting peace. But even that would prove only temporary as orcs or lizard men or some other force would eventually move in to fill the void the goblins left behind.
The Conqueror sees another solution. Don't wipe out the goblins, but don't just leave them in the hills, either. Conquer them. Become the next warlord to gather the tribes yourself. Speak to them in the language they know - power, violence, domination - but use that language to deliver a message of peace and integration. The riches of civilization that they hunger for can be theirs when they only subjugate themselves to society's laws and come in from the wilderness. Those that don't subjugate themselves will be subjugated by force, and that will be so much less pleasant, so they all just better come along nicely. Oh, sure, centuries of fear and resentment both from the goblins and from the 'normal' people of society will be a barrier, but it's a barrier that can be overcome if you're willing to do what it takes to make both sides fear *you* more than they fear each other.
As for criminal malcontents within society, the oath of conquest demands they be punished, but nothing in the oath demands that said punishment be disproportionate or inhumane, only that *all* criminals be forced to face some form of accountability, be forced to pay some form of restitution. ALL criminals. That's important, because most societies are more than happy to heap punishments on low level criminals, the poor and the destitute forced into crime not by malice but by desperation. What punishment might the good conqueror force upon them? Perhaps some form of public service, in the process providing employment and training. Obligatory military service, perhaps, increasing society's martial strength at the same time.
But where most societies lack the will to punish crime is when the criminals in question are privileged with wealth and power and connections. Guilds, corporations, politicians, nobles, oligarchs. Again and again such figures abuse and break the law to serve their own ends, and forestall justice by buying off those responsible for enforcing it. And this is where the Conquerors insistence that punishment *must* be met out for *all* crimes can actually make them an even greater champion of the downtrodden than a normal paladin. There are no quick payouts without admission of wrongdoing under a Conqueror's watch. If a city guard abuses their authority to harm a civilian, their judge and prosecutor buddies won't be able to just let them off with a slap on the wrist. Where other paladins might look at such miscarriages of justice and think "well, the law has spoken, my hands are tied", the good Conqueror feels no more bound to uphold such injustice than any other paladin would feel when faced with a barbarian warlord ordering wanton executions. If society is corrupt, then the good Conqueror's oath demands that they work their way through strength and intimidation to a position of power from which they can root that corruption out, and put the fear of, if not the gods, then at least the Conqueror into the hearts of those who would otherwise think to abuse their power.
Of all other paladin oaths, the good Conquest paladin would view themselves as having the most in common with the oath of redemption, though they'd consider Redeemers as too naive, a bit too weak. From the Conqueror's perspective, they're both working towards the same ends, with Redeemers providing the carrot and Conquerors serving as the stick. Of course, Redeemers might find the suggestion that they have anything in common with Conquerors repugnant, and would be more likely to view them less as partners in redemption and more as misguided figures in need of redemption themselves.
.....
Note that I'm not saying this whole mindset would be 'good' in the real world, but neither would most things a player party does nor most reasons a player party does them. It could however be good enough to pass as good within a D&D campaign.
@SceptionThis is fantastic. I am planning to play a Fallen Aasimar Oath of Conquest/Hexblade, where I was forcefully made to take a pact with a patron. The pact will twist my mind slightly, and result in a slightly "Punisher" like personality that practices an extreme form of justice that isn't necessarily seen as justice by all. Your explanation really helped me flush out my character concept and gave me a ton of ideas on how to play him. Thanks.
I had a similar Fallen Aasimar Conqueror/Hexblade, Varis was their name, although they chose their pact deliberately, and were morally a bit twisted well before that. Varis's celestial patron was moved to compassion by mortal suffering, but forbidden to interfere directly in mortal affairs, so the bequeathed a portion of their power to a mortal infant in the hope that they would grow to become a champion, showing mortals the path of virtue through their example.
Because of their semi-divine nature, Varis was given over to a remote monestary as a child to prevent them from being corrupted by the evils of the world, and there they were trained to become a paladin. But that sheltered upbringing left Varis woefully naive, and they were unprepared for the sheer magnitude of suffering, corruption, and injustice they encountered when they came of age and began their mission. Oft times their attempts to help would be woefully inadequate, or the victims they saved from one injustice would go on to cause another. Eventually Varis had enough, stopped trying to model proper behavior for the mortals, stopped trusting them, stopped trying to appeal to their better graces, and started turning to violence and intimidation. And that's when they started seeing results, but also when their patron rejected them, that rejection poisoning their bond. But by that point, Varis was alright with that. Their patron may disapprove, but they were too far removed from the mortal world to understand how really bad it was down here, or what extremes would be necessary to move the world in a better direction. In time, Varis was sure, the good they achieved would earn back their patron's approval, and in the mean time the more fearsom aspect caused by the disapproval tainting their bond only contributed to his ability to intimidate and bully the mortal's into line.
That was Varis's backstory as a level 1 paladin. Eventually they would take nine levels of Pally before dipping one of Hexblade. I hadn't firmly planned beyond that - honestly any combination of conquest pally, hexblade, divine soul sorcerer for the remaining 10 levels of the build works exceptionally well depending on what you want out of it. You could even jump into most types of bard or fighter if flavor called for it, though I think those levels wouldn't serve you as well in the back half as hexblade, divine soul, or just more conqueror. I think I took another paladin level or two after that before the campaign petered out around level 11 or 12.
Though it was always my progression plan, in-character Varis swore the pact with the hexblade after falling in battle against a lich & his construct minions. After relying on fear as their primary weapon for so long, they were left rather flat footed in a battle against truly fearless foes. While dead Varis also encountered their celestial patron directly, and had hoped their achievements over the course of their career would have finally earned, if not approval, than at least some respect. But instead they were utterly rejected, and their patron personally threw Varis's soul into the 9 hells, where they burned until their allies revived them. In character, it was knowing they would need a new source of strength to wield against fearless foes, and seeking a new spiritual guide after having finally given up on their patron ever coming round, that caused Varis to seek out and forge a pact with the Hexblade, an entity which, in that campaign, was eager just to see it's power used, and not at all finicky about the hows or whys of it.
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I never played a Paladin, i played with my cousin who played oath of the crown and it sounded pretty nice. So i decided to look at the list and the only one that appealed to me and didn't sound very generic (Just a personal opinion) until i saw Oath of Conquest.
I like the concept of it and the spells that comes with it. Any tips for personality for it? I mean i don't want to be hated by my group just for wanting to dominate my enemies nor i want the typical a man with golden shiny armor. My idea currently is having a White Dragonborn Viking like that wants his own kingdom.
I'd even appreciate having stats tips too along with weapons and all.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
When this came out, I found a lot of people had an issue with this particular subclass. Most notably on how to play it if you are a "good" character, since to many it seemed very much like the kind of subclass a more "evil" aligned character would have. And considering your remark about being hated by your group, it's probably safe to say this will be an ongoing issue until better clarifications are made.
As for any tips on how to play such a subclass, I'd look to characters in fiction who capitalize on their opponents fear. With obvious examples of this being Batman, Ghost Rider, Sinestro and Judge Dredd. Though considering your backstory, I'd suggest looking to Conan as a muse. Choosing to focus more on the conquest aspect to the subclass versus it's fear components, which could easily be viewed as a byproduct for such a driven warrior. And in addition you might want to take a look at Khal Drogo as well, who coincidentally was played by an actor who also has played Conan.
There's a couple ways to do this. One, since you're going dragonborn... just talk about how fear is a natural extension of draconic ability. Its a classic dragon trick. especially if you take the dragonfear aura feat.
Two, the Oath of Conquest is actually not that different from what police do. You establish order. You keep order, and if someone breaks the law, retribution must be swift to make people think that breaking the law is a bad idea. "Douse the flame of hope" - hope is a dangerous thing for villains to have. If they think they can get away with something, they will try. Make it clear they won't get away, and people as a whole will be safer. "Rule with an iron fist." What do you think happens when you get arrested? Don't abuse prisoners, but they still have to obey you. They've literally had their freedom taken away to protect the lawful. "Strength Above All" - law enforcement reelies on the illusion that you can't beat the police. That's why they need to appear strong and unbeatable - that illusion keeps potential lawbreakers in line. If someone stronger appears, you need to show that no one beats the law.
Point out that you're making your oath to someone who's NOT evil. Dark power is not the same as evil. its how said power is used.
Mostly, it all comes down to only using your abilities on people who are a danger to others or break the law in some way. Be honorable and kind towards people.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
Tritons make excellent Conquest Paladins while still maintaining their suggested personalities along with Law and/or Good Alignment. If you use the Point Buy for Ability Scores, the Paladin can start at character creation with 16/8/14/8/10/16 or 16/8/16/8/8/16. Dragonborn is close, but I like this Triton build and thought I would suggest it.
It's not just their personality that is a good fit, but also that they can use a Trident as their Spiritual Weapon! The Trident is normally about half as good as a javelin even though it is ten times the price, but not as a Spiritual Weapon!!!
My thought is to give them Defense Fighting Style and utilize two-weapon fighting. Longsword and Scimitar, maybe?
The Triton's Control Air and Water feature scales well with Oath of Conquest, and with the Paladin's Charisma.
I love your idea for a viking esque conquerer. I don't find wanting your own kingdom to be evil at all, and I feel that you should totally go that route. This oath is one of my most favorite (tied with vengeance and ancients) but i really like the spell list so much more, specifically for spiritual weapon. That spell is one of my favorites.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
Your marauding dragonborn makes me think of the Eika from Kate Elliots Crown of Stars books. I looked around but there were not many wiki type resources about the Eika, or rather I found none. Even has a similar theme of not just raiding, but making a new place for his people to thrive.
Would your conqueror be making a new realm, protecting his own, perhaps something more Privateer esque, go crush all the pirates and take what was theirs to make you stronger and to protect your home.
A different side would be something like a crusader, going off to fight for glory of the church and to conquer those heathens in the holy land. Don't have to be good or evil to conquer, just have to feel righteous enough about it.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I'm helping a member of my group build one of these right now and we are making a couple of Vikings. He basically has your same mindset.
You are lawful, but no one says who's laws you are following. Build a group, figure out the group dynamic and make your "laws" fit into that. After that you are a conqueror, you don't follow the laws of other rulers, you make your own laws and bring people to them and you crush those that oppose you.
Current campaigns - DM - Tomb of Annihilation home game
theory crafter and character builder.
Past campaigns -DM- modern post-apocalypse custom home game.
- Human Paladin, Brazelton - multiple games
- lv 12 Human Ranger, Mattias Shaw - 3.5e Homebrew
My opinion about the oath of conquest is that he represents the true paladin. A fanatic armored knight who will justify any atrocity with the words "in the name of my god" and not the romantic knight who can distinguish absolute evil form absolute good. He will most likely be always lawful to his cultural and religion beliefs. As he gains power he will see himself as a righteous enforcer of the "world of god" and will become more and more intolerant with other beliefs. As a paladin, your wish to do good can lead you to many evil acts...
I've found great synergy with putting together paladin, dragonborn and hexblade. Attack, damage, spell DC and aura DC all based in CHA. The downside is that as a hexblade you cannot use CHA to attacks and dmg if your weapon of choice has the "two-handed propriety". Since all the polearms have the two-handed propriety; no sentinel+polearm mastery!
I look foward to play my oath of conquest paladin... :)
"...the absence of war does not mean peace.."
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
A Lawful-oriented Hexblade is a lot like an Oath of Conquest Paladin. Especially with Maddening Hex, Thirsting Blade, Improved Pact Weapon, and Eldritch Smite (Level 7 Hexblade).
It really depends on what magical items the party runs across and which ones your character can pick up. If you happen across a Ring of Spell Storing, you've got things like Banishment, Counterspell, Fly, and Phantasmal Killer for the Hexblade on-tap (instead of 2 per short rest). If you don't have a magical item, like not even a Dark Shard Amulet, then by comparison the Conquest Paladin has 0 cantrips but 7 spell slots per long rest to maximize Aid, Find Steed, Hold Person, Lesser Restoration, and Spiritual Weapon. Magical Plate Mail makes the Paladin sing. Rods, staves, and wands make the Hexblade ultra-powerful.
All said, I prefer the Paladin -- especially for the smites. Often you just need a little-extra oomph across several targets in several combats and I'd rather do that with a bunch of Level-1 spells-to smites coming from any spellcaster class compared to Eldritch Smite, which would use 1 of the Hexblade's 2 (or so) total highest-level spell slots. This level of control is penultimate.
Even though the Hexblade's class and subclass features outclass the Channel Divinities of the Conquest Paladin (and even Vengeance Paladin), I still would prefer the Paladin (although both in a party would be super-fun!). My new-ideal would be a Half-Elf (Wood Elf variant for Fleet of Foot) Paladin with two Scimitars and a Ruby of the War Mage. For Hexblade, though, try the Half-Elf Dark Elf variant with a Greatsword and Lightning Lure.
Since the adventure is supposed to start and finish at level 9 I've planned with just 1 level of Hexblade; but that's a good reminder.
The adventure will pass in Eberron, 8000 years Before the Lament, in the "time of monsters". I'll be playing a Large Dragonborn Half-dragon (3/4 Dragon, homebrew).
"...the absence of war does not mean peace.."
Why does everyone assume a tyrant is a bad thing?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tyrant
Oath of Conquest definitely has a Lawful Evil leaning by default, but that Leaning isn't at all a hard and fast rule, particularly on the good/evil axis. The fundamental underlying philosophical divide between good conquest paladins and other good paladins comes in their assessment of the fundamental goodness of people. The typical paladin believes that people are fundamentally good and the role of the hero is to act only where necessary to defend societies of good people from either the outside forces of evil monsters or to stop and punish the few malcontent exceptions within society. The Conquest paladin may not believe that people are essentially evil, but they don't believe that they are essentially good either. Most people just follow the path of least resistance, and it is the roll of the Conqueror to ensure that the path of selfishness and chaos faces far, far more resistance than the path of altruistic cooperation. To the Conqueror, there is no fundamental difference between 'civilized' humans, elves, and dwarves and 'monstrous' drow, orcs, and goblins, only that the circumstances of their societies tilt the scales of some towards compassion and others towards cruelty. On the one hand, this mindset can be viewed as darker and more evil because it allows for 'regular' people to be treated with the same methods that other paladins reserve for 'monsters'. On the other hand, the conquest paladin would view it as less evil because they don't just want to kill monsters, they want to bring them into the light (even if it means dragging them against their will).
The good Conqueror isn't just concerned with protecting the good people of society today, they're concerned with protecting them tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after that as well. When an evil warlord gathers the goblin tribes together into a huge horde, the other paladins gather to stop them, slay the warlord, scatter the goblin army back into the wilderness. But what then? The goblins and hobgoblins and bugbears are all still there. They stay in the wilderness, nursing their resentment. The conditions that allowed the warlord to come to power aren't changed, and in a few decades another warlord is marching another evil army towards the capitol, burning another dozen villages along the way before they're stopped. Assuming the next generation's heroes are strong enough to stop them in the first place. A regular paladin who lives long enough to see this pattern might fall to despair, break their oaths of virtue and compassion, forswear goodness altogether, and go on a genocidal rampage to wipe out goblin kind, sacrificing their own morality for the sake of a lasting peace. But even that would prove only temporary as orcs or lizard men or some other force would eventually move in to fill the void the goblins left behind.
The Conqueror sees another solution. Don't wipe out the goblins, but don't just leave them in the hills, either. Conquer them. Become the next warlord to gather the tribes yourself. Speak to them in the language they know - power, violence, domination - but use that language to deliver a message of peace and integration. The riches of civilization that they hunger for can be theirs when they only subjugate themselves to society's laws and come in from the wilderness. Those that don't subjugate themselves will be subjugated by force, and that will be so much less pleasant, so they all just better come along nicely. Oh, sure, centuries of fear and resentment both from the goblins and from the 'normal' people of society will be a barrier, but it's a barrier that can be overcome if you're willing to do what it takes to make both sides fear *you* more than they fear each other.
As for criminal malcontents within society, the oath of conquest demands they be punished, but nothing in the oath demands that said punishment be disproportionate or inhumane, only that *all* criminals be forced to face some form of accountability, be forced to pay some form of restitution. ALL criminals. That's important, because most societies are more than happy to heap punishments on low level criminals, the poor and the destitute forced into crime not by malice but by desperation. What punishment might the good conqueror force upon them? Perhaps some form of public service, in the process providing employment and training. Obligatory military service, perhaps, increasing society's martial strength at the same time.
But where most societies lack the will to punish crime is when the criminals in question are privileged with wealth and power and connections. Guilds, corporations, politicians, nobles, oligarchs. Again and again such figures abuse and break the law to serve their own ends, and forestall justice by buying off those responsible for enforcing it. And this is where the Conquerors insistence that punishment *must* be met out for *all* crimes can actually make them an even greater champion of the downtrodden than a normal paladin. There are no quick payouts without admission of wrongdoing under a Conqueror's watch. If a city guard abuses their authority to harm a civilian, their judge and prosecutor buddies won't be able to just let them off with a slap on the wrist. Where other paladins might look at such miscarriages of justice and think "well, the law has spoken, my hands are tied", the good Conqueror feels no more bound to uphold such injustice than any other paladin would feel when faced with a barbarian warlord ordering wanton executions. If society is corrupt, then the good Conqueror's oath demands that they work their way through strength and intimidation to a position of power from which they can root that corruption out, and put the fear of, if not the gods, then at least the Conqueror into the hearts of those who would otherwise think to abuse their power.
Of all other paladin oaths, the good Conquest paladin would view themselves as having the most in common with the oath of redemption, though they'd consider Redeemers as too naive, a bit too weak. From the Conqueror's perspective, they're both working towards the same ends, with Redeemers providing the carrot and Conquerors serving as the stick. Of course, Redeemers might find the suggestion that they have anything in common with Conquerors repugnant, and would be more likely to view them less as partners in redemption and more as misguided figures in need of redemption themselves.
.....
Note that I'm not saying this whole mindset would be 'good' in the real world, but neither would most things a player party does nor most reasons a player party does them. It could however be good enough to pass as good within a D&D campaign.
@Sception This is fantastic. I am planning to play a Fallen Aasimar Oath of Conquest/Hexblade, where I was forcefully made to take a pact with a patron. The pact will twist my mind slightly, and result in a slightly "Punisher" like personality that practices an extreme form of justice that isn't necessarily seen as justice by all. Your explanation really helped me flush out my character concept and gave me a ton of ideas on how to play him. Thanks.
I had a similar Fallen Aasimar Conqueror/Hexblade, Varis was their name, although they chose their pact deliberately, and were morally a bit twisted well before that. Varis's celestial patron was moved to compassion by mortal suffering, but forbidden to interfere directly in mortal affairs, so the bequeathed a portion of their power to a mortal infant in the hope that they would grow to become a champion, showing mortals the path of virtue through their example.
Because of their semi-divine nature, Varis was given over to a remote monestary as a child to prevent them from being corrupted by the evils of the world, and there they were trained to become a paladin. But that sheltered upbringing left Varis woefully naive, and they were unprepared for the sheer magnitude of suffering, corruption, and injustice they encountered when they came of age and began their mission. Oft times their attempts to help would be woefully inadequate, or the victims they saved from one injustice would go on to cause another. Eventually Varis had enough, stopped trying to model proper behavior for the mortals, stopped trusting them, stopped trying to appeal to their better graces, and started turning to violence and intimidation. And that's when they started seeing results, but also when their patron rejected them, that rejection poisoning their bond. But by that point, Varis was alright with that. Their patron may disapprove, but they were too far removed from the mortal world to understand how really bad it was down here, or what extremes would be necessary to move the world in a better direction. In time, Varis was sure, the good they achieved would earn back their patron's approval, and in the mean time the more fearsom aspect caused by the disapproval tainting their bond only contributed to his ability to intimidate and bully the mortal's into line.
That was Varis's backstory as a level 1 paladin. Eventually they would take nine levels of Pally before dipping one of Hexblade. I hadn't firmly planned beyond that - honestly any combination of conquest pally, hexblade, divine soul sorcerer for the remaining 10 levels of the build works exceptionally well depending on what you want out of it. You could even jump into most types of bard or fighter if flavor called for it, though I think those levels wouldn't serve you as well in the back half as hexblade, divine soul, or just more conqueror. I think I took another paladin level or two after that before the campaign petered out around level 11 or 12.
Though it was always my progression plan, in-character Varis swore the pact with the hexblade after falling in battle against a lich & his construct minions. After relying on fear as their primary weapon for so long, they were left rather flat footed in a battle against truly fearless foes. While dead Varis also encountered their celestial patron directly, and had hoped their achievements over the course of their career would have finally earned, if not approval, than at least some respect. But instead they were utterly rejected, and their patron personally threw Varis's soul into the 9 hells, where they burned until their allies revived them. In character, it was knowing they would need a new source of strength to wield against fearless foes, and seeking a new spiritual guide after having finally given up on their patron ever coming round, that caused Varis to seek out and forge a pact with the Hexblade, an entity which, in that campaign, was eager just to see it's power used, and not at all finicky about the hows or whys of it.