....... to be fair paladins were always the evil sibling of hardworking rangers and wotc is the bad parent spoiling one and making the other fend for them selves. Now they realize they had a spoiled brat and took away his toys. They ended up fixing a problem in a method that would only work during earlier childhood development. its too late to service the support fantasy when most paladin players want a big damage # to compare as a identity factor.
seriously though they kind of hit smites really hard. I almost thought the aura was the bigger problem. They kind of didn't understand the paladin "mains" desires. Ranger "mains" may also suffer accordingly.
....... to be fair paladins were always the evil sibling of hardworking rangers and wotc is the bad parent spoiling one and making the other fend for them selves. Now they realize they had a spoiled brat and took away his toys. They ended up fixing a problem in a method that would only work during earlier childhood development. its too late to service the support fantasy when most paladin players want a big damage # to compare as a identity factor.
seriously though they kind of hit smites really hard. I almost thought the aura was the bigger problem. They kind of didn't understand the paladin "mains" desires. Ranger "mains" may also suffer accordingly. I
It sounded like Rangers were going to be one of the biggest changes among the classes. I believe I saw that among some of the articles that came out. I'd hope that based on how hated on Ranger has been they'd not "nerf" them even more.
I noted in a paladin thread that now the three half casters (Ranger, Paladin, Warlock*) all have bonus action 1st level spells that increase their damage. If they keep the one hit only Hunter's Mark, then all three will work differently and have their own advantages and drawbacks. Its good design.
Paladins will still do great burst damage, but they will have to contend with the same problem Rangers and Warlock's have had which is how to manage their action economy. And they get a free smite per day to boot. Its really not that bad a nerf. Frankly they are a far more interesting class now than before.
I am looking forward to whatever they did with Ranger. The class was good before and it will be good in the new edition.
*I get that Warlocks aren't half casters officially, but WotC definitely views them that way, and when viewed in that light and balanced against Ranger/Paladin they make a lot more sense.
To be honest, from the playtest, it just seems like they've largely tried to streamline the Tasha Ranger and make it the new default. With a couple changes here and there.
Yeah, UA2 was a very different take on rangers, and it took me a bit to come to terms with the lack of flavor in it. once I did I realized it was a ctually a very good ranger. Sadly, they then went back to a streamlined Tasha's ranger which (I suspect) will be what we see in the new pHB.
Yeah, UA2 was a very different take on rangers, and it took me a bit to come to terms with the lack of flavor in it. once I did I realized it was a ctually a very good ranger. Sadly, they then went back to a streamlined Tasha's ranger which (I suspect) will be what we see in the new pHB.
They said the final version would be a synthesis of the two UA versions. So I don't expect it'll be fully a return to form to the first UA.
I still think they're using the Tasha Ranger as a base, as opposed to the PHB Ranger. YMMV on whether that's a good idea or not.
I suspect that the main thing they are taking from UA2 is to give rangers spells at L1 and maybe (hopefully) prepared spells not known spells. both would nice upgrades.
They didn't really please either side of the ranger fan base. I don't believe they cared about ranger feedback but wanted the appearance of listening. Any time someone complained about a feature they dropped it rather than listen to the implications.
2024 rangers are not designed for the playstyles that make ranger fantasy fun. There may be a recouped loss in crafting and bastions that give the same feel but right now i think a lot of "ranger mains" feel disenfranchised and will no longer continue 2024.
Yeah, UA2 was a very different take on rangers, and it took me a bit to come to terms with the lack of flavor in it. once I did I realized it was a ctually a very good ranger. Sadly, they then went back to a streamlined Tasha's ranger which (I suspect) will be what we see in the new pHB.
They said the final version would be a synthesis of the two UA versions. So I don't expect it'll be fully a return to form to the first UA.
I still think they're using the Tasha Ranger as a base, as opposed to the PHB Ranger. YMMV on whether that's a good idea or not.
So we know what the new Ranger looks like now. Thoughts?
Mostly OK? I'm not super excited, but neither am I super disappointed. I think playing a straight Ranger will be fun and fine, and I think there are some strong multiclass possibilities, as well. But I think it could've been better, without unbalancing the class against others.
I'd have liked to have seen some of the Hunter's Mark scaling take place at slightly earlier levels. They jump from a d6 to a d10 for the capstone- but where is the d8 bridge? It's not the worst omission ever, but it would've been nice.
They touted faster recovery from Exhaustion as part of the Tireless feat... but we still don't know if Exhaustion is the 2014 version, or the playtest version, or something completely new. Nor do we know if it's even relevant, because there were so very few things that even caused Exhaustion in the 2014 PHB. Apart from the Beserker's Frenzy, I believe it was a DM's discretion, based upon travel and environment kind of thing. Maybe a few monsters or items or spells here & there caused it. But otherwise... not so much. Which makes a feature alleviating that condition... less than super valuable. Hopefully, there are more monsters & conditions that cause the condition for 2024.
The easing of restrictions for spellcasting are nice. Being able to swap out a spell after a long rest is a nice compromise between the "known spells" and "prepared spells" paradigms established in 2014. I hope that the spell revisions considered concentration for the Ranger class. Many of the Ranger's better combat spells required concentration. And that's a bummer, if you have to choose between using your class's signature spell/feature and some other, more powerful spells. But- I suppose it's not much different of a choice than the Paladin's Smite vs the other Smite spells.
I'm disappointed that they've done away with all versions of "Primeval Awareness." The Paladin got to keep Divine Sense, and, in fact, it was improved. The Ranger, as an archetype, should arguably be the best at sensing creatures. Now, they sort of addressed this by giving the Ranger Expertise at level 2, and two more Expertises at level 9. But I'd have liked to have seen a Wis mod times per day spell-like ability to sense creatures in an area. Maybe within around 150 ft? Idk.
I'd have liked to have seen some form of damage resistance put into the class, depending upon level, or maybe upon the terrain type the party is in.
But... a lot of the circumstantiveness and vagueness of the 2014 Ranger is long gone. No more arguing about whether that bunch of trees is a forest, or not. No more arguing about what defines a certain area type, or not. No more lamenting that there is no area type for Urban, or Tomb, or Dungeon.
I wish that the Hunter just got more... stuff. Maybe it's good that there are 2 "magical" subclasses and 2 "non-magical" subclasses. That makes the subclass choice more substantive. But... it also makes the Gloom & Fey more attractive choices, because they have more options for spellcasting- which JC admitted at the outset was a major facet of the Ranger class, as a half caster. But... at least the Hunter can change out their choices now.
Rangers are a strong class. Now more than ever. I just hoped they would have more of a signature mechanical feature- other than Hunter's Mark.
So we know what the new Ranger looks like now. Thoughts?
Things I like about the new Ranger -earlier magic, -more access to prepared spells -Hunters mark is always prepared so it doesn't take one of your known spell spots, -being able to cast it 2 times per long rest or more when you get high enough level without costing a spell slot. -weapon master properties -more consistent damage throughout each day for Gloom Stalker. -can now frighten (in gloom stalker) -upgraded shadowy dodge (in gloom stalker) -bonus action become invisible until the end of your next turn at 14. -I like precise hunter's advantage on attack rolls but wish it was before 17. -Feral sense getting blindsight again wish it was earlier -Extra expertise
Not sure I understand yet -Fighting styles are now a type of feat
Don't like -losing extra languages from Favored enemy and the ability to learn more about your favored enemy. -no more extra attack on first round for Gloom Stalker. -no primeval/primal awareness -no land's stride -no hide in plain sight.
I am really curious about beastmaster stat blocks. I want pet specific trait options. It will really determine whether or not I ever adopt 2024.
We'll find out next Friday when the Ranger video and write-up drop.
Dam* I have to wait another who,e week?
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I could probably listen to the paladin players complain about their bonus action being clogged for another week.
LOL
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
....... to be fair paladins were always the evil sibling of hardworking rangers and wotc is the bad parent spoiling one and making the other fend for them selves. Now they realize they had a spoiled brat and took away his toys. They ended up fixing a problem in a method that would only work during earlier childhood development. its too late to service the support fantasy when most paladin players want a big damage # to compare as a identity factor.
seriously though they kind of hit smites really hard. I almost thought the aura was the bigger problem. They kind of didn't understand the paladin "mains" desires. Ranger "mains" may also suffer accordingly.
It sounded like Rangers were going to be one of the biggest changes among the classes. I believe I saw that among some of the articles that came out. I'd hope that based on how hated on Ranger has been they'd not "nerf" them even more.
Overpowered can be worse than underpowered. Especially when powerful is such a subjective term.
And the desired fun is often different for different classes. My problem would be if certain fun playstyles were removed in favor of general appeal.
Then again maybe 2014 will remain an option but I've already have dms "ban" ranger elements without even trying to understand its playspace.
I noted in a paladin thread that now the three half casters (Ranger, Paladin, Warlock*) all have bonus action 1st level spells that increase their damage. If they keep the one hit only Hunter's Mark, then all three will work differently and have their own advantages and drawbacks. Its good design.
Paladins will still do great burst damage, but they will have to contend with the same problem Rangers and Warlock's have had which is how to manage their action economy. And they get a free smite per day to boot. Its really not that bad a nerf. Frankly they are a far more interesting class now than before.
I am looking forward to whatever they did with Ranger. The class was good before and it will be good in the new edition.
*I get that Warlocks aren't half casters officially, but WotC definitely views them that way, and when viewed in that light and balanced against Ranger/Paladin they make a lot more sense.
To be honest, from the playtest, it just seems like they've largely tried to streamline the Tasha Ranger and make it the new default. With a couple changes here and there.
Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen.
Yeah, UA2 was a very different take on rangers, and it took me a bit to come to terms with the lack of flavor in it. once I did I realized it was a ctually a very good ranger. Sadly, they then went back to a streamlined Tasha's ranger which (I suspect) will be what we see in the new pHB.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
They said the final version would be a synthesis of the two UA versions. So I don't expect it'll be fully a return to form to the first UA.
I still think they're using the Tasha Ranger as a base, as opposed to the PHB Ranger. YMMV on whether that's a good idea or not.
I suspect that the main thing they are taking from UA2 is to give rangers spells at L1 and maybe (hopefully) prepared spells not known spells. both would nice upgrades.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
So we know what the new Ranger looks like now. Thoughts?
They didn't really please either side of the ranger fan base. I don't believe they cared about ranger feedback but wanted the appearance of listening. Any time someone complained about a feature they dropped it rather than listen to the implications.
2024 rangers are not designed for the playstyles that make ranger fantasy fun. There may be a recouped loss in crafting and bastions that give the same feel but right now i think a lot of "ranger mains" feel disenfranchised and will no longer continue 2024.
Gloom Stalker disenfranchisement is the biggest issue for me.
2014 5E mostly
3.5 maybe.
You weren't wrong lol.
Mostly OK? I'm not super excited, but neither am I super disappointed. I think playing a straight Ranger will be fun and fine, and I think there are some strong multiclass possibilities, as well. But I think it could've been better, without unbalancing the class against others.
I'd have liked to have seen some of the Hunter's Mark scaling take place at slightly earlier levels. They jump from a d6 to a d10 for the capstone- but where is the d8 bridge? It's not the worst omission ever, but it would've been nice.
They touted faster recovery from Exhaustion as part of the Tireless feat... but we still don't know if Exhaustion is the 2014 version, or the playtest version, or something completely new. Nor do we know if it's even relevant, because there were so very few things that even caused Exhaustion in the 2014 PHB. Apart from the Beserker's Frenzy, I believe it was a DM's discretion, based upon travel and environment kind of thing. Maybe a few monsters or items or spells here & there caused it. But otherwise... not so much. Which makes a feature alleviating that condition... less than super valuable. Hopefully, there are more monsters & conditions that cause the condition for 2024.
The easing of restrictions for spellcasting are nice. Being able to swap out a spell after a long rest is a nice compromise between the "known spells" and "prepared spells" paradigms established in 2014. I hope that the spell revisions considered concentration for the Ranger class. Many of the Ranger's better combat spells required concentration. And that's a bummer, if you have to choose between using your class's signature spell/feature and some other, more powerful spells. But- I suppose it's not much different of a choice than the Paladin's Smite vs the other Smite spells.
I'm disappointed that they've done away with all versions of "Primeval Awareness." The Paladin got to keep Divine Sense, and, in fact, it was improved. The Ranger, as an archetype, should arguably be the best at sensing creatures. Now, they sort of addressed this by giving the Ranger Expertise at level 2, and two more Expertises at level 9. But I'd have liked to have seen a Wis mod times per day spell-like ability to sense creatures in an area. Maybe within around 150 ft? Idk.
I'd have liked to have seen some form of damage resistance put into the class, depending upon level, or maybe upon the terrain type the party is in.
But... a lot of the circumstantiveness and vagueness of the 2014 Ranger is long gone. No more arguing about whether that bunch of trees is a forest, or not. No more arguing about what defines a certain area type, or not. No more lamenting that there is no area type for Urban, or Tomb, or Dungeon.
I wish that the Hunter just got more... stuff. Maybe it's good that there are 2 "magical" subclasses and 2 "non-magical" subclasses. That makes the subclass choice more substantive. But... it also makes the Gloom & Fey more attractive choices, because they have more options for spellcasting- which JC admitted at the outset was a major facet of the Ranger class, as a half caster. But... at least the Hunter can change out their choices now.
Rangers are a strong class. Now more than ever. I just hoped they would have more of a signature mechanical feature- other than Hunter's Mark.
Things I like about the new Ranger
-earlier magic,
-more access to prepared spells
-Hunters mark is always prepared so it doesn't take one of your known spell spots,
-being able to cast it 2 times per long rest or more when you get high enough level without costing a spell slot.
-weapon master properties
-more consistent damage throughout each day for Gloom Stalker.
-can now frighten (in gloom stalker)
-upgraded shadowy dodge (in gloom stalker)
-bonus action become invisible until the end of your next turn at 14.
-I like precise hunter's advantage on attack rolls but wish it was before 17.
-Feral sense getting blindsight again wish it was earlier
-Extra expertise
Not sure I understand yet
-Fighting styles are now a type of feat
Don't like
-losing extra languages from Favored enemy and the ability to learn more about your favored enemy.
-no more extra attack on first round for Gloom Stalker.
-no primeval/primal awareness
-no land's stride
-no hide in plain sight.
Annoyed that a large portion of my abilities being dependent on a spell I normally stop using by 5th level, that don't function without it.