I've been playing D&D since the only three options were Cleric, Fighter, and Wizard. Yes, that's back when Gygax and Arneson created the game. When additional classes became available I gravitated to the Ranger, partly because I thought Aragorn was about as noble as they come and partly because I just finished Army Ranger School. I took a break mostly because I was deployed to places where there wasn't much time for playing D&D.
So, fast forward to 5e. I've been playing for a while again and I like the Bard. It was the first time I ever played a Bard and I liked it a lot. But I'm ready to try my hand at my favorite character class again. My question is, what fighting style is best? The two I'm looking at the hardest are Archery and Two Weapon Fighting. How do they mesh with the Gloom Stalker abilities? Which meshes the best. I like Two Weapon Fighting but I'm not sure it synergizes with Dread Ambusher well since it only works for the first turn. You may not be able to get to an opponent on turn one. But you'll almost definitely be able to engage with your bow. Thoughts?
So just about any fighting style works with a Gloom Stalker. Archery works really well with a ton of Ranger features. In particular being in the dark and being invisible means you have advantage on your bow shots since you are invisible to just about everyone. So if you apply Gloom Stalker to a race that has darkvision already you can get up to 90 feet of darkvision (also an old dude so half the time I use infravision which dates me). That is a lot of range. If archery is the #1 way you envision the Ranger then go for it.
Now if you choose bow you are going to have problems with AC, but you should stay out of range from most combat so you might not need it. But you might want to know if your party expects you to be in the front trading blows. My gloom stalker ended up in a party with two multiclass rogue spell casters, a druid who doesn't brawl, and a battlemaster; I ended up on the front lines with the fighter.
As a hoplite gloom stalker (spear and shield) I do not always get my 3rd attack, and sometimes I don't even want to (its a good way to get surrounded after your three attacks). The extra AC from the shield is nice, and once you go strength ranger you can choose defense as a style, and keep your dex at 14 and get into some Breastplate. Knowing what I know now I might have done variant human for the extra feat and by 4th level would have had warcaster, and polearm master with a spear and shield. The darkvision you get from Gloom Stalker is one of the more powerful abilities in the game. Try to encourage your party to go full darkvision and leave the torches at home. You pull that off and you will find its the DM wasting actions to turn on the lights.
Outstanding. Thanks for the reply. I like hoplite ranger. My family came from the area south of Sparta when they immigrated to the US. Any Ranger I build is usually a Half Elf, so it'll be 90' darkvision. One question, do you find it difficult to get into battle on the first round of combat to use the ability to it's fullest?
Yep it happens some times. As a strength Ranger its a bigger deal than if I was an archer. My group is playing on Roll20 and sometimes we get dropped on a map 120 feet from the enemy. Lately we have been in a castle and I have done 3 straight combats with extra first round attacks. At this point I am used to some of the Ranger abilities being situational.
Fun frustrating thing. You can see the enemy 90 feet away and can't get into melee for your extra attack, but they don't know you are there if you are in the dark. In those cases we cry ourselves to sleep while we attack with advantage from range.
One of the trickier parts is keeping track of hands. If you go hoplite or two weapon you frequently don't have enough hands to cast spells. Warcaster will eventually help, but careful choice of spells can sometimes be important. If you are going half-elf and love archery you will need the Elven accuracy feat. When you have advantage and are attacking with dex (any time the gloom stalker is surrounded by darkness and can see others) you get a third die roll to hit. That means a 15% chance of crit.
To me the extra attack in the first round is fun, but I far more enjoy the invisibility in the dark, rope trick at level 5, fear at 9, and the wisdom saves at 7. The level 11 ability is nice too.
Archery is a very strong fighting style. It's the only style that gives a bonus to hit on your attacks, which combines perfectly with the sharpshooter feat. Only bows and heavy weapons get to access damage boosting feats this good and archery is better at mitigating the loss to your attack rolls. Overall an incredibly strong package.
Keeping yourself at range also means you worry less about dropping concentration on the premier ranger spell, Hunter's Mark.
That being said I love melee rangers and think they are quite strong. I love a good shield and spear warrior. The hoplite is a great archetype. Personally I would go with dueling style for this approach as I think the ranger is better served to work towards consistent strong damage than being overly tanky. But party composition has a lot to do with a choice like that. In Elfdope's example it makes more sense to go defense to help protect all those squishies. You won't have too many problems getting into melee the first round thanks to the speed boost, but it will come up. A character that leans that heavily on melee will undoubtedly run into a situation like that every now and then. Just ask the paladin.
I personally think Gloomstalkers are at their best when built as a switch hitter of sorts. To do this you need to be dexterity based to use a bow and rapier/scimitar + shield (I'd go scimitar every time, I don't like the flavor of a rapier and shield). Archery, Dueling and Defense are all viable fighting styles depending on what your primary concern is. By doing this you will be be able to adapt to every battle and attack with the weapon that best suits the situation. You will rarely if ever find it impossible to make your attacks on the first round with this method. I played alongside a gloomstalker built in this way (using defense, because like Elfdope's group we were quite squishy) and he never had problems contributing in combat from turn 1. We could always count on him.
The thing is that the ranger is not a flashy damage dealer the way that paladins, fighter, and rogues are. But that's okay. The ranger is excellent at always finding a way to contribute and dealing consistent solid damage that adds up to a very meaningful contribution. The gloomstalker takes this a step further by placing so much importance on attacking the first round of combat. The tactical versatility of switch hitting enables this beautifully.
I think it also matches the concept of the Ranger quite well. I think of the Ranger as a skilled survivalist: using the right tool for the job. I don't think of rangers as the type of fighter to hold a single combat style sacred, but to practice many that help them achieve the various things they do to survive.
I would stay away from two weapon fighting unless you have a concept that you are just in love with. It is not a good fighting style mechanically, and has negative synergy with your best damage booster Hunter's Mark.
I love the new additions from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything.
Druidic Warrior is fantastic for picking up cantrips and delving into the spellcaster side of the ranger. Shillelagh even enables a fully wisdom based quarterstaff Ranger which I find really fun to think about.
Meanwhile Thrown Weapon Style finally gives some love to that fighting style and can be combined with dueling style (melee thrown weapons) or archery style (ranged thrown weapons) if you find a way to pick up a second fighting style. Instead of making this post any longer I'll post a link to a thread I made about thrown weapon battlemaster fighters. A lot of the information will pertain to a ranger build if you decide you want to chuck knives.
To me the extra attack in the first round is fun, but I far more enjoy the invisibility in the dark, rope trick at level 5, fear at 9, and the wisdom saves at 7. The level 11 ability is nice too.
Yeah, rope trick is dope. Great for a short rest. Great for a Ranger to have it.
Meanwhile Thrown Weapon Style finally gives some love to that fighting style and can be combined with dueling style (melee thrown weapons) or archery style (ranged thrown weapons) if you find a way to pick up a second fighting style. Instead of making this post any longer I'll post a link to a thread I made about thrown weapon battlemaster fighters. A lot of the information will pertain to a ranger build if you decide you want to chuck knives.
I've always loved the Ranger and Tasha's gave the class so many new toys to consider. Happy Rangering in the New Year!
I currently have a strength Gloom Stalker with throwing weapon proficiency planned, really looking forward to running with it as I love throwing weapons. You still get the ability to engage at range if dropped into combat from a distance, but you can also go toe to toe.
For anyone considering thrown weapons I could not recommend a two level dip into artificer enough. Magical weapons will become a legitimate problem for you. Picking up the Returning Infusion solves a major problem for the fighting style.
I'd also look for ways to pick up Dueling Fighting Style as it stacks with Thrown Weapon Style. A flat +4 damage to each attack is quite nice.
I've been playing D&D since the only three options were Cleric, Fighter, and Wizard. Yes, that's back when Gygax and Arneson created the game. When additional classes became available I gravitated to the Ranger, partly because I thought Aragorn was about as noble as they come and partly because I just finished Army Ranger School. I took a break mostly because I was deployed to places where there wasn't much time for playing D&D.
So, fast forward to 5e. I've been playing for a while again and I like the Bard. It was the first time I ever played a Bard and I liked it a lot. But I'm ready to try my hand at my favorite character class again. My question is, what fighting style is best? The two I'm looking at the hardest are Archery and Two Weapon Fighting. How do they mesh with the Gloom Stalker abilities? Which meshes the best. I like Two Weapon Fighting but I'm not sure it synergizes with Dread Ambusher well since it only works for the first turn. You may not be able to get to an opponent on turn one. But you'll almost definitely be able to engage with your bow. Thoughts?
Rangers rely on bonus action a lot for things like Hunters Mark. Two-weapon fighting takes up your bonus action. There are some amazing feats that support archery, and the +2 to hit isn't sexy, but it's mechanically the most effective of all the fighting styles. If you pick up Sharpshooter, it turns that +10 damage -5 to hit into -3 to hit. Being able stand in one spot and hit enemies all over the map is also effective.
Gloomstalkers make insanely good archers. The damage you can dish out in general, but especially in the first round of combat is insane. To the point that I've had a couple of DMs get frustrated with it.
Gloomstalkers make insanely good archers. The damage you can dish out in general, but especially in the first round of combat is insane. To the point that I've had a couple of DMs get frustrated with it.
With a Ranger you can't go wrong with Archery. It means you only have Dex, Con, and Wis to boost. Your Dex increases give you more to hit, AC, initiative, skills. You always have a free hand to cast with. You can't melee very well, and your AC will be a little limited, but you are an archer.
If your party doesnt have control flames you should consider Druidic warrior for it so you can put out torches 60 feet infront of you to ensure your Gloomstalker advantage in dark, it will also double the light from 3 party members bullseye lanterns to 120' while you walk behind them invisible. Guidance is useful for... Everything + initiative.
Blindfighting & fog cloud isnt for gloomstalker
depending on how bad you want rangers 2nd level spells, I usually go Battlemaster Fighter after level 3 with my rangers, then get archery, manouvers like goading to disadvantage enemy (help the squishies) & precision for sharpshooter, elven accuracy at 6th so you never miss... Why half elf? Charisma is wasted on ranger, i usually go wood elf for extra movement, perception, stealth, the ultimate hit & run scout.
PS why wouldnt a hopolyte throw their spear, draw another, maybe throw again.. they carried 3 spears, light long range, move up medium range, close combat heavy spear
5e nerfed two weapon fighting, especially for rangers. Archery is by far the better choice sadly (I loved TWF in the old days). If you want a more melee focused build look at Druidic warrior with shillelagh and primal savagery as the cantrips - a wis+Dex+con build with a magic weapon attack D8 attack (shillelagh) at L2 or a the primal savagery d10 poison attack that scales magic damage with level.
Gloomstalker should at least start with a bow or crossbow. It’s too important to get the first round attack in as that is their entire level 3 ranger damage boost. If the stalker misses out on that first round turn they loose all of their subclass damage. Sure. They still have invisibility if they and the enemies are all in total darkness.
Why does no one talk about dueling? Swords are the most commonly found magic weapon. You can use with a shield or keep a free hand open for throwing weapons (for ranger spells). It works with hunter’s mark. It works with either dexterity or strength.
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I've been playing D&D since the only three options were Cleric, Fighter, and Wizard. Yes, that's back when Gygax and Arneson created the game. When additional classes became available I gravitated to the Ranger, partly because I thought Aragorn was about as noble as they come and partly because I just finished Army Ranger School. I took a break mostly because I was deployed to places where there wasn't much time for playing D&D.
So, fast forward to 5e. I've been playing for a while again and I like the Bard. It was the first time I ever played a Bard and I liked it a lot. But I'm ready to try my hand at my favorite character class again. My question is, what fighting style is best? The two I'm looking at the hardest are Archery and Two Weapon Fighting. How do they mesh with the Gloom Stalker abilities? Which meshes the best. I like Two Weapon Fighting but I'm not sure it synergizes with Dread Ambusher well since it only works for the first turn. You may not be able to get to an opponent on turn one. But you'll almost definitely be able to engage with your bow. Thoughts?
So just about any fighting style works with a Gloom Stalker. Archery works really well with a ton of Ranger features. In particular being in the dark and being invisible means you have advantage on your bow shots since you are invisible to just about everyone. So if you apply Gloom Stalker to a race that has darkvision already you can get up to 90 feet of darkvision (also an old dude so half the time I use infravision which dates me). That is a lot of range. If archery is the #1 way you envision the Ranger then go for it.
Now if you choose bow you are going to have problems with AC, but you should stay out of range from most combat so you might not need it. But you might want to know if your party expects you to be in the front trading blows. My gloom stalker ended up in a party with two multiclass rogue spell casters, a druid who doesn't brawl, and a battlemaster; I ended up on the front lines with the fighter.
As a hoplite gloom stalker (spear and shield) I do not always get my 3rd attack, and sometimes I don't even want to (its a good way to get surrounded after your three attacks). The extra AC from the shield is nice, and once you go strength ranger you can choose defense as a style, and keep your dex at 14 and get into some Breastplate. Knowing what I know now I might have done variant human for the extra feat and by 4th level would have had warcaster, and polearm master with a spear and shield. The darkvision you get from Gloom Stalker is one of the more powerful abilities in the game. Try to encourage your party to go full darkvision and leave the torches at home. You pull that off and you will find its the DM wasting actions to turn on the lights.
Outstanding. Thanks for the reply. I like hoplite ranger. My family came from the area south of Sparta when they immigrated to the US. Any Ranger I build is usually a Half Elf, so it'll be 90' darkvision. One question, do you find it difficult to get into battle on the first round of combat to use the ability to it's fullest?
Yep it happens some times. As a strength Ranger its a bigger deal than if I was an archer. My group is playing on Roll20 and sometimes we get dropped on a map 120 feet from the enemy. Lately we have been in a castle and I have done 3 straight combats with extra first round attacks. At this point I am used to some of the Ranger abilities being situational.
Fun frustrating thing. You can see the enemy 90 feet away and can't get into melee for your extra attack, but they don't know you are there if you are in the dark. In those cases we cry ourselves to sleep while we attack with advantage from range.
One of the trickier parts is keeping track of hands. If you go hoplite or two weapon you frequently don't have enough hands to cast spells. Warcaster will eventually help, but careful choice of spells can sometimes be important. If you are going half-elf and love archery you will need the Elven accuracy feat. When you have advantage and are attacking with dex (any time the gloom stalker is surrounded by darkness and can see others) you get a third die roll to hit. That means a 15% chance of crit.
To me the extra attack in the first round is fun, but I far more enjoy the invisibility in the dark, rope trick at level 5, fear at 9, and the wisdom saves at 7. The level 11 ability is nice too.
Archery is a very strong fighting style. It's the only style that gives a bonus to hit on your attacks, which combines perfectly with the sharpshooter feat. Only bows and heavy weapons get to access damage boosting feats this good and archery is better at mitigating the loss to your attack rolls. Overall an incredibly strong package.
Keeping yourself at range also means you worry less about dropping concentration on the premier ranger spell, Hunter's Mark.
That being said I love melee rangers and think they are quite strong. I love a good shield and spear warrior. The hoplite is a great archetype. Personally I would go with dueling style for this approach as I think the ranger is better served to work towards consistent strong damage than being overly tanky. But party composition has a lot to do with a choice like that. In Elfdope's example it makes more sense to go defense to help protect all those squishies. You won't have too many problems getting into melee the first round thanks to the speed boost, but it will come up. A character that leans that heavily on melee will undoubtedly run into a situation like that every now and then. Just ask the paladin.
I personally think Gloomstalkers are at their best when built as a switch hitter of sorts. To do this you need to be dexterity based to use a bow and rapier/scimitar + shield (I'd go scimitar every time, I don't like the flavor of a rapier and shield). Archery, Dueling and Defense are all viable fighting styles depending on what your primary concern is. By doing this you will be be able to adapt to every battle and attack with the weapon that best suits the situation. You will rarely if ever find it impossible to make your attacks on the first round with this method. I played alongside a gloomstalker built in this way (using defense, because like Elfdope's group we were quite squishy) and he never had problems contributing in combat from turn 1. We could always count on him.
The thing is that the ranger is not a flashy damage dealer the way that paladins, fighter, and rogues are. But that's okay. The ranger is excellent at always finding a way to contribute and dealing consistent solid damage that adds up to a very meaningful contribution. The gloomstalker takes this a step further by placing so much importance on attacking the first round of combat. The tactical versatility of switch hitting enables this beautifully.
I think it also matches the concept of the Ranger quite well. I think of the Ranger as a skilled survivalist: using the right tool for the job. I don't think of rangers as the type of fighter to hold a single combat style sacred, but to practice many that help them achieve the various things they do to survive.
I would stay away from two weapon fighting unless you have a concept that you are just in love with. It is not a good fighting style mechanically, and has negative synergy with your best damage booster Hunter's Mark.
I love the new additions from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything.
Druidic Warrior is fantastic for picking up cantrips and delving into the spellcaster side of the ranger. Shillelagh even enables a fully wisdom based quarterstaff Ranger which I find really fun to think about.
Meanwhile Thrown Weapon Style finally gives some love to that fighting style and can be combined with dueling style (melee thrown weapons) or archery style (ranged thrown weapons) if you find a way to pick up a second fighting style. Instead of making this post any longer I'll post a link to a thread I made about thrown weapon battlemaster fighters. A lot of the information will pertain to a ranger build if you decide you want to chuck knives.
I've always loved the Ranger and Tasha's gave the class so many new toys to consider. Happy Rangering in the New Year!
Thanks for the advice.
Yeah, rope trick is dope. Great for a short rest. Great for a Ranger to have it.
I currently have a strength Gloom Stalker with throwing weapon proficiency planned, really looking forward to running with it as I love throwing weapons. You still get the ability to engage at range if dropped into combat from a distance, but you can also go toe to toe.
For anyone considering thrown weapons I could not recommend a two level dip into artificer enough. Magical weapons will become a legitimate problem for you. Picking up the Returning Infusion solves a major problem for the fighting style.
I'd also look for ways to pick up Dueling Fighting Style as it stacks with Thrown Weapon Style. A flat +4 damage to each attack is quite nice.
Rangers rely on bonus action a lot for things like Hunters Mark. Two-weapon fighting takes up your bonus action. There are some amazing feats that support archery, and the +2 to hit isn't sexy, but it's mechanically the most effective of all the fighting styles. If you pick up Sharpshooter, it turns that +10 damage -5 to hit into -3 to hit. Being able stand in one spot and hit enemies all over the map is also effective.
Gloomstalkers make insanely good archers. The damage you can dish out in general, but especially in the first round of combat is insane. To the point that I've had a couple of DMs get frustrated with it.
Thanks, this helps me make up my mind.
With a Ranger you can't go wrong with Archery. It means you only have Dex, Con, and Wis to boost. Your Dex increases give you more to hit, AC, initiative, skills. You always have a free hand to cast with. You can't melee very well, and your AC will be a little limited, but you are an archer.
If your party doesnt have control flames you should consider Druidic warrior for it so you can put out torches 60 feet infront of you to ensure your Gloomstalker advantage in dark, it will also double the light from 3 party members bullseye lanterns to 120' while you walk behind them invisible. Guidance is useful for... Everything + initiative.
Blindfighting & fog cloud isnt for gloomstalker
depending on how bad you want rangers 2nd level spells, I usually go Battlemaster Fighter after level 3 with my rangers, then get archery, manouvers like goading to disadvantage enemy (help the squishies) & precision for sharpshooter, elven accuracy at 6th so you never miss... Why half elf? Charisma is wasted on ranger, i usually go wood elf for extra movement, perception, stealth, the ultimate hit & run scout.
PS why wouldnt a hopolyte throw their spear, draw another, maybe throw again.. they carried 3 spears, light long range, move up medium range, close combat heavy spear
I prefer Archery for Gloom Stalker as i think attacking at range let you usually benefit more of your features than if you need to go in melee.
5e nerfed two weapon fighting, especially for rangers. Archery is by far the better choice sadly (I loved TWF in the old days). If you want a more melee focused build look at Druidic warrior with shillelagh and primal savagery as the cantrips - a wis+Dex+con build with a magic weapon attack D8 attack (shillelagh) at L2 or a the primal savagery d10 poison attack that scales magic damage with level.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Gloomstalker should at least start with a bow or crossbow. It’s too important to get the first round attack in as that is their entire level 3 ranger damage boost. If the stalker misses out on that first round turn they loose all of their subclass damage. Sure. They still have invisibility if they and the enemies are all in total darkness.
Why does no one talk about dueling? Swords are the most commonly found magic weapon. You can use with a shield or keep a free hand open for throwing weapons (for ranger spells). It works with hunter’s mark. It works with either dexterity or strength.