Prerequisite: 12th level, Pact of The Blade feature When you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the creature takes extra necrotic damage equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1).
Isnt it a bit strange that the RavenQueen despises sentient undeads and wants you to hunt them, but your abilities heal them if you hit them with it? Should the warlocks choosing her as patron be able to choose Radient or Force damage instead?
The Raven Queen is a goddess (sorta?) of the Shadowfell, a place embodying dark magics. Necrotic energy, ghosts, and the like are kinda everywhere there. So, makes sense that way. Now, necrotic energy from the fey or celestial Patrons is a bit strange, but the Raven Queen makes perfect sense.
I don't see any undead that get healed from taking necrotic damage. I see plenty of resistance to necrotic damage, and some immunity to it, but no outright healing.
I'm not sure the Raven Queen hates undead. She hates Orcus, because they're at war with each other, and she's a (?) goddess of psychopomps, but I don't think she goes out of her way to despise the intelligent undead.
In the general D&D multiverse, the Raven Queen is a quasi-deity who watches souls from the Shadowfell as they transfer from the dead to the outer planes. See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXWgG83jyaI
You're thinking of the Pathfinder / Critical Role (Exandria) brand of Raven Queen. She is the Raven Queen motif transferred to Kelemvor's divine portfolio. She's the one who hates undead. No relation to the basic D&D canon that informs the D&D rules.
Regardless, necrotic damage doesn't heal undead. Many are resistant or immune to it, but a surprising number of undead take full damage from necrotic. And even if we assumed that the Raven Queen hated undead, that doesn't mean she has any ability to let you do radiant damage - she's associated with the Shadowfell and/or dominion over death, both of which are substantially "necrotic" in theme.
You're thinking of the Pathfinder / Critical Role (Exandria) brand of Raven Queen. She is the Raven Queen motif transferred to Kelemvor's divine portfolio. She's the one who hates undead. No relation to the basic D&D canon that informs the D&D rules.
The fact that the Raven Queen hates intelligent undead was mentioned in UA: Warlock & Wizard.
I know UA isn't official but it's likely that concept isn't new and/or will be brought up in Tome of Foes.
Well, she is a psychopomp, and its her "job" to make sure that souls continue their journey. So, it makes sense that she is opposed to things like liches, who deliberately keep their souls trapped in the mortal shell and refuse to move on. Or ghosts and specters. Its arguable if vampires have their original souls (I think it depends on the DM?); a soulless vampire would likely not rouse the Raven Queen's interest, while vampires with souls would. Someone condemned by the gods to be punished as a cursed banshee would also likely earn a pass - they're already suffering their pre-ordained fate.
That said, its not like the Raven Queen hasn't made exceptions to her own rules before. People bargain with her to return the dead to life, and in 4e, she was the patron of an entire playable "race" of undead revenants. And even the Hexblade itself creates itself creates intelligent undead (specters).
Sorry about the necrotic healing mistake, that probably happened in earlier editions.
But yes, the dislike towards intelligent undeads was mentioned in the UA: Warlock & Wizard. And reading about her in the previous editions also mentions her as such. Never read about the Pathfinder versions.
I find the HexBlade quite confusing and the RavenQueen even more confusing. She has usually been unaligned (at least thats what I found out) and seems to focus on the fate of the souls and etc, yet the ability you get from a HexBlade gives you a Chaotic Evil Specter to aid you. The Shadowfell, even though it is a plane full of death and decay and despair, is also unaligned plane(at least according to my investigations), making the evil taint of the HexBlade even more disturbing. Seeing that a Warlock is not bound by alignement and, to my understanding, the pact you engage with a Patron is nowhere close to be as binding as lets say a Clerics relationship to its deity, one would think that a sort of ghost or maybe a modified Specter would be more fitting. And with modified I mean that the summoned undead maybe mirrors the Warlocks alignement.
Also, what happens to the soul of the poor sod after the Specter is done serving you? Is it so that all the souls traverse through the Shadowfell on their way to the Fugue Plane to await their final judgement? Will they still be Chaotic Evil after leaving the natural world?
I find the HexBlade quite confusing and the RavenQueen even more confusing. She has usually been unaligned (at least thats what I found out) and seems to focus on the fate of the souls and etc, yet the ability you get from a HexBlade gives you a Chaotic Evil Specter to aid you. The Shadowfell, even though it is a plane full of death and decay and despair, is also unaligned plane(at least according to my investigations), making the evil taint of the HexBlade even more disturbing. Seeing that a Warlock is not bound by alignement and, to my understanding, the pact you engage with a Patron is nowhere close to be as binding as lets say a Clerics relationship to its deity, one would think that a sort of ghost or maybe a modified Specter would be more fitting. And with modified I mean that the summoned undead maybe mirrors the Warlocks alignement.
Also, what happens to the soul of the poor sod after the Specter is done serving you? Is it so that all the souls traverse through the Shadowfell on their way to the Fugue Plane to await their final judgement? Will they still be Chaotic Evil after leaving the natural world?
The flavor text of the ability says the spirit departs for the afterlife after it's service to the warlock ends. That's an interesting point about the CE alignment from the MM - alignment doesn't come up much in my game, mechanics-wise but it could... As a DM I'd probably say the specter has the alignment it had in life, and I'd ignore everything in the MM except the stat blocks as this is a unique form of specter anyway.
You rightly point out that patron and warlock alignments, and even broad goals, don't have to match up at all. It's on the warlock to reconcile any use of their abilities that don't seem to neatly fit their own moral code.
If you still have confusion over the Hexblade or Raven Queen as patrons, I suggest talking it out with your DM - they ultimately decide what all NPCs are like and would probably love to flesh out the patron with you.
About the specter - keep in mind that you're not summoning a spirit from somewhere. You're STEALING A SOUL and binding it to your purpose for a day. Chances are, you've cut down an orc or a human bandit, and forcing their spiritual remains to do your bidding. While Chaotic Evil might not be the best here all the time, its unlikely we're dealing a righteous soul here.
The Shadowfell, while technically neutral, is only neutral because its an Material Echo Plane; only the Outer Planes have realms with an alignment. In reality, its always been on the eviler side. It contains the Shadow Weave (ie magic that enhances mind control, deception, necromancy, and killing), it absorbed the Demiplane of Dread, definitely a plane known for containing evil. Its home to shadow dragons and lots of undead.
Warlock might not be bound by alignment, but the class as a whole definitely is defined in no small part by curses and other dark magics. It definitely represents the darker aspects of a lot of things. There was major debate if it was even appropriate to have a celestial warlock, because of the heavy presence of necrotic magic and debilitating spells. Warlocks are all kind of dark/edgy that way. Maybe not evil, but certainly not dealing with fluffy.
About the specter - keep in mind that you're not summoning a spirit from somewhere. You're STEALING A SOUL and binding it to your purpose for a day. Chances are, you've cut down an orc or a human bandit, and forcing their spiritual remains to do your bidding. While Chaotic Evil might not be the best here all the time, its unlikely we're dealing a righteous soul here.
Specters don't remember who they used to be. They're chaotic evil because existing sucks for them and they can't move on, so they resent the living and lash out with violence.
In this case it doesn't matter much since the specter is under the Warlock's control and will still move on to the afterlife.
The Shadowfell, while technically neutral, is only neutral because its an Material Echo Plane; only the Outer Planes have realms with an alignment. In reality, its always been on the eviler side. It contains the Shadow Weave (ie magic that enhances mind control, deception, necromancy, and killing), it absorbed the Demiplane of Dread, definitely a plane known for containing evil. Its home to shadow dragons and lots of undead.
And the Negative Energy Plane was involved in its creation if I remember right.
I've always viewed necrotic as a life stealing sort of damage. When you deal necrotic you're sucking the life out of your opponent, which is why most undead are resistant to it. They dont have that mucj of a life to take. To me, thats pretty on point with the idea of a god of death. Does it help against undead? No, but thats not the gods domain. The Raven Queen is about when folks die. She can hate undead who avoid it as much as she wants, but her focus is death itself.
As for the specter I imagine it more like borrowing from the raven queen for a day. She gets the soul for eternity or sends em on their way, so whats a 24 hour period for one of her warlocks?
About the specter - keep in mind that you're not summoning a spirit from somewhere. You're STEALING A SOUL and binding it to your purpose for a day. Chances are, you've cut down an orc or a human bandit, and forcing their spiritual remains to do your bidding. While Chaotic Evil might not be the best here all the time, its unlikely we're dealing a righteous soul here.
Specters don't remember who they used to be. They're chaotic evil because existing sucks for them and they can't move on, so they resent the living and lash out with violence.
In this case it doesn't matter much since the specter is under the Warlock's control and will still move on to the afterlife.
Not quite true. Specters don't have CONNECTIONS to the life they lived before. No anchors, no unfinished business (other than the dark magic compelling them to stay around, in the hexblade case) to keep them around; they're defined in contrasts to ghost, who can be "redeemed" when the unfinished business is over. The write up says nothing about the specters losing their memories of whom they were before.
Irregardless, the specter summoned by the Hexblade is clearly a variation, since specters generally can't move on to the afterlife, only be destroyed, while those created by this warlock do after a day; the normal motives and urges of a specter is cast into doubt as a result. As well, I was speaking from the perspective on why the specter (or ghost, or whatever) wouldn't match the warlock's alignment. It wouldn't make sense for the specter to match the warlock's alignment, because you're stealing the soul of something that has its own personality. As a result, I'm hesitant to claim that the hexblade's specters are defined in the same way as other specters.
Oh, hey! Ghosts and specters do have necrotic immunity! Was totally wrong about those. I looked over the usual suspects (zombies, death knights, liches, etc) and not the ephemerals. Curious.
Specters don't have CONNECTIONS to the life they lived before.
Memories are the biggest connection you could possibly have to who or what you are, in life or in death. The part that contrasts them with ghosts is a separate paragraph.
and Hex
Isnt it a bit strange that the RavenQueen despises sentient undeads and wants you to hunt them, but your abilities heal them if you hit them with it? Should the warlocks choosing her as patron be able to choose Radient or Force damage instead?
The Raven Queen is a goddess (sorta?) of the Shadowfell, a place embodying dark magics. Necrotic energy, ghosts, and the like are kinda everywhere there. So, makes sense that way. Now, necrotic energy from the fey or celestial Patrons is a bit strange, but the Raven Queen makes perfect sense.
I don't see any undead that get healed from taking necrotic damage. I see plenty of resistance to necrotic damage, and some immunity to it, but no outright healing.
I'm not sure the Raven Queen hates undead. She hates Orcus, because they're at war with each other, and she's a (?) goddess of psychopomps, but I don't think she goes out of her way to despise the intelligent undead.
In the general D&D multiverse, the Raven Queen is a quasi-deity who watches souls from the Shadowfell as they transfer from the dead to the outer planes. See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXWgG83jyaI
You're thinking of the Pathfinder / Critical Role (Exandria) brand of Raven Queen. She is the Raven Queen motif transferred to Kelemvor's divine portfolio. She's the one who hates undead. No relation to the basic D&D canon that informs the D&D rules.
Regardless, necrotic damage doesn't heal undead. Many are resistant or immune to it, but a surprising number of undead take full damage from necrotic. And even if we assumed that the Raven Queen hated undead, that doesn't mean she has any ability to let you do radiant damage - she's associated with the Shadowfell and/or dominion over death, both of which are substantially "necrotic" in theme.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Well, she is a psychopomp, and its her "job" to make sure that souls continue their journey. So, it makes sense that she is opposed to things like liches, who deliberately keep their souls trapped in the mortal shell and refuse to move on. Or ghosts and specters. Its arguable if vampires have their original souls (I think it depends on the DM?); a soulless vampire would likely not rouse the Raven Queen's interest, while vampires with souls would. Someone condemned by the gods to be punished as a cursed banshee would also likely earn a pass - they're already suffering their pre-ordained fate.
That said, its not like the Raven Queen hasn't made exceptions to her own rules before. People bargain with her to return the dead to life, and in 4e, she was the patron of an entire playable "race" of undead revenants. And even the Hexblade itself creates itself creates intelligent undead (specters).
Sorry about the necrotic healing mistake, that probably happened in earlier editions.
But yes, the dislike towards intelligent undeads was mentioned in the UA: Warlock & Wizard. And reading about her in the previous editions also mentions her as such. Never read about the Pathfinder versions.
I find the HexBlade quite confusing and the RavenQueen even more confusing. She has usually been unaligned (at least thats what I found out) and seems to focus on the fate of the souls and etc, yet the ability you get from a HexBlade gives you a Chaotic Evil Specter to aid you. The Shadowfell, even though it is a plane full of death and decay and despair, is also unaligned plane(at least according to my investigations), making the evil taint of the HexBlade even more disturbing. Seeing that a Warlock is not bound by alignement and, to my understanding, the pact you engage with a Patron is nowhere close to be as binding as lets say a Clerics relationship to its deity, one would think that a sort of ghost or maybe a modified Specter would be more fitting. And with modified I mean that the summoned undead maybe mirrors the Warlocks alignement.
Also, what happens to the soul of the poor sod after the Specter is done serving you? Is it so that all the souls traverse through the Shadowfell on their way to the Fugue Plane to await their final judgement? Will they still be Chaotic Evil after leaving the natural world?
About the specter - keep in mind that you're not summoning a spirit from somewhere. You're STEALING A SOUL and binding it to your purpose for a day. Chances are, you've cut down an orc or a human bandit, and forcing their spiritual remains to do your bidding. While Chaotic Evil might not be the best here all the time, its unlikely we're dealing a righteous soul here.
The Shadowfell, while technically neutral, is only neutral because its an Material Echo Plane; only the Outer Planes have realms with an alignment. In reality, its always been on the eviler side. It contains the Shadow Weave (ie magic that enhances mind control, deception, necromancy, and killing), it absorbed the Demiplane of Dread, definitely a plane known for containing evil. Its home to shadow dragons and lots of undead.
Warlock might not be bound by alignment, but the class as a whole definitely is defined in no small part by curses and other dark magics. It definitely represents the darker aspects of a lot of things. There was major debate if it was even appropriate to have a celestial warlock, because of the heavy presence of necrotic magic and debilitating spells. Warlocks are all kind of dark/edgy that way. Maybe not evil, but certainly not dealing with fluffy.
Specters don't remember who they used to be. They're chaotic evil because existing sucks for them and they can't move on, so they resent the living and lash out with violence.
In this case it doesn't matter much since the specter is under the Warlock's control and will still move on to the afterlife.
And the Negative Energy Plane was involved in its creation if I remember right.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
I've always viewed necrotic as a life stealing sort of damage. When you deal necrotic you're sucking the life out of your opponent, which is why most undead are resistant to it. They dont have that mucj of a life to take. To me, thats pretty on point with the idea of a god of death. Does it help against undead? No, but thats not the gods domain. The Raven Queen is about when folks die. She can hate undead who avoid it as much as she wants, but her focus is death itself.
As for the specter I imagine it more like borrowing from the raven queen for a day. She gets the soul for eternity or sends em on their way, so whats a 24 hour period for one of her warlocks?
Memories are the biggest connection you could possibly have to who or what you are, in life or in death. The part that contrasts them with ghosts is a separate paragraph.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Um, with all due respect, while you can run games that way if you so choose, I disagree that's what the passage is saying.
Thanks for the input! Its given me alot to think about and to discuss with the DM!