Okay so recentely my fire genasi eldritch knight died due to him sacrificing himself to save the party. He was one of the two main frontliners due to the rest of the party being squishy so I'm looking into creating a Celestial Warlock/Anciestal Barbarian that can protect the party while offering some utility out of combat. I'm fully aware that rage will make it hard to cast and this build will be very MAD but I really like the concept.
The problem is I don't know how to go about leveling with this character or what spells will work best with him. Anyone got any good tips, or how to go about this?
Armor of Agathys is probably the best for a Barbarian/Warlock. Temp HP + Resistance is a potent combo. This spell makes it even more potent by doing a significant amount of damage in return when you're hit by an attack.
Because you will primarily cast when not raging, out of combat spells or spells you can cast before raging will probably be your best choices. It's also good to take options like Invisibility that grow in usefulness when upcast.
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OK. I have played an ancients barbarian/celestial warlock. The important questions up front are what are you getting extra attack in, and naked/medium armor.
The rage mechanic will not be very useful for you if you go heavy warlock. You will eventually run out of things to do that are worthwhile during your rage. I would recommend going barbarian for extra attack. For levels I would get straight to 3 for barbarian. You need the ancestor mechanic going. Then a 1 level dip in celestial to grab the level 1 bene's. Then back to barbarian. I would pick up Gift of the Metallic dragon here. You now have an extra cure wounds, and prof bonus ability to block an attack. Go to 5th or 6th for the damage reduction reaction. From here I would probably go back to warlock for a few levels to grab invocations and a pact (pact of the talisman is extra protecty). So at 10th level you would be something like 7/3 or 6/4.
Pesonally I went with 2 levels of warlock before level 5 barbarian and I wouldn't recommend. Going two levels without extra attack caused its own problems. Currently I am playing a barbarian with a level of genie lock. For levels 3 and 4 I will be doing significantly more damage by having hex and genie's wrath available. Level 5 I will have a small dip in damage without extra attack, and then level 6 (5/1) he will be back ahead of the non GWM curve. Its not just doable, but preferable to waiting for extra attack if you have more than 2 encounters per day, because you run out of rage otherwise. With a level of warlock you have 2 rages, and a hex per short rest to improve damage. Also with eldritch blast you have the ability to do ranged damage when the fight calls for it and the fight's front line is too far away.
Many will tell you that you should wait until after level 5 for extra attack to multiclass and that is a sound decision. Personally if I am building a multiclass character I want it to have that character before level 5 so that I can build it into the character early on.
Alright, I'm thinking of doing 5 levels into Barbarian just to get extra attack as soon as possible, and get some medium armor so I don't rely on unarmored defense. From there I'm thinking either taking a couple of levels in celestial warlock or just go full warlock for armor of agathys to scale better along with other spells and get more invocatons.
Just remember that Barb's cannot concentrate on spells while raging so Hex is kind of a trap. You can use it when you've run out of rages, but not with.
Barbarian is the worst multiclass for a Warlock. For any caster actually. However, there are some good spells that have a decent duration, and don't use concetration (Armor of Agathys as you've been told is one of your best options).
In any case, why not fit that concept you want to play in another class? If you want to be tough, and have healing spells, the best options are Paladin, Druid, or Cleric.
Yes, Barbarian/warlock isn't the greatest idea but I have come to love the flavor of the two. I always loved playing barbarian but hated the fact that I can't due squat outside of combat. So that's why I'm choosing to go with this multiclass, mainly for flavor and utility options.
So why does warlock work well with barbarian compared to other casters: A number of non spell, spell like abilities that get around Rage from subclasses or invocations (Celestial has the bonus action healing, fathomless has the tentacle, undead has form of dread). The combination of gift of the everloving ones and the bonus action healing on a raging barbarian is really, really great. A few non concentration spells at low leves that do great things with rage and don't require a good casting stat: Armor of Agathys, Mirror Image. A concentration spell that can help boost damage in encounters when you don't rage: Hex And a host of spells that can be used for exploration. In general it gets harder to justify warlock levels above 3 as the spells become harder to work on a bad casting stat caster who can't concentrate.
The pact features primarily chain and tome provide a great amount of versatility to the character as well. Spell slots come back on a short rest which is great, since most barbarian options are long rest. In my opinion I would recommend going to at least level 5 in barbarian first to get extra attack.
I find barbarian to be a weak class above 6th or 7th level with minimal gains (outside of a few subclasses). You don't get indomitable like fighter, or a third attack, or higher spells like ranger/paladin, rage damage increases extremely slowly, and you have the same number of rages from level 6 to 11 (4). It begs to be multiclassed there.
In my opinion the only caster class that works well with barbarian is druid. Thematically it's adequate but also Rage and Wildshape work well together making one of the hardest builds to kill. And you still have utility outside of combat. To heal, for example (although healing is more useful in combat, IMO). But if you want to play warlock with barbarian, nothing prohibits you. It's just that these are two classes that don't work well together, and you're going to be worse off than a singleclass of either.
I think both the druid and warlock builds work off a very simple situation. After 5th or 6th level the barbarian gets very little from its class to make it valuable to continue in it. Brutal critical is given 3 times and not very valuable (tripling down on an ability that gives marginal impact just makes it more annoying). One level of genie warlock adding your proficiency bonus to one hit per round exceeds the average damage given by brutal critical at each of the levels you would get brutal critical. It nearly covers the increase in damage from Rage from +2 to +4 over the next 14 levels.
So you don't need barbarian for more damage. What about survivability? Well Druid does well there, so does cleric, so does a number of warlocks (fiend, celestical, gift of the ever loving ones).
How about any other portion of the game (exploration, intrigue, support)? You probably get more from a caster.
Even if the caster does absolultely nothing for you in combat you have sacrificed so little in damage and survivability that with careful spell selection even with a poor casting stat you should come out ahead when you factor in all phases of the game.
I am being a little rough on the barbarian here.
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Okay so recentely my fire genasi eldritch knight died due to him sacrificing himself to save the party. He was one of the two main frontliners due to the rest of the party being squishy so I'm looking into creating a Celestial Warlock/Anciestal Barbarian that can protect the party while offering some utility out of combat. I'm fully aware that rage will make it hard to cast and this build will be very MAD but I really like the concept.
The problem is I don't know how to go about leveling with this character or what spells will work best with him. Anyone got any good tips, or how to go about this?
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ModeratorArmor of Agathys is probably the best for a Barbarian/Warlock. Temp HP + Resistance is a potent combo. This spell makes it even more potent by doing a significant amount of damage in return when you're hit by an attack.
Because you will primarily cast when not raging, out of combat spells or spells you can cast before raging will probably be your best choices. It's also good to take options like Invisibility that grow in usefulness when upcast.
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OK. I have played an ancients barbarian/celestial warlock. The important questions up front are what are you getting extra attack in, and naked/medium armor.
The rage mechanic will not be very useful for you if you go heavy warlock. You will eventually run out of things to do that are worthwhile during your rage. I would recommend going barbarian for extra attack.
For levels I would get straight to 3 for barbarian. You need the ancestor mechanic going.
Then a 1 level dip in celestial to grab the level 1 bene's.
Then back to barbarian. I would pick up Gift of the Metallic dragon here. You now have an extra cure wounds, and prof bonus ability to block an attack. Go to 5th or 6th for the damage reduction reaction.
From here I would probably go back to warlock for a few levels to grab invocations and a pact (pact of the talisman is extra protecty).
So at 10th level you would be something like 7/3 or 6/4.
Pesonally I went with 2 levels of warlock before level 5 barbarian and I wouldn't recommend. Going two levels without extra attack caused its own problems. Currently I am playing a barbarian with a level of genie lock. For levels 3 and 4 I will be doing significantly more damage by having hex and genie's wrath available. Level 5 I will have a small dip in damage without extra attack, and then level 6 (5/1) he will be back ahead of the non GWM curve. Its not just doable, but preferable to waiting for extra attack if you have more than 2 encounters per day, because you run out of rage otherwise. With a level of warlock you have 2 rages, and a hex per short rest to improve damage. Also with eldritch blast you have the ability to do ranged damage when the fight calls for it and the fight's front line is too far away.
Many will tell you that you should wait until after level 5 for extra attack to multiclass and that is a sound decision. Personally if I am building a multiclass character I want it to have that character before level 5 so that I can build it into the character early on.
Alright, I'm thinking of doing 5 levels into Barbarian just to get extra attack as soon as possible, and get some medium armor so I don't rely on unarmored defense. From there I'm thinking either taking a couple of levels in celestial warlock or just go full warlock for armor of agathys to scale better along with other spells and get more invocatons.
Just remember that Barb's cannot concentrate on spells while raging so Hex is kind of a trap. You can use it when you've run out of rages, but not with.
Barbarian is the worst multiclass for a Warlock. For any caster actually.
However, there are some good spells that have a decent duration, and don't use concetration (Armor of Agathys as you've been told is one of your best options).
In any case, why not fit that concept you want to play in another class?
If you want to be tough, and have healing spells, the best options are Paladin, Druid, or Cleric.
Yes, Barbarian/warlock isn't the greatest idea but I have come to love the flavor of the two. I always loved playing barbarian but hated the fact that I can't due squat outside of combat. So that's why I'm choosing to go with this multiclass, mainly for flavor and utility options.
So why does warlock work well with barbarian compared to other casters:
A number of non spell, spell like abilities that get around Rage from subclasses or invocations (Celestial has the bonus action healing, fathomless has the tentacle, undead has form of dread). The combination of gift of the everloving ones and the bonus action healing on a raging barbarian is really, really great.
A few non concentration spells at low leves that do great things with rage and don't require a good casting stat: Armor of Agathys, Mirror Image.
A concentration spell that can help boost damage in encounters when you don't rage: Hex
And a host of spells that can be used for exploration.
In general it gets harder to justify warlock levels above 3 as the spells become harder to work on a bad casting stat caster who can't concentrate.
The pact features primarily chain and tome provide a great amount of versatility to the character as well.
Spell slots come back on a short rest which is great, since most barbarian options are long rest.
In my opinion I would recommend going to at least level 5 in barbarian first to get extra attack.
I find barbarian to be a weak class above 6th or 7th level with minimal gains (outside of a few subclasses). You don't get indomitable like fighter, or a third attack, or higher spells like ranger/paladin, rage damage increases extremely slowly, and you have the same number of rages from level 6 to 11 (4). It begs to be multiclassed there.
In my opinion the only caster class that works well with barbarian is druid. Thematically it's adequate but also Rage and Wildshape work well together making one of the hardest builds to kill. And you still have utility outside of combat. To heal, for example (although healing is more useful in combat, IMO).
But if you want to play warlock with barbarian, nothing prohibits you. It's just that these are two classes that don't work well together, and you're going to be worse off than a singleclass of either.
I think both the druid and warlock builds work off a very simple situation. After 5th or 6th level the barbarian gets very little from its class to make it valuable to continue in it. Brutal critical is given 3 times and not very valuable (tripling down on an ability that gives marginal impact just makes it more annoying). One level of genie warlock adding your proficiency bonus to one hit per round exceeds the average damage given by brutal critical at each of the levels you would get brutal critical. It nearly covers the increase in damage from Rage from +2 to +4 over the next 14 levels.
So you don't need barbarian for more damage. What about survivability? Well Druid does well there, so does cleric, so does a number of warlocks (fiend, celestical, gift of the ever loving ones).
How about any other portion of the game (exploration, intrigue, support)? You probably get more from a caster.
Even if the caster does absolultely nothing for you in combat you have sacrificed so little in damage and survivability that with careful spell selection even with a poor casting stat you should come out ahead when you factor in all phases of the game.
I am being a little rough on the barbarian here.