Its not that big of a Ac gap no matter which way you go. Take medium prof at 4, its a 17, go chr with a good dex and take a mage armor invocation its 16, go full dex its 18 when you bump dex to 20. Add in blade ward for 1-4 vs attacks. Get some temp hit points that kill enemies when they attack to dissuade them, be a archfey to teleport away and turn invisible as a reaction. I think the defense is looking solid enough for a caster/warrior. it should not be as good as a full fighters(though 1 level dip gets you that) And its not that much better unless its a sword and shield style fighter who ends up with 18 when they eventually can afford plate. At the worst point of this you get hit 10% more often than a fighter in plate. Just focus on a fighting style that is not shield based. Sure you need to likely leave a 13 free in strength for the combat feats you want, but that isn't huge, you will be dumping wis/int good dex, good chr, okay con and strengh.
I find it irksome that you cannot have a ranged pact weapon. As Improved pact weapon allowed you to do that. Granted, some may ask "Why not use Eldritch Bast?", but I liked trying to build Longbow builds for each class. And Honestly, a ranged weapon user sounds better for a spellcaster class.
By the wording, you can use a ranged weapon, ot just has to be magical.
I find it irksome that you cannot have a ranged pact weapon. As Improved pact weapon allowed you to do that. Granted, some may ask "Why not use Eldritch Bast?", but I liked trying to build Longbow builds for each class. And Honestly, a ranged weapon user sounds better for a spellcaster class.
By the wording, you can use a ranged weapon, ot just has to be magical.
Yes I think you can bind to one, just not summon one.
Am i the only one pissed off that they changed how the "Bond" of the Pact Weapon works from before?
2014 Rules you could make a Weapon your pact weapon and after a minute or more than 5ft for you, it would go back into its Interdimensional space, from wich you could just resummn it.
2024 rules, if you are more than 5ft of the weapon for a minute, the Bond breaks, with the weapon laying there...
But on the other hand, the Eldritch Knight figher War bond, still allows you to teleport the weapon to your hand when you are separated from it, its used to be tat you needed to be within 1mile of it, now you just need to be on the same plane of existance!
Why?, why this change?
A couple of times this feature saved my bacon cause i was left unarmed after being captured and frisked of all my gear and i had to escape, so being able to summon my trsutee +2 Greatsword was CERTAINLY helpfull...
Yes you can simply create a new one for the duration of the situation, but ******* hell, if i go through the trouble of buying/finding a +X weapon, IMMA USE IT.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
I won't say I'm pissed about it, but I think it was a miss. I'd of gone deeper that direction instead of retreating. It is already very invocation dense but i could see some more invocations for it. Like bringing that back, maybe with some addendum that while its in a pocket dimension you can create other weapons as well. Some ability to summon 2 weapons for 2 weapon wielders. Maybe a shield or armor creation.
Honestly I probably never take armor of shadows you can just take lesson's of the first one and take magic initiate wizard and take mage armor that way and enjoy 2 more cantrips. 1 casting of mage armor should be enough for the day.
Honestly I probably never take armor of shadows you can just take lesson's of the first one and take magic initiate wizard and take mage armor that way and enjoy 2 more cantrips. 1 casting of mage armor should be enough for the day.
I think warlocks shouldn't get light armor proficiency but armor of shadows should be baked in, and then have a invocation, sub class features etc that can improve it for those who want to be tanky. but oh well, for those who think that 1 Ac is worth it, lessons of the first one is probably the better option though if you already have magic init wizard for some other 1st level spell you are out of luck.
Honestly I probably never take armor of shadows you can just take lesson's of the first one and take magic initiate wizard and take mage armor that way and enjoy 2 more cantrips. 1 casting of mage armor should be enough for the day.
I think warlocks shouldn't get light armor proficiency but armor of shadows should be baked in, and then have a invocation, sub class features etc that can improve it for those who want to be tanky. but oh well, for those who think that 1 Ac is worth it, lessons of the first one is probably the better option though if you already have magic init wizard for some other 1st level spell you are out of luck.
Honestly, In general I am a little disappointed with the invocations. They removed the invocations that cost a spell slot but did nothing to put those spells back in any way. They could have kept it and just removed the spell slot requirement and just made them "once per day without spending a spell slot" for some of them like they had with animate dead in one of the books. Even if they weren't the best options having the option was better than not to me. and some of the invocations like armor of shadows didn't get updated to really fit with what is new.
Honestly I probably never take armor of shadows you can just take lesson's of the first one and take magic initiate wizard and take mage armor that way and enjoy 2 more cantrips. 1 casting of mage armor should be enough for the day.
I think warlocks shouldn't get light armor proficiency but armor of shadows should be baked in, and then have a invocation, sub class features etc that can improve it for those who want to be tanky. but oh well, for those who think that 1 Ac is worth it, lessons of the first one is probably the better option though if you already have magic init wizard for some other 1st level spell you are out of luck.
I could totally get on board with this, even though it's a nerf once magic armor starts to come in play.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Also improved pact weapon is in xgte so it should still be legal so to speak with the 2024 rules.
Very true. Not having it listed in the character builder here on dndbeyond makes it feel like it doesn't exist, but RAW there's nothing stopping you from just leaving one invocation unselected and adding a +1 bonus to your pact weapon (currently I already have to customize the weapon to apply CHA anyway).
If we're complaining about missing Invocations though here's mine: Allow use of the weapon mastery property of your pact weapon.
Obviously this didn't exist before, but why not have a means now? I feel like bladelock is being left out of the fun. If we're committing enough to run into battle with your CHA-based melee weapon, why not give us the option of playing with masteries?
Using an entire general feat on this seems like a waste, an invocation would be a perfect resource to expend.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
D&D player going back to the 90s with 2e and 3e. Didn't play for years and ended up skipping 3.5e and 4e entirely. Very excited about the openness and clarity of 5e.
Experiences DMing were mostly misadventures back in the day, but trying to be ready to be a decent DM now that my wisdom has gone up a bit.
My personal bladelock struggle right now is choosing between Armor of Shadows and Fiendish Vigor. I'm going Archfey, so I'll have a source of THP from my misty steps, and I was planning to use Armor of Agathys 99% of the time, but that means I'm tripled up on sources of THP and it's diminishing returns territory. (other details: Plan to cast Hex whenever possible and grab Polearm Master at level 4)
Starting every single fight with 12 THP would be awesome, since there will be times I don't have a slot to cast Agathys, and theoretically I could case False Life during fights to top up Armor of Agathys, but in practice using my entire action is probably going to feel like a bad deal.
It's just so crazy that they both increased False Life by 1d4, and updated Fiendish Vigor to max out the dice automatically. 12 THP is a LOT, especially at lower levels, and more than the Archfey misty step could ever give. It seems exciting as a way to maintain Armor of Agathys for multiple fights, since it will automatically reset to 12 once the fight ends, and it means that if your Armor of Agathys is ever running on empty with just a couple HP, I can sacrifice a round to essentially regain the spell slot and keep it active for a couple more hits. It's paradoxical that Fiendish Vigor both upgrades Armor of Agathys in many scenarios and conflicts with it in others.
I guess another argument in favor of Fiendish Vigor is that it's not using a spell slot to cast, so I could do it and still cast a bonus action spell like Misty Step, and in particular I could definitely do the Archfey misty step as a BA, but the "taunting step" version, then cast False Life on myself to top up Armor of Agathys, so that if they do follow me, they get the cold damage..
Anyone have thoughts on this question? Gaining only 1 AC over studded leather seems like a ridiculous use of an invocation, but every point of AC surely counts in the long run. 12 THP seems like a lot, and would come up regularly I imagine, but I wonder if all the juggling of THP sources will end up being a pain.
D&D player going back to the 90s with 2e and 3e. Didn't play for years and ended up skipping 3.5e and 4e entirely. Very excited about the openness and clarity of 5e.
Experiences DMing were mostly misadventures back in the day, but trying to be ready to be a decent DM now that my wisdom has gone up a bit.
So for sh!ts and giggles, I tried recreating my 2014 warlock using the 2024 rules.
The character is 7th level, pact of the blade, hexblade patron, Levistus tiefling.
Overall, the builds are pretty equal; in terms of spells available, the 2024 version is superior thanks to origin feats and the improved patron spells. DDB current bugs aside (it's not correctly calculating the attack modifier for the 2024 warlock's pact weapon), there are only two big problems.
First is armor class. Warlock's only have training in light armor, and in building the 2024 version, I couldn't even choose the Moderately Armored feat (I don't know if that's a bug or a genuine design choice). So even with mage armor, a warlock with decent dexterity is going to have a bad AC - around 15, which is less than ideal if you want to be a melee warlock. The good news is that I was able to manually add in training for shields and medium armor, but that would ultimately be something the DM would have to approve. But using the 2024 RAW: a warlock's AC is going to be bad.
Second is that Improved Pact Weapon is not available as an invocation for the 2024 build. This reduces the attack and damage modifier for the pact weapon by 1 compared to the 2014 build. Granted, that's relatively minor compared to the poor AC, but it's still a weakening.
Again, I was using ONLY the 2024 rules set. I didn't use anything from 2014-2023. The goal was to see how closely I could recreate the character using only the updated rules.
And, as I indicate above, it was a much closer match than I anticipated, with a couple of significant exceptions.
My personal bladelock struggle right now is choosing between Armor of Shadows and Fiendish Vigor. I'm going Archfey, so I'll have a source of THP from my misty steps, and I was planning to use Armor of Agathys 99% of the time, but that means I'm tripled up on sources of THP and it's diminishing returns territory. (other details: Plan to cast Hex whenever possible and grab Polearm Master at level 4)
Starting every single fight with 12 THP would be awesome, since there will be times I don't have a slot to cast Agathys, and theoretically I could case False Life during fights to top up Armor of Agathys, but in practice using my entire action is probably going to feel like a bad deal.
It's just so crazy that they both increased False Life by 1d4, and updated Fiendish Vigor to max out the dice automatically. 12 THP is a LOT, especially at lower levels, and more than the Archfey misty step could ever give. It seems exciting as a way to maintain Armor of Agathys for multiple fights, since it will automatically reset to 12 once the fight ends, and it means that if your Armor of Agathys is ever running on empty with just a couple HP, I can sacrifice a round to essentially regain the spell slot and keep it active for a couple more hits. It's paradoxical that Fiendish Vigor both upgrades Armor of Agathys in many scenarios and conflicts with it in others.
I guess another argument in favor of Fiendish Vigor is that it's not using a spell slot to cast, so I could do it and still cast a bonus action spell like Misty Step, and in particular I could definitely do the Archfey misty step as a BA, but the "taunting step" version, then cast False Life on myself to top up Armor of Agathys, so that if they do follow me, they get the cold damage..
Anyone have thoughts on this question? Gaining only 1 AC over studded leather seems like a ridiculous use of an invocation, but every point of AC surely counts in the long run. 12 THP seems like a lot, and would come up regularly I imagine, but I wonder if all the juggling of THP sources will end up being a pain.
I view armor of shadows as a trap. It's the same thing as +1 studded.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Honestly I probably never take armor of shadows you can just take lesson's of the first one and take magic initiate wizard and take mage armor that way and enjoy 2 more cantrips. 1 casting of mage armor should be enough for the day.
I think warlocks shouldn't get light armor proficiency but armor of shadows should be baked in, and then have a invocation, sub class features etc that can improve it for those who want to be tanky. but oh well, for those who think that 1 Ac is worth it, lessons of the first one is probably the better option though if you already have magic init wizard for some other 1st level spell you are out of luck.
I could totally get on board with this, even though it's a nerf once magic armor starts to come in play.
True, though there are ways around it. 1 thing I was thinking about in regards to the soul knife is there should be magic items keyed to classes and sub classes more. As the soul knifes core sub class feature the reason you use it starts looking bad once you get magic weapons. But bracers of mind death that make a soul knifes psychic blades +1/2/3 to hit/dmg lets a soul knife act like a soul knife throughout the campaign. So bracers of shadows that improve armor of shadows can work. Ideally imo they would have level requirements to reduce dips but dips are a pet peeve of mine.
The wording on the new Pact of the Blade invocation does not limit the weapon to be melee only.
"As a Bonus Action, you can conjure a pact weapon in your hand—a Simple or Martial Melee weapon of your choice with which you bond—or create a bond with a magic weapon you touch; you can’t bond with a magic weapon if someone else is attuned to it or another Warlock is bonded with it. Until the bond ends, you have proficiency with the weapon, and you can use it as a Spellcasting Focus."
It can be any weapon at all, and you are proficient with it while you wield it, and you use CHA modifier on it. So you can BA get a longbow, and when the enemies rush you, next turn you BA a longsword, pike, Warhammer, or whatever.
Also, if you mix 2024 and 2014, you a use 2014 Moderately Armored to get medium armor and shields. DDB works correctly to make this happen now, too.
So you take Pact of the Blade and first chance you get take 2014 Moderately Armored, and later you could even add Improved Pact Weapon. However, the latter doesn't gain you much beyond +1 and it's a magical weapon. Give you a use your Pact weapon for Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant damage negates the need for IPW unless you really want that +1.
Well sort of as you can only bind to magic ranged weapons. So if you have a magic long bow you can bonus action bind to that bow, then a BA summon a long sword, then swap back to the bow as a bonus action. It makes me wonder why they bothered putting the limit in at all.
My question is, using the 2nd level spell Magic Weapon to make a non-magical bow into a magical weapon. the spell lasts for an hour, and says the weapon becomes a magic weapon with a +1 bonus. By an exact reading, you /should/ be able to bond the bow in the 1 hour window that it's magical. As long as you don't unbond, it should remain bonded. The bond criteria does not include the weapon no longer being magical.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
My question is, using the 2nd level spell Magic Weapon to make a non-magical bow into a magical weapon. the spell lasts for an hour, and says the weapon becomes a magic weapon with a +1 bonus. By an exact reading, you /should/ be able to bond the bow in the 1 hour window that it's magical. As long as you don't unbond, it should remain bonded. The bond criteria does not include the weapon no longer being magical.
Clever. If you have a party member capable of casting it that is a interesting work around.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Its not that big of a Ac gap no matter which way you go. Take medium prof at 4, its a 17, go chr with a good dex and take a mage armor invocation its 16, go full dex its 18 when you bump dex to 20. Add in blade ward for 1-4 vs attacks. Get some temp hit points that kill enemies when they attack to dissuade them, be a archfey to teleport away and turn invisible as a reaction. I think the defense is looking solid enough for a caster/warrior. it should not be as good as a full fighters(though 1 level dip gets you that) And its not that much better unless its a sword and shield style fighter who ends up with 18 when they eventually can afford plate. At the worst point of this you get hit 10% more often than a fighter in plate. Just focus on a fighting style that is not shield based. Sure you need to likely leave a 13 free in strength for the combat feats you want, but that isn't huge, you will be dumping wis/int good dex, good chr, okay con and strengh.
By the wording, you can use a ranged weapon, ot just has to be magical.
Yes I think you can bind to one, just not summon one.
Also improved pact weapon is in xgte so it should still be legal so to speak with the 2024 rules.
Am i the only one pissed off that they changed how the "Bond" of the Pact Weapon works from before?
2014 Rules you could make a Weapon your pact weapon and after a minute or more than 5ft for you, it would go back into its Interdimensional space, from wich you could just resummn it.
2024 rules, if you are more than 5ft of the weapon for a minute, the Bond breaks, with the weapon laying there...
But on the other hand, the Eldritch Knight figher War bond, still allows you to teleport the weapon to your hand when you are separated from it, its used to be tat you needed to be within 1mile of it, now you just need to be on the same plane of existance!
Why?, why this change?
A couple of times this feature saved my bacon cause i was left unarmed after being captured and frisked of all my gear and i had to escape, so being able to summon my trsutee +2 Greatsword was CERTAINLY helpfull...
Yes you can simply create a new one for the duration of the situation, but ******* hell, if i go through the trouble of buying/finding a +X weapon, IMMA USE IT.
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
I won't say I'm pissed about it, but I think it was a miss. I'd of gone deeper that direction instead of retreating. It is already very invocation dense but i could see some more invocations for it. Like bringing that back, maybe with some addendum that while its in a pocket dimension you can create other weapons as well. Some ability to summon 2 weapons for 2 weapon wielders. Maybe a shield or armor creation.
Honestly I probably never take armor of shadows you can just take lesson's of the first one and take magic initiate wizard and take mage armor that way and enjoy 2 more cantrips. 1 casting of mage armor should be enough for the day.
I think warlocks shouldn't get light armor proficiency but armor of shadows should be baked in, and then have a invocation, sub class features etc that can improve it for those who want to be tanky. but oh well, for those who think that 1 Ac is worth it, lessons of the first one is probably the better option though if you already have magic init wizard for some other 1st level spell you are out of luck.
Honestly, In general I am a little disappointed with the invocations. They removed the invocations that cost a spell slot but did nothing to put those spells back in any way. They could have kept it and just removed the spell slot requirement and just made them "once per day without spending a spell slot" for some of them like they had with animate dead in one of the books. Even if they weren't the best options having the option was better than not to me. and some of the invocations like armor of shadows didn't get updated to really fit with what is new.
I could totally get on board with this, even though it's a nerf once magic armor starts to come in play.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Very true. Not having it listed in the character builder here on dndbeyond makes it feel like it doesn't exist, but RAW there's nothing stopping you from just leaving one invocation unselected and adding a +1 bonus to your pact weapon (currently I already have to customize the weapon to apply CHA anyway).
If we're complaining about missing Invocations though here's mine: Allow use of the weapon mastery property of your pact weapon.
Obviously this didn't exist before, but why not have a means now? I feel like bladelock is being left out of the fun. If we're committing enough to run into battle with your CHA-based melee weapon, why not give us the option of playing with masteries?
Using an entire general feat on this seems like a waste, an invocation would be a perfect resource to expend.
D&D player going back to the 90s with 2e and 3e. Didn't play for years and ended up skipping 3.5e and 4e entirely. Very excited about the openness and clarity of 5e.
Experiences DMing were mostly misadventures back in the day, but trying to be ready to be a decent DM now that my wisdom has gone up a bit.
My personal bladelock struggle right now is choosing between Armor of Shadows and Fiendish Vigor. I'm going Archfey, so I'll have a source of THP from my misty steps, and I was planning to use Armor of Agathys 99% of the time, but that means I'm tripled up on sources of THP and it's diminishing returns territory. (other details: Plan to cast Hex whenever possible and grab Polearm Master at level 4)
Starting every single fight with 12 THP would be awesome, since there will be times I don't have a slot to cast Agathys, and theoretically I could case False Life during fights to top up Armor of Agathys, but in practice using my entire action is probably going to feel like a bad deal.
It's just so crazy that they both increased False Life by 1d4, and updated Fiendish Vigor to max out the dice automatically. 12 THP is a LOT, especially at lower levels, and more than the Archfey misty step could ever give. It seems exciting as a way to maintain Armor of Agathys for multiple fights, since it will automatically reset to 12 once the fight ends, and it means that if your Armor of Agathys is ever running on empty with just a couple HP, I can sacrifice a round to essentially regain the spell slot and keep it active for a couple more hits. It's paradoxical that Fiendish Vigor both upgrades Armor of Agathys in many scenarios and conflicts with it in others.
I guess another argument in favor of Fiendish Vigor is that it's not using a spell slot to cast, so I could do it and still cast a bonus action spell like Misty Step, and in particular I could definitely do the Archfey misty step as a BA, but the "taunting step" version, then cast False Life on myself to top up Armor of Agathys, so that if they do follow me, they get the cold damage..
Anyone have thoughts on this question? Gaining only 1 AC over studded leather seems like a ridiculous use of an invocation, but every point of AC surely counts in the long run. 12 THP seems like a lot, and would come up regularly I imagine, but I wonder if all the juggling of THP sources will end up being a pain.
D&D player going back to the 90s with 2e and 3e. Didn't play for years and ended up skipping 3.5e and 4e entirely. Very excited about the openness and clarity of 5e.
Experiences DMing were mostly misadventures back in the day, but trying to be ready to be a decent DM now that my wisdom has gone up a bit.
I thought Hexblade had medium armor proficiency?
KOBOLDS WITH CANNONS! A RP thread about Small humanoids with Huge weapons.
Proud member of the EVIL JEFF CULT! PRAISE JEFF!
Homebrew Races: HERE Homebrew Spells: HERE Homebrew Monsters: HERE
MORE OF ME! (And platypodes/platypi/platypuses) (Extended signature)
Again, I was using ONLY the 2024 rules set. I didn't use anything from 2014-2023. The goal was to see how closely I could recreate the character using only the updated rules.
And, as I indicate above, it was a much closer match than I anticipated, with a couple of significant exceptions.
I view armor of shadows as a trap. It's the same thing as +1 studded.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
True, though there are ways around it. 1 thing I was thinking about in regards to the soul knife is there should be magic items keyed to classes and sub classes more. As the soul knifes core sub class feature the reason you use it starts looking bad once you get magic weapons. But bracers of mind death that make a soul knifes psychic blades +1/2/3 to hit/dmg lets a soul knife act like a soul knife throughout the campaign. So bracers of shadows that improve armor of shadows can work. Ideally imo they would have level requirements to reduce dips but dips are a pet peeve of mine.
The wording on the new Pact of the Blade invocation does not limit the weapon to be melee only.
"As a Bonus Action, you can conjure a pact weapon in your hand—a Simple or Martial Melee weapon of your choice with which you bond—or create a bond with a magic weapon you touch; you can’t bond with a magic weapon if someone else is attuned to it or another Warlock is bonded with it. Until the bond ends, you have proficiency with the weapon, and you can use it as a Spellcasting Focus."
It can be any weapon at all, and you are proficient with it while you wield it, and you use CHA modifier on it. So you can BA get a longbow, and when the enemies rush you, next turn you BA a longsword, pike, Warhammer, or whatever.
Also, if you mix 2024 and 2014, you a use 2014 Moderately Armored to get medium armor and shields. DDB works correctly to make this happen now, too.
So you take Pact of the Blade and first chance you get take 2014 Moderately Armored, and later you could even add Improved Pact Weapon. However, the latter doesn't gain you much beyond +1 and it's a magical weapon. Give you a use your Pact weapon for Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant damage negates the need for IPW unless you really want that +1.
Well sort of as you can only bind to magic ranged weapons. So if you have a magic long bow you can bonus action bind to that bow, then a BA summon a long sword, then swap back to the bow as a bonus action. It makes me wonder why they bothered putting the limit in at all.
My question is, using the 2nd level spell Magic Weapon to make a non-magical bow into a magical weapon. the spell lasts for an hour, and says the weapon becomes a magic weapon with a +1 bonus. By an exact reading, you /should/ be able to bond the bow in the 1 hour window that it's magical. As long as you don't unbond, it should remain bonded. The bond criteria does not include the weapon no longer being magical.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Clever. If you have a party member capable of casting it that is a interesting work around.