Hey! I'm new to the warlock class and I thought a lich would be a super cool patron but I've heard some bad reviews on the undying warlock. Anyone who has played this class please let me know if I should invest a character in it. It would be very appreciated it. Thank you!
The subclass is lackluster. It's positive aspects are rather situational and overall the features only give you minor survivability. The general idea is fantastic but unfortunately the execution is rather poor and unfortunately I would refer to this as the most undesirable warlocks subclass.
I was actually recommend going hexblade instead because it doesn't require you to go pact of the blade. Comes from a goddess of death. Useful expanded spell list. At 6th lvl you can raise a Specter from slain enemies... good times.
The subclass is. . . probably the worst subclass in all of 5e. I would recommend the Undead otherworldly patron, from a recent Unearthed Arcane (if your DM will allow it). I have played one, and it was much better and much more interesting than an Undying Warlock would have been.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Hey! I'm new to the warlock class and I thought a lich would be a super cool patron but I've heard some bad reviews on the undying warlock. Anyone who has played this class please let me know if I should invest a character in it. It would be very appreciated it. Thank you!
It's very support-oriented. Getting access to spare the dying, alone, should clue you to that. Getting access to false life means you don't need Fiendish Vigor, and it scales up to 5th-level spell slots for 1d4 + 24 hit points. Yeah, it's a spell slot that you have to take a short rest to get back, but that's not a big deal. It's a massive dose of healing at once. And ray of sickness scales upward, to 6d8 poison damage. This is kind of like the subclass's wild card spell. Their early defenses are great against undead, and poison won't affect undead, but you won't always be fighting undead enemies.
Speaking of their defenses against the undead, the majority of undead monsters are melee combatants with no ranged options. This subclass works incredibly well in melee combat. Whether you take up the Pact of the Blade or not, I definitely suggest learning at least one of the melee cantrips: either booming blade or green-flame blade. Another strong contender is Pact of the Tome, so you can learn shillelagh along with one of those cantrips, but both come with their drawbacks. The former prioritizes Dexterity (or Strength, if you're investing in the Moderately Armored feat) while letting you wield a variety of magical weapons acquirable over your career. The latter doesn't need Dexterity that much, making the feat a more attractive option and potentially opening the door to additional feats. But you're also limited to just your magical wooden stick.
If you want a Lich patron, Undead is the way to go... it's a great sub-class. It's also supported on Beyond, so most DM's will ok it. Obviously, check with yours...
So far Undying Warlock is probably my favourite Warlock and also the worst Warlock subclass. The class features are lackluster, the spell list is probably the highlight of the entire subclass if you know how to use it. If you're in an RP-heavy game or in a campaign with a lot of Undead it has its glorious moments. Every other time you're likely to be better off with another subclass.
There is an entire Thread about the abomination that is the Undying Warlock and why it is disappointing found here.
If you are on the fence about the design about the Undying Warlock, that's fair. Let me help you make your decision: Look at the 14th level class feature of the Undying Warlock. Now look at the 1st level class feature of the Fighter. I rest my case.
Safe passage from low level undead(as they usually suffer wisdom penalties, they are likely going to fail saving throws, anyway if you have 2-3 levels of cleric to support your character you might turn undead if rest fails)
Living 10 times longer, without needing to breath, eat, drink, sleep and being immune to magical aging.(level 10)
Being able to regain lost limbs unless they are not completely destroyed.(level 14)
In the current campaign i am playing we have a death Cleric/undying Warlock (1,3 atm) i suspect he strives for 5 cleric/death, 5 wizard/necromancer, 10 warlock/undying, or some similar combination.
(my character is an avowed, cleric of knowledge-1, wizard/order of scribes-3, and training to be a monk atm)
If you are simply going through the game as a number crunching challenge to see who hits more you might be right about Undying Warlock, but imho it's level 10 ability overshadows all class features in the game since it gives character the opportunity to outlive his/her enemies with ease, living with pocket dimension is entirely feasible with it. (like enter a demiplane[even a portable hole-.-] and read stuff for a century or two without sleeping, eating, drinking or even breathing? no big deal for the character)
You think of classes as if they have fixed roles, that is manual playing, role playing has no such borders unless players wants such characters, playing without a tank is not really a big problem as there are smart npcs to which are generally mre dangerous and won't attack your tank unless they have good abilities to taunt(swashbuckler, some cleric, fighter and paladin subclasses), even then they might find a way through with a proper plan (and 14+ int npc would and should, if your party is famous enough).
Our current game is not really combat oriented, DM throws away fights on us, and we usually run away from most if we can, unless they give us no quarters or unless they are undead (we have a ranger with undead favored enemy -.-, who freaks out and attacks as soon as he senses the presence of undead sadly). In such games where players actually try to think like their characters(instead of characters thinking like the players :S) as it should be, undying warlocks' features are far beyond the borders of balanced, but then again who cares, i am not playing the game for balance and players are not opponents or copetitors.
It's hard to tell if you're being serious or trolling, especially when you're speaking as someone who not only isn't playing an undying warlock, but is speaking for someone else who's playing a lvl 4 multiclass. Maybe they agree with your take on the subclass or maybe you've played it before, so I won't presume otherwise. Either way, I disagree with most, if not all, of what you just wrote.
As someone who is currently playing a full level 9 undying warlock, yes it's lacking and situational. Some stuff is useful, like healing after succeeding a death save, but the "sanctuary" effect against undead is useless if you aren't fighting undead, which I think last happened a year ago. Also, failing their saving throws to attack me isn't exactly the same thing as "safe passage". If I need to get levels in a different class to support that, then yes, it's lacking.
The level 10 ability is nice roleplay, but will have very little application in-game. Not needing food, sleep, etc. could be useful in certain situations, true (not breathing for a century might be tricky, seeing as how it's a natural bodily function. Don't know if not needing to breathe is the same as not needing air, but I digress). On the other hand, assuming the demiplane has enough stuff to keep me from actually dying from boredom after a couple of hundred years, yes, I could go in a demiplane and outlive my enemies. The problem is that I would also outlive the rest of my party and most npcs, so that's useless outside of an end of campaign epilogue. Even then, I would age slower, not stop aging. Depending on the races, my enemies could just as easily outlive me. Also, you do still need to rest, otherwise you die from exhaustion.
Since your campaign sounds like it's pretty much non-combat, the level 14 reattachment of limbs would be even more useless. I've never even seen anyone lose a limb in any game anywhere. Seeing how y'all try to run from every fight, it's not gonna happen anyway, unless the warlock is targeted specifically because they can reattach it.
Like Bleikopf was saying, the expanded spells are actually pretty interesting, but the subclass features are pretty underwhelming. For me, that's fine. I basically picked it because it best matched what I was doing roleplay-wise with my character. I also have the Healer feat, another RP decision, but it's actually been pretty useful, meaning the free spare the dying cantrip isn't getting any use. Anyway, the roleplay applications for the class are good and it would probably make for an interesting enemy subclass (I should make a note for that), but it's definitely not as well-rounded as it could've been.
Hey! I'm new to the warlock class and I thought a lich would be a super cool patron but I've heard some bad reviews on the undying warlock. Anyone who has played this class please let me know if I should invest a character in it. It would be very appreciated it. Thank you!
The subclass is lackluster. It's positive aspects are rather situational and overall the features only give you minor survivability. The general idea is fantastic but unfortunately the execution is rather poor and unfortunately I would refer to this as the most undesirable warlocks subclass.
I was actually recommend going hexblade instead because it doesn't require you to go pact of the blade. Comes from a goddess of death. Useful expanded spell list. At 6th lvl you can raise a Specter from slain enemies... good times.
The subclass is. . . probably the worst subclass in all of 5e. I would recommend the Undead otherworldly patron, from a recent Unearthed Arcane (if your DM will allow it). I have played one, and it was much better and much more interesting than an Undying Warlock would have been.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
It's very support-oriented. Getting access to spare the dying, alone, should clue you to that. Getting access to false life means you don't need Fiendish Vigor, and it scales up to 5th-level spell slots for 1d4 + 24 hit points. Yeah, it's a spell slot that you have to take a short rest to get back, but that's not a big deal. It's a massive dose of healing at once. And ray of sickness scales upward, to 6d8 poison damage. This is kind of like the subclass's wild card spell. Their early defenses are great against undead, and poison won't affect undead, but you won't always be fighting undead enemies.
Speaking of their defenses against the undead, the majority of undead monsters are melee combatants with no ranged options. This subclass works incredibly well in melee combat. Whether you take up the Pact of the Blade or not, I definitely suggest learning at least one of the melee cantrips: either booming blade or green-flame blade. Another strong contender is Pact of the Tome, so you can learn shillelagh along with one of those cantrips, but both come with their drawbacks. The former prioritizes Dexterity (or Strength, if you're investing in the Moderately Armored feat) while letting you wield a variety of magical weapons acquirable over your career. The latter doesn't need Dexterity that much, making the feat a more attractive option and potentially opening the door to additional feats. But you're also limited to just your magical wooden stick.
If you want a Lich patron, Undead is the way to go... it's a great sub-class. It's also supported on Beyond, so most DM's will ok it. Obviously, check with yours...
So far Undying Warlock is probably my favourite Warlock and also the worst Warlock subclass. The class features are lackluster, the spell list is probably the highlight of the entire subclass if you know how to use it. If you're in an RP-heavy game or in a campaign with a lot of Undead it has its glorious moments. Every other time you're likely to be better off with another subclass.
There is an entire Thread about the abomination that is the Undying Warlock and why it is disappointing found here.
If you are on the fence about the design about the Undying Warlock, that's fair. Let me help you make your decision:
Look at the 14th level class feature of the Undying Warlock.
Now look at the 1st level class feature of the Fighter.
I rest my case.
Situational? Lacking?
Safe passage from low level undead(as they usually suffer wisdom penalties, they are likely going to fail saving throws, anyway if you have 2-3 levels of cleric to support your character you might turn undead if rest fails)
Living 10 times longer, without needing to breath, eat, drink, sleep and being immune to magical aging.(level 10)
Being able to regain lost limbs unless they are not completely destroyed.(level 14)
In the current campaign i am playing we have a death Cleric/undying Warlock (1,3 atm) i suspect he strives for 5 cleric/death, 5 wizard/necromancer, 10 warlock/undying, or some similar combination.
(my character is an avowed, cleric of knowledge-1, wizard/order of scribes-3, and training to be a monk atm)
If you are simply going through the game as a number crunching challenge to see who hits more you might be right about Undying Warlock, but imho it's level 10 ability overshadows all class features in the game since it gives character the opportunity to outlive his/her enemies with ease, living with pocket dimension is entirely feasible with it. (like enter a demiplane[even a portable hole-.-] and read stuff for a century or two without sleeping, eating, drinking or even breathing? no big deal for the character)
You think of classes as if they have fixed roles, that is manual playing, role playing has no such borders unless players wants such characters, playing without a tank is not really a big problem as there are smart npcs to which are generally mre dangerous and won't attack your tank unless they have good abilities to taunt(swashbuckler, some cleric, fighter and paladin subclasses), even then they might find a way through with a proper plan (and 14+ int npc would and should, if your party is famous enough).
Our current game is not really combat oriented, DM throws away fights on us, and we usually run away from most if we can, unless they give us no quarters or unless they are undead (we have a ranger with undead favored enemy -.-, who freaks out and attacks as soon as he senses the presence of undead sadly). In such games where players actually try to think like their characters(instead of characters thinking like the players :S) as it should be, undying warlocks' features are far beyond the borders of balanced, but then again who cares, i am not playing the game for balance and players are not opponents or copetitors.
Thser, buddy,
It's hard to tell if you're being serious or trolling, especially when you're speaking as someone who not only isn't playing an undying warlock, but is speaking for someone else who's playing a lvl 4 multiclass. Maybe they agree with your take on the subclass or maybe you've played it before, so I won't presume otherwise. Either way, I disagree with most, if not all, of what you just wrote.
As someone who is currently playing a full level 9 undying warlock, yes it's lacking and situational. Some stuff is useful, like healing after succeeding a death save, but the "sanctuary" effect against undead is useless if you aren't fighting undead, which I think last happened a year ago. Also, failing their saving throws to attack me isn't exactly the same thing as "safe passage". If I need to get levels in a different class to support that, then yes, it's lacking.
The level 10 ability is nice roleplay, but will have very little application in-game. Not needing food, sleep, etc. could be useful in certain situations, true (not breathing for a century might be tricky, seeing as how it's a natural bodily function. Don't know if not needing to breathe is the same as not needing air, but I digress). On the other hand, assuming the demiplane has enough stuff to keep me from actually dying from boredom after a couple of hundred years, yes, I could go in a demiplane and outlive my enemies. The problem is that I would also outlive the rest of my party and most npcs, so that's useless outside of an end of campaign epilogue. Even then, I would age slower, not stop aging. Depending on the races, my enemies could just as easily outlive me. Also, you do still need to rest, otherwise you die from exhaustion.
Since your campaign sounds like it's pretty much non-combat, the level 14 reattachment of limbs would be even more useless. I've never even seen anyone lose a limb in any game anywhere. Seeing how y'all try to run from every fight, it's not gonna happen anyway, unless the warlock is targeted specifically because they can reattach it.
Like Bleikopf was saying, the expanded spells are actually pretty interesting, but the subclass features are pretty underwhelming. For me, that's fine. I basically picked it because it best matched what I was doing roleplay-wise with my character. I also have the Healer feat, another RP decision, but it's actually been pretty useful, meaning the free spare the dying cantrip isn't getting any use. Anyway, the roleplay applications for the class are good and it would probably make for an interesting enemy subclass (I should make a note for that), but it's definitely not as well-rounded as it could've been.
Undying is trash. Use the undead patron instead.