the 2104 Necromance ris still viable and comp[atible, If a subclass/spell/feature etc has not been REWRITTNE it is still compatible and CORE, for all intents and purposes. 2014 Necromance ris still viable, Swashbuckle rofr Thieve sis sitll viable, the wer enot taken away, they jsut havent given them the 2024 treatment yet.
problem is, you have to then also PURCHASE the 2014 PHB. so what spells will you use? legacy or 2024 versions? kind of freaken pointless if you wanted to do just 2024 version of the game.
Anyone who is new to DND and starting with 2024 isn’t going to be worried about the necromancer subclass. If the first book they purchased was PHB2024 then they aren’t going to purchase 2014 for the old subclasses. The lack of a necromancer update is a problem for players making the transition. But it’s not a problem because old subclass still works with the 2024 wizard. You use the newest spells.
Anyone who is just now switching to dndbeyond, but use to play pen and paper is probably okay sticking to pen and paper. That is a very small number of people who played pen and paper necromancer or wanted to play a just wanted to play necromancer in 2014 and now are switching to dndbeyond for 2024 that only own physical books for 2014. I’m pretty sure they would have no problem continuing to play pen and paper. Or honestly they could add the 2014 necromancer to dndbeyond homebrew. Its features aren’t even that hard to replicate. It would take them less than 30 mins to do it.
I took a shot at updating Necromancer for 2024. I don’t have anyone playing one right now, so none of this is tested nor will it get tested anytime soon.
Necromancy Savant
Choose two Wizard spells from the Necromancy school, each of which must be no higher than level 2, and add them to your spellbook for free.
In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Wizard spell from the Necromancy school to your spellbook for free. The chosen spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots
Undead Familiar
You add the Find Familiar Spell to your spellbook if you don’t already have it. If you already have it you add another wizard spell of a level you can cast to your spell book. When you cast the Find Familiar, you choose one of the normal forms for your familiar or one of the following special forms: Crawling Claw, Skeleton, or Zombie. No matter what form you choose you may choose to make your familiar creature type Undead. Additionally if your familiar is Undead it gains temporary HP equal to your wizard level. lf your Undead Familiar is within 100ft when you cast a Necromancy spell you may choose to have the spell originate from the familiar’s space as if it cast the spell.
Undead Thralls
At 6th level, you add the summon undead spell to your spellbook if it is not there already. If it is already there you add another wizard spell you can cast. When you cast summon undead you can summon two undead spirits instead of one. You decide if they are the same type or different types found in the undead spirit stat block. Both spirits act right after your turn, and each are summoned with half their maximum hit points.
Additionally whenever you create or summon an undead creature using a necromancy spell, it has additional benefits:
The creature’s hit point maximum is increased by an amount equal to your wizard level.
If the creature is within 100ft of you it can be used as if it were your Undead Familiar for the purpose of seeing and hearing through its senses, and a casting necromancy spell originating from its space.
Inured to Undeath
Beginning at 10th level, you have resistance to necrotic damage, and your hit point maximum can’t be reduced. When you prepare an evocation spell or illusion spell you can decide to alter it to instead prepare a school of necromancy version of that spell. Any damage becomes necrotic for the spell, and all other effects of the spell are unchanged. You may choose to prepare both the normal version of the spell and the necromancy version, each would count against the number of spells you can prepare. You can not copy the altered necromancy version of a spell onto a scroll or into a spellbook.
Undead Mastery
Starting at 14th level, Necromancy spells you cast ignore resistance to necrotic damage. You also gain the ability to temporarily turn any corpse into an undead creature under your control. As a magic action you touch the remains of a creature that was not a construct and expend a spell slot. The creature rises as an undead version with 4 times the level of spell slot expended hit points. It uses its normal stat block, but it can't speak, use any spells, legendary actions, or legendary resistances and its hit point maximum is equal to 4 times the spell level used to animate it. If the creature is reduced to 0 hit points, one hour passes, or you use this ability again the magic wears off and this ability can’t be used on the same remains for 24 hours.
Starting at 14th level, Necromancy spells you cast ignore resistance to necrotic damage. You also gain the ability to temporarily turn any corpse into an undead creature under your control. As a magic action you touch the remains of a creature that was not a construct and expend a spell slot. The creature rises as an undead version with 4 times the level of spell slot expended hit points. It uses its normal stat block, but it can't speak, use any spells, legendary actions, or legendary resistances and its hit point maximum is equal to 4 times the spell level used to animate it. If the creature is reduced to 0 hit points, one hour passes, or you use this ability again the magic wears off and this ability can’t be used on the same remains for 24 hours.
This seems exploitable and overly situational. I think there needs to be a cr limit on it.
I think it would work well with a dedicated stat block with some level-scaled elements, maybe with a few different versions based on the type of the original creature. Like the way the new Beast Master Ranger’s animal buddy works.
they didnt cut anything, all previous subclasses that have not been rewritten are still viable. that's what backwards compatible means, subclasses like Necromancy for wizards ans Swashbuckler for rogue are still 100% fair game, until they are rewritten for 2024
wizard "Features" for 2014 vs 2024 do not line up. Feats are different too. my understanding the online play and maps are 2024 only. the whole point is there was NO REASON to not have all 8 wizard subclasses in 2024 to begin with. all the School Spells are there.
the PHB for 2024 is written very nicely. it flows smoothly in the making of a character. but then the Subclasses issue.
wizard "Features" for 2014 vs 2024 do not line up. Feats are different too. my understanding the online play and maps are 2024 only. the whole point is there was NO REASON to not have all 8 wizard subclasses in 2024 to begin with. all the School Spells are there.
the PHB for 2024 is written very nicely. it flows smoothly in the making of a character. but then the Subclasses issue.
For the record, all the online tools can be used with both 2014 and 2024 characters. Nothing is "2024 only". All the old subclasses that haven't been updated are still accessible for use with the 2024 classes.
wizard "Features" for 2014 vs 2024 do not line up. Feats are different too. my understanding the online play and maps are 2024 only. the whole point is there was NO REASON to not have all 8 wizard subclasses in 2024 to begin with. all the School Spells are there.
the PHB for 2024 is written very nicely. it flows smoothly in the making of a character. but then the Subclasses issue.
It felt pretty annoying to me that the wizard got to essentially choose between 8 different playstyles, while I, as a druid, was limited to frontline, or really bad spellcasting.
only if you buy the older 2014 PHB. which for new people would be another $29 for the digital. there was no reason for this. PHB 2024 could had been prefect, but it drop the ball big time. these forum posting shows that the players wanted all the subclasses in 2024 at the start. i don't want to get off subject but we only have so much money to spend. i believe the lack of subclasses (necromancer) in the 2024 greatly HURT D&D overall and lead to players leaving D&D to play other games. they should just made it a complete separate edition and support both 5 and 6 at the same time. everyone would been happy. long live Necromancers.
I took a shot at updating Necromancer for 2024. I don’t have anyone playing one right now, so none of this is tested nor will it get tested anytime soon.
Necromancy Savant
Choose two Wizard spells from the Necromancy school, each of which must be no higher than level 2, and add them to your spellbook for free.
In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Wizard spell from the Necromancy school to your spellbook for free. The chosen spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots
LOVE it
Undead Familiar
You add the Find Familiar Spell to your spellbook if you don’t already have it. If you already have it you add another wizard spell of a level you can cast to your spell book. When you cast the Find Familiar, you choose one of the normal forms for your familiar or one of the following special forms: Crawling Claw, Skeleton, or Zombie. No matter what form you choose you may choose to make your familiar creature type Undead. Additionally if your familiar is Undead it gains temporary HP equal to your wizard level. lf your Undead Familiar is within 100ft when you cast a Necromancy spell you may choose to have the spell originate from the familiar’s space as if it cast the spell.
Could we get a shadow as an option?
Undead Thralls
At 6th level, you add the summon undead spell to your spellbook if it is not there already. If it is already there you add another wizard spell you can cast. When you cast summon undead you can summon two undead spirits instead of one. You decide if they are the same type or different types found in the undead spirit stat block. Both spirits act right after your turn, and each are summoned with half their maximum hit points.
Additionally whenever you create or summon an undead creature using a necromancy spell, it has additional benefits:
The creature’s hit point maximum is increased by an amount equal to your wizard level.
If the creature is within 100ft of you it can be used as if it were your Undead Familiar for the purpose of seeing and hearing through its senses, and a casting necromancy spell originating from its space.
I do not care for losing the damage buff. I get mass minions is a combat drag but you are really nerfing damage output.
Inured to Undeath
Beginning at 10th level, you have resistance to necrotic damage, and your hit point maximum can’t be reduced. When you prepare an evocation spell or illusion spell you can decide to alter it to instead prepare a school of necromancy version of that spell. Any damage becomes necrotic for the spell, and all other effects of the spell are unchanged. You may choose to prepare both the normal version of the spell and the necromancy version, each would count against the number of spells you can prepare. You can not copy the altered necromancy version of a spell onto a scroll or into a spellbook.
I see the idea, would you be willing to go the step further make immunity treated as resistance as well?
Undead Mastery
Starting at 14th level, Necromancy spells you cast ignore resistance to necrotic damage. You also gain the ability to temporarily turn any corpse into an undead creature under your control. As a magic action you touch the remains of a creature that was not a construct and expend a spell slot. The creature rises as an undead version with 4 times the level of spell slot expended hit points. It uses its normal stat block, but it can't speak, use any spells, legendary actions, or legendary resistances and its hit point maximum is equal to 4 times the spell level used to animate it. If the creature is reduced to 0 hit points, one hour passes, or you use this ability again the magic wears off and this ability can’t be used on the same remains for 24 hours.
You wish to steal our awesome capstone? This is terrible compared to a chance of straight up stealing a powerful undead for an hour.
Other thoughts.
Time, life essense and disease should be a resource necromancer can use
Example something like reskined bag of beans that could give the necromancer a shot at permanent stat buffs. If I am not allowed a hoard why not allow augmentation of myself with dead monster parts.
I was thinking why the Necromancer hasn’t popped up in any UAs yet and I have a theory. What if WotC is planning a book for running “evil” campaigns and they’re waiting for that reintroduce not only Necro, but the Death Cleric and Oathbreaker. Pipe dream, maybe, but still fun to think about
wizard "Features" for 2014 vs 2024 do not line up. Feats are different too. my understanding the online play and maps are 2024 only. the whole point is there was NO REASON to not have all 8 wizard subclasses in 2024 to begin with. all the School Spells are there.
the PHB for 2024 is written very nicely. it flows smoothly in the making of a character. but then the Subclasses issue.
It felt pretty annoying to me that the wizard got to essentially choose between 8 different playstyles, while I, as a druid, was limited to frontline, or really bad spellcasting.
Sorry to say and without any intention of sounding insulting. This kind of thinking is what leads hasbro into making this kind of decisions. You forget the fantasy behind it, the lore. Wizards had 8 schools in d&d that was how it was always the case, also I find it annoying the lack of Generalist wizard as an option, because why not, it is part of the lore. Druids on the other hand were always way way cooler than wizards in so many ways. Subclasses are just sauce for them. Always speaking on the lore and concept behind the class. Mechanics aside. The problem with 5e is exactly that, looking at everything like it is a video game, while we are talking about TTRPGs...
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Professional TTRPG Game Master. Forged in '79. Rolling the bones since 1992!
wizard "Features" for 2014 vs 2024 do not line up. Feats are different too. my understanding the online play and maps are 2024 only. the whole point is there was NO REASON to not have all 8 wizard subclasses in 2024 to begin with. all the School Spells are there.
the PHB for 2024 is written very nicely. it flows smoothly in the making of a character. but then the Subclasses issue.
It felt pretty annoying to me that the wizard got to essentially choose between 8 different playstyles, while I, as a druid, was limited to frontline, or really bad spellcasting.
Sorry to say and without any intention of sounding insulting. This kind of thinking is what leads hasbro into making this kind of decisions. You forget the fantasy behind it, the lore. Wizards had 8 schools in d&d that was how it was always the case, also I find it annoying the lack of Generalist wizard as an option, because why not, it is part of the lore. Druids on the other hand were always way way cooler than wizards in so many ways. Subclasses are just sauce for them. Always speaking on the lore and concept behind the class. Mechanics aside. The problem with 5e is exactly that, looking at everything like it is a video game, while we are talking about TTRPGs...
That in no way disproves my point. A first time player will have no knowledge of previous editions or so called "lore" about druids and wizards. Also, I kind of feel like you have it backwards. Druid circles were a big choice, given that it was a binary one, whereas wizards just got relatively minor buffs related to the school they chose. Additionally, while we may share the opinion that druids are cooler than wizards, many don't, and IIRC druids have been the least popular class in the core rules. Finally, I fail to see how wanting more options for character building is based on a video game mindset, especially because I haven't played very many rpgs.
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the 2104 Necromance ris still viable and comp[atible, If a subclass/spell/feature etc has not been REWRITTNE it is still compatible and CORE, for all intents and purposes. 2014 Necromance ris still viable, Swashbuckle rofr Thieve sis sitll viable, the wer enot taken away, they jsut havent given them the 2024 treatment yet.
problem is, you have to then also PURCHASE the 2014 PHB. so what spells will you use? legacy or 2024 versions? kind of freaken pointless if you wanted to do just 2024 version of the game.
Anyone who is new to DND and starting with 2024 isn’t going to be worried about the necromancer subclass. If the first book they purchased was PHB2024 then they aren’t going to purchase 2014 for the old subclasses. The lack of a necromancer update is a problem for players making the transition. But it’s not a problem because old subclass still works with the 2024 wizard. You use the newest spells.
if you only have the 2024 PHB in Beyond then you are not going to have access to the legacy schools.
Anyone who is just now switching to dndbeyond, but use to play pen and paper is probably okay sticking to pen and paper. That is a very small number of people who played pen and paper necromancer or wanted to play a just wanted to play necromancer in 2014 and now are switching to dndbeyond for 2024 that only own physical books for 2014. I’m pretty sure they would have no problem continuing to play pen and paper. Or honestly they could add the 2014 necromancer to dndbeyond homebrew. Its features aren’t even that hard to replicate. It would take them less than 30 mins to do it.
just wait until they dont allow any new 2014 digital purchases of PHB
I took a shot at updating Necromancer for 2024. I don’t have anyone playing one right now, so none of this is tested nor will it get tested anytime soon.
Necromancy Savant
Choose two Wizard spells from the Necromancy school, each of which must be no higher than level 2, and add them to your spellbook for free.
In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Wizard spell from the Necromancy school to your spellbook for free. The chosen spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots
Undead Familiar
You add the Find Familiar Spell to your spellbook if you don’t already have it. If you already have it you add another wizard spell of a level you can cast to your spell book. When you cast the Find Familiar, you choose one of the normal forms for your familiar or one of the following special forms: Crawling Claw, Skeleton, or Zombie. No matter what form you choose you may choose to make your familiar creature type Undead. Additionally if your familiar is Undead it gains temporary HP equal to your wizard level. lf your Undead Familiar is within 100ft when you cast a Necromancy spell you may choose to have the spell originate from the familiar’s space as if it cast the spell.
Undead Thralls
At 6th level, you add the summon undead spell to your spellbook if it is not there already. If it is already there you add another wizard spell you can cast. When you cast summon undead you can summon two undead spirits instead of one. You decide if they are the same type or different types found in the undead spirit stat block. Both spirits act right after your turn, and each are summoned with half their maximum hit points.
Additionally whenever you create or summon an undead creature using a necromancy spell, it has additional benefits:
Inured to Undeath
Beginning at 10th level, you have resistance to necrotic damage, and your hit point maximum can’t be reduced. When you prepare an evocation spell or illusion spell you can decide to alter it to instead prepare a school of necromancy version of that spell. Any damage becomes necrotic for the spell, and all other effects of the spell are unchanged. You may choose to prepare both the normal version of the spell and the necromancy version, each would count against the number of spells you can prepare. You can not copy the altered necromancy version of a spell onto a scroll or into a spellbook.
Undead Mastery
Starting at 14th level, Necromancy spells you cast ignore resistance to necrotic damage. You also gain the ability to temporarily turn any corpse into an undead creature under your control. As a magic action you touch the remains of a creature that was not a construct and expend a spell slot. The creature rises as an undead version with 4 times the level of spell slot expended hit points. It uses its normal stat block, but it can't speak, use any spells, legendary actions, or legendary resistances and its hit point maximum is equal to 4 times the spell level used to animate it. If the creature is reduced to 0 hit points, one hour passes, or you use this ability again the magic wears off and this ability can’t be used on the same remains for 24 hours.
Of course, I company will refuse to let people pay them!
This seems exploitable and overly situational. I think there needs to be a cr limit on it.
I think it would work well with a dedicated stat block with some level-scaled elements, maybe with a few different versions based on the type of the original creature. Like the way the new Beast Master Ranger’s animal buddy works.
pronouns: he/she/they
they didnt cut anything, all previous subclasses that have not been rewritten are still viable. that's what backwards compatible means, subclasses like Necromancy for wizards ans Swashbuckler for rogue are still 100% fair game, until they are rewritten for 2024
wizard "Features" for 2014 vs 2024 do not line up. Feats are different too. my understanding the online play and maps are 2024 only. the whole point is there was NO REASON to not have all 8 wizard subclasses in 2024 to begin with. all the School Spells are there.
the PHB for 2024 is written very nicely. it flows smoothly in the making of a character. but then the Subclasses issue.
For the record, all the online tools can be used with both 2014 and 2024 characters. Nothing is "2024 only". All the old subclasses that haven't been updated are still accessible for use with the 2024 classes.
pronouns: he/she/they
It felt pretty annoying to me that the wizard got to essentially choose between 8 different playstyles, while I, as a druid, was limited to frontline, or really bad spellcasting.
only if you buy the older 2014 PHB. which for new people would be another $29 for the digital. there was no reason for this. PHB 2024 could had been prefect, but it drop the ball big time. these forum posting shows that the players wanted all the subclasses in 2024 at the start. i don't want to get off subject but we only have so much money to spend. i believe the lack of subclasses (necromancer) in the 2024 greatly HURT D&D overall and lead to players leaving D&D to play other games. they should just made it a complete separate edition and support both 5 and 6 at the same time. everyone would been happy. long live Necromancers.
druids i believe was originally a subclass off of a cleric. but yeah, there should been some subclasses of schools for the various classes.
Other thoughts.
Time, life essense and disease should be a resource necromancer can use
Example something like reskined bag of beans that could give the necromancer a shot at permanent stat buffs. If I am not allowed a hoard why not allow augmentation of myself with dead monster parts.
I was thinking why the Necromancer hasn’t popped up in any UAs yet and I have a theory. What if WotC is planning a book for running “evil” campaigns and they’re waiting for that reintroduce not only Necro, but the Death Cleric and Oathbreaker. Pipe dream, maybe, but still fun to think about
Sorry to say and without any intention of sounding insulting. This kind of thinking is what leads hasbro into making this kind of decisions. You forget the fantasy behind it, the lore. Wizards had 8 schools in d&d that was how it was always the case, also I find it annoying the lack of Generalist wizard as an option, because why not, it is part of the lore. Druids on the other hand were always way way cooler than wizards in so many ways. Subclasses are just sauce for them. Always speaking on the lore and concept behind the class. Mechanics aside. The problem with 5e is exactly that, looking at everything like it is a video game, while we are talking about TTRPGs...
Professional TTRPG Game Master.
Forged in '79. Rolling the bones since 1992!
That in no way disproves my point. A first time player will have no knowledge of previous editions or so called "lore" about druids and wizards. Also, I kind of feel like you have it backwards. Druid circles were a big choice, given that it was a binary one, whereas wizards just got relatively minor buffs related to the school they chose. Additionally, while we may share the opinion that druids are cooler than wizards, many don't, and IIRC druids have been the least popular class in the core rules. Finally, I fail to see how wanting more options for character building is based on a video game mindset, especially because I haven't played very many rpgs.