this is really just my opinion, but, necromancers should have their own class, they've been stuck as a subclass of wizards for a while now, and they didn't even get a subclass in the new handbook (or, so I'm told, I don't have either handbook :\). they're different enough to have their own class, if sorcerers got to be their own class than necromancers should.
an easy way to make a necromancer class: base it off the wizard, but make it more unique, give it a lower hit die, like a d4, but give it powerful abilities, similar to the warlock, plus REANIMATION AND DARK MAGIC!!!!! make em creepy too
necromancers are awesome, they deserve their own class
honestly 5e should have a few more classes in general, like a fully martial tank who still has armor, or more martial classes in general
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Hello dearest adventurers! I am the Confused Introvert, i dont know too much about D&D, but im the king of oddly specific and almost useless homebrew cantraps/low level spells, and am currently working on a setting called "Illogical Wizardry" where all of my useless and somewhat absurd spells are implemented to replace the good and known ones (mage hand, fireball, vicious mockery, etc)
I kind of agree. I think it should have some better support for being an undead puppetmaster than what Wizard provides by itself.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I'm kind of on the other side. The Necromancer is probably one of the least played subclasses in conventional good based parties right now and making it a whole class would give them more weight than nessessary. Also that would mean it needs different subclasses and after "guy who summons Zombies" and "guy who doesn't but shoots dark energy stuff" there doesn't seem much design room there.
subclasses are always weird, I came up with a dexterity and melee focused subclass for my WIP necromancer class, and focusing less on the magic they use, but more on inherent abilities could be neat, if it were to come out in its own book or something (kind of like the artificer did) it would only really need a few subclasses.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hello dearest adventurers! I am the Confused Introvert, i dont know too much about D&D, but im the king of oddly specific and almost useless homebrew cantraps/low level spells, and am currently working on a setting called "Illogical Wizardry" where all of my useless and somewhat absurd spells are implemented to replace the good and known ones (mage hand, fireball, vicious mockery, etc)
Hello dearest adventurers! I am the Confused Introvert, i dont know too much about D&D, but im the king of oddly specific and almost useless homebrew cantraps/low level spells, and am currently working on a setting called "Illogical Wizardry" where all of my useless and somewhat absurd spells are implemented to replace the good and known ones (mage hand, fireball, vicious mockery, etc)
yeah, it deserves its own class, necromancers are cool!
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Hello dearest adventurers! I am the Confused Introvert, i dont know too much about D&D, but im the king of oddly specific and almost useless homebrew cantraps/low level spells, and am currently working on a setting called "Illogical Wizardry" where all of my useless and somewhat absurd spells are implemented to replace the good and known ones (mage hand, fireball, vicious mockery, etc)
It sounds more like you'd need more subclasses for other classes that have a necrotic focus. A Dex and/or str focused subclass - sounds like a fighter with some necromancy would fit better. "Inherent Abilities"? That's not a Wizard of Necromancy. That's a Sorcerer - although I don't get why you say that wouldn't be magic - does your Necromancer summon undead thralls without magic?
There’s also a necessary design limit on summoning undead since a random player (not you necessarily) could become a huge time hog resolving their action each round.
I think my biggest question remains unanswered. Yes, necromancers are cool af. But “necromancer” also means an awful lot of different things to different people. For example
1.) They could be a Sorcerer “lich in the making” half-undead sort of thing casting dark curses and black magic
2.) They could be a scholarly wizard, perhaps inspired by van Helsing who doesn’t create undead, but is an expert in using his knowledge to fight them
3.) They could be an artificer like Dr. Frankenstein who builds things and minions using vim and lightning as the motivating force (imagine an undead repeating crossbow that loads itself or watch the movie Frankenstein’s Army for an exceptionally dark take).
4.) They could be cultist warlocks who focus on cursing those adventurers who violet the sanctity of their master’s tomb. One might become an adventurer (and join the PC’s party) to track down an artifact stolen from their master’s tomb.
5.) They could be death clerics worshipping forbidden gods. Those gods might have ambiguous alignments depending on who tells the story.
I think all of those ideas are cool, but they can’t all be done with the same class. They need more design space than a class with various subclasses can even give.
I’m also not a fan of making it a class. But that also begs the question of what its subclasses would be? How many different kinds of necromancer are there, really. I could see an arcane one and a divine one and maybe a Frankenstein-style one. But I think those work better for a wizard, cleric and artificer, respectively.
The various flavors of a Necromancer: Horde controller between Skeletons and zombies, The self transformation into lichdom(Dark Magic?), The Curse Masters (debuff Specialist).
I agree. However, a d4 hit die would suck, and it would die within the first 0.4 seconds of combat. It should be a mix between Warlock and Wizard, so maybe a d8 and Light armor proficiency. Definitely some Undead summoning subclasses, a Healing one, or one where you turn people undead. Plenty of options when making this class. Maybe WotC didn't add a Necromancer subclass in the 2024 PHB because they were making a Necromancer class. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking.
Sounds to me like a case of "let's give different classes necromancy themed subclasses" - might be a case for a book like Fizban's Treasury of Dragons - but with undead in it and some undead character options to go with it.
Counterpoint: Necromancers should be multiple subclasses. An Artificer necromancer, a warlock necromancer, and a sorcerer necromancer are very different.
No matter how cool Necromancers are in other fiction they should only be a subclass in Dnd. There isn’t enough meat on them bones to make a whole subclass based around Necromancy. 2014 Necromancy Wizard was poorly designed, but there were other Necromancy based subclasses for other classes. Warlock had 3, Hexblade, Undying, and Undead. Cleric had 2, Death, and Grave. Druid had one, Spores. Paladin had one, oathbreaker. Oddly the sorcerer didn’t really have one. Now in 5e 2024 none of these subclasses have been updated in the PHB. Maybe we will get a 5e 2024 Book of Vile Darkness with good necromancy focused subclasses in the future.
this is really just my opinion, but, necromancers should have their own class, they've been stuck as a subclass of wizards for a while now, and they didn't even get a subclass in the new handbook (or, so I'm told, I don't have either handbook :\). they're different enough to have their own class, if sorcerers got to be their own class than necromancers should.
an easy way to make a necromancer class: base it off the wizard, but make it more unique, give it a lower hit die, like a d4, but give it powerful abilities, similar to the warlock, plus REANIMATION AND DARK MAGIC!!!!! make em creepy too
necromancers are awesome, they deserve their own class
honestly 5e should have a few more classes in general, like a fully martial tank who still has armor, or more martial classes in general
Hello dearest adventurers! I am the Confused Introvert, i dont know too much about D&D, but im the king of oddly specific and almost useless homebrew cantraps/low level spells, and am currently working on a setting called "Illogical Wizardry" where all of my useless and somewhat absurd spells are implemented to replace the good and known ones (mage hand, fireball, vicious mockery, etc)
Why do you feel that it should be its own class?
I kind of agree. I think it should have some better support for being an undead puppetmaster than what Wizard provides by itself.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I'm kind of on the other side. The Necromancer is probably one of the least played subclasses in conventional good based parties right now and making it a whole class would give them more weight than nessessary. Also that would mean it needs different subclasses and after "guy who summons Zombies" and "guy who doesn't but shoots dark energy stuff" there doesn't seem much design room there.
subclasses are always weird, I came up with a dexterity and melee focused subclass for my WIP necromancer class, and focusing less on the magic they use, but more on inherent abilities could be neat, if it were to come out in its own book or something (kind of like the artificer did) it would only really need a few subclasses.
Hello dearest adventurers! I am the Confused Introvert, i dont know too much about D&D, but im the king of oddly specific and almost useless homebrew cantraps/low level spells, and am currently working on a setting called "Illogical Wizardry" where all of my useless and somewhat absurd spells are implemented to replace the good and known ones (mage hand, fireball, vicious mockery, etc)
bias.
necromancers are cool AF
Hello dearest adventurers! I am the Confused Introvert, i dont know too much about D&D, but im the king of oddly specific and almost useless homebrew cantraps/low level spells, and am currently working on a setting called "Illogical Wizardry" where all of my useless and somewhat absurd spells are implemented to replace the good and known ones (mage hand, fireball, vicious mockery, etc)
yeah, it deserves its own class, necromancers are cool!
Hello dearest adventurers! I am the Confused Introvert, i dont know too much about D&D, but im the king of oddly specific and almost useless homebrew cantraps/low level spells, and am currently working on a setting called "Illogical Wizardry" where all of my useless and somewhat absurd spells are implemented to replace the good and known ones (mage hand, fireball, vicious mockery, etc)
It sounds more like you'd need more subclasses for other classes that have a necrotic focus. A Dex and/or str focused subclass - sounds like a fighter with some necromancy would fit better. "Inherent Abilities"? That's not a Wizard of Necromancy. That's a Sorcerer - although I don't get why you say that wouldn't be magic - does your Necromancer summon undead thralls without magic?
There’s also a necessary design limit on summoning undead since a random player (not you necessarily) could become a huge time hog resolving their action each round.
I think my biggest question remains unanswered. Yes, necromancers are cool af. But “necromancer” also means an awful lot of different things to different people. For example
1.) They could be a Sorcerer “lich in the making” half-undead sort of thing casting dark curses and black magic
2.) They could be a scholarly wizard, perhaps inspired by van Helsing who doesn’t create undead, but is an expert in using his knowledge to fight them
3.) They could be an artificer like Dr. Frankenstein who builds things and minions using vim and lightning as the motivating force (imagine an undead repeating crossbow that loads itself or watch the movie Frankenstein’s Army for an exceptionally dark take).
4.) They could be cultist warlocks who focus on cursing those adventurers who violet the sanctity of their master’s tomb. One might become an adventurer (and join the PC’s party) to track down an artifact stolen from their master’s tomb.
5.) They could be death clerics worshipping forbidden gods. Those gods might have ambiguous alignments depending on who tells the story.
I think all of those ideas are cool, but they can’t all be done with the same class. They need more design space than a class with various subclasses can even give.
I’m also not a fan of making it a class. But that also begs the question of what its subclasses would be? How many different kinds of necromancer are there, really. I could see an arcane one and a divine one and maybe a Frankenstein-style one. But I think those work better for a wizard, cleric and artificer, respectively.
The various flavors of a Necromancer: Horde controller between Skeletons and zombies, The self transformation into lichdom(Dark Magic?), The Curse Masters (debuff Specialist).
I agree. However, a d4 hit die would suck, and it would die within the first 0.4 seconds of combat. It should be a mix between Warlock and Wizard, so maybe a d8 and Light armor proficiency. Definitely some Undead summoning subclasses, a Healing one, or one where you turn people undead. Plenty of options when making this class. Maybe WotC didn't add a Necromancer subclass in the 2024 PHB because they were making a Necromancer class. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking.
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Sounds to me like a case of "let's give different classes necromancy themed subclasses" - might be a case for a book like Fizban's Treasury of Dragons - but with undead in it and some undead character options to go with it.
Counterpoint: Necromancers should be multiple subclasses. An Artificer necromancer, a warlock necromancer, and a sorcerer necromancer are very different.
I too miss the dread necromancer from 3.5. which was everything you said minus the hit dice and sorc instead of wizard.
No matter how cool Necromancers are in other fiction they should only be a subclass in Dnd. There isn’t enough meat on them bones to make a whole subclass based around Necromancy. 2014 Necromancy Wizard was poorly designed, but there were other Necromancy based subclasses for other classes. Warlock had 3, Hexblade, Undying, and Undead. Cleric had 2, Death, and Grave. Druid had one, Spores. Paladin had one, oathbreaker. Oddly the sorcerer didn’t really have one. Now in 5e 2024 none of these subclasses have been updated in the PHB. Maybe we will get a 5e 2024 Book of Vile Darkness with good necromancy focused subclasses in the future.
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