I think any wizard will win anytime it has more than 150 total hp. I think a specialized warlock can win against any wizard with less than 150 hp. I think the average wizard will win against the average warlock.
I think any wizard will win anytime it has more than 150 total hp. I think a specialized warlock can win against any wizard with less than 150 hp. I think the average wizard will win against the average warlock.
Eh, Abjuration Wizard will win with less than 150 hp.
Chronurgist can probably win no matter the hp it has. Same with Diviner, if it has some low portent rolls.
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I think any wizard will win anytime it has more than 150 total hp. I think a specialized warlock can win against any wizard with less than 150 hp. I think the average wizard will win against the average warlock.
I second this. And I maintain, divination wizard just wouldn’t lose. The ability to portent itself to go first and outright end it within 6 seconds. Is just too problematic for a warlock.
Abjuration Wizard has almost as good (if not better) abilities: Arcane Ward: +45 hp, Spell Resistance: 1/2 damage from spells and advantage on saving throws against spells.
I think I've become confused after this super long thread and I can't remember why I still thought the warlock wins vs low-hp wizards. I don't actually think that's right. I just think wizard wins.
Any strategy involving hurl through hell is out the window because the wizard can just true polymorph into a fiend or something immune to psychic damage while being hurled.
I think I've become confused after this super long thread and I can't remember why I still thought the warlock wins vs low-hp wizards. I don't actually think that's right. I just think wizard wins.
Any strategy involving hurl through hell is out the window because the wizard can just true polymorph into a fiend or something immune to psychic damage while being hurled.
A lot of who wins comes down to initiative. Not all of it, but a lot. It is not impossible for the warlock to win on the first turn, just very unlikely.
Wizard wins 9/10 times, at least.
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A lot of who wins comes down to initiative. Not all of it, but a lot. It is not impossible for the warlock to win on the first turn, just very unlikely.
Wizard wins 9/10 times, at least.
I second this
everyone knows a well built sorcadin kills all so why are you arguing
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
A lot of who wins comes down to initiative. Not all of it, but a lot. It is not impossible for the warlock to win on the first turn, just very unlikely.
Wizard wins 9/10 times, at least.
I second this
everyone knows a well built sorcadin kills all so why are you arguing
Because this is 20th level Warlock, no multiclassing allowed.
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A lot of who wins comes down to initiative. Not all of it, but a lot. It is not impossible for the warlock to win on the first turn, just very unlikely.
Wizard wins 9/10 times, at least.
I second this
everyone knows a well built sorcadin kills all so why are you arguing
Because this is 20th level Warlock, no multiclassing allowed.
it was a joke, chill
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
A lot of who wins comes down to initiative. Not all of it, but a lot. It is not impossible for the warlock to win on the first turn, just very unlikely.
Wizard wins 9/10 times, at least.
I second this
everyone knows a well built sorcadin kills all so why are you arguing
Because this is 20th level Warlock, no multiclassing allowed.
it was a joke, chill
(Sorry if I mistook a joke for a real comment in a thread with no sign of it being a joke.)
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Chronurgist goes first and decides the warlock becomes a trinket or a drooling flesh sack with 1 Int. It's not even a question. The wizard can even use their 15 in dex and leave Int at whatever they want if they so choose and they still win because they have minimum +5 higher initiative and can force the warlock to fail their save round one. Even the almighty sorcadin is child's play to the chronurgist.
warlock could win though - finger of death followed by a power word kill and backed up by counterspell would pretty much guarantee victory for anyone with this type of combo right? You just need to specialise in something. a true polymorph from either side could shake things up - if it works then the aster wins and if it fails then the caster wastes a round so probably loses. A wizard tactic could be to use silence if the fight is in an enclosed space - useless on open ground. if they have ice knife then that fight becomes hopelessly unfair. all in all the wizard has more cards up his sleeve thanks to their versatility (invulnerability makes life impossible for the warlock for example)
Chronurgist goes first and decides the warlock becomes a trinket or a drooling flesh sack with 1 Int. It's not even a question. The wizard can even use their 15 in dex and leave Int at whatever they want if they so choose and they still win because they have minimum +5 higher initiative and can force the warlock to fail their save round one. Even the almighty sorcadin is child's play to the chronurgist.
As written, I don't think either Chronal Shift or Convergent Future can be used on initiative since there is no success or failure on initiative. This means that even if the chronurgist gets a +5 in initiative, that's not statistically better on average than the +5.5 a fiend warlock can get with Dark One's Own Luck. It's more likely that the warlock will go first, but that doesn't save the warlock if the warlock can't capitalize on that advantage.
warlock could win though - finger of death followed by a power word kill and backed up by counterspell would pretty much guarantee victory for anyone with this type of combo right? You just need to specialise in something. a true polymorph from either side could shake things up - if it works then the aster wins and if it fails then the caster wastes a round so probably loses. A wizard tactic could be to use silence if the fight is in an enclosed space - useless on open ground. if they have ice knife then that fight becomes hopelessly unfair. all in all the wizard has more cards up his sleeve thanks to their versatility (invulnerability makes life impossible for the warlock for example)
Any winning warlock strategy has to involve finishing the fight in one turn. No one (including me) has been able to present a way to end the fight on the warlock's first turn and the wizard can just cast feeblemind on his first turn. Even without divination or chronurgy, the warlock is really unlikely to pass a DC 19 intelligence save.
P.S. silence isn't a wizard spell. I made that mistake recently too.
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let's just put it this way...
It doesn't really matter who would win, just pick the one that's right for you.
And druids are really the supreme spellcasters.
Cult of Sedge
Rangers are the best, and have always been the best
I love Homebrew
I hate paladins
Warrior Bovine
Um... how are Druids better spellcasters than Wizards?
There is no dawn after eternal night.
Homebrew: Magic items, Subclasses
they're not, i just want to stop this whole argument, and druids are fun to play
Cult of Sedge
Rangers are the best, and have always been the best
I love Homebrew
I hate paladins
Warrior Bovine
Eh, maybe Druid lvl. 20 vs. Wizard 20 xp?
There is no dawn after eternal night.
Homebrew: Magic items, Subclasses
I think it's fairly obvious the Druid would win, as moon druids are practically immortal, but that's a discussion for a new thread.
So, pretty much all of us agrees that Warlocks can win, but the Wizard will win most of the time, right?
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I think any wizard will win anytime it has more than 150 total hp. I think a specialized warlock can win against any wizard with less than 150 hp. I think the average wizard will win against the average warlock.
Eh, Abjuration Wizard will win with less than 150 hp.
Chronurgist can probably win no matter the hp it has. Same with Diviner, if it has some low portent rolls.
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I second this. And I maintain, divination wizard just wouldn’t lose. The ability to portent itself to go first and outright end it within 6 seconds. Is just too problematic for a warlock.
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Abjuration Wizard has almost as good (if not better) abilities: Arcane Ward: +45 hp, Spell Resistance: 1/2 damage from spells and advantage on saving throws against spells.
There is no dawn after eternal night.
Homebrew: Magic items, Subclasses
I think I've become confused after this super long thread and I can't remember why I still thought the warlock wins vs low-hp wizards. I don't actually think that's right. I just think wizard wins.
Any strategy involving hurl through hell is out the window because the wizard can just true polymorph into a fiend or something immune to psychic damage while being hurled.
Warlocks can get power word kill through Mystic Arcanum
Most Wizards would have invulnerability prepared instead true polymorph. Either way he takes no damage.
There is no dawn after eternal night.
Homebrew: Magic items, Subclasses
A lot of who wins comes down to initiative. Not all of it, but a lot. It is not impossible for the warlock to win on the first turn, just very unlikely.
Wizard wins 9/10 times, at least.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I second this
everyone knows a well built sorcadin kills all so why are you arguing
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Because this is 20th level Warlock, no multiclassing allowed.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Any well built character could beat a badly built character.
There is no dawn after eternal night.
Homebrew: Magic items, Subclasses
it was a joke, chill
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
(Sorry if I mistook a joke for a real comment in a thread with no sign of it being a joke.)
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Chronurgist goes first and decides the warlock becomes a trinket or a drooling flesh sack with 1 Int. It's not even a question. The wizard can even use their 15 in dex and leave Int at whatever they want if they so choose and they still win because they have minimum +5 higher initiative and can force the warlock to fail their save round one. Even the almighty sorcadin is child's play to the chronurgist.
warlock could win though - finger of death followed by a power word kill and backed up by counterspell would pretty much guarantee victory for anyone with this type of combo right? You just need to specialise in something. a true polymorph from either side could shake things up - if it works then the aster wins and if it fails then the caster wastes a round so probably loses. A wizard tactic could be to use silence if the fight is in an enclosed space - useless on open ground. if they have ice knife then that fight becomes hopelessly unfair. all in all the wizard has more cards up his sleeve thanks to their versatility (invulnerability makes life impossible for the warlock for example)
Chilling kinda vibe.
As written, I don't think either Chronal Shift or Convergent Future can be used on initiative since there is no success or failure on initiative. This means that even if the chronurgist gets a +5 in initiative, that's not statistically better on average than the +5.5 a fiend warlock can get with Dark One's Own Luck. It's more likely that the warlock will go first, but that doesn't save the warlock if the warlock can't capitalize on that advantage.
Any winning warlock strategy has to involve finishing the fight in one turn. No one (including me) has been able to present a way to end the fight on the warlock's first turn and the wizard can just cast feeblemind on his first turn. Even without divination or chronurgy, the warlock is really unlikely to pass a DC 19 intelligence save.
P.S. silence isn't a wizard spell. I made that mistake recently too.