So I am playing my Tempest Cleric/Fathomless warlock. This is actually the girst cleric I have played. She is a 1st level warlock and the plan was to go to level 8 as a cleric (8 cleric/1 warlock) for the lightning damage boost on attacks, then pick up a few more warlock levels for invocations and then the campaign will end around 12 or so. She is mostly a front liner warcaster-Gish build in plate and shield.
I was reading the tempest spell list and came across destructive wave. This spell is a 5th level Paladin spell and I have never seen it in play, probably because you have to be very high level to get it as a Paladin and even when they do get it, Paladins often smite instead with their slots.
I am thinking this spell would be awesome with the Tempest channel divinity (and I would almost certainly use CD every time I cast it). 30 Lighting+17.5 radiant+knocked prone against all bad guys within 30 feet, party members unaffected! Save for half and no prone.
This seems awesome at 10th level (much less so when a Pally gets it at 17th with less damage).
Has anyone used it in play? Is it worth 2 invocations and another 1st level slot that recharges on a short rest?
Definitely worth it, the channel divinity max damage for a spell like that even if they don't fail it they will take max damage and if they do they have less of a momentum to go after you and your party. I tried using the channel divinity once and the max damage is certainly useful. But situations where you will expend a huge resource like that is rare but will shift combat to your direction to some extent. If you do not think its worth it then just take your pic of the two.
I had it on my tempest cleric and it was great when I used it. 30’ radius, 10d6 and no friendly fire, it’s fantastic. That said, I was also the party’s healer, so a lot of my 5th level slots went to mass cure wounds. Which is also a great spell. Actually, level 5 has lots of great stuff. Insect plague is good battlefield control, greater restoration can be a literal life saver. And solid spells for non-combat pillars, like scry, commune and legend lore.
3rd & 5th level are two of the juiced levels because they are meant to be benchmark levels. Cantrips through 2nd-level spells are “minor magics,” or as I like to call it, “the kids’ table.” That’s why racial spells and freebie cast Eldritch Invocations are all C—2nd-level spells. 3rd-level through 5th- is the “big kids’ table,” where the ⅓ & ½-casters and Pact Magic get to sit. And then you get to the “grown-ups’ table” from 6th- through 9th-levels for the full-casters and where Mystic Arcana sit.
Cantrips through 2nd-level spells are “minor magics,” or as I like to call it, “the kids’ table.”
Dunno if I want to sit at a kid's table where the little monsters are dishing out inflict wounds or thunderwave. 😂
While destructive wave is a great spell, it's worth keeping in mind that Destructive Wrath only works on the thunder half of the damage, so while maximising it to 30 is nice, the radiant damage is still average 17.5. Not bad at all, that's still 47.5 damage on average, up from 35, but it's not as big of a jump as a pure lightning or thunder damage spell could get, though it stacks up nicely thanks to the good radius with no friendly fire (unless you want to hurt your allies for some reason, I won't judge 😈).
The damage is basically the same as an upcast and maximised thunderwave (6d8 at 5th-level is 48 damage), which isn't usually that hard to position where you want, but has a different rider effect (10-foot push rather than prone). Which one is better in the moment will depend on a bunch of factors, as prone is good when allies can take advantage, and a 10-foot push is useful if there are environmental hazards, or your party has the ability to create some (e.g- a Druid with spike growth, warlock with hunger of hadar etc.). The main benefit of thunderwave vs. destructive wave is that you don't have to cast it at that precious 5th-level, you can cast at 4th and still do decent damage, or you can cast at a higher level to do more, since destructive wave gains no benefit from being upcast (as it's 5th-level only).
For fewer targets, or closely packed ones, call lightning will do more damage to each creature, especially if you can trigger it on an existing storm, as at 5th-level its 5d10 (50 maxed) normally, but 6d10 (60) in an existing storm. Good reason to have someone with control weather handy (bard with an anstruth harp maybe?). Of course it's only a 5-foot radius, so maybe four medium creatures maximum if they obligingly stand next to each other, but this also triggers your Thunderbolt Strike (push creatures 10-feet away when you deal lightning damage) and can be used over multiple rounds.
So yeah, it's a good spell but you've a fair few options when it comes to Destructive Wrath.
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Multiclass is always a balance between what you get with you main class and what you get with the dip.
While I agree with Iamsposta that 3rd level spells are a big step up I think other levels are more gradual. Tier 3 starts at level 11 which would imply 6th level spells should be a benchmark level. Slightly off topic but I am not convinced mass cure wounds is that much better than mass healing word, yes it does do a little more healing than mass healing word even when upcast but it takes an action, with mass healing word you can toll the dead, dodge or even call on divine intervention (if you get cleric 10)
Unless you are facing large numbers of mobs chain lightning will be a big step up on destructive wave 60% more damage and it does not need to be centred on you.so if you decide on 9 levels of cleric you then need to decide if you want to go even further.
That said, I was also the party’s healer, so a lot of my 5th level slots went to mass cure wounds. \
Well there is a reason this is my first cleric. I am trying to press upon the party that potions of healing are the "party's primary healer". I keep healing word and aid and will religiously use those to bring up any downed allies, but I don't see myself preparing a lot of healing for buffing beyond that. That is what hit dice and potions are fob
Unless you are facing large numbers of mobs chain lightning will be a big step up on destructive wave 60% more damage and it does not need to be centred on you.so if you decide on 9 levels of cleric you then need to decide if you want to go even further.
Chain Lighting is not a cleric spell and is not on the temepes list.
So I am playing my Tempest Cleric/Fathomless warlock. This is actually the girst cleric I have played. She is a 1st level warlock and the plan was to go to level 8 as a cleric (8 cleric/1 warlock) for the lightning damage boost on attacks, then pick up a few more warlock levels for invocations and then the campaign will end around 12 or so. She is mostly a front liner warcaster-Gish build in plate and shield.
I was reading the tempest spell list and came across destructive wave. This spell is a 5th level Paladin spell and I have never seen it in play, probably because you have to be very high level to get it as a Paladin and even when they do get it, Paladins often smite instead with their slots.
I am thinking this spell would be awesome with the Tempest channel divinity (and I would almost certainly use CD every time I cast it). 30 Lighting+17.5 radiant+knocked prone against all bad guys within 30 feet, party members unaffected! Save for half and no prone.
This seems awesome at 10th level (much less so when a Pally gets it at 17th with less damage).
Has anyone used it in play? Is it worth 2 invocations and another 1st level slot that recharges on a short rest?
Definitely worth it, the channel divinity max damage for a spell like that even if they don't fail it they will take max damage and if they do they have less of a momentum to go after you and your party. I tried using the channel divinity once and the max damage is certainly useful. But situations where you will expend a huge resource like that is rare but will shift combat to your direction to some extent. If you do not think its worth it then just take your pic of the two.
I had it on my tempest cleric and it was great when I used it. 30’ radius, 10d6 and no friendly fire, it’s fantastic.
That said, I was also the party’s healer, so a lot of my 5th level slots went to mass cure wounds. Which is also a great spell. Actually, level 5 has lots of great stuff. Insect plague is good battlefield control, greater restoration can be a literal life saver.
And solid spells for non-combat pillars, like scry, commune and legend lore.
3rd & 5th level are two of the juiced levels because they are meant to be benchmark levels. Cantrips through 2nd-level spells are “minor magics,” or as I like to call it, “the kids’ table.” That’s why racial spells and freebie cast Eldritch Invocations are all C—2nd-level spells. 3rd-level through 5th- is the “big kids’ table,” where the ⅓ & ½-casters and Pact Magic get to sit. And then you get to the “grown-ups’ table” from 6th- through 9th-levels for the full-casters and where Mystic Arcana sit.
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Dunno if I want to sit at a kid's table where the little monsters are dishing out inflict wounds or thunderwave. 😂
While destructive wave is a great spell, it's worth keeping in mind that Destructive Wrath only works on the thunder half of the damage, so while maximising it to 30 is nice, the radiant damage is still average 17.5. Not bad at all, that's still 47.5 damage on average, up from 35, but it's not as big of a jump as a pure lightning or thunder damage spell could get, though it stacks up nicely thanks to the good radius with no friendly fire (unless you want to hurt your allies for some reason, I won't judge 😈).
The damage is basically the same as an upcast and maximised thunderwave (6d8 at 5th-level is 48 damage), which isn't usually that hard to position where you want, but has a different rider effect (10-foot push rather than prone). Which one is better in the moment will depend on a bunch of factors, as prone is good when allies can take advantage, and a 10-foot push is useful if there are environmental hazards, or your party has the ability to create some (e.g- a Druid with spike growth, warlock with hunger of hadar etc.). The main benefit of thunderwave vs. destructive wave is that you don't have to cast it at that precious 5th-level, you can cast at 4th and still do decent damage, or you can cast at a higher level to do more, since destructive wave gains no benefit from being upcast (as it's 5th-level only).
For fewer targets, or closely packed ones, call lightning will do more damage to each creature, especially if you can trigger it on an existing storm, as at 5th-level its 5d10 (50 maxed) normally, but 6d10 (60) in an existing storm. Good reason to have someone with control weather handy (bard with an anstruth harp maybe?). Of course it's only a 5-foot radius, so maybe four medium creatures maximum if they obligingly stand next to each other, but this also triggers your Thunderbolt Strike (push creatures 10-feet away when you deal lightning damage) and can be used over multiple rounds.
So yeah, it's a good spell but you've a fair few options when it comes to Destructive Wrath.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Multiclass is always a balance between what you get with you main class and what you get with the dip.
While I agree with Iamsposta that 3rd level spells are a big step up I think other levels are more gradual. Tier 3 starts at level 11 which would imply 6th level spells should be a benchmark level. Slightly off topic but I am not convinced mass cure wounds is that much better than mass healing word, yes it does do a little more healing than mass healing word even when upcast but it takes an action, with mass healing word you can toll the dead, dodge or even call on divine intervention (if you get cleric 10)
Unless you are facing large numbers of mobs chain lightning will be a big step up on destructive wave 60% more damage and it does not need to be centred on you.so if you decide on 9 levels of cleric you then need to decide if you want to go even further.
Well there is a reason this is my first cleric. I am trying to press upon the party that potions of healing are the "party's primary healer". I keep healing word and aid and will religiously use those to bring up any downed allies, but I don't see myself preparing a lot of healing for buffing beyond that. That is what hit dice and potions are fob
Chain Lighting is not a cleric spell and is not on the temepes list.