so the sword coast adventurers guide provided two very neat cantrips, booming blade and green flame blade, two cantrips where as part of the casting you make an melee weapon attack, and after a few levels this melee attack deals more damage and i just think it might be neat to have such an cantrip for the cleric (or as an talent for mystics but i will not mess with that class for now), but the thing is i keep running into the fact that all cleric subclasses have ether potent cantrips or divine strike as an subclass feature, two features that might work to well with such an cantrip to produce an unwantedly high per round damage output.
So if you were to homebrew your own cantrip, and you were to make it fall in line with the power level of similar options, how would you go about such a thing? whould you make the damage scale less, only a d6 instead of an d8? what damage type would it be and what effect would it impose, to fit it within the idea of what an cleric should be? Should just such an cantrip never be put on the cleric spell list to begin with?
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
seems like a good option since it would not increase damage potency, but the big problem is that bards, pact of the tombe warlocks and people with the magic initiate feat all have access to cleric cantrips, so having a cantrip that depends on something you might not have is kind of bad design, so maybe instead something like it always has radiant damage as their damage type, but if you gain the divine strike feature it becomes that damage type
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
You could base it on character alignment, as other things do. Good=radiant, evil=necrotic, neutral=choose one of those, or just force. Or you could just call it magical slashing damage.
The game designers purposefully made the Sorcerer/Warlock/Wizard ranged spell attack cantrips better than the Cleric/Druid ranged spell attack cantrips. They purposefully gave the Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard nice melee attack cantrips in the SCAG, and did not give them to the Cleric or Druid. If you're going to give the Cleric or Druid a melee attack cantrip, it should be on par with the other Cleric and Druid ranged attack cantrips, instead of being on par with the Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard melee and ranged attack cantrips.
The game designers purposefully made the Sorcerer/Warlock/Wizard ranged spell attack cantrips better than the Cleric/Druid ranged spell attack cantrips. They purposefully gave the Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard nice melee attack cantrips in the SCAG, and did not give them to the Cleric or Druid. If you're going to give the Cleric or Druid a melee attack cantrip, it should be on par with the other Cleric and Druid ranged attack cantrips, instead of being on par with the Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard melee and ranged attack cantrips.
yeah obiously becuase if i just give them cantrips of the same power level as the scag and let them scale with divine strike their DPS might get out of hand a little too quickly
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I would go the other way. You are a cleric, not a Fighter - forget about extra damage, there are a ton of ways to do that in game already.
I would design a blade spell that does something INTERESTING. Think Fred Saberhagen Swords.
How about the following Cantrip:
"Parry and Riposte"
Cast as a reaction to someone attempting to hit you with a bladed weapon.
You attempt to
Make an attack with any finesse-able blade. Compare the adjusted dice rolls - the person that scored high does damage, the loser does nothing.
Though to be honest, that sounds more like a bard thing. But you get the idea - it's not just about damage.
Using your reaction when you're attacked to make the attack deal zero damage, and instead you deal damage to the attacker? That's not a cantrip, that's a levelled spell.
Yeah, you are probably right about this being too powerfull for a cantrip. (It as was off the cuff.) But you get the idea. I was trying to show how a blade spell does not have to be all about the damage.
How about a Cleric Cantrip where you make a melee attack with a weapon as part of casting the spell, and if your attack hits, the enemy gives off bright light for 5ft and dim light for another 5ft until the end of your next turn (and can't be invisible), and the next attack on that enemy before the end of your next turn has advantage on the attack roll.
How about a Cleric Cantrip where you make a melee attack with a weapon as part of casting the spell, and if your attack hits, the enemy gives off bright light for 5ft and dim light for another 5ft until the end of your next turn (and can't be invisible), and the next attack on that enemy before the end of your next turn has advantage on the attack roll.
Is that too powerful? Or too weak?
does not quite scale quite as well, but at the same time it is an nice effect, like a mix of brandind smite and faerie fire, i like it, it does not scale in damage and thus avoids the divine strike dilemma, it is rather useful and worth casting over other cantrips, this is exactly what i wanted, thank you
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
seems like a good option since it would not increase damage potency, but the big problem is that bards, pact of the tombe warlocks and people with the magic initiate feat all have access to cleric cantrips, so having a cantrip that depends on something you might not have is kind of bad design, so maybe instead something like it always has radiant damage as their damage type, but if you gain the divine strike feature it becomes that damage type
Don’t forget that the Class Feature Variants gives Paladins access to a Fighting Style that gives them two Cleric Cantrips too.
How about a Cleric Cantrip where you make a melee attack with a weapon as part of casting the spell, and if your attack hits, the enemy gives off bright light for 5ft and dim light for another 5ft until the end of your next turn (and can't be invisible), and the next attack on that enemy before the end of your next turn has advantage on the attack roll.
Is that too powerful? Or too weak?
does not quite scale quite as well, but at the same time it is an nice effect, like a mix of brandind smite and faerie fire, i like it, it does not scale in damage and thus avoids the divine strike dilemma, it is rather useful and worth casting over other cantrips, this is exactly what i wanted, thank you
I'm glad that I could help. It doubles down on the Cleric's role as support, and that's probably a good thing because many people choose Cleric because they enjoy playing a support character.
Arcana Cleric can already take the Sword Coast cantrips. Probably only one since you'd want a ranged Wizard cantrip as well. Green Flame Blade and Fire Bolt on a Wood Elf Cleric so you have proficiency in shortswords and can make a full dexterity build? You do get Potent Spellcasting at level 8, which adds your Wisdom modifier (+5 at this point) to all Cleric cantrip damage (and the two Wizard cantrips you take as an Arcana Cleric count as Cleric cantrips).
That does become quite nice damage accumulation, at level 8 doing D6+3 melee damage +D8+5 fire damage to your primary target, and D8+10 fire damage to the secondary target. Though of course you have to make sure there's another target within five feet, otherwise it'll carry over to a friendly model or even yourself.
Arcana Cleric can already take the Sword Coast cantrips. Probably only one since you'd want a ranged Wizard cantrip as well. Green Flame Blade and Fire Bolt on a Wood Elf Cleric so you have proficiency in shortswords and can make a full dexterity build? You do get Potent Spellcasting at level 8, which adds your Wisdom modifier (+5 at this point) to all Cleric cantrip damage (and the two Wizard cantrips you take as an Arcana Cleric count as Cleric cantrips).
That does become quite nice damage accumulation, at level 8 doing D6+3 melee damage +D8+5 fire damage to your primary target, and D8+10 fire damage to the secondary target. Though of course you have to make sure there's another target within five feet, otherwise it'll carry over to a friendly model or even yourself.
or one can go variant scag half elf and pick up the booming blade cantrip that way, then go for tempest cleric and thus increase your damage by 1d8 at 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, and 17th level, not as impressive as sneak attack but pretty high up there
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I designed two cleric cantrips called Blessed Strike and Baneful Strike. Both followed the normal melee cantrip rules, but read:
Baneful Strike
As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell’s range, otherwise the spell fails. On a hit, the target suffers the attack’s normal effects, and you sap the creature's strength. Until the start of your next turn, the target must roll a d4 and subtract the number from the damage roll of its next weapon attack, then the spell ends.
The amount of damage subtracted from the damage increases at higher levels. At 5th level, 11th, and 17th level, the amount of damage subtracted increases by 1d4 points.
Blessed Strike
As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell’s range, otherwise the spell fails. On a hit, the target suffers the attack’s normal effects, and you sheath the creature in radiant energy. Until the start of your next turn, the next ally that makes a damage roll against the target can roll a d4 and add the number rolled to the damage roll, then the spell ends.
The amount of damage added increases when you reach higher levels. At 5th level, 11th, and 17th level, the extra radiant damage increases by 1d4.
so the sword coast adventurers guide provided two very neat cantrips, booming blade and green flame blade, two cantrips where as part of the casting you make an melee weapon attack, and after a few levels this melee attack deals more damage and i just think it might be neat to have such an cantrip for the cleric (or as an talent for mystics but i will not mess with that class for now), but the thing is i keep running into the fact that all cleric subclasses have ether potent cantrips or divine strike as an subclass feature, two features that might work to well with such an cantrip to produce an unwantedly high per round damage output.
So if you were to homebrew your own cantrip, and you were to make it fall in line with the power level of similar options, how would you go about such a thing? whould you make the damage scale less, only a d6 instead of an d8? what damage type would it be and what effect would it impose, to fit it within the idea of what an cleric should be? Should just such an cantrip never be put on the cleric spell list to begin with?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Holy blade
D8 damage
a blade of pure light forms in your hand and will do a damage type related to your domain
(light=radiant or fire, tempest=lightning, etc)
so literally just fancy shillelagh?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Yeah
seems like a good option since it would not increase damage potency, but the big problem is that bards, pact of the tombe warlocks and people with the magic initiate feat all have access to cleric cantrips, so having a cantrip that depends on something you might not have is kind of bad design, so maybe instead something like it always has radiant damage as their damage type, but if you gain the divine strike feature it becomes that damage type
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
You could base it on character alignment, as other things do. Good=radiant, evil=necrotic, neutral=choose one of those, or just force. Or you could just call it magical slashing damage.
Yeah it could just be considered magical
The game designers purposefully made the Sorcerer/Warlock/Wizard ranged spell attack cantrips better than the Cleric/Druid ranged spell attack cantrips. They purposefully gave the Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard nice melee attack cantrips in the SCAG, and did not give them to the Cleric or Druid. If you're going to give the Cleric or Druid a melee attack cantrip, it should be on par with the other Cleric and Druid ranged attack cantrips, instead of being on par with the Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard melee and ranged attack cantrips.
yeah obiously becuase if i just give them cantrips of the same power level as the scag and let them scale with divine strike their DPS might get out of hand a little too quickly
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I would go the other way. You are a cleric, not a Fighter - forget about extra damage, there are a ton of ways to do that in game already.
I would design a blade spell that does something INTERESTING. Think Fred Saberhagen Swords.
How about the following Cantrip:
Though to be honest, that sounds more like a bard thing. But you get the idea - it's not just about damage.
Using your reaction when you're attacked to make the attack deal zero damage, and instead you deal damage to the attacker? That's not a cantrip, that's a levelled spell.
Yeah, you are probably right about this being too powerfull for a cantrip. (It as was off the cuff.) But you get the idea. I was trying to show how a blade spell does not have to be all about the damage.
How about a Cleric Cantrip where you make a melee attack with a weapon as part of casting the spell, and if your attack hits, the enemy gives off bright light for 5ft and dim light for another 5ft until the end of your next turn (and can't be invisible), and the next attack on that enemy before the end of your next turn has advantage on the attack roll.
Is that too powerful? Or too weak?
does not quite scale quite as well, but at the same time it is an nice effect, like a mix of brandind smite and faerie fire, i like it, it does not scale in damage and thus avoids the divine strike dilemma, it is rather useful and worth casting over other cantrips, this is exactly what i wanted, thank you
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Don’t forget that the Class Feature Variants gives Paladins access to a Fighting Style that gives them two Cleric Cantrips too.
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I'm glad that I could help. It doubles down on the Cleric's role as support, and that's probably a good thing because many people choose Cleric because they enjoy playing a support character.
Arcana Cleric can already take the Sword Coast cantrips. Probably only one since you'd want a ranged Wizard cantrip as well. Green Flame Blade and Fire Bolt on a Wood Elf Cleric so you have proficiency in shortswords and can make a full dexterity build? You do get Potent Spellcasting at level 8, which adds your Wisdom modifier (+5 at this point) to all Cleric cantrip damage (and the two Wizard cantrips you take as an Arcana Cleric count as Cleric cantrips).
That does become quite nice damage accumulation, at level 8 doing D6+3 melee damage +D8+5 fire damage to your primary target, and D8+10 fire damage to the secondary target. Though of course you have to make sure there's another target within five feet, otherwise it'll carry over to a friendly model or even yourself.
or one can go variant scag half elf and pick up the booming blade cantrip that way, then go for tempest cleric and thus increase your damage by 1d8 at 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, and 17th level, not as impressive as sneak attack but pretty high up there
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Very true.
I designed two cleric cantrips called Blessed Strike and Baneful Strike. Both followed the normal melee cantrip rules, but read:
Baneful Strike
As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell’s range, otherwise the spell fails. On a hit, the target suffers the attack’s normal effects, and you sap the creature's strength. Until the start of your next turn, the target must roll a d4 and subtract the number from the damage roll of its next weapon attack, then the spell ends.
The amount of damage subtracted from the damage increases at higher levels. At 5th level, 11th, and 17th level, the amount of damage subtracted increases by 1d4 points.
Blessed Strike
As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell’s range, otherwise the spell fails. On a hit, the target suffers the attack’s normal effects, and you sheath the creature in radiant energy. Until the start of your next turn, the next ally that makes a damage roll against the target can roll a d4 and add the number rolled to the damage roll, then the spell ends.
The amount of damage added increases when you reach higher levels. At 5th level, 11th, and 17th level, the extra radiant damage increases by 1d4.
May you always roll 20s