Hi I am playing a Mountain Dwarf Order Cleric/Enchantment Wizard. Currently she is level Cleric 1/Wizard 2. She wears plate and shield and has the shield spell so she is ok to be on the front line.
The campaign goes to level 12, from where we are now I am going to go to cleric 6 and then Wizard 6. So I will always have higher level slots than spells. I am considering what spells to take that will upcast well.
I have cause fear and charm person as a wizard and those are good at upcasting I think. When I start gaining wizard levels I think it will be easier, because a lot of Wizard spells upcast well (Tasha's mind whip, summon Fey being two obvioul). For now though I was wondering about cleric spells 1st, 2nd and 3rd level that upcast well since those will be the spells I will have for the next few levels.
For cleric I was thinking inflict wounds aid and hold person when she gets to 2nd level.
Catching more party members in bless is pretty nice, though it’s value may vary based on party size and composition. Cure wounds out of combat can be really nice. Situationally, dispel magic can be a good upcast.
Aid, though again that could depend on party composition. Though it’s nice since they aren’t temp hp, do they stack and the hp you get from them can be healed.
A lot of people poo poo bane, but I like it, especially when it’s paired with something like mind sliver. When it comes to setting up an enemy for a party member to really whammy them with something strong and you absolutely need them to fail the saving throw those combined penalties can really add up.
A lot of people poo poo bane, but I like it, especially when it’s paired with something like mind sliver. When it comes to setting up an enemy for a party member to really whammy them with something strong and you absolutely need them to fail the saving throw those combined penalties can really add up.
Bless is better typically, but bane is phenomenal if you have someone else blessing the group already. It can really depend on what you're trying to do though. If you need your spells to hit or if you need to resist spells. Do you need your attacks to hit or need to not get hit. They opposite sides of the defense/offense coins and both spells offer a bit of both. The only reason bane isn't as good is because of the save, since bless doesn't have one.
Spirit Guardian is legit the best sustained AOE damage in many/most cases. When really monopolized, it can do some serious work. The slow also keeps squishier targets a little protected, too. When enemies rush at you, often you'll find they end up stopping short of reaching you, or having to dash to close the last few squares. I second Spirit Guardians for sure, many people know it is a great spell but it is still undervalued. Spirit Shroud isn't the way to go here. On a cleric? Thats just like... one hit. And upcasts is only 1d8 extra per two levels higher. Not at all worth it. You're going to spend a 5th level slot to do 2d8 damage? Naw.
OP, here is my list of recommendations for spells that upcast very well from cleric or wizard list:
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
It is mostly the cleric's I am worried about. I have cause fear as a wizard and that is a great spell to upcast. At 9th level (6 Cleric/3Wizard) I will pick up Tasha's Mind Whip and that spell is awesome on an upcast, so once I make 9th level that will be most of what I use my 4th/5th/6th level spell slots on I think. Hold Person is good too, but it is a wisdom save and kind of situational.
The Cleric is order cleric which means I will be able to cast an enchantment as a bonus action 4 times a day. That makes Hold Person and Tasha's Mind Whip even better as I can bonus action them while using or holding someone with hypnotc gaze. Or just bonus action and then dodge as an action.
This character does not even carry weapons, so spirit shroud is a non-player. Spirit Guardians is a great 3rd level spell, especially since she is plate and shield (and shield spell), not sure it is as good upcast as cause fear is though. Cause fear on 4 enemies vs SG for an extra 1d8 does not seem like a great trade, especially early in the fight. I could open with cause fear, keeping the enemies away while we wail on them from range, then drop it for SG once they make their save and start moving into melee.
Order domain really sings when you're affecting allies with your spells. That really makes bless a standout for upcasting if you have a bigger group. Since, not only is it pound for pound one of the best spells in the game at all levels, but also when you cast it you can allow one of the affected allies a reaction attack. Super handy. Especially since it is an Enchantment, so BA cast is on the table here.
Similarly, keep Aid ready to go at all times. It is pretty remarkable. For one, it isn't concentration. So you can cast it without having to sacrifice your big guns. But, also for the fact it targets 3 people and they all get more max, but also more current, hp. Very good as a heal spell, even mid combat, maybe even especially mid combat. Order lets one of the 3 gets a reaction attack, again, buffs are great to pair with Order.
But, we also need to factor in your Enchanter subclass too, you have a reliable and resource free Incap. That's pretty dope. In that case, since you can BA cast enchantments, pairing an upcast Bane and a followup Hypnotic gaze to whichever enemy fails against Bane can be a fun 1-2-combo.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Order domain really sings when you're affecting allies with your spells. That really makes bless a standout for upcasting if you have a bigger group. Since, not only is it pound for pound one of the best spells in the game at all levels, but also when you cast it you can allow one of the affected allies a reaction attack. Super handy. Especially since it is an Enchantment, so BA cast is on the table here.
Similarly, keep Aid ready to go at all times. It is pretty remarkable. For one, it isn't concentration. So you can cast it without having to sacrifice your big guns. But, also for the fact it targets 3 people and they all get more max, but also more current, hp. Very good as a heal spell, even mid combat, maybe even especially mid combat. Order lets one of the 3 gets a reaction attack, again, buffs are great to pair with Order.
But, we also need to factor in your Enchanter subclass too, you have a reliable and resource free Incap. That's pretty dope. In that case, since you can BA cast enchantments, pairing an upcast Bane and a followup Hypnotic gaze to whichever enemy fails against Bane can be a fun 1-2-combo.
There is only 4 in my group right now - me, Twilight Cleric, Aberant Mind Sorc and Barbarian. Right now (level 2 order cleric, level 2 Enchantment Wizard) I am using bless a lot with the order domain feature (letting the Barbarian attack) but I can only use it once and it is only worth upcasting to 2nd level, and that assumes we are all close enough. I am also using shield of faith on the Barbarian a good bit, giving him a +2AC and a reaction attack and only using a bonus action, letting me cast chill touch or sacred flame as an action.
I am also planning to use healing word to get a reaction attack although that is kind of comical as usually they are down and prone when I cast it. You are concious and now you get to make an attack at disadvantage - go for his knees!
I think Aid will be really good. It is a really good spell for bringing back an ally, with the bonus of maybe letting another ally, who is not down, make the reaction attack.
I play wizards a lot, but usually they are bladesingers and when not in melee using melee spells (abjurations, illusions, transmutations), they are throwing necromancy controls (fear, cause fear) or summoning allies. This is my first time concentrating more on enchantment spells so I don't have a lot of experience with them. I have only played two clerics in 5E - Tempest and Twilight and the twilight was a Rogue multiclass with more Rogue than Cleric. So not a lot of experience there.
I also will have spiritual weapon and hypnotic gaze - so lead with Bane like you said, follow with hyp gaze then next round maintain the gaze and cast spiritual weapon to make attacks while you keep the gazed guy out of the fight every turn with no save.
As an aside I have a 17 Wisdom and at level 6 (cleric 4/Wizard 2) I plan to take Fey Touched with Dissonant Whispers for another bonus action option and boost to 18. The DM plays that DW movement causes AOOs, so this is a pretty powerful spell on a first level slot, especially as a bonus action, or maybe when the bad guy makes his hyp gaze save. It doesn't upcast well though.
Yeah if you got a cleric in your group let them Bless while you bane. But, be ready to bless when they can't/don't. Sounds like you got some good strats on standby. Sounds fun!
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Spirit Guardian is legit the best sustained AOE damage in many/most cases. When really monopolized, it can do some serious work. The slow also keeps squishier targets a little protected, too. When enemies rush at you, often you'll find they end up stopping short of reaching you, or having to dash to close the last few squares. I second Spirit Guardians for sure, many people know it is a great spell but it is still undervalued. Spirit Shroud isn't the way to go here. On a cleric? Thats just like... one hit. And upcasts is only 1d8 extra per two levels higher. Not at all worth it. You're going to spend a 5th level slot to do 2d8 damage? Naw.
A 5th level Spirit Shroud is basically a Holy Weapon with different riders. Is it the best option for a Cleric? Probably not, but it can be fun. Also, it works well with the classic Spiritual Weapon +Weapon/Cantrip attack +Spirit Guardians combo.
Spirit Guardian is legit the best sustained AOE damage in many/most cases. When really monopolized, it can do some serious work. The slow also keeps squishier targets a little protected, too. When enemies rush at you, often you'll find they end up stopping short of reaching you, or having to dash to close the last few squares. I second Spirit Guardians for sure, many people know it is a great spell but it is still undervalued. Spirit Shroud isn't the way to go here. On a cleric? Thats just like... one hit. And upcasts is only 1d8 extra per two levels higher. Not at all worth it. You're going to spend a 5th level slot to do 2d8 damage? Naw.
A 5th level Spirit Shroud is basically a Holy Weapon with different riders. Is it the best option for a Cleric? Probably not, but it can be fun. Also, it works well with the classic Spiritual Weapon +Weapon/Cantrip attack +Spirit Guardians combo.
Shroud and Guardians are both Concentration. You gotta picknone or the other. And the comparison is pretty easy.
Guardians. Is action. Is AOE. Base 3d8 Radiant or Necrotic. Damage proc at starts of turns or when entering area. Upcast 4th+ is +1d8 per level. Ie 8d8 at 9th level. Wis for half. Halves speed. Lasts 10 minutes.
Shroud. Is bonus action. Rider on other attacks. Base +1d8 Radiant, Necrotic, or Cold. Damage applies if attacks hit, no save. Upcast is +1d8 per two levels, ie +4d8 at 9th level. Target within 10ft is -10 speed. Affected target cant heal. Lasts 1 minute.
So, compare a situation thats favorable to Shroud, one where youre only fighting one enemy. One your first round you either:
Spirit Guardian. (If it isnt already active from less than 10 minutes ago) any BA non-Spell you have, move into position. (TK is one of my preferences since if you move so a dude it like almost in, then yeet him in with a BA TK it ticks damage now and then also on hist turn start) Guardians will tick for 3d8 at the targets next start. (Or combined 6d8 with TK)
Vs
Shroud. You Shroud as a BA and then use an action to Attack. Lets say youre even Arcane domain and are using booming blade or something. Shroud is offering you + 1d8 damage maybe.
Round one so far seems to me to favor Guardians. Lets see how round 2 shapes up.
Guardians. You can BA spirit weapon and then action a spell or cantrip. Meanwhile SG just does its thing, 3d8.
Shroud. Same as above, you BA SW and then attack with a cantrip. If both hit shroud added 2d8.
Wait hold up, 3d8 v 2d8? Mhm. Even base numbers here Guardians outshines Shroud.
Notable exceptions being: You MUST use cold damage for some reason. And, the enemy is healing a bunch and you need to stop that. In those cases only, shroud is better.
This is just because the cleric doesn't get a lot of attacks. If he had more attacks you could monopolize on the fact shroud adds to each one. Someone like a warlock shooting a dozen beams of eldritch blast would LOVE shroud. But not so much cleric with his one attack, or two with his BA.
And again, theyre both L3 spells and serve very similar roles, and require concentration. So they're a bit incompatible to use together.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
One problem with SG is it interferes with hypnotic gaze unless I designate the guy I am going to gaze as being immune to it. I am definitely going to have it, not wure how much I will use it though
Two others that will work well upcast I think are inflict wounds and mass healing word (because it is a Bonus action and works with order domain).
Spirit Guardian is legit the best sustained AOE damage in many/most cases. When really monopolized, it can do some serious work. The slow also keeps squishier targets a little protected, too. When enemies rush at you, often you'll find they end up stopping short of reaching you, or having to dash to close the last few squares. I second Spirit Guardians for sure, many people know it is a great spell but it is still undervalued. Spirit Shroud isn't the way to go here. On a cleric? Thats just like... one hit. And upcasts is only 1d8 extra per two levels higher. Not at all worth it. You're going to spend a 5th level slot to do 2d8 damage? Naw.
A 5th level Spirit Shroud is basically a Holy Weapon with different riders. Is it the best option for a Cleric? Probably not, but it can be fun. Also, it works well with the classic Spiritual Weapon +Weapon/Cantrip attack +Spirit Guardians combo.
Shroud and Guardians are both Concentration. You gotta picknone or the other. And the comparison is pretty easy.
Yeah, forgot about the concentration part. Shroud has the advantage that it can be doubled on a crit though. The ability to change damage type is also nice, if situational.
Spirit Guardian is legit the best sustained AOE damage in many/most cases. When really monopolized, it can do some serious work. The slow also keeps squishier targets a little protected, too. When enemies rush at you, often you'll find they end up stopping short of reaching you, or having to dash to close the last few squares. I second Spirit Guardians for sure, many people know it is a great spell but it is still undervalued. Spirit Shroud isn't the way to go here. On a cleric? Thats just like... one hit. And upcasts is only 1d8 extra per two levels higher. Not at all worth it. You're going to spend a 5th level slot to do 2d8 damage? Naw.
A 5th level Spirit Shroud is basically a Holy Weapon with different riders. Is it the best option for a Cleric? Probably not, but it can be fun. Also, it works well with the classic Spiritual Weapon +Weapon/Cantrip attack +Spirit Guardians combo.
Shroud and Guardians are both Concentration. You gotta picknone or the other. And the comparison is pretty easy.
Yeah, forgot about the concentration part. Shroud has the advantage that it can be doubled on a crit though. The ability to change damage type is also nice, if situational.
And guardians has advantage that it does half damage even if they save. You miss your shroud attack and it does nothing. (This is standard save v attack ish)
The real nuts and bolts is just the amount of dice and how they're applied. Single target vs aoe.
The fact of the matter is, unless the number of attacks overcomes the base damage of guardians, guardians is just objectively better. So if cast at L3, that means 3+ attacks vs a single target. But, if it is say, vs just 2 targets, you'd need to do 6+ attacks a round for shroud to be better... The difference is huge and dramatic. Not even a contest for a class like cleric.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Spirit Guardian is legit the best sustained AOE damage in many/most cases. When really monopolized, it can do some serious work. The slow also keeps squishier targets a little protected, too. When enemies rush at you, often you'll find they end up stopping short of reaching you, or having to dash to close the last few squares. I second Spirit Guardians for sure, many people know it is a great spell but it is still undervalued. Spirit Shroud isn't the way to go here. On a cleric? Thats just like... one hit. And upcasts is only 1d8 extra per two levels higher. Not at all worth it. You're going to spend a 5th level slot to do 2d8 damage? Naw.
A 5th level Spirit Shroud is basically a Holy Weapon with different riders. Is it the best option for a Cleric? Probably not, but it can be fun. Also, it works well with the classic Spiritual Weapon +Weapon/Cantrip attack +Spirit Guardians combo.
Shroud and Guardians are both Concentration. You gotta picknone or the other. And the comparison is pretty easy.
Yeah, forgot about the concentration part. Shroud has the advantage that it can be doubled on a crit though. The ability to change damage type is also nice, if situational.
And guardians has advantage that it does half damage even if they save. You miss your shroud attack and it does nothing. (This is standard save v attack ish)
The real nuts and bolts is just the amount of dice and how they're applied. Single target vs aoe.
The fact of the matter is, unless the number of attacks overcomes the base damage of guardians, guardians is just objectively better. So if cast at L3, that means 3+ attacks vs a single target. But, if it is say, vs just 2 targets, you'd need to do 6+ attacks a round for shroud to be better... The difference is huge and dramatic. Not even a contest for a class like cleric.
We were talking about vs single targets, remember?
We were talking about vs single targets, remember?
No we were comparing the two spells. You're right to highlight that shroud is only even remotely comparable if you only fight a single enemy, though. For all the times that happens. If you're fighting a group of enemies, well, then the equation changes very fast.
Like vs 4 enemies? Shroud is still only adding maybe 2d8 per round. Meanwhile guardians is doing up to 12d8 (more with forced movement or careless enemies). Etc.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
We were talking about vs single targets, remember?
No we were comparing the two spells.
Yes, and the comparison was made against single targets. As per your own words: " compare a situation thats favorable to Shroud, one where youre[sic] only fighting one enemy".
Spirit Shroud is not going to work. The character just turned level 7 (Cleric 5, Wizard 2).
Through the first 6 levels, I think I have only made 12 attack rolls against creatures; 8 attacks with a spiritual weapon in 3 fights, Chill Touch Twice, Inflict Wounds cast at 3rd level once, and an unarmed strike against an ally while confused (I usually carry no weapons). Everything else she has done in combat has been a save or a buff.
With that in mind I don't think spirit shroud is the way to go. As for 3rd level prepared spells - I have SG prepared along with my domain spells which are mass healing word and slow. I think I am going to end up using slow a lot for the next two levels.
I think I will usually use Spiritual Weapon, Command, Cause Fear, Dissonant Whispers or Inflict Wounds with my 4th level slot. I have DW through Fey Touched.
Hi I am playing a Mountain Dwarf Order Cleric/Enchantment Wizard. Currently she is level Cleric 1/Wizard 2. She wears plate and shield and has the shield spell so she is ok to be on the front line.
The campaign goes to level 12, from where we are now I am going to go to cleric 6 and then Wizard 6. So I will always have higher level slots than spells. I am considering what spells to take that will upcast well.
I have cause fear and charm person as a wizard and those are good at upcasting I think. When I start gaining wizard levels I think it will be easier, because a lot of Wizard spells upcast well (Tasha's mind whip, summon Fey being two obvioul). For now though I was wondering about cleric spells 1st, 2nd and 3rd level that upcast well since those will be the spells I will have for the next few levels.
For cleric I was thinking inflict wounds aid and hold person when she gets to 2nd level.
Catching more party members in bless is pretty nice, though it’s value may vary based on party size and composition.
Cure wounds out of combat can be really nice.
Situationally, dispel magic can be a good upcast.
Aid, though again that could depend on party composition. Though it’s nice since they aren’t temp hp, do they stack and the hp you get from them can be healed.
A lot of people poo poo bane, but I like it, especially when it’s paired with something like mind sliver. When it comes to setting up an enemy for a party member to really whammy them with something strong and you absolutely need them to fail the saving throw those combined penalties can really add up.
Spirit guardians and spirit shroud are good ones too.
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Bless is better typically, but bane is phenomenal if you have someone else blessing the group already. It can really depend on what you're trying to do though. If you need your spells to hit or if you need to resist spells. Do you need your attacks to hit or need to not get hit. They opposite sides of the defense/offense coins and both spells offer a bit of both. The only reason bane isn't as good is because of the save, since bless doesn't have one.
Spirit Guardian is legit the best sustained AOE damage in many/most cases. When really monopolized, it can do some serious work. The slow also keeps squishier targets a little protected, too. When enemies rush at you, often you'll find they end up stopping short of reaching you, or having to dash to close the last few squares. I second Spirit Guardians for sure, many people know it is a great spell but it is still undervalued. Spirit Shroud isn't the way to go here. On a cleric? Thats just like... one hit. And upcasts is only 1d8 extra per two levels higher. Not at all worth it. You're going to spend a 5th level slot to do 2d8 damage? Naw.
OP, here is my list of recommendations for spells that upcast very well from cleric or wizard list:
1st-
2nd-
3rd-
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
It is mostly the cleric's I am worried about. I have cause fear as a wizard and that is a great spell to upcast. At 9th level (6 Cleric/3Wizard) I will pick up Tasha's Mind Whip and that spell is awesome on an upcast, so once I make 9th level that will be most of what I use my 4th/5th/6th level spell slots on I think. Hold Person is good too, but it is a wisdom save and kind of situational.
The Cleric is order cleric which means I will be able to cast an enchantment as a bonus action 4 times a day. That makes Hold Person and Tasha's Mind Whip even better as I can bonus action them while using or holding someone with hypnotc gaze. Or just bonus action and then dodge as an action.
This character does not even carry weapons, so spirit shroud is a non-player. Spirit Guardians is a great 3rd level spell, especially since she is plate and shield (and shield spell), not sure it is as good upcast as cause fear is though. Cause fear on 4 enemies vs SG for an extra 1d8 does not seem like a great trade, especially early in the fight. I could open with cause fear, keeping the enemies away while we wail on them from range, then drop it for SG once they make their save and start moving into melee.
Order domain really sings when you're affecting allies with your spells. That really makes bless a standout for upcasting if you have a bigger group. Since, not only is it pound for pound one of the best spells in the game at all levels, but also when you cast it you can allow one of the affected allies a reaction attack. Super handy. Especially since it is an Enchantment, so BA cast is on the table here.
Similarly, keep Aid ready to go at all times. It is pretty remarkable. For one, it isn't concentration. So you can cast it without having to sacrifice your big guns. But, also for the fact it targets 3 people and they all get more max, but also more current, hp. Very good as a heal spell, even mid combat, maybe even especially mid combat. Order lets one of the 3 gets a reaction attack, again, buffs are great to pair with Order.
But, we also need to factor in your Enchanter subclass too, you have a reliable and resource free Incap. That's pretty dope. In that case, since you can BA cast enchantments, pairing an upcast Bane and a followup Hypnotic gaze to whichever enemy fails against Bane can be a fun 1-2-combo.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Spirit shroud even works on spell attacks
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There is only 4 in my group right now - me, Twilight Cleric, Aberant Mind Sorc and Barbarian. Right now (level 2 order cleric, level 2 Enchantment Wizard) I am using bless a lot with the order domain feature (letting the Barbarian attack) but I can only use it once and it is only worth upcasting to 2nd level, and that assumes we are all close enough. I am also using shield of faith on the Barbarian a good bit, giving him a +2AC and a reaction attack and only using a bonus action, letting me cast chill touch or sacred flame as an action.
I am also planning to use healing word to get a reaction attack although that is kind of comical as usually they are down and prone when I cast it. You are concious and now you get to make an attack at disadvantage - go for his knees!
I think Aid will be really good. It is a really good spell for bringing back an ally, with the bonus of maybe letting another ally, who is not down, make the reaction attack.
I play wizards a lot, but usually they are bladesingers and when not in melee using melee spells (abjurations, illusions, transmutations), they are throwing necromancy controls (fear, cause fear) or summoning allies. This is my first time concentrating more on enchantment spells so I don't have a lot of experience with them. I have only played two clerics in 5E - Tempest and Twilight and the twilight was a Rogue multiclass with more Rogue than Cleric. So not a lot of experience there.
I also will have spiritual weapon and hypnotic gaze - so lead with Bane like you said, follow with hyp gaze then next round maintain the gaze and cast spiritual weapon to make attacks while you keep the gazed guy out of the fight every turn with no save.
As an aside I have a 17 Wisdom and at level 6 (cleric 4/Wizard 2) I plan to take Fey Touched with Dissonant Whispers for another bonus action option and boost to 18. The DM plays that DW movement causes AOOs, so this is a pretty powerful spell on a first level slot, especially as a bonus action, or maybe when the bad guy makes his hyp gaze save. It doesn't upcast well though.
Yeah if you got a cleric in your group let them Bless while you bane. But, be ready to bless when they can't/don't. Sounds like you got some good strats on standby. Sounds fun!
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
A 5th level Spirit Shroud is basically a Holy Weapon with different riders. Is it the best option for a Cleric? Probably not, but it can be fun. Also, it works well with the classic Spiritual Weapon +Weapon/Cantrip attack +Spirit Guardians combo.
Shroud and Guardians are both Concentration. You gotta picknone or the other. And the comparison is pretty easy.
Guardians. Is action. Is AOE. Base 3d8 Radiant or Necrotic. Damage proc at starts of turns or when entering area. Upcast 4th+ is +1d8 per level. Ie 8d8 at 9th level. Wis for half. Halves speed. Lasts 10 minutes.
Shroud. Is bonus action. Rider on other attacks. Base +1d8 Radiant, Necrotic, or Cold. Damage applies if attacks hit, no save. Upcast is +1d8 per two levels, ie +4d8 at 9th level. Target within 10ft is -10 speed. Affected target cant heal. Lasts 1 minute.
So, compare a situation thats favorable to Shroud, one where youre only fighting one enemy. One your first round you either:
Spirit Guardian. (If it isnt already active from less than 10 minutes ago) any BA non-Spell you have, move into position. (TK is one of my preferences since if you move so a dude it like almost in, then yeet him in with a BA TK it ticks damage now and then also on hist turn start) Guardians will tick for 3d8 at the targets next start. (Or combined 6d8 with TK)
Vs
Shroud. You Shroud as a BA and then use an action to Attack. Lets say youre even Arcane domain and are using booming blade or something. Shroud is offering you + 1d8 damage maybe.
Round one so far seems to me to favor Guardians. Lets see how round 2 shapes up.
Guardians. You can BA spirit weapon and then action a spell or cantrip. Meanwhile SG just does its thing, 3d8.
Shroud. Same as above, you BA SW and then attack with a cantrip. If both hit shroud added 2d8.
Wait hold up, 3d8 v 2d8? Mhm. Even base numbers here Guardians outshines Shroud.
Notable exceptions being: You MUST use cold damage for some reason. And, the enemy is healing a bunch and you need to stop that. In those cases only, shroud is better.
This is just because the cleric doesn't get a lot of attacks. If he had more attacks you could monopolize on the fact shroud adds to each one. Someone like a warlock shooting a dozen beams of eldritch blast would LOVE shroud. But not so much cleric with his one attack, or two with his BA.
And again, theyre both L3 spells and serve very similar roles, and require concentration. So they're a bit incompatible to use together.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
One problem with SG is it interferes with hypnotic gaze unless I designate the guy I am going to gaze as being immune to it. I am definitely going to have it, not wure how much I will use it though
Two others that will work well upcast I think are inflict wounds and mass healing word (because it is a Bonus action and works with order domain).
Yeah, forgot about the concentration part. Shroud has the advantage that it can be doubled on a crit though. The ability to change damage type is also nice, if situational.
And guardians has advantage that it does half damage even if they save. You miss your shroud attack and it does nothing. (This is standard save v attack ish)
The real nuts and bolts is just the amount of dice and how they're applied. Single target vs aoe.
The fact of the matter is, unless the number of attacks overcomes the base damage of guardians, guardians is just objectively better. So if cast at L3, that means 3+ attacks vs a single target. But, if it is say, vs just 2 targets, you'd need to do 6+ attacks a round for shroud to be better... The difference is huge and dramatic. Not even a contest for a class like cleric.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
We were talking about vs single targets, remember?
No we were comparing the two spells. You're right to highlight that shroud is only even remotely comparable if you only fight a single enemy, though. For all the times that happens. If you're fighting a group of enemies, well, then the equation changes very fast.
Like vs 4 enemies? Shroud is still only adding maybe 2d8 per round. Meanwhile guardians is doing up to 12d8 (more with forced movement or careless enemies). Etc.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Yes, and the comparison was made against single targets. As per your own words: " compare a situation thats favorable to Shroud, one where youre[sic] only fighting one enemy".
Spirit Shroud is not going to work. The character just turned level 7 (Cleric 5, Wizard 2).
Through the first 6 levels, I think I have only made 12 attack rolls against creatures; 8 attacks with a spiritual weapon in 3 fights, Chill Touch Twice, Inflict Wounds cast at 3rd level once, and an unarmed strike against an ally while confused (I usually carry no weapons). Everything else she has done in combat has been a save or a buff.
With that in mind I don't think spirit shroud is the way to go. As for 3rd level prepared spells - I have SG prepared along with my domain spells which are mass healing word and slow. I think I am going to end up using slow a lot for the next two levels.
I think I will usually use Spiritual Weapon, Command, Cause Fear, Dissonant Whispers or Inflict Wounds with my 4th level slot. I have DW through Fey Touched.