I would love to use D&DB as my main source for everything D&D but I am worried about two points:
Permanence and
Relevance
Permanence:
So what do I mean by permanence? I think this xkcd-graph shows it pretty well:
D&D-Beyond will be gone one day. The only thing that is uncertain is when that's going to happen and what your exit strategy is going to look like. Before I sink more money or even a yearly subscription into your service I need to know
is there is any possibility of downloadable PDFs for ordered books as a planned feature and/or
can you provide us with downloadable PDFs in case D&DB has to shut down the service or
are both options absolutely never going to happen because of legal reasons?
Relevance:
As much as I like using D&DB the information it provides me with is mostly not relevant when I am actively playing. Why is that so? Because I am from Germany. I have no problem reading english books but playing a pen & paper rpg requires looking up certain names very often. For example I created a character in D&DB that has the spell "Shape Water". When we sat at the table it took forever for us to find the description for the spell "Shape Water" in the german PHB because we didn't know what exactly the translation is.
This results in D&DB being just not very relevant for us as long as it doesn't work together with our german books. Different names and pages for things makes bringing digital content to the table a bad idea.
What interests me the most is if both points, bundled PDFs/PDFs when website goes down/bundled books and translations, are realistically solvable or outright never going to happen due to legal reasons. I can wait for these features, sure. But if somebody here already knows that this is definetely a no than it would be great to know now.
If you download the mobile app it seems like you could have close to the same life as for a PDF even if the company disappeared tomorrow though it might be locked to the devices you download it too. It would at the very least last for the life of your mobile device.
I'm also pretty sure you can download the books to a computer as well.
With that said I would prefer a PDF with the purchase or a downloadable reader that was fairly easily transferable. Though I suspect there are licensing issues with the former.
Please note just a customer and this is only my understanding as a relatively recent customer who has done a lot of forum review.
"It would at the very least last for the life of your mobile device."
That's not "close to the life of a PDF." A mobile device might last 4-5 years; and that's assuming you don't upgrade frequently and your device doesn't get damaged. PDFs have been around since the '90s.
Even if it isn't locked to a specific device, an app without maintenance is not going to last for long. Mobile OSes are still rapidly evolving.
I think the Terms of Sale kind of answer your questions, though not directly. No, PDFs don't seem to be in the cards as a planned feature or if the service is discontinued.
By “earning,” “buying,” “unlocking,” “purchasing,” or otherwise gaining access to these digital goods in connection with D&D Beyond, you obtain a non-exclusive, revocable, limited right and license to access the software programs, information, and/or functionality that manifest themselves as such digital goods for non-commercial, personal entertainment purposes only, subject to your compliance with these Terms and any other relevant policies enacted by Twitch from time to time. The purchase price or other cost of such limited licenses is not refundable, transferable or exchangeable including, without limitation, upon termination of your account, upon termination of these Terms, upon the discontinuation of the Twitch Service, or otherwise.
That is basically the cost of doing business when it comes to purchasing online content. It only lasts as long as it is supported by developers.
Now, I have no doubt that the developers of D&D Beyond are folks who want to keep it going and keep improving it as long as possible. And it seems they're well-supported by their parent company and by Wizards of the Coast.
But it's still a risk. I really like the convenience of the tools they offer, so I take that risk. If you want something that you own and isn't likely to be taken away from you, the books are the way to go. If you like both and have the money, buy both 😄
Short version: nothing is forever, there's pros and cons to physical vs digital purchases, WotC claims 5th edition is doing great, the DDB/Curse team also say they're doing well, and there's no new editions on the roadmap. Make of that what you will.
I think the Terms of Sale kind of answer your questions, though not directly. No, PDFs don't seem to be in the cards as a planned feature or if the service is discontinued.
Just because they have not bound themselves into an ironclad legal commitment to do something, does not mean they cannot do it or will not do it.
Thanks everybody for your input regarding the permanence of D&DB content! It looks like I am not going to start building up a complete D&D library in D&DB.
That is basically the cost of doing business when it comes to purchasing online content. It only lasts as long as it is supported by developers.
It's totally possible to offer PDFs in addition to a monthly cost for doing business with Curse. But it looks like, although no dev answered this post, D&DB is not going to make any promises regarding this matter.
Now that my the topic of permanence has cleared up a bit I would like to get some information regarding relevance for the rest of the world. I picked up the PHB in D&DB and would love to pick up the MM as well as the DMG to do quick lookups at the table. Is there any news regarding translations of D&DB, especially for Germany?
They are hoping to do translations. There are licensing issues. Sources in other languages would almost certainly be separate purchases. That's all I know from previous discussions here and developer updates.
It's totally possible to offer PDFs in addition to a monthly cost for doing business with Curse. But it looks like, although no dev answered this post, D&DB is not going to make any promises regarding this matter.
Based on WotC’s historical stance of not wanting to offer PDF versions of the books, I think it’s less that Curse doesn’t want to do it and more that WotC won’t let them. That certainly may change in the future, but for now that seems to be the case.
Having been in the beta, I can tell you that it seemed pretty clear the devs were fighting for a more flexible pricing structure and getting WotC to open up their thougts on sharing materials amongst users.
A dev has never said this, likely because it’s all backend business things that can’t be discussed, but if you read between the lines of previous posts that seem to be the case.
- 6e is at least 5 years away if not longer, and all developer talk indicates that it will be backwards compatible, meaning 5e books will not be obsolete until at least 7e.
- Why would WotC get into digital content management? Saying 0% is kind of telling that you haven't really read much on these boards, as this topic has been discussed very thoroughly. Setting up that kind of infrastructure would be expensive for a company like WotC that only deals in publishing and not in direct retail. I would say that the success of DDB would indicate the exact opposite of what you're saying. The more successful DDB is, the more money WotC makes without having to spend on infrastructure or labor/maintenance, meaning it only solidifies the relationship. I would put the guarantee of DDB being involved with 6e right near 100%.
- I'm sorry that the cost of a product that you are not interested in to begin with is insulting to you. It seems like you are content with your physical books and you seem opposed to the idea of using any sort of digital tools, so it seems like there's not really any love lost between you and DDB. One of the great things about tabletop gaming is that there are as many different ways to play as there are tables to play on, so I'm not quite sure why you feel insulted by what this product offers.
I recall when 4e was released I had a similar conversation, almost in line with this one so let me see if I can break this down.
5th edition is already 4 years old, its already past its prime by historical stands for the game. It's a great, I love it, but I guarantee you that at WotC offices people are already designing 6e and you will be playing it before 2020.
With all due respect, you're way off base. Unless you're suggesting Wizards of the Coast is lying, 2017 was D&D's best year since Wizards acquired the brand, and Mordenkainen's is topping charts. The Player's Handbook is still on Amazon's best-seller list for Science Fiction & Fantasy books.
There's no way to predict where 5e is going, but it's not showing signs of slowing down yet. It'd be stupid of Wizards to jump the gun on a new, backwards-incompatible edition as long as 5e sales are going strong. They're trying to cast as wide a net as possible and get players to buy books year after year. Suddenly dropping a new, backwards-incompatible edition might get them a short spike of 6e PH/DMG/MM sales from their most diehard fans, but they're going to lose the rest of the players they've managed to attract.
Hello D&DB-Team!
I would love to use D&DB as my main source for everything D&D but I am worried about two points:
Permanence:
So what do I mean by permanence? I think this xkcd-graph shows it pretty well:
D&D-Beyond will be gone one day. The only thing that is uncertain is when that's going to happen and what your exit strategy is going to look like. Before I sink more money or even a yearly subscription into your service I need to know
Relevance:
As much as I like using D&DB the information it provides me with is mostly not relevant when I am actively playing. Why is that so? Because I am from Germany. I have no problem reading english books but playing a pen & paper rpg requires looking up certain names very often. For example I created a character in D&DB that has the spell "Shape Water". When we sat at the table it took forever for us to find the description for the spell "Shape Water" in the german PHB because we didn't know what exactly the translation is.
This results in D&DB being just not very relevant for us as long as it doesn't work together with our german books. Different names and pages for things makes bringing digital content to the table a bad idea.
What interests me the most is if both points, bundled PDFs/PDFs when website goes down/bundled books and translations, are realistically solvable or outright never going to happen due to legal reasons. I can wait for these features, sure. But if somebody here already knows that this is definetely a no than it would be great to know now.
Regards, S4m3
If you download the mobile app it seems like you could have close to the same life as for a PDF even if the company disappeared tomorrow though it might be locked to the devices you download it too. It would at the very least last for the life of your mobile device.
I'm also pretty sure you can download the books to a computer as well.
With that said I would prefer a PDF with the purchase or a downloadable reader that was fairly easily transferable. Though I suspect there are licensing issues with the former.
Please note just a customer and this is only my understanding as a relatively recent customer who has done a lot of forum review.
"It would at the very least last for the life of your mobile device."
That's not "close to the life of a PDF." A mobile device might last 4-5 years; and that's assuming you don't upgrade frequently and your device doesn't get damaged. PDFs have been around since the '90s.
Even if it isn't locked to a specific device, an app without maintenance is not going to last for long. Mobile OSes are still rapidly evolving.
I think the Terms of Sale kind of answer your questions, though not directly. No, PDFs don't seem to be in the cards as a planned feature or if the service is discontinued.
That is basically the cost of doing business when it comes to purchasing online content. It only lasts as long as it is supported by developers.
Now, I have no doubt that the developers of D&D Beyond are folks who want to keep it going and keep improving it as long as possible. And it seems they're well-supported by their parent company and by Wizards of the Coast.
But it's still a risk. I really like the convenience of the tools they offer, so I take that risk. If you want something that you own and isn't likely to be taken away from you, the books are the way to go. If you like both and have the money, buy both 😄
There's already a couple of threads on this topic. Check out:
Short version: nothing is forever, there's pros and cons to physical vs digital purchases, WotC claims 5th edition is doing great, the DDB/Curse team also say they're doing well, and there's no new editions on the roadmap. Make of that what you will.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Thanks everybody for your input regarding the permanence of D&DB content! It looks like I am not going to start building up a complete D&D library in D&DB.
They are hoping to do translations. There are licensing issues. Sources in other languages would almost certainly be separate purchases. That's all I know from previous discussions here and developer updates.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk
Thanks for sharing!
- 6e is at least 5 years away if not longer, and all developer talk indicates that it will be backwards compatible, meaning 5e books will not be obsolete until at least 7e.
- Why would WotC get into digital content management? Saying 0% is kind of telling that you haven't really read much on these boards, as this topic has been discussed very thoroughly. Setting up that kind of infrastructure would be expensive for a company like WotC that only deals in publishing and not in direct retail. I would say that the success of DDB would indicate the exact opposite of what you're saying. The more successful DDB is, the more money WotC makes without having to spend on infrastructure or labor/maintenance, meaning it only solidifies the relationship. I would put the guarantee of DDB being involved with 6e right near 100%.
- I'm sorry that the cost of a product that you are not interested in to begin with is insulting to you. It seems like you are content with your physical books and you seem opposed to the idea of using any sort of digital tools, so it seems like there's not really any love lost between you and DDB. One of the great things about tabletop gaming is that there are as many different ways to play as there are tables to play on, so I'm not quite sure why you feel insulted by what this product offers.
With all due respect, you're way off base. Unless you're suggesting Wizards of the Coast is lying, 2017 was D&D's best year since Wizards acquired the brand, and Mordenkainen's is topping charts. The Player's Handbook is still on Amazon's best-seller list for Science Fiction & Fantasy books.
5e is not like 3e or 4e and things are different now than they were in the 2000s. Twitch streaming wasn't a thing in those days. 5e is the first edition whose design was driven by public playtest feedback. 4e was born from a misguided attempt to compete with World of Warcraft by designing a ruleset that required no DM adjudication and could be run by a computer.
There's no way to predict where 5e is going, but it's not showing signs of slowing down yet. It'd be stupid of Wizards to jump the gun on a new, backwards-incompatible edition as long as 5e sales are going strong. They're trying to cast as wide a net as possible and get players to buy books year after year. Suddenly dropping a new, backwards-incompatible edition might get them a short spike of 6e PH/DMG/MM sales from their most diehard fans, but they're going to lose the rest of the players they've managed to attract.
The Forum Infestation (TM)