Not sure what the agreement is but I think it would be great if we could buy the book and unlock it on the site. That way we aren't double puchasing if we like to have the physical book but love the tools of the site.
Curse, the team behind D&D Beyond, ARE partnered with Wizards of the Coast (see the videos on the WotC site about D&D Beyond).
What you're asking comes down to simple economics:
It costs money to create and run a site like D&D Beyond.
This means that the site needs to generate revenue, to be able to continue to exist.
If that revenue doesn't come from the purchase of content on this site, because it's unlocked by buying the physical books, then it needs to come from somewhere else.
If Wizards did provide codes in the physical books, they would need to make financial reparation to Curse for this - which means that the cost of the physical books would rise, to cover the cost of the unlock code being included.
Now, everyone who buys the physical book, pays the cost of the book + unlocking on the website, whether they wanted both or not.
It seems significantly better, to keep these two things separate and allow people to purchase what they want.
Please note - I am not an employee of Curse or Wizards, so this is my own take on the situation. I have studied economics and held some fairly senior roles within several businesses though, so hopefully I have a clue what I am talking about. :)
@Stormknight, there's a significant difference between paying a monthly fee for accessing the site and the re-purchasing digital content multiple times. I'm more than happy to pay a service fee for a product that is useful. One of my biggest hopes was that D&D Beyond was going to work to address this latter problem by creating a digital format of the product that could be consumed and integrated into other toolsets. That doesn't seem to be happening, unfortunately.
Instead, if I have the PhB in physical form, and now want access to it here and in fantasy grounds, I'm going to be re-purchasing that content three different times. I'm OK with purchasing the physical copy and ONE digital copy/license. But I'm not going to buy it three or four different times (say I want to run some games in Roll20). I'm personally done buying the same content multiple times from WoTC.
Not sure what the agreement is but I think it would be great if we could buy the book and unlock it on the site. That way we aren't double puchasing if we like to have the physical book but love the tools of the site.
@Stormknight, there's a significant difference between paying a monthly fee for accessing the site and the re-purchasing digital content multiple times. I'm more than happy to pay a service fee for a product that is useful. One of my biggest hopes was that D&D Beyond was going to work to address this latter problem by creating a digital format of the product that could be consumed and integrated into other toolsets. That doesn't seem to be happening, unfortunately.
Instead, if I have the PhB in physical form, and now want access to it here and in fantasy grounds, I'm going to be re-purchasing that content three different times. I'm OK with purchasing the physical copy and ONE digital copy/license. But I'm not going to buy it three or four different times (say I want to run some games in Roll20). I'm personally done buying the same content multiple times from WoTC.
The ability to create personal homebrew is there. You have the books. If you want to take the time to do all of the digital imports for your own personal campaign/game, you can.
I'm certain that would violate some ToA policy and it would be removed from the site.
They could always offer a version of the book with or without an access code to mitigate costs. Or maybe the book access code only grants you access if you are a subscriber so Curse gets their cut
I'm certain that would violate some ToA policy and it would be removed from the site.
They could always offer a version of the book with or without an access code to mitigate costs. Or maybe the book access code only grants you access if you are a subscriber so Curse gets their cut
It's designed that way. Your personal homebrew is for you and your campaigns only. What you put in there is up to you and will not be moderated. Of course DDB does have the right to change that policy in the future.
I'm certain that would violate some ToA policy and it would be removed from the site.
They could always offer a version of the book with or without an access code to mitigate costs. Or maybe the book access code only grants you access if you are a subscriber so Curse gets their cut
No, what you create in Private homebrew is yours to use. If you want to recreate the entire PHB, you can do that. It only gets rejected when you attempt to publish it to the community.
What is being discussed is present in all forms of media. When you buy Terminator 2 on VHS, they don't gift it to you on DVD, book, Bluray, and digital download years later, because you already bought the license to view. You observed a media you wished to partake in, and purchased it. If a new media becomes available that you desire, you purchase it again. If we want to get more complicated - WOTC and Curse are two separate companies. You paid Company A, and want Company B to offer you product based upon that. The developers had to add each word, image, and line of code themselves - how should they not be paid per book sold? Service subscription fees are great, but these cover the reoccurring costs of managing servers, bandwidth, and site managing personnel. The two aspects are not one in the same.
I'm certain that would violate some ToA policy and it would be removed from the site.
They could always offer a version of the book with or without an access code to mitigate costs. Or maybe the book access code only grants you access if you are a subscriber so Curse gets their cut
No, what you create in Private homebrew is yours to use. If you want to recreate the entire PHB, you can do that. It only gets rejected when you attempt to publish it to the community.
What is being discussed is present in all forms of media. When you buy Terminator 2 on VHS, they don't gift it to you on DVD, book, Bluray, and digital download years later, because you already bought the license to view. You observed a media you wished to partake in, and purchased it. If a new media becomes available that you desire, you purchase it again. If we want to get more complicated - WOTC and Curse are two separate companies. You paid Company A, and want Company B to offer you product based upon that. The developers had to add each word, image, and line of code themselves - how should they not be paid per book sold? Service subscription fees are great, but these cover the reoccurring costs of managing servers, bandwidth, and site managing personnel. The two aspects are not one in the same.
This is a really poor example. The argument is not that I bought the book, I should have the content unlocked in D&D Beyond as well. The complaint is that D&D Beyond is perpetuating the problem that WotC seems to have absolutely no issue with: selling the same content over and over again.
I'm more than happy to buy the physical book and pay more with that purchase to have a digital download of that copy (or to even buy it separately if I must). However, I'm not going to pay $50 for the book, $50 for the content here, another $50 in Fantasy Grounds or Roll20.
Second of all, this is a contrived and self-imposed problem that has a solution that would better the D&D ecosystem with a centralized digital content system. This also opens another income channel for D&D Beyond by charging dev-token access so that places like Fantasy Grounds and Roll20 pay D&D Beyond for access to the digital form of the book so that the users can take their content and content purchases along.
And just to be extremely clear about part of your statement, "You paid Company A, and want Company B to offer you product based upon that."
NO. I want Company A, D&D Beyond in this case, to create a single source of digital content so that other companies can leverage in order to reduce their costs in integrating that content into their platform so that I'm paying Company B something like $4.99-$14.99 to unlock the content with any of their platform-specific enhancements on top of it.
I don't know if this is generational or gamer entitlement. I would never think that because I golf at one course, I don't have to pay at another.
And you have to pay a yearly fee, and a fee every time you want to play as well, a greens fee. And it's a hell of a lot more expensive then this service will be along with the 3 books a year that WotC sells.
A code for digital content would be cool, but a code for a free product from a separate company is a stretch. And for a company to then give away that content to other companies to use is just ludicrous.
A low-cost subscription to the digital content, or a reduced price for the digital content would be great. I am certainly in the boat of not wanting to pay $50 for a book and then $50 again for access to the book's digital content. I'd be cool with something like $50 for book, $10 for access to digital content. They certainly have to make money on the digital side but without printing, shipping, warehousing, publishing overhead, the digital product should not cost as much as the physical product. Yes there is development work that goes into the system, but once it is built, costs are bug-fixes, site maintenance, and plugging in new content to the interface.
I purchased my own golf clubs and can use them at driving ranges or public courses but if i want to golf on the private course, i need to buy a new set of clubs that can only be used at that course. And the clubs cannot leave the site.
owensd had a good point, purchase the core digital content that other sites can have access to (and link your account to verify purchased licences) and when you use those sites, you don't have to pay for the content again, just whatever they do with the content. You can rent clubs at the fancy course or bring your own clubs, and golf at a reduced price.
Let's try again since you are completely misrepresenting what I've written. This has nothing to do with "gamer entitlement" but wanting to create a better community.
Company B pays a "franchise fee" to Company A, who in turn provides two basic services: account tie-in and the base digital content.
Company B then integrates base digital content into their product offerings, charging a nominal fee for this to the players if they have the subscription from Company A, or the pay the full amount + nominal fee if they do not.
This would be equivalent to how you have a membership fee at a golf course that is affiliated with other golf courses. With the membership, you get discounted golf course fees at all affiliated sites. However, without the membership, you pay the full price.
Exactly, there is no need to keep building a new database for core content. Player pays WoTC for digital access to the base content in their system and creates an account with WoTC.
If another company wants to use that information and provide a different service, that company pays WoTC a fee to have access to the back-end database/API/whatever. Player then only has to pay the new company for access to their special features with a linked, authenticated, WoTC account.
Just like Google Maps, every company making an app with maps doesn't have to go out and make their own world map, they pay Google to use their map API and then add their stuff to it.
I really agree with the physical and digital copy of items coming together and choosing one mode of digital copy to use. This is already in practice and something I willingly and purposefully purchase on a somewhat regular basis. Many movies can be purchased with a digital copy of the movie. I can choose which source of the digital copy I want. I can redeem this code in iTunes or google play and sometimes a different source. The point is that there is already precedent set in the digital age for purchase of a "hard copy" and receiving a digital copy. Any comparisons to older media such as VHS to DVD is ridiculous and would only be valid if people were wanting this for any previous version of D&D. Since 5e has been released in the digital age and people are wanting this for any future purchases instead of old purchase the argument of older content receiving the same treatment is invalid.
What I feel people are upset about with the current business model is how many times someone has to purchase the content. I imagine that WotC charged the digital sites a certain amount of money for the right to use the books. These companies recoup the money spent purchasing the rights to digitally create the books and run everything by making the players repurchase everything so they have access to it digitally. Listening to the Official Dungeons and Dragons podcast has informed me that WotC most likely has all of the books in some format digitally. I can't imagine that it would be a whole lot more work to format that information into the way each website uses it. I'm not a programmer by any stretch, but if it's created one way it should be able to be imported into something else.
But this wasn't released in the digital age. The PHB was released without anything digital. So if you want digital PHB, you have to pay again.
The PHB for 5th edition was released in 2014. This is fully in the digital age. I'm also not talking about retroactively allowing owners of the PHB to be included but for any other material purchased to have a digital code included.
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Not sure what the agreement is but I think it would be great if we could buy the book and unlock it on the site. That way we aren't double puchasing if we like to have the physical book but love the tools of the site.
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D&D Beyond FoundersCurse, the team behind D&D Beyond, ARE partnered with Wizards of the Coast (see the videos on the WotC site about D&D Beyond).
What you're asking comes down to simple economics:
It seems significantly better, to keep these two things separate and allow people to purchase what they want.
Please note - I am not an employee of Curse or Wizards, so this is my own take on the situation. I have studied economics and held some fairly senior roles within several businesses though, so hopefully I have a clue what I am talking about. :)
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If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
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@Stormknight, there's a significant difference between paying a monthly fee for accessing the site and the re-purchasing digital content multiple times. I'm more than happy to pay a service fee for a product that is useful. One of my biggest hopes was that D&D Beyond was going to work to address this latter problem by creating a digital format of the product that could be consumed and integrated into other toolsets. That doesn't seem to be happening, unfortunately.
Instead, if I have the PhB in physical form, and now want access to it here and in fantasy grounds, I'm going to be re-purchasing that content three different times. I'm OK with purchasing the physical copy and ONE digital copy/license. But I'm not going to buy it three or four different times (say I want to run some games in Roll20). I'm personally done buying the same content multiple times from WoTC.
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Please feel free to message either Sorce or another moderator if you have any concerns.
I'm certain that would violate some ToA policy and it would be removed from the site.
They could always offer a version of the book with or without an access code to mitigate costs. Or maybe the book access code only grants you access if you are a subscriber so Curse gets their cut
Site Rules & Guidelines --- Focused Feedback Mega Threads --- Staff Quotes --- Homebrew Tutorial --- Pricing FAQ
Please feel free to message either Sorce or another moderator if you have any concerns.
I don't know if this is generational or gamer entitlement.
I would never think that because I golf at one course, I don't have to pay at another.
And you have to pay a yearly fee, and a fee every time you want to play as well, a greens fee.
And it's a hell of a lot more expensive then this service will be along with the 3 books a year that WotC sells.
A code for digital content would be cool, but a code for a free product from a separate company is a stretch. And for a company to then give away that content to other companies to use is just ludicrous.
A low-cost subscription to the digital content, or a reduced price for the digital content would be great. I am certainly in the boat of not wanting to pay $50 for a book and then $50 again for access to the book's digital content. I'd be cool with something like $50 for book, $10 for access to digital content. They certainly have to make money on the digital side but without printing, shipping, warehousing, publishing overhead, the digital product should not cost as much as the physical product. Yes there is development work that goes into the system, but once it is built, costs are bug-fixes, site maintenance, and plugging in new content to the interface.
This would be more like:
I purchased my own golf clubs and can use them at driving ranges or public courses but if i want to golf on the private course, i need to buy a new set of clubs that can only be used at that course. And the clubs cannot leave the site.
owensd had a good point, purchase the core digital content that other sites can have access to (and link your account to verify purchased licences) and when you use those sites, you don't have to pay for the content again, just whatever they do with the content. You can rent clubs at the fancy course or bring your own clubs, and golf at a reduced price.
Let's try again since you are completely misrepresenting what I've written. This has nothing to do with "gamer entitlement" but wanting to create a better community.
Company B pays a "franchise fee" to Company A, who in turn provides two basic services: account tie-in and the base digital content.
Company B then integrates base digital content into their product offerings, charging a nominal fee for this to the players if they have the subscription from Company A, or the pay the full amount + nominal fee if they do not.
This would be equivalent to how you have a membership fee at a golf course that is affiliated with other golf courses. With the membership, you get discounted golf course fees at all affiliated sites. However, without the membership, you pay the full price.
Just a thought here. It is not as simple as a "membership". It is a matter of copyright. The more copies you want the more copyrights you have to pay.
Exactly, there is no need to keep building a new database for core content. Player pays WoTC for digital access to the base content in their system and creates an account with WoTC.
If another company wants to use that information and provide a different service, that company pays WoTC a fee to have access to the back-end database/API/whatever. Player then only has to pay the new company for access to their special features with a linked, authenticated, WoTC account.
Just like Google Maps, every company making an app with maps doesn't have to go out and make their own world map, they pay Google to use their map API and then add their stuff to it.
I really agree with the physical and digital copy of items coming together and choosing one mode of digital copy to use. This is already in practice and something I willingly and purposefully purchase on a somewhat regular basis. Many movies can be purchased with a digital copy of the movie. I can choose which source of the digital copy I want. I can redeem this code in iTunes or google play and sometimes a different source. The point is that there is already precedent set in the digital age for purchase of a "hard copy" and receiving a digital copy. Any comparisons to older media such as VHS to DVD is ridiculous and would only be valid if people were wanting this for any previous version of D&D. Since 5e has been released in the digital age and people are wanting this for any future purchases instead of old purchase the argument of older content receiving the same treatment is invalid.
What I feel people are upset about with the current business model is how many times someone has to purchase the content. I imagine that WotC charged the digital sites a certain amount of money for the right to use the books. These companies recoup the money spent purchasing the rights to digitally create the books and run everything by making the players repurchase everything so they have access to it digitally. Listening to the Official Dungeons and Dragons podcast has informed me that WotC most likely has all of the books in some format digitally. I can't imagine that it would be a whole lot more work to format that information into the way each website uses it. I'm not a programmer by any stretch, but if it's created one way it should be able to be imported into something else.
But this wasn't released in the digital age. The PHB was released without anything digital. So if you want digital PHB, you have to pay again.