Observed: Add 1.55 gold pieces to character. Character currency is updated +1 gp. Expected: Add 1.55 gold pieces to character. Character currency is updated +1 gp, +5 sp, +5 cp.
Observed: Character has 1 gp, 0 sp. Subtract 1 sp. No change in character currency value. Expected: Character has 1 gp, 0 sp. Subtract 1 sp. Currency values updated to 0 gp, 9sp.
The system tracks coins individually. To add money you specify yourself how many of each coin you got. Many DMs don't phrase loot as "1.55 gold", they'll tell you which amount of which coins. They could say 12 silver, for instance, instead of 1.2 gold or 1 gold 2 silver.
This isn't a bug. It's an intentional design feature to match how the rules say coinage works. It may not be to your preference, sure, but it's actually useful for those of us who track individual coins as the game rules recommend.
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The only change that I would like to see for the currency tracker is the ability to add and subtract coins at the same time (to make change and conversion more streamline, no "did I already add the 10sp back?").
The tracker behaves exactly as expected from a real world/role playing perspective. You can't tear a dollar into dimes, you have to give the dollar and receive change back.
You have to consider that there are multiple variations of coins that add up to the same value. It tracks individual coins, not total wealth like a video game.
Nothing about fixing this deficiency would inhibit the current functionality that you enjoy.
If you want to enter 1 gp, 2 sp, you still can.
But the system should be able to accommodate the entry as 1.2 gp as well, because handling numeric transformations is literally the reason computers exist at all.
It comes down to the fact that many people (myself included) think of currency in decimals, e.g. $1.55 because I've never seen a price tag that said: 1 dollar, 5 dimes, and 5 pennies.
The problem is that 1.2gp can be paid in at least 30 different combinations of coins. And change can be given over 200 different ways depending on what coins you pay with (only 17 ways if you don't use platinum. 8.8gp has too many combinations for me to do in my head).
And that is just for something cheap, the coin combinations increase exponentially as price goes up.
At the very least, it is not a bug. If you want subtract 1gp, 5sp, and 5cp, then fill all those coin values.
it's an interesting idea - that requires a more complex solution than you may realise.
Below is a screenshot from one of my characters. The character has a total wealth value of 56 gold.
That's great to know, because when I am heading to the store to purchase something, I know what I can afford.
You'll notice though, that on our adventure we looted a goblin camp that had 1,000 copper pieces and divided it amongst the party, so I actually have 250 copper. I have 86 silver too, from looting other encounters.
If I were to request that the DDB character sheet remove 1.55 gp, how would you suggest that the system approached it?
Remove 1 gp seems obvious, but what about the 0.55? That's 55 silver right? What if I wanted to get rid of all that copper though? 250 cp is equal to 25 sp which is equal to 2.5 gp, so I could pay for the whole amount of 1.55 gp by using 155 cp.
I'm not saying that what you're suggesting isn't possible, but I am saying that the system was designed on purpose to not work the way you have suggested, so that it models the way the game works.
If anyone has suggestions on how we can improve the character sheet, we're absolutely open to them - this needs more information though on how you believe it could work please. 😀
If I were to request that the DDB character sheet remove 1.55 gp, how would you suggest that the system approached it?
Here's how I would design that.
There are two main user cases here: 1. The user who cares about the exact coin composition of their inventory. 2. The user who only cares about the total value of coins in their inventory.
The ideal design for this system will handle both user styles.
In the case you propose, what I, as a designer, would do, is assume that the user's input is telling me what they care about.
A user who asks the system to subtract 1.55 gold pieces falls into category 2. If the user specifically wanted to remove 15 silver and 5 copper, or 155 copper, or some other combination of coins, then the user could have done that, but they did not, which means they don't care about that.
For the operational design, the system would run from top to bottom in a very logical order, subtracting from the currency field selected first, then working down. In this case, entering "1.55" in the gold field, the selected field is gold, so it would subtract 1 gold. Then it'd drop down to silver and subtract as much as possible (5), and then down to copper and subtract 5. The system can ignore any entry that is a fraction of a copper piece.
This logic also would allow the system to respond to inputs that exceed the value of the selected currency field, instead of just ignoring the input (without even an error message) as it does now. So if the user has 10 gold and 200 silver, and asks to remove 11 gold, the system would remove 10 gold and then remove 10 silver, to accomplish what the user has asked.
All this works fine in reverse as well, receiving coins in the selected currency until the value falls below a single coin, then dropping the decimals into their appropriate categories below.
Having spent about fifteen minutes designing this system, I may have missed a corner case (like the system needs to be able to "make change" when it hits a lower field with insufficient currency), but this is a perfectly viable design and the math is very straightforward. It covers the majority of user inputs as the user intends, and also corrects the current "quiet failure" the system experiences when it receives input it has no way to address due to being under-designed.
The thing that is still in question is whether this is necessary, and that is, of course, completely a matter of opinion. I find this sort of UX issue to be problematic, especially when dealing with currencies, and so I would prioritize it.
YMMV.
Brannon
PS: When the system can't do what you want, because you have insufficient currency, it should tell you that.
I would also like to add to this thread. When Purchasing equipment from a vendor, I have on my character 90 gold only. In the Currency window I added up all the values per coinage of the equipment to be removed/subtracted, roughly 15 gold, 25 silver, and 5 copper to be removed. I expected a result of 72 gold, 4 silver, and 5 copper to be left in my Currency window.... but all it did was remove the 15 gold from the 90 thus leaving me with 75 gold.
It is a currency tracker, not a currency calculator. It would be nice if there was at least a dialogue box or notice that told us what adjustments it was and wasn't able to accomplish though.
It would be even betrer if the dialogue box asked us what coins we would like to substitute for the decimal or remainder.
Even as a tracker, given that it is a digital character sheet to make using your character easier, when someone is playing a game and they buy something for 5 silver, and they go to 'remove' 5 silver from their list, but only has 1 gold in their currency, the tracker should be basically smart enough to perform that conversion for the player without the player having to remove the gold, do the math for themselves, and then add back in the silver.
It is digital, but it represents physical. You can't subtract 5 from 0, nor can you squeeze 5 dimes out of a dollar. You have to subtract 1 dollar, then add 5 dimes back.
I'm not saying it couldn't be more advanced or that it shouldn't be more advanced, just that it never claimed to ba able to do conversions for you (in fact it has reminders of the conversions so you can do it).
I so agree, it could use some improvement. I've even suggested some of my ideas.
Indeed, if only we had a machine that could do these calculations quickly and easily for us. Perhaps someone will invent a machine that can do math; could you imagine such a thing?! Until then I suppose We will just have to do it ourselves.
Indeed, if only we had a machine that could do these calculations quickly and easily for us. Perhaps someone will invent a machine that can do math; could you imagine such a thing?! Until then I suppose We will just have to do it ourselves.
The math is the easy part. As Stormknight and I have both mentioned, coin distribution/ratio is both more complicated and requires a decision. That is why I suggested a dialogue box, so that decision is not taken from the player.
Observed: Add 1.55 gold pieces to character. Character currency is updated +1 gp.
Expected: Add 1.55 gold pieces to character. Character currency is updated +1 gp, +5 sp, +5 cp.
Observed: Character has 1 gp, 0 sp. Subtract 1 sp. No change in character currency value.
Expected: Character has 1 gp, 0 sp. Subtract 1 sp. Currency values updated to 0 gp, 9sp.
The system tracks coins individually. To add money you specify yourself how many of each coin you got. Many DMs don't phrase loot as "1.55 gold", they'll tell you which amount of which coins. They could say 12 silver, for instance, instead of 1.2 gold or 1 gold 2 silver.
This isn't a bug. It's an intentional design feature to match how the rules say coinage works. It may not be to your preference, sure, but it's actually useful for those of us who track individual coins as the game rules recommend.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
The only change that I would like to see for the currency tracker is the ability to add and subtract coins at the same time (to make change and conversion more streamline, no "did I already add the 10sp back?").
The tracker behaves exactly as expected from a real world/role playing perspective. You can't tear a dollar into dimes, you have to give the dollar and receive change back.
You have to consider that there are multiple variations of coins that add up to the same value. It tracks individual coins, not total wealth like a video game.
Nothing about fixing this deficiency would inhibit the current functionality that you enjoy.
If you want to enter 1 gp, 2 sp, you still can.
But the system should be able to accommodate the entry as 1.2 gp as well, because handling numeric transformations is literally the reason computers exist at all.
It comes down to the fact that many people (myself included) think of currency in decimals, e.g. $1.55 because I've never seen a price tag that said: 1 dollar, 5 dimes, and 5 pennies.
The problem is that 1.2gp can be paid in at least 30 different combinations of coins. And change can be given over 200 different ways depending on what coins you pay with (only 17 ways if you don't use platinum. 8.8gp has too many combinations for me to do in my head).
And that is just for something cheap, the coin combinations increase exponentially as price goes up.
At the very least, it is not a bug. If you want subtract 1gp, 5sp, and 5cp, then fill all those coin values.
Hi there Brannon,
it's an interesting idea - that requires a more complex solution than you may realise.
Below is a screenshot from one of my characters. The character has a total wealth value of 56 gold.
That's great to know, because when I am heading to the store to purchase something, I know what I can afford.
You'll notice though, that on our adventure we looted a goblin camp that had 1,000 copper pieces and divided it amongst the party, so I actually have 250 copper. I have 86 silver too, from looting other encounters.
If I were to request that the DDB character sheet remove 1.55 gp, how would you suggest that the system approached it?
Remove 1 gp seems obvious, but what about the 0.55? That's 55 silver right? What if I wanted to get rid of all that copper though? 250 cp is equal to 25 sp which is equal to 2.5 gp, so I could pay for the whole amount of 1.55 gp by using 155 cp.
I'm not saying that what you're suggesting isn't possible, but I am saying that the system was designed on purpose to not work the way you have suggested, so that it models the way the game works.
If anyone has suggestions on how we can improve the character sheet, we're absolutely open to them - this needs more information though on how you believe it could work please. 😀
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Here's how I would design that.
There are two main user cases here:
1. The user who cares about the exact coin composition of their inventory.
2. The user who only cares about the total value of coins in their inventory.
The ideal design for this system will handle both user styles.
In the case you propose, what I, as a designer, would do, is assume that the user's input is telling me what they care about.
A user who asks the system to subtract 1.55 gold pieces falls into category 2.
If the user specifically wanted to remove 15 silver and 5 copper, or 155 copper, or some other combination of coins, then the user could have done that, but they did not, which means they don't care about that.
For the operational design, the system would run from top to bottom in a very logical order, subtracting from the currency field selected first, then working down. In this case, entering "1.55" in the gold field, the selected field is gold, so it would subtract 1 gold. Then it'd drop down to silver and subtract as much as possible (5), and then down to copper and subtract 5. The system can ignore any entry that is a fraction of a copper piece.
This logic also would allow the system to respond to inputs that exceed the value of the selected currency field, instead of just ignoring the input (without even an error message) as it does now. So if the user has 10 gold and 200 silver, and asks to remove 11 gold, the system would remove 10 gold and then remove 10 silver, to accomplish what the user has asked.
All this works fine in reverse as well, receiving coins in the selected currency until the value falls below a single coin, then dropping the decimals into their appropriate categories below.
Having spent about fifteen minutes designing this system, I may have missed a corner case (like the system needs to be able to "make change" when it hits a lower field with insufficient currency), but this is a perfectly viable design and the math is very straightforward. It covers the majority of user inputs as the user intends, and also corrects the current "quiet failure" the system experiences when it receives input it has no way to address due to being under-designed.
The thing that is still in question is whether this is necessary, and that is, of course, completely a matter of opinion. I find this sort of UX issue to be problematic, especially when dealing with currencies, and so I would prioritize it.
YMMV.
Brannon
PS: When the system can't do what you want, because you have insufficient currency, it should tell you that.
I would also like to add to this thread. When Purchasing equipment from a vendor, I have on my character 90 gold only. In the Currency window I added up all the values per coinage of the equipment to be removed/subtracted, roughly 15 gold, 25 silver, and 5 copper to be removed. I expected a result of 72 gold, 4 silver, and 5 copper to be left in my Currency window.... but all it did was remove the 15 gold from the 90 thus leaving me with 75 gold.
It is a currency tracker, not a currency calculator. It would be nice if there was at least a dialogue box or notice that told us what adjustments it was and wasn't able to accomplish though.
It would be even betrer if the dialogue box asked us what coins we would like to substitute for the decimal or remainder.
Even as a tracker, given that it is a digital character sheet to make using your character easier, when someone is playing a game and they buy something for 5 silver, and they go to 'remove' 5 silver from their list, but only has 1 gold in their currency, the tracker should be basically smart enough to perform that conversion for the player without the player having to remove the gold, do the math for themselves, and then add back in the silver.
It is digital, but it represents physical. You can't subtract 5 from 0, nor can you squeeze 5 dimes out of a dollar. You have to subtract 1 dollar, then add 5 dimes back.
I'm not saying it couldn't be more advanced or that it shouldn't be more advanced, just that it never claimed to ba able to do conversions for you (in fact it has reminders of the conversions so you can do it).
I so agree, it could use some improvement. I've even suggested some of my ideas.
Indeed, if only we had a machine that could do these calculations quickly and easily for us. Perhaps someone will invent a machine that can do math; could you imagine such a thing?! Until then I suppose We will just have to do it ourselves.
The math is the easy part. As Stormknight and I have both mentioned, coin distribution/ratio is both more complicated and requires a decision. That is why I suggested a dialogue box, so that decision is not taken from the player.