There haven't been any updates (you can watch the Dev Update twitch, or catch the VOD or Youtube upload for latest dev news).
As for tips on homebrewing sidekicks, I'll create a copy of the monster I want to turn into a sidekick, then copy the traits over and adjust the ability scores per level. The key thing to keep an eye on is how changing abilities will affect the modifiers
The thing that bugged me most was they said they were not going to do Custom Lineage.... and yet they put that ahead of sidekicks.... My group is dying to play just sidekicks.
I can understand that, but I’m also aware that a sidekick system is far more complex than custom lineage is.
Wow the fact this sidekick functionality is in The Dragon of Icespire Peak (heartily recommended as a first adventure) has really made life tricky for a newb DM such as myself. Had to wrestle with CritterDB and Avrae to get something to kinda work!
Wow the fact this sidekick functionality is in The Dragon of Icespire Peak (heartily recommended as a first adventure) has really made life tricky for a newb DM such as myself. Had to wrestle with CritterDB and Avrae to get something to kinda work!
fortunately the DoIP sidekicks are available as monster statblocks here, although there may well be some limitations to using them. But the newer sidekick rules (from Tasha's) are not yet supported.
Curious why you think implementing Sidekicks from Tasha's is very complex. Not being argumentative truly just curious if I am missing something.
To me there is two parts: First there are three new classes but there is nothing special about them that would require any new functionality at all. For example, if you wanted a sidekick of a current playable race, like in DoIP, then it should just be new content in the existing classes framework. I think this could give us non-creature sidekicks with very little work.
Second part would be allowing you to choose sidekick creatures as a race. I imagine this as a selection of classic playable race or Sidekick Creature during character creation. Then once selecting Sidekick Creature you would select from a list of the 1/2 cr creatures and below then after selecting them certain steps like ability scores would get defaulted to the creature block stats versus rolling for them. Also, limiting the class selection with these sidekick characters to only the 3 sidekick classes.
I think most resistances, immunities, and special actions would fit within the options we see in the current subclass creation. Probably would need some enhancements but it doesn't seem like a lot.
Maybe I am missing something here so let me know your thoughts on this being complex. There certainly are other approaches for implementing them that could vastly change things.
Curious why you think implementing Sidekicks from Tasha's is very complex. Not being argumentative truly just curious if I am missing something.
... [some comments removed just to shorten length of post]
Maybe I am missing something here so let me know your thoughts on this being complex. There certainly are other approaches for implementing them that could vastly change things.
Partly I think it is complex because staff had said so. But here are the things I can see as creating complexity:
-if sidekicks are created using the character builder, how are they added to "extras" or in some other way added to another character? And how to you also let them be used as NPCs, viewable only to the DM, and let them be shared between PCs? (all officially suggested uses of sidekicks)
-all the eligible monsters would have to be converted to "races" but made available only to sidekicks, and coded for what sidekick classes they are eligible for
-As part of the conversion of monster stat blocks to "races," all their attack actions, which are currently just text (with a bit of "code" to allow dice rolling), would have to be converted/rewritten into some sort of "code" or format that allows the creation of attack info in the attack to show up in the "attacks' section of the character sheet.
-sidekick classes don't have subclasses, unless you consider the Spellcaster sidekick's "role" a subclass; I don't know if the current character builder/sheet can handle no subclasses beyond a certain point. (I don't know that it can't either)
-They (probably) have to figure out how let someone build a sidekick from one of the playable races, but not all playable races have monster statblocks, and some only have very specific monster statbocks. (like the wood-elf scout, or the halfling musician). This means pulling in the rules/guidelines from the DMG about applying racial characteristics to NPC statblocks, which would result in yet another system that needs to be built out. (A system I'd love to see, especially if it were designed so it can be applied to monster/NPC statblocks)
-then there's the whole question of whether the sidekicks would be built in the current builder or as a separate process. I would think, given how different sidekicks are from regular PCs, and how you don't want race/classes to bleed from one, it would need to be a separate process/system. But that system wold also need to feed into the encounter builder/combat tracker, and we would need to mark it there as friend or foe (something that is needed even aside from sidekicks) And you would need to be able to add them to campaigns, and ideally mark them as viewable or not to players.
-some sort of calculation would need to be done in terms of their effect on encounter difficulty calculations. Is a level 4 sidekick the same power level as a level 4 PC? Even more problematically, if the sidekick is a foe and not a friend/ally, how is their level converted to CR? (This last question is part of why we can't currently designate "monsters" as allies; there is of official way to convert CR to level or vice versa)
-the existing system is already complex, and anything they build needs to be able to integrate with all that complexity; the more they add and the more it is integrated, the more complex it gets.
Note that they do plan to create such a system eventually. The challenge is that there are LOTS of systems and features they need/want to build. There are things from books older than Tasha's that haven't been supported yet. They are constantly having to prioritize what gets worked on next. From comments made by staff over the years, some (but not all) of the factors in deciding that are: how easy/complex the task is, whether not there is a workaround that exists, and how much "demand" there is for the feature.
Yeah, these sidekicks are a doozy. I wonder if it would be easier to create them all as a series of overlapping templates? I already combine races with statblocks for stuff and it’s tedious. I’m currently just trying to work through the PHB base/sub/variant races (and a few from Volo’s) of commoner for my own convenience, but man it sure would be swell if I could just apply a half-elf template to a commoner, champion, bandit, etc. template. Wouldn’t that work towards sidekicks too?
Yeah, these sidekicks are a doozy. I wonder if it would be easier to create them all as a series of overlapping templates? I already combine races with statblocks for stuff and it’s tedious. I’m currently just trying to work through the PHB base/sub/variant races (and a few from Volo’s) of commoner for my own convenience, but man it sure would be swell if I could just apply a half-elf template to a commoner, champion, bandit, etc. template. Wouldn’t that work towards sidekicks too?
Back when Adam was still with DDB, he talked several times about hopes for a "monster builder" feature that would--among other things--let you apply templates like that. I haven't heard anything about it since Adam left, and maybe not even in the last year or so that Adam was part of DDB. So I have no idea if that's even still on the longterm roadmap. It certainly was never "near term". And you and I both know how much WOTC has thrown at them in the way of new mechanics since that was last raised as something in the "eventually" section of the roadmap. But yeah, it would be great, and it would apply (hopefully) to both sidekicks and to NPCs.
I think the current thought of a sidekick being an extra is just wrong. If a party of three adds a sidekick, that sidekick is an independent character even if "connected" to one player in an RP sense. If that connected character dies after months of in game play technically the other two players now also meet the requirement for "knowing the sidekick" and the sidekick could be "attached" to either of them without a systemic connection in DDB.
I currently have players in my campaign that have two independent characters (the second being an underlings) that they can play as the scene shifts to another location. I do not see too much issues with a sidekick being it's own character, in the way I play at least.
Since the players in my campaign control the sidekicks during battle I don't think there is anything on a character sheet I would want hidden to them. If I want to surprise them with backstory or something those elements are just not included on the sheet until publicly known.
My whole assumption of being less complex implies they use the current character builder. I do agree there is lots of content to add with all the creature attack actions. I've been in software development for 25 years. I do not know their framework or code but I have done lots of projects where content is scraped and consolidated. So recursively gathering all the text actions from cr 1/2 and under and then parsing it to common action blocks is work but not huge in my humble opinion.
-the existing system is already complex, and anything they build needs to be able to integrate with all that complexity; the more they add and the more it is integrated, the more complex it gets.
This is another reason I lean towards using the existing character builder and framework. If only the "content" of a character is changing and the tool to build that content the integration efforts and impacts are minimized.
Can't argue with their devs though, so if they say it is complex it is either because they are trying to build something new or there is more involved with reusing the char builder.
I just started some solo play with a wizard tonite and I wanted to add a Sidekick I downloaded from Homebrew to the party. However, Sidekicks are categorized as monsters, like NPCs are, so not possible.
What's needed is a way to add monsters (NPCs and Sidekicks) to the party as characters.
I just started some solo play with a wizard tonite and I wanted to add a Sidekick I downloaded from Homebrew to the party. However, Sidekicks are categorized as monsters, like NPCs are, so not possible.
What's needed is a way to add monsters (NPCs and Sidekicks) to the party as characters.
I agree that a dedicated sidekick system needs to be developed. In the mean-time, if a particular player (who has a “‘full” character) will be running the sidekick, they can add them to their main character sheet via Extras. (Add a miscellaneous, not as sidekick, as that option is for the Dragon of Icespire Peak sidekicks)
Come on guys, it's not like Tasha just came out, I bought it here on Beyond, I'd like to use the sidekick feature it introduced in my character sheet, here on Beyond.
I sure hope this is coming soon. I needed it as of last week when I started teaching D&D at a school. The younger kids really can't use the "full" classes, so I need the sidekick classes to be available in a character builder.
Also, I need for kids as young as 7 to be able to have accounts. Separate issue, but a biggie.
Also, I need for kids as young as 7 to be able to have accounts. Separate issue, but a biggie.
This is incredibly unlikely due to the terms of service of D&D Beyond prohibiting use by under 13s (and this also being a legal requirement for some regions of the world)
Also, I need for kids as young as 7 to be able to have accounts. Separate issue, but a biggie.
This is incredibly unlikely due to the terms of service of D&D Beyond prohibiting use by under 13s (and this also being a legal requirement for some regions of the world)
Exactly the problem. How can we fix this absurdity? Would it require that some content be marked as 'mature' and have filtering?
I would much rather my 11 year old wanna-be dungeon master be using DDB to create homebrew monsters and run campaigns than watching other kids playing video games on youtube.
And I would hugely prefer that the campaigns I run at a school, as official classes, be able to use the online character sheets than paper.
Also, I need for kids as young as 7 to be able to have accounts. Separate issue, but a biggie.
This is incredibly unlikely due to the terms of service of D&D Beyond prohibiting use by under 13s (and this also being a legal requirement for some regions of the world)
Exactly the problem. How can we fix this absurdity? Would it require that some content be marked as 'mature' and have filtering?
I would much rather my 11 year old wanna-be dungeon master be using DDB to create homebrew monsters and run campaigns than watching other kids playing video games on youtube.
And I would hugely prefer that the campaigns I run at a school, as official classes, be able to use the online character sheets than paper.
This "absurdity" is a legal matter beyond the control of D&D Beyond.
I can understand that, but I’m also aware that a sidekick system is far more complex than custom lineage is.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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I won't fight that it isn't that easy.
All the monsters under a certain CR can be a sidekick with levels in mundane classes. A serious piece of work. I just want it so bad.....
Wow the fact this sidekick functionality is in The Dragon of Icespire Peak (heartily recommended as a first adventure) has really made life tricky for a newb DM such as myself. Had to wrestle with CritterDB and Avrae to get something to kinda work!
fortunately the DoIP sidekicks are available as monster statblocks here, although there may well be some limitations to using them. But the newer sidekick rules (from Tasha's) are not yet supported.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk
ArwensDaughter,
Curious why you think implementing Sidekicks from Tasha's is very complex. Not being argumentative truly just curious if I am missing something.
To me there is two parts:
First there are three new classes but there is nothing special about them that would require any new functionality at all. For example, if you wanted a sidekick of a current playable race, like in DoIP, then it should just be new content in the existing classes framework. I think this could give us non-creature sidekicks with very little work.
Second part would be allowing you to choose sidekick creatures as a race. I imagine this as a selection of classic playable race or Sidekick Creature during character creation. Then once selecting Sidekick Creature you would select from a list of the 1/2 cr creatures and below then after selecting them certain steps like ability scores would get defaulted to the creature block stats versus rolling for them. Also, limiting the class selection with these sidekick characters to only the 3 sidekick classes.
I think most resistances, immunities, and special actions would fit within the options we see in the current subclass creation. Probably would need some enhancements but it doesn't seem like a lot.
Maybe I am missing something here so let me know your thoughts on this being complex. There certainly are other approaches for implementing them that could vastly change things.
Partly I think it is complex because staff had said so. But here are the things I can see as creating complexity:
-if sidekicks are created using the character builder, how are they added to "extras" or in some other way added to another character? And how to you also let them be used as NPCs, viewable only to the DM, and let them be shared between PCs? (all officially suggested uses of sidekicks)
-all the eligible monsters would have to be converted to "races" but made available only to sidekicks, and coded for what sidekick classes they are eligible for
-As part of the conversion of monster stat blocks to "races," all their attack actions, which are currently just text (with a bit of "code" to allow dice rolling), would have to be converted/rewritten into some sort of "code" or format that allows the creation of attack info in the attack to show up in the "attacks' section of the character sheet.
-sidekick classes don't have subclasses, unless you consider the Spellcaster sidekick's "role" a subclass; I don't know if the current character builder/sheet can handle no subclasses beyond a certain point. (I don't know that it can't either)
-They (probably) have to figure out how let someone build a sidekick from one of the playable races, but not all playable races have monster statblocks, and some only have very specific monster statbocks. (like the wood-elf scout, or the halfling musician). This means pulling in the rules/guidelines from the DMG about applying racial characteristics to NPC statblocks, which would result in yet another system that needs to be built out. (A system I'd love to see, especially if it were designed so it can be applied to monster/NPC statblocks)
-then there's the whole question of whether the sidekicks would be built in the current builder or as a separate process. I would think, given how different sidekicks are from regular PCs, and how you don't want race/classes to bleed from one, it would need to be a separate process/system. But that system wold also need to feed into the encounter builder/combat tracker, and we would need to mark it there as friend or foe (something that is needed even aside from sidekicks) And you would need to be able to add them to campaigns, and ideally mark them as viewable or not to players.
-some sort of calculation would need to be done in terms of their effect on encounter difficulty calculations. Is a level 4 sidekick the same power level as a level 4 PC? Even more problematically, if the sidekick is a foe and not a friend/ally, how is their level converted to CR? (This last question is part of why we can't currently designate "monsters" as allies; there is of official way to convert CR to level or vice versa)
-the existing system is already complex, and anything they build needs to be able to integrate with all that complexity; the more they add and the more it is integrated, the more complex it gets.
Note that they do plan to create such a system eventually. The challenge is that there are LOTS of systems and features they need/want to build. There are things from books older than Tasha's that haven't been supported yet. They are constantly having to prioritize what gets worked on next. From comments made by staff over the years, some (but not all) of the factors in deciding that are: how easy/complex the task is, whether not there is a workaround that exists, and how much "demand" there is for the feature.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk
Yeah, these sidekicks are a doozy. I wonder if it would be easier to create them all as a series of overlapping templates? I already combine races with statblocks for stuff and it’s tedious. I’m currently just trying to work through the PHB base/sub/variant races (and a few from Volo’s) of commoner for my own convenience, but man it sure would be swell if I could just apply a half-elf template to a commoner, champion, bandit, etc. template. Wouldn’t that work towards sidekicks too?
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Back when Adam was still with DDB, he talked several times about hopes for a "monster builder" feature that would--among other things--let you apply templates like that. I haven't heard anything about it since Adam left, and maybe not even in the last year or so that Adam was part of DDB. So I have no idea if that's even still on the longterm roadmap. It certainly was never "near term". And you and I both know how much WOTC has thrown at them in the way of new mechanics since that was last raised as something in the "eventually" section of the roadmap. But yeah, it would be great, and it would apply (hopefully) to both sidekicks and to NPCs.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk
Fingers crossed they think so too and it has been moved up. 🤞
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Very good points!
I think the current thought of a sidekick being an extra is just wrong. If a party of three adds a sidekick, that sidekick is an independent character even if "connected" to one player in an RP sense. If that connected character dies after months of in game play technically the other two players now also meet the requirement for "knowing the sidekick" and the sidekick could be "attached" to either of them without a systemic connection in DDB.
I currently have players in my campaign that have two independent characters (the second being an underlings) that they can play as the scene shifts to another location. I do not see too much issues with a sidekick being it's own character, in the way I play at least.
Since the players in my campaign control the sidekicks during battle I don't think there is anything on a character sheet I would want hidden to them. If I want to surprise them with backstory or something those elements are just not included on the sheet until publicly known.
My whole assumption of being less complex implies they use the current character builder. I do agree there is lots of content to add with all the creature attack actions. I've been in software development for 25 years. I do not know their framework or code but I have done lots of projects where content is scraped and consolidated. So recursively gathering all the text actions from cr 1/2 and under and then parsing it to common action blocks is work but not huge in my humble opinion.
This is another reason I lean towards using the existing character builder and framework. If only the "content" of a character is changing and the tool to build that content the integration efforts and impacts are minimized.
Can't argue with their devs though, so if they say it is complex it is either because they are trying to build something new or there is more involved with reusing the char builder.
Good convo, appreciate your thoughts!
I just started some solo play with a wizard tonite and I wanted to add a Sidekick I downloaded from Homebrew to the party. However, Sidekicks are categorized as monsters, like NPCs are, so not possible.
What's needed is a way to add monsters (NPCs and Sidekicks) to the party as characters.
I agree that a dedicated sidekick system needs to be developed. In the mean-time, if a particular player (who has a “‘full” character) will be running the sidekick, they can add them to their main character sheet via Extras. (Add a miscellaneous, not as sidekick, as that option is for the Dragon of Icespire Peak sidekicks)
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk
Ok, thank you. I will do that.
I'm getting the feeling that sidekicks will arrive the same update as spell points....
Any update?
Come on guys, it's not like Tasha just came out, I bought it here on Beyond, I'd like to use the sidekick feature it introduced in my character sheet, here on Beyond.
I sure hope this is coming soon. I needed it as of last week when I started teaching D&D at a school. The younger kids really can't use the "full" classes, so I need the sidekick classes to be available in a character builder.
Also, I need for kids as young as 7 to be able to have accounts. Separate issue, but a biggie.
This is incredibly unlikely due to the terms of service of D&D Beyond prohibiting use by under 13s (and this also being a legal requirement for some regions of the world)
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Exactly the problem. How can we fix this absurdity? Would it require that some content be marked as 'mature' and have filtering?
I would much rather my 11 year old wanna-be dungeon master be using DDB to create homebrew monsters and run campaigns than watching other kids playing video games on youtube.
And I would hugely prefer that the campaigns I run at a school, as official classes, be able to use the online character sheets than paper.
This "absurdity" is a legal matter beyond the control of D&D Beyond.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here