I did vote, but I was wondering: how do you make a poll on this site? I've had a couple of topics I'd like to make polls on, but I don't know how. Please help.
If you click the "new thread" button to create your thread, it'll show an "add a poll" button down left.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
A query, Midnight, as you seem to be in deep with this method.
Does this "discover backstory retroactively in play" method ever affect the course of the story? My usual reticence with the idea of just knowing absolutely shit-nothing about my character going in, beyond not having anything to go on for portraying the character, is that the GM then has nothing to go on for tying the character to the story. The character's background doesn't exist, thus the character's background is immaterial to the story, and thus the character itself is also immaterial to the story. There's a test one can run to see if their character matters to the tale they're running - ask yourself if the story being told at your table would change at all if your character woke up one day as something completely different. If you're playing an elven abjuration wizard of the Sage background, and you woke up one morning as a goliath Lycan order blood hunter of the Soldier background (and nobody went 'WHAT THE **** HAPPENED?' but simply accepted it), would anything at all in the course of your game change?
If the answer is "No", then your character doesn't matter to the story you're telling, and I wonder why you're playing that game at all.
I maintain that a good backstory poses questions the GM can use as plot hooks, decides your motivation for adventuring, and gives you a seed to start with. Anything more is usually overdoing it and generally has to be at GM discretion, but anything less generally means your character doesn't matter to the game at all. Some old school players are about to post "yeah, so? That's the point!" at me, and sure - some people like knowing they can play a disposable hero with no relevance to the world that they can socket in a replacement for in a matter of minutes should that character die.
But man...that seems like a lonely and unpleasant way to play to me.
With permission, I would like to chime in on this. Toots and Tommary are both “discover during play” characters for the most part. I had picked Urchin, so I had a rough idea of things because being a homeless child of a “minority race” (Hin) in the pseudomedieval D&D version of a Judge Dredd style megacity is gonna have some predictable elements. Yeah, I clicked the trait that says she asks a ton of questions, and the one says she eats like a pig. I picked the bond says she sponsors an orphanage, and the flaw says she will grab every scrimp of gold she can. But I didn’t invent the Clementines until I made that post. So now there’s a childless Hin thrupple in which the two husbands took on their wife’s surname and the three have opened their personal home up and turned it into an orphanage, while simultaneously starting a combination culinary trade school/soup kitchen so that the youths they board can learn a trade that they can live off of while simultaneously feeding the indigent of Cliffside. Cliffside was (AFAIK) just a name Wysp picked. Now (at least for our group) it’s a vertical megacity built around a series of locks that scale the cliff to connect canals at top and bottom. I don’t even have any idea where the canals go, but they have a backstory longer than my PC did when the campaign started. There are two holidays that didn’t exist before, and they both have holiday traditions decades (or longer) older than the campaign. And that’s just from my end. Midnight’s done just as much. (Heck, those “archives” are the oldest things in that world that I know of.) So you tell me, are Toots and Tommary “immaterial” to that campaign? You tell me, am I having fun playing Toots? Am I enjoying discovering who she is along with the rest of you?
How about this:
What did Han Solo’s backstory have eff all to do with A New Hope? The only reason he had a backstory was so he could blow Greedo away in the cantina. The only reason he did that was so the audience could see for themselves that he was a shifty, badass pirate willing to shoot first. In fact, the entire main cast of characters for the entire core franchise were “discover during play” characters, that’s why Luke & Leia made out before their backstory as siblings was invented later, and they just kinda ignored the softcore incest after that.
What did Lt. John McClane‘s backstory have to do with America’s favorite Christmas movie other than give him an excuse to be in the wrong place at the right time? (Yippee-ki-yay [Expletive]-[Explative] 😉)
What did Bilbo Baggins’ backstory have to do with the quest to liberate Erebor (or at least it’s treasure) from Smaug?
What did Dutch’s backstory have to do with that final, fated mission to Central America other than give his team an excuse to be in the wrong place at the right time?
What did Ripley’s backstory have to do with that ship responding to that distress call other than give her an excuse to be on that ship when it happened?
Are you gonna tell me that any of 👆those characters were unimportant or “immaterial” to their stories? ‘Cause… those all developed into franchises.
I get it that you need to feel that your character is “bespoke” and in some way “integral” or “destined” for something important to the stories in which they participate. I like to play characters like that too from time to time.* But sometimes it’s also fun to discover who your PC is along the way, like Toots. It isn’t always about that ending the character is destined to reach, the journey of discovery is equally fulfilling. And sometimes a little half & half is nice too, like an Arnold Palmer of role playing, just a wee bit of backstory to build upon, and the rest a journey of discovery.** Other times it’s fun to flesh out who they were, and how they got to where they are, but with absolutely no expectation that any of it will ever be in any way relevant to the story at hand.*** My point is that there are many ways to enjoy a character, and many different levels of involvement they might have with any given story. But that they then become integral to the story through the process. A character can absolutely start fleshed out and with tie-ins the DM can use (or not use) and there’s merit to that approach. But a character can also start out as a relatively blank slate, and evolve into one of the most fun characters you ever meet along the way. About half of the most fun characters I have ever played were like Toots, and about half of the most forgettable characters I have ever played were planned out.
I urge everyone to give it a shot at some point and try “meeting your own PC along the road.” You may like it, you may not, but the journey to even that discovery is bound to be interesting.
*; **; *** 👇 Backstories from some of my other PCs with certain similarities to Toots.
*Ellalladrille Ci'allandriall, “Bespoke Character” (Similarity: Urchin Background; Differences: High Elf, Male, Charlatan Background, Medium Creature) Starting Level: 9th
When I was still a baby, my parents moved us to a foreign city far away from the lands of our people. As a small child I had no idea that we were different than our neighbors. Gradually, as I got older, I began to notice the differences between myself and most of the other children. I was faster and more nimble than the other children. Rarely could they lay a hand on me in games of Catch Me. My eyes were keener than theirs as well. Rarely could they escape my notice in games of Seekers and Hiders. I regularly outpaced them all in games of climbing and sneaking as well. I could always tell which hand the kola nut was in, but my hands moved too fast for their notice. One day, while we were exploring some tunnels that we had found hidden between two abandoned buildings, the other children began to get frightened. It was dark, and while we had a candle, none of us had a tinderbox. Eager to explore, I used my other gift to light the candle. At first, the other children were frightened of me and ran away. Soon, they accused me of using my magic to cheat them at our games. Eventually most of the other children stopped asking me to play at all.
By the beginning of my second decade, a strange and terrible illness began to sweep through the city. Most people were unaffected, only the elven population seemed to be susceptible. For years, every winter many around the city would catch a variety of illnesses, and they would always speak enviously of how my family’s Elven blood protected us. That year, no one was envious of their Elven neighbors. Before my parents fell as the rest of our kind who had populated the city had, my parents made arrangements for me with their solicitor. After the funeral, the solicitor took me straight to the children’s home he had placed me in. I remember, I was still wearing my black lace.... The women who ran the home were nice enough. They were always sure that all of our needs were provided for as best they could. We never lacked for clothing, or food, or education. But the children.... Children can be very cruel. Eventually, they were cruel enough that I ran away, and somehow never went back.
The first year or so on the streets of the city was rough, but also interesting. The skills that had left me so alienated my whole life were to my advantage here. Where other urchins slowly starved, or got caught and beaten for stealing, I was able to procure for myself, and slip away unnoticed. I was soon discovering parts of the city that I doubt many others know about to this day. Interesting corners and eaves and out of the way places where two buildings almost meet. The tunnels underneath the city, a labyrinth of intentional structures built on top of and through the remains of older cities. Those highest rooftops where one could truly sleep just beneath the stars themselves.... There are nights I still go to those rooftops.
Eventually, some of the less fortunate children began to notice my success. They eventually realized that it was easier to take from me what they could not from the shopkeepers and vapid nobles’ sons. Like I said, children can be cruel. The next few years were easier. I was better able to see to myself and look out for the other children. They were also less interesting, as I was beginning to run out of places to explore safely enough all alone. But that fourth winter was bad. The cold was so extreme that to be out for more than a few minutes could mean the loss of toes or worse. And the wind never stopped howling for weeks, the sound of a predator joyous in the hunt. At first I was fairly secure with a supply of food and ale that I had laid up in a warm and secure nook within the tunnels where the heat from who knows where bled through the wall into a space that the world had forgotten. Things were okay for a week, then two weeks....
Eventually I was forced to go out for more food and water. Water was the hard part. Despite the cold there had been no snow, and the cold had been so strong for so long that liquid water was hard to come by, and dangerous to collect. If your fingers got wet, the frost could have bitten into them before you could stopper the skin again. You can live a long time without food, but water.... I ventured out from the warmth and safety of my hidden spot into the greater tunnels beyond. The cold was there waiting for me. As I ventured further into the darkness of the underground, even the biting wind from above seemed to scythe it’s way down into the world beneath the city. Soon, I had exhausted me search of the nearby network, and had resigned myself to attempt a brief trip above. I must have only made it about a dozen steps.
When I awoke, I was warm and clean and dry for the first time in years. The air around me smelled of fresh food, a delicious bitter aroma I had never known before, and the somehow familiar scent of chemicals and burnt metal that reminded me of my father. When I sat up, I was greeted by a face I vaguely recognized. He was very obviously Gnomish. His stature was small, but his proportions were a little off. His head was bald on top, but tufts of white stuck out several inches and in all directions in a sort of demi-halo around the sides and back of his head. His nose was almost bulbose on his tiny face, his head almost too large for someone barely three feet tall. His frame was tiny by comparison, save for the enormous potbelly in front of him. He was bedecked in an exquisitely expensive suit of grey wool with black pinstripes, and a wine colored brocade vest over a white collared shirt with a bootstring-tie clasped with a silver band.
“Good heavens boy, I thought you had died with your parents. Would you like some coffee?” It was my father’s old colleague, Doomagee Hermannsburge. As we spoke, I began to explore the room we were in. It was full of books and gadgets of all sorts. Bookshelves lined most of the walls from floor to ceiling. There was a set of glass vials and beakers bubbling away on a table in the corner. In another alcove there were half-finished pieces of weapons and armor set in racks. Finally I came upon a workstation I found piles of gears and springs and other mechanical pieces. It was there that I found a simple music box that played a familiar melody. It was a song my mother used to sing to me when I was little. Doomagee said that he had learned to make it by studying the one my father had made for my mother. Doomagee was kind enough to let me keep it. He took me in and raised me as his ward. He took note of my nimbleness and encouraged it. He took notice of my cleverness and honed it. He taught me the ways of the Artificer, as apparently my father had taught to him a century ago. And when I was ready, he enrolled me into The Society of Monitors, with whom I am enguilded To this day.
Sposta’s Note: You wanna talk about a character who’s backstory is intrinsic to the campaign? The whole campaign has so far been all about that “Society of Monitors.” That DM asked me what that was and I said “You tell me.” It was just a name I plucked out of thin air as a potential hook for him to use. (For all I knew it was a book club.)
** Bassil Wrathbone, “half & half” (Similarity: Bard base class; Differences: Half-Elf, Male, Charlatan Background, Medium Creature) Starting Level: 6th
When I was young my mother was accused of witchcraft by the local lord when he found out that he had gotten her pregnant during one of his dalliances. She was burned at the stake and I was left orphaned and penniless. Life on the streets was hard. I spent many a cold, hungry night imagining what I would say when one day I would finally confront the man responsible for mine and my mother’s fates.
I soon turned to begging and small cons to earn my daily bread. Eventually I caught the attention of a traveling troupe of players when I turned my talents upon them. They took me in and taught me their craft. Soon I made quite a name for myself by playing the villains and heels in their plays. It turned out I had quite a knack for tapping into the “essence” of villainy. I have spent so many performances playing a villain I’m afraid I might be starting to become one. Now I hope to use my talents to gain vengeance on the true villain who murdered my mother.
Sposta’s Note: This character’s background is two paragraphs longer than Toots’ was at first, now hers is at least twice this length, and far more detailed. (And more interesting IMO.)
*** Grotmaw “Ded-eye,” “fleshed out but irrelevant” (Similarity: Small size; Differences: Goblin, Male, Fighter, Mercenary Veteran) Starting Level: 1st
Grotmaw wuz yungest sun o’da Boss o’da Yella Ratfang Clan, Gobbo Glint Toof, on acounta he had da shiniest teef in da hole clan. But bein’ yungest sun ment dat Grotmaw wuz nevur gonna gonna get ears notched on acounta how many older brudders wuz aheda me. Evin wiv allada ded wuns outa da way, der wuz still too many still livin’ aheda me fer Grotmaw ta ever ern earnotches. So Grotmaw go ‘way.
Grotmaw went out inta’da wurld ta make sumthin’ fer me dat stinkin’ brudders couldn’t neva take. At furst it no go so good. People saw Grotmaw an’ wood start screemin’ an’ throwin’ stuffs. Is no good. But den, wun day sum soldirs noticed how good Grotmaw wuz wiv da crossbow an’ how sneeky sneeky Grotmaw can be so dey offured Grotmaw lotsa chrysós... gold. Dey sez dat Grotmaw can get lots gold, all I hadda do wuz sneek good an’ shoot peepul an’ dey pays Grotmaw. Grotmaw likes to sneek, is verry good at it. Grotmaw good at shootin’ peepul too. Grotmaw took job.
Grotmaw like job. Grotmaw got a shine uneeform, and wuz taut hawda march an’ stuffs. Grotmaw lernt dat marchin’ ‘round inna uneeform makes feemales like Grotmaw better. Is very good. Grotmaw wuz only a Privut in da Therd Scoutin’ ‘Toon. But purty soon Grotmaw got so good at shootin’ peepuls an’ stuffs dat da udder soldirs startid callin’ Grotmaw “Ded-eye” an’ Elf frend Sargent made Grotmaw a Curprul in da squad. Dat wuz how Grotmaw ernt his furst earnotch. Is verry verry good. Elf Sargent liked Grotmaw, so when frend Elf got ‘moted to Luftenat o’da secund Scoutin’ ‘Toon, he bring Grotmaw too to be Sargent o’da Furst Squad. Dat was how Grotmaw ernt secund earnotch.
Now Grotmaw haz too earnotches, an’ t’ree shine rings in hiz face made outta gold, wun fer each war Grotmaw fights in. Too bad dat da Captun wuz ded aftur dat, cuz den lotsa Grotmaw frends started’a take der gold an’ go find better Captuns ta fight fer. Finuly Luftenat friend Elf becum da Captun. Captun Elf frend sez to Grotmaw make Luftenat o’da Furst Scoutin’ ‘Toon. But furst Grotmaw wanna go back home an’ show stinkin’ brudders Grotmaw gots earnotched an’ face shines outta chrysús. Maybe shoot sum o’dem too. Me not kno yet. Den maybe Grotmaw go back an’ be Luftenat wiv new, not-stinky brudders in da Black Falcun Cumpny.
Sposta’s Note: Sorry folks, I understand the goblinesque phonetic spelling is difficult for some people. If you are having a hard time, reading it out loud helps because then you can hear the phonetic pronunciation and the words make sense.
I did vote, but I was wondering: how do you make a poll on this site? I've had a couple of topics I'd like to make polls on, but I don't know how. Please help.
If you click the "new thread" button to create your thread, it'll show an "add a poll" button down left.
It must not be supported on mobile....TO THE LAPTOP!!!
A query, Midnight, as you seem to be in deep with this method.
Does this "discover backstory retroactively in play" method ever affect the course of the story? My usual reticence with the idea of just knowing absolutely shit-nothing about my character going in, beyond not having anything to go on for portraying the character, is that the GM then has nothing to go on for tying the character to the story. The character's background doesn't exist, thus the character's background is immaterial to the story, and thus the character itself is also immaterial to the story. There's a test one can run to see if their character matters to the tale they're running - ask yourself if the story being told at your table would change at all if your character woke up one day as something completely different. If you're playing an elven abjuration wizard of the Sage background, and you woke up one morning as a goliath Lycan order blood hunter of the Soldier background (and nobody went 'WHAT THE **** HAPPENED?' but simply accepted it), would anything at all in the course of your game change?
If the answer is "No", then your character doesn't matter to the story you're telling, and I wonder why you're playing that game at all.
I maintain that a good backstory poses questions the GM can use as plot hooks, decides your motivation for adventuring, and gives you a seed to start with. Anything more is usually overdoing it and generally has to be at GM discretion, but anything less generally means your character doesn't matter to the game at all. Some old school players are about to post "yeah, so? That's the point!" at me, and sure - some people like knowing they can play a disposable hero with no relevance to the world that they can socket in a replacement for in a matter of minutes should that character die.
But man...that seems like a lonely and unpleasant way to play to me.
With permission, I would like to chime in on this. Toots and Tommary are both “discover during play” characters for the most part. I had picked Urchin, so I had a rough idea of things because being a homeless child of a “minority race” (Hin) in the pseudomedieval D&D version of a Judge Dredd style megacity is gonna have some predictable elements. Yeah, I clicked the trait that says she asks a ton of questions, and the one says she eats like a pig. I picked the bond says she sponsors an orphanage, and the flaw says she will grab every scrimp of gold she can. But I didn’t invent the Clementines until I made that post. So now there’s a childless Hin thrupple in which the two husbands took on their wife’s surname and the three have opened their personal home up and turned it into an orphanage, while simultaneously starting a combination culinary trade school/soup kitchen so that the youths they board can learn a trade that they can live off of while simultaneously feeding the indigent of Cliffside. Cliffside was (AFAIK) just a name Wysp picked. Now (at least for our group) it’s a vertical megacity built around a series of locks that scale the cliff to connect canals at top and bottom. I don’t even have any idea where the canals go, but they have a backstory longer than my PC did when the campaign started. There are two holidays that didn’t exist before, and they both have holiday traditions decades (or longer) older than the campaign. And that’s just from my end. Midnight’s done just as much. (Heck, those “archives” are the oldest things in that world that I know of.) So you tell me, are Toots and Tommary “immaterial” to that campaign? You tell me, am I having fun playing Toots? Am I enjoying discovering who she is along with the rest of you?
How about this:
What did Han Solo’s backstory have eff all to do with A New Hope? The only reason he had a backstory was so he could blow Greedo away in the cantina. The only reason he did that was so the audience could see for themselves that he was a shifty, badass pirate willing to shoot first. In fact, the entire main cast of characters for the entire core franchise were “discover during play” characters, that’s why Luke & Leia made out before their backstory as siblings was invented later, and they just kinda ignored the softcore incest after that.
What did Lt. John McClane‘s backstory have to do with America’s favorite Christmas movie other than give him an excuse to be in the wrong place at the right time? (Yippee-ki-yay [Expletive]-[Explative] 😉)
What did Bilbo Baggins’ backstory have to do with the quest to liberate Erebor (or at least it’s treasure) from Smaug?
What did Dutch’s backstory have to do with that final, fated mission to Central America other than give his team an excuse to be in the wrong place at the right time?
What did Ripley’s backstory have to do with that ship responding to that distress call other than give her an excuse to be on that ship when it happened?
Are you gonna tell me that any of 👆those characters were unimportant or “immaterial” to their stories? ‘Cause… those all developed into franchises.
I get it that you need to feel that your character is “bespoke” and in some way “integral” or “destined” for something important to the stories in which they participate. I like to play characters like that too from time to time.* But sometimes it’s also fun to discover who your PC is along the way, like Toots. It isn’t always about that ending the character is destined to reach, the journey of discovery is equally fulfilling. And sometimes a little half & half is nice too, like an Arnold Palmer of role playing, just a wee bit of backstory to build upon, and the rest a journey of discovery.** Other times it’s fun to flesh out who they were, and how they got to where they are, but with absolutely no expectation that any of it will ever be in any way relevant to the story at hand.*** My point is that there are many ways to enjoy a character, and many different levels of involvement they might have with any given story. But that they then become integral to the story through the process. A character can absolutely start fleshed out and with tie-ins the DM can use (or not use) and there’s merit to that approach. But a character can also start out as a relatively blank slate, and evolve into one of the most fun characters you ever meet along the way. About half of the most fun characters I have ever played were like Toots, and about half of the most forgettable characters I have ever played were planned out.
I urge everyone to give it a shot at some point and try “meeting your own PC along the road.” You may like it, you may not, but the journey to even that discovery is bound to be interesting.
*; **; *** 👇 Backstories from some of my other PCs with certain similarities to Toots.
*Ellalladrille Ci'allandriall, “Bespoke Character” (Similarity: Urchin Background; Differences: High Elf, Male, Charlatan Background, Medium Creature) Starting Level: 9th
When I was still a baby, my parents moved us to a foreign city far away from the lands of our people. As a small child I had no idea that we were different than our neighbors. Gradually, as I got older, I began to notice the differences between myself and most of the other children. I was faster and more nimble than the other children. Rarely could they lay a hand on me in games of Catch Me. My eyes were keener than theirs as well. Rarely could they escape my notice in games of Seekers and Hiders. I regularly outpaced them all in games of climbing and sneaking as well. I could always tell which hand the kola nut was in, but my hands moved too fast for their notice. One day, while we were exploring some tunnels that we had found hidden between two abandoned buildings, the other children began to get frightened. It was dark, and while we had a candle, none of us had a tinderbox. Eager to explore, I used my other gift to light the candle. At first, the other children were frightened of me and ran away. Soon, they accused me of using my magic to cheat them at our games. Eventually most of the other children stopped asking me to play at all.
By the beginning of my second decade, a strange and terrible illness began to sweep through the city. Most people were unaffected, only the elven population seemed to be susceptible. For years, every winter many around the city would catch a variety of illnesses, and they would always speak enviously of how my family’s Elven blood protected us. That year, no one was envious of their Elven neighbors. Before my parents fell as the rest of our kind who had populated the city had, my parents made arrangements for me with their solicitor. After the funeral, the solicitor took me straight to the children’s home he had placed me in. I remember, I was still wearing my black lace.... The women who ran the home were nice enough. They were always sure that all of our needs were provided for as best they could. We never lacked for clothing, or food, or education. But the children.... Children can be very cruel. Eventually, they were cruel enough that I ran away, and somehow never went back.
The first year or so on the streets of the city was rough, but also interesting. The skills that had left me so alienated my whole life were to my advantage here. Where other urchins slowly starved, or got caught and beaten for stealing, I was able to procure for myself, and slip away unnoticed. I was soon discovering parts of the city that I doubt many others know about to this day. Interesting corners and eaves and out of the way places where two buildings almost meet. The tunnels underneath the city, a labyrinth of intentional structures built on top of and through the remains of older cities. Those highest rooftops where one could truly sleep just beneath the stars themselves.... There are nights I still go to those rooftops.
Eventually, some of the less fortunate children began to notice my success. They eventually realized that it was easier to take from me what they could not from the shopkeepers and vapid nobles’ sons. Like I said, children can be cruel. The next few years were easier. I was better able to see to myself and look out for the other children. They were also less interesting, as I was beginning to run out of places to explore safely enough all alone. But that fourth winter was bad. The cold was so extreme that to be out for more than a few minutes could mean the loss of toes or worse. And the wind never stopped howling for weeks, the sound of a predator joyous in the hunt. At first I was fairly secure with a supply of food and ale that I had laid up in a warm and secure nook within the tunnels where the heat from who knows where bled through the wall into a space that the world had forgotten. Things were okay for a week, then two weeks....
Eventually I was forced to go out for more food and water. Water was the hard part. Despite the cold there had been no snow, and the cold had been so strong for so long that liquid water was hard to come by, and dangerous to collect. If your fingers got wet, the frost could have bitten into them before you could stopper the skin again. You can live a long time without food, but water.... I ventured out from the warmth and safety of my hidden spot into the greater tunnels beyond. The cold was there waiting for me. As I ventured further into the darkness of the underground, even the biting wind from above seemed to scythe it’s way down into the world beneath the city. Soon, I had exhausted me search of the nearby network, and had resigned myself to attempt a brief trip above. I must have only made it about a dozen steps.
When I awoke, I was warm and clean and dry for the first time in years. The air around me smelled of fresh food, a delicious bitter aroma I had never known before, and the somehow familiar scent of chemicals and burnt metal that reminded me of my father. When I sat up, I was greeted by a face I vaguely recognized. He was very obviously Gnomish. His stature was small, but his proportions were a little off. His head was bald on top, but tufts of white stuck out several inches and in all directions in a sort of demi-halo around the sides and back of his head. His nose was almost bulbose on his tiny face, his head almost too large for someone barely three feet tall. His frame was tiny by comparison, save for the enormous potbelly in front of him. He was bedecked in an exquisitely expensive suit of grey wool with black pinstripes, and a wine colored brocade vest over a white collared shirt with a bootstring-tie clasped with a silver band.
“Good heavens boy, I thought you had died with your parents. Would you like some coffee?” It was my father’s old colleague, Doomagee Hermannsburge. As we spoke, I began to explore the room we were in. It was full of books and gadgets of all sorts. Bookshelves lined most of the walls from floor to ceiling. There was a set of glass vials and beakers bubbling away on a table in the corner. In another alcove there were half-finished pieces of weapons and armor set in racks. Finally I came upon a workstation I found piles of gears and springs and other mechanical pieces. It was there that I found a simple music box that played a familiar melody. It was a song my mother used to sing to me when I was little. Doomagee said that he had learned to make it by studying the one my father had made for my mother. Doomagee was kind enough to let me keep it. He took me in and raised me as his ward. He took note of my nimbleness and encouraged it. He took notice of my cleverness and honed it. He taught me the ways of the Artificer, as apparently my father had taught to him a century ago. And when I was ready, he enrolled me into The Society of Monitors, with whom I am enguilded To this day.
Sposta’s Note: You wanna talk about a character who’s backstory is intrinsic to the campaign? The whole campaign has so far been all about that “Society of Monitors.” That DM asked me what that was and I said “You tell me.” It was just a name I plucked out of thin air as a potential hook for him to use. (For all I knew it was a book club.)
** Bassil Wrathbone, “half & half” (Similarity: Bard base class; Differences: Half-Elf, Male, Charlatan Background, Medium Creature) Starting Level: 6th
When I was young my mother was accused of witchcraft by the local lord when he found out that he had gotten her pregnant during one of his dalliances. She was burned at the stake and I was left orphaned and penniless. Life on the streets was hard. I spent many a cold, hungry night imagining what I would say when one day I would finally confront the man responsible for mine and my mother’s fates.
I soon turned to begging and small cons to earn my daily bread. Eventually I caught the attention of a traveling troupe of players when I turned my talents upon them. They took me in and taught me their craft. Soon I made quite a name for myself by playing the villains and heels in their plays. It turned out I had quite a knack for tapping into the “essence” of villainy. I have spent so many performances playing a villain I’m afraid I might be starting to become one. Now I hope to use my talents to gain vengeance on the true villain who murdered my mother.
Sposta’s Note: This character’s background is two paragraphs longer than Toots’ was at first, now hers is at least twice this length, and far more detailed. (And more interesting IMO.)
*** Grotmaw “Ded-eye,” “fleshed out but irrelevant” (Similarity: Small size; Differences: Goblin, Male, Fighter, Mercenary Veteran) Starting Level: 1st
Grotmaw wuz yungest sun o’da Boss o’da Yella Ratfang Clan, Gobbo Glint Toof, on acounta he had da shiniest teef in da hole clan. But bein’ yungest sun ment dat Grotmaw wuz nevur gonna gonna get ears notched on acounta how many older brudders wuz aheda me. Evin wiv allada ded wuns outa da way, der wuz still too many still livin’ aheda me fer Grotmaw ta ever ern earnotches. So Grotmaw go ‘way.
Grotmaw went out inta’da wurld ta make sumthin’ fer me dat stinkin’ brudders couldn’t neva take. At furst it no go so good. People saw Grotmaw an’ wood start screemin’ an’ throwin’ stuffs. Is no good. But den, wun day sum soldirs noticed how good Grotmaw wuz wiv da crossbow an’ how sneeky sneeky Grotmaw can be so dey offured Grotmaw lotsa chrysós... gold. Dey sez dat Grotmaw can get lots gold, all I hadda do wuz sneek good an’ shoot peepul an’ dey pays Grotmaw. Grotmaw likes to sneek, is verry good at it. Grotmaw good at shootin’ peepul too. Grotmaw took job.
Grotmaw like job. Grotmaw got a shine uneeform, and wuz taut hawda march an’ stuffs. Grotmaw lernt dat marchin’ ‘round inna uneeform makes feemales like Grotmaw better. Is very good. Grotmaw wuz only a Privut in da Therd Scoutin’ ‘Toon. But purty soon Grotmaw got so good at shootin’ peepuls an’ stuffs dat da udder soldirs startid callin’ Grotmaw “Ded-eye” an’ Elf frend Sargent made Grotmaw a Curprul in da squad. Dat wuz how Grotmaw ernt his furst earnotch. Is verry verry good. Elf Sargent liked Grotmaw, so when frend Elf got ‘moted to Luftenat o’da secund Scoutin’ ‘Toon, he bring Grotmaw too to be Sargent o’da Furst Squad. Dat was how Grotmaw ernt secund earnotch.
Now Grotmaw haz too earnotches, an’ t’ree shine rings in hiz face made outta gold, wun fer each war Grotmaw fights in. Too bad dat da Captun wuz ded aftur dat, cuz den lotsa Grotmaw frends started’a take der gold an’ go find better Captuns ta fight fer. Finuly Luftenat friend Elf becum da Captun. Captun Elf frend sez to Grotmaw make Luftenat o’da Furst Scoutin’ ‘Toon. But furst Grotmaw wanna go back home an’ show stinkin’ brudders Grotmaw gots earnotched an’ face shines outta chrysús. Maybe shoot sum o’dem too. Me not kno yet. Den maybe Grotmaw go back an’ be Luftenat wiv new, not-stinky brudders in da Black Falcun Cumpny.
Sposta’s Note: Sorry folks, I understand the goblinesque phonetic spelling is difficult for some people. If you are having a hard time, reading it out loud helps because then you can hear the phonetic pronunciation and the words make sense.
50/50 is usually what I think is best. The best way I've heard it was you don't want to be the decorated veteran who's greatest achievements have already been accomplished(at least not if you're starting a campaign at level 1) because you're story might as well be complete, but you don't want to be "farm boy leaves farm because he wants to adventure #3" character either. One or two little details that can create a mystery or just add an element to the story can make a little back story for very interesting and fun character. On the Han Solo subject, one little detail about that scene with Gweedo sets them up to go to Jabba's Palace in the third movie.
I did vote, but I was wondering: how do you make a poll on this site? I've had a couple of topics I'd like to make polls on, but I don't know how. Please help.
If you click the "new thread" button to create your thread, it'll show an "add a poll" button down left.
It must not be supported on mobile....TO THE LAPTOP!!!
You just have to turn your phone sideways, and maybe zoom out to 85% and then zoom back in after you hit the button.
On the Han Solo subject, one little detail about that scene with Gweedo sets them up to go to Jabba's Palace in the third movie.
Yeah, but none of that was written when Han shot first. It was added later as part of the “discover through game play” evolving background. When that scene was written in a New Hope, there was no “Episode 5” yet.
Hoo boy. Lot to dig into here. Time to put those Loudmouth Club banners to work. All right.
I have not actually read most of the backlogged game for the Waywatcher team. I read a few pages back from when Ilyara got dumped out of her Pokeball to get a sense of what she would be seeing, but I've not read the rest for a couple of reasons. My question isn't "are Toots/Tommary bad characters?" or "is all of that just lazy worldbuilding?", because clearly neither is true. Retroactive backfill is probably the best way to do worldbuilding for a huge majority of tables, and backstory doesn't make a character good or bad. My question is mostly whether or not any of those discovered revelations changed the course of the game. Did they affect decisions the team made? Did they change actions the team might've taken? Did they change the tale Wysperra was telling? Or did they simply provide extra context for things the team was already going to do?
That's my general concern with the discover-as-you-go style. Narrative backfill is excellent for providing context for existing things. It's generally not nearly as good at providing impetus to make decisions or influencing the course of a game. You knew going in that Toots hoarded treasure and that she sponsored an orphanage. You discovered in-game which orphanage and decided the treasure-hoarding was to support that orphanage, and created some real story around it. That's excellent, and very good roleplaying. It did not change any decisions Toots was making though, nor any campaign decisions Wysperra might've made. Or at least, not as described to me in this post they did not. I will, if wrong, admit to ignorance and move on.
Anyways. On to more broadly applicable subjects:
With one exception, your list of characters are all from movies. Movies have between ninety to one hundred and twenty minutes to tell a complete story. They do not have the narrative budget to burn on exploring the foundations of a group of characters. They focus on short, action-packed stories that would be the equivalent of a single session of a tabletop game. I wouldn't care to explore backstories in a single-session game either. Two of those examples are worth a brief bit of further discussion, though - BIlbo and Ripley.
Bilbo is the one with an entire book devoted to him, and I'd argue that his backstory is quite important to that book. Bilbo was brought on board specifically because he's a hobbit, not a dwarf. The dwarven team knew they couldn't accomplish their goal on their own - dwarves had tried and failed over and over again to dislodge Smaug. Gandalf brought Bilbo aboard because the team needed a different way of thinking. Bilbo's nature as a hobbit was critical - he was no more a 'thief' than Thorin was, but as a gentlemanly hobbit from the Shire, Bilbo was entirely unconcerned with glory, renown, and all those other things stuffed in the heads of Thorin's company. He wasn't concerned with vengeance, or winning back the honor of the clan. He was concerned with getting his ample backside back into its cozy chair back home in as intact and expeditious - in that order - a manner as he could, and that made him a thief by dwarven standards. The specifics of Bilbo's Shire life were not critical to There and Back Again, no - but had Bilbo been another dwarven fighter rather than a halfling rogue, Smaug would still have been alive by the end of that book and Thorin Oakenshield and crew would not have been.
The other example is Ellen Ripley, which I would argue is a good example of what I was speaking of. Ellen Ripley could've been replaced by most any other character that made any sense for the setting and Alien would still have worked as a story. Nothing about Ellen-in-particular mattered to the movie - all it cared about was that she was alive, she'd strongly prefer to stay that way, but the Alien had other ideas. If Ellen Ripley had been, say...Isaac Clarke, from Dead Space? Alien would've still been the same story, just with some minor cosmetic adjustments. If Ellen Ripley had been Space Bilbo, the halfling rogue? Again - same story with minor cosmetic changes. Ripley-the-person did not matter at all to that tale; she was there purely as an audience surrogate and a focal point for Alien's horror. Later movies in the franchise were A.) generally not as good, and B.) responsible for adding all the lore around Ripley that the first movie didn't bother with. They could've used other characters as well, they simply pulled Ripley in for the name recognition.
Anyways. A D&D campaign lasts a whole lot longer than the average movie, or even the average movie franchise. Ideally, one wants to squeeze multiple hundreds of hours of play out of a given group of PCs. Different tables have different ways of doing that. I'm not a tremendous fan of knowing nothing whatsoever about the character until narrative backfill happens, but I've done it. Cynai Adeyre, my water genasi Tempest cleric of Kord, had the backstory "She walked off a boat in Waterdeep and went to Game Start Tavern to grab a drink, with vague hopes of finding an artifact of Kord rumored to be in the city somewhere." That was pretty much it. Narrative backfill never happened with her - she remained mostly a blank space (and with 6 Intelligence, that's 'a blank space' both IC and OOC) until her game folded. Shit happened around Cynai, shit happened to Cynai, but shit never happened because of Cynai. Outside of her eminent willingness to do dumb shit to progress the plot because she was basically a lightning-spewing she-Grog, Cynai's specific presence in the game never really mattered. I could've replaced her with any other character and the tale would've progressed more-or-less the same way.
I don't care for that as much. Some people do. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
I personally love a character who is VERY open about their past, but at the same time is ignorant of their past. Like they THINK X Y & Z are true, but turns out they are only 30-40% right about each of those.
That's also a cool approach. A character that believes they know more than they do and can be shocked by revelations they never expected. It's one reason I try very hard in my own character background work to avoid explaining or describing anything the character itself has never experienced/confirmed. The Fated Star that spoke to the derpy farm boy in his dreams and implored him to seek out Adventure could've been the voice of a great protector spirit...or he could've taken one too many hits from the 'shine jug that night. Who knows? The DM does, and only the DM, until the DM deigns to share that information.
I always prefer to find out about the other PCs through the storytelling that goes on during the game sessions.
I see no reason to know everybody else's characters detailed backgrounds before the game starts.
After a campaign has finished, only then might players discuss which interesting parts of their background never showed the light of day during the campaign - or might explain why they did something "out of character" (for their normal PC behaviour) half way through the campaign which was actually linked to something in their background.
I think that knowing all the other characters' backgrounds in an out-of-character/game sense does mean that you can't react truly honestly when something occurs in-game.
Hoo boy. Lot to dig into here. Time to put those Loudmouth Club banners to work. All right.
I have not actually read most of the backlogged game for the Waywatcher team. I read a few pages back from when Ilyara got dumped out of her Pokeball to get a sense of what she would be seeing, but I've not read the rest for a couple of reasons. My question isn't "are Toots/Tommary bad characters?" or "is all of that just lazy worldbuilding?", because clearly neither is true. Retroactive backfill is probably the best way to do worldbuilding for a huge majority of tables, and backstory doesn't make a character good or bad. My question is mostly whether or not any of those discovered revelations changed the course of the game. Did they affect decisions the team made? Did they change actions the team might've taken? Did they change the tale Wysperra was telling? Or did they simply provide extra context for things the team was already going to do?
That's my general concern with the discover-as-you-go style. Narrative backfill is excellent for providing context for existing things. It's generally not nearly as good at providing impetus to make decisions or influencing the course of a game. You knew going in that Toots hoarded treasure and that she sponsored an orphanage. You discovered in-game which orphanage and decided the treasure-hoarding was to support that orphanage, and created some real story around it. That's excellent, and very good roleplaying. It did not change any decisions Toots was making though, nor any campaign decisions Wysperra might've made. Or at least, not as described to me in this post they did not. I will, if wrong, admit to ignorance and move on.
Since I was called out by name (scary thought that), I will chime in. Everybody in the campaign has contributed to shaping the campaign world. The party is fairly far from civilization currently but when (if - HA!) they get back, the orphanage will be waiting and just a few blocks down is the C class dueling arena. Sacred groves dedicated to Arvoreen are now in place as well as the discrete cabal of the Traveller.
For the majority of our readers, as they don't know, the campaign was created and put into effect as quickly as possible meaning backstory was not a requirement. Sometimes folk take their time thinking it up, I needed players ASAP.
In addition, you are personally responsible for putting variant zombies in the world. Double standard movement rate and they are bitey. Congratulations =)
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
This is a very fun thread to read i'll tell u what lol. I just felt like putting my two-cents in here cause why wouldnt i XD. I personally keep pretty much my entire characters backstory to myself. My dm has commented many times on how tightly i hold onto my characters secrets; because when i am playing an RPG my favorite aspect of roleplay is the mystery and intrigue so i end up perpetuating it almost to a fault. My characters have full backgrounds, but im really bad at having a clear idea of the personality of my character until i actually step into them in a number of situations.
I think it would be boring personally to play a character that had nothing to hide
This is a very fun thread to read i'll tell u what lol. I just felt like putting my two-cents in here cause why wouldnt i XD. I personally keep pretty much my entire characters backstory to myself. My dm has commented many times on how tightly i hold onto my characters secrets; because when i am playing an RPG my favorite aspect of roleplay is the mystery and intrigue so i end up perpetuating it almost to a fault. My characters have full backgrounds, but im really bad at having a clear idea of the personality of my character until i actually step into them in a number of situations.
I think it would be boring personally to play a character that had nothing to hide
Do you differentiate between what other characters get to know and what other players get to know?
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Do you differentiate between what other characters get to know and what other players get to know?
NOPE. I dont like to tell anyone anything meta, not because i dont trust the other players but because i love to get their live reactions. Im the kind of person who loves to watch people react to stuff and so thats where a lot of the fun comes from for me.
That being said, i actually have a character rn and one of the players knows like 80% of my backstory because i told it to them (because at the time they were not supposed to be a player in that campaign) and so we wrote a reasoning behind it into our backstories. It gave our characters a way to connect too which was cool
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With permission, I would like to chime in on this. Toots and Tommary are both “discover during play” characters for the most part. I had picked Urchin, so I had a rough idea of things because being a homeless child of a “minority race” (Hin) in the pseudomedieval D&D version of a Judge Dredd style megacity is gonna have some predictable elements. Yeah, I clicked the trait that says she asks a ton of questions, and the one says she eats like a pig. I picked the bond says she sponsors an orphanage, and the flaw says she will grab every scrimp of gold she can. But I didn’t invent the Clementines until I made that post. So now there’s a childless Hin thrupple in which the two husbands took on their wife’s surname and the three have opened their personal home up and turned it into an orphanage, while simultaneously starting a combination culinary trade school/soup kitchen so that the youths they board can learn a trade that they can live off of while simultaneously feeding the indigent of Cliffside. Cliffside was (AFAIK) just a name Wysp picked. Now (at least for our group) it’s a vertical megacity built around a series of locks that scale the cliff to connect canals at top and bottom. I don’t even have any idea where the canals go, but they have a backstory longer than my PC did when the campaign started. There are two holidays that didn’t exist before, and they both have holiday traditions decades (or longer) older than the campaign. And that’s just from my end. Midnight’s done just as much. (Heck, those “archives” are the oldest things in that world that I know of.) So you tell me, are Toots and Tommary “immaterial” to that campaign? You tell me, am I having fun playing Toots? Am I enjoying discovering who she is along with the rest of you?
How about this:
Are you gonna tell me that any of 👆those characters were unimportant or “immaterial” to their stories? ‘Cause… those all developed into franchises.
I get it that you need to feel that your character is “bespoke” and in some way “integral” or “destined” for something important to the stories in which they participate. I like to play characters like that too from time to time.* But sometimes it’s also fun to discover who your PC is along the way, like Toots. It isn’t always about that ending the character is destined to reach, the journey of discovery is equally fulfilling. And sometimes a little half & half is nice too, like an Arnold Palmer of role playing, just a wee bit of backstory to build upon, and the rest a journey of discovery.** Other times it’s fun to flesh out who they were, and how they got to where they are, but with absolutely no expectation that any of it will ever be in any way relevant to the story at hand.*** My point is that there are many ways to enjoy a character, and many different levels of involvement they might have with any given story. But that they then become integral to the story through the process. A character can absolutely start fleshed out and with tie-ins the DM can use (or not use) and there’s merit to that approach. But a character can also start out as a relatively blank slate, and evolve into one of the most fun characters you ever meet along the way. About half of the most fun characters I have ever played were like Toots, and about half of the most forgettable characters I have ever played were planned out.
I urge everyone to give it a shot at some point and try “meeting your own PC along the road.” You may like it, you may not, but the journey to even that discovery is bound to be interesting.
*; **; *** 👇 Backstories from some of my other PCs with certain similarities to Toots.
*Ellalladrille Ci'allandriall, “Bespoke Character” (Similarity: Urchin Background; Differences: High Elf, Male, Charlatan Background, Medium Creature) Starting Level: 9th
When I was still a baby, my parents moved us to a foreign city far away from the lands of our people. As a small child I had no idea that we were different than our neighbors. Gradually, as I got older, I began to notice the differences between myself and most of the other children. I was faster and more nimble than the other children. Rarely could they lay a hand on me in games of Catch Me. My eyes were keener than theirs as well. Rarely could they escape my notice in games of Seekers and Hiders. I regularly outpaced them all in games of climbing and sneaking as well. I could always tell which hand the kola nut was in, but my hands moved too fast for their notice. One day, while we were exploring some tunnels that we had found hidden between two abandoned buildings, the other children began to get frightened. It was dark, and while we had a candle, none of us had a tinderbox. Eager to explore, I used my other gift to light the candle. At first, the other children were frightened of me and ran away. Soon, they accused me of using my magic to cheat them at our games. Eventually most of the other children stopped asking me to play at all.
By the beginning of my second decade, a strange and terrible illness began to sweep through the city. Most people were unaffected, only the elven population seemed to be susceptible. For years, every winter many around the city would catch a variety of illnesses, and they would always speak enviously of how my family’s Elven blood protected us. That year, no one was envious of their Elven neighbors. Before my parents fell as the rest of our kind who had populated the city had, my parents made arrangements for me with their solicitor. After the funeral, the solicitor took me straight to the children’s home he had placed me in. I remember, I was still wearing my black lace.... The women who ran the home were nice enough. They were always sure that all of our needs were provided for as best they could. We never lacked for clothing, or food, or education. But the children.... Children can be very cruel. Eventually, they were cruel enough that I ran away, and somehow never went back.
The first year or so on the streets of the city was rough, but also interesting. The skills that had left me so alienated my whole life were to my advantage here. Where other urchins slowly starved, or got caught and beaten for stealing, I was able to procure for myself, and slip away unnoticed. I was soon discovering parts of the city that I doubt many others know about to this day. Interesting corners and eaves and out of the way places where two buildings almost meet. The tunnels underneath the city, a labyrinth of intentional structures built on top of and through the remains of older cities. Those highest rooftops where one could truly sleep just beneath the stars themselves.... There are nights I still go to those rooftops.
Eventually, some of the less fortunate children began to notice my success. They eventually realized that it was easier to take from me what they could not from the shopkeepers and vapid nobles’ sons. Like I said, children can be cruel. The next few years were easier. I was better able to see to myself and look out for the other children. They were also less interesting, as I was beginning to run out of places to explore safely enough all alone. But that fourth winter was bad. The cold was so extreme that to be out for more than a few minutes could mean the loss of toes or worse. And the wind never stopped howling for weeks, the sound of a predator joyous in the hunt. At first I was fairly secure with a supply of food and ale that I had laid up in a warm and secure nook within the tunnels where the heat from who knows where bled through the wall into a space that the world had forgotten. Things were okay for a week, then two weeks....
Eventually I was forced to go out for more food and water. Water was the hard part. Despite the cold there had been no snow, and the cold had been so strong for so long that liquid water was hard to come by, and dangerous to collect. If your fingers got wet, the frost could have bitten into them before you could stopper the skin again. You can live a long time without food, but water.... I ventured out from the warmth and safety of my hidden spot into the greater tunnels beyond. The cold was there waiting for me. As I ventured further into the darkness of the underground, even the biting wind from above seemed to scythe it’s way down into the world beneath the city. Soon, I had exhausted me search of the nearby network, and had resigned myself to attempt a brief trip above. I must have only made it about a dozen steps.
When I awoke, I was warm and clean and dry for the first time in years. The air around me smelled of fresh food, a delicious bitter aroma I had never known before, and the somehow familiar scent of chemicals and burnt metal that reminded me of my father. When I sat up, I was greeted by a face I vaguely recognized. He was very obviously Gnomish. His stature was small, but his proportions were a little off. His head was bald on top, but tufts of white stuck out several inches and in all directions in a sort of demi-halo around the sides and back of his head. His nose was almost bulbose on his tiny face, his head almost too large for someone barely three feet tall. His frame was tiny by comparison, save for the enormous potbelly in front of him. He was bedecked in an exquisitely expensive suit of grey wool with black pinstripes, and a wine colored brocade vest over a white collared shirt with a bootstring-tie clasped with a silver band.
“Good heavens boy, I thought you had died with your parents. Would you like some coffee?” It was my father’s old colleague, Doomagee Hermannsburge. As we spoke, I began to explore the room we were in. It was full of books and gadgets of all sorts. Bookshelves lined most of the walls from floor to ceiling. There was a set of glass vials and beakers bubbling away on a table in the corner. In another alcove there were half-finished pieces of weapons and armor set in racks. Finally I came upon a workstation I found piles of gears and springs and other mechanical pieces. It was there that I found a simple music box that played a familiar melody. It was a song my mother used to sing to me when I was little. Doomagee said that he had learned to make it by studying the one my father had made for my mother. Doomagee was kind enough to let me keep it. He took me in and raised me as his ward. He took note of my nimbleness and encouraged it. He took notice of my cleverness and honed it. He taught me the ways of the Artificer, as apparently my father had taught to him a century ago. And when I was ready, he enrolled me into The Society of Monitors, with whom I am enguilded To this day.
Sposta’s Note: You wanna talk about a character who’s backstory is intrinsic to the campaign? The whole campaign has so far been all about that “Society of Monitors.” That DM asked me what that was and I said “You tell me.” It was just a name I plucked out of thin air as a potential hook for him to use. (For all I knew it was a book club.)
** Bassil Wrathbone, “half & half” (Similarity: Bard base class; Differences: Half-Elf, Male, Charlatan Background, Medium Creature) Starting Level: 6th
When I was young my mother was accused of witchcraft by the local lord when he found out that he had gotten her pregnant during one of his dalliances. She was burned at the stake and I was left orphaned and penniless. Life on the streets was hard. I spent many a cold, hungry night imagining what I would say when one day I would finally confront the man responsible for mine and my mother’s fates.
I soon turned to begging and small cons to earn my daily bread. Eventually I caught the attention of a traveling troupe of players when I turned my talents upon them. They took me in and taught me their craft. Soon I made quite a name for myself by playing the villains and heels in their plays. It turned out I had quite a knack for tapping into the “essence” of villainy. I have spent so many performances playing a villain I’m afraid I might be starting to become one. Now I hope to use my talents to gain vengeance on the true villain who murdered my mother.
Sposta’s Note: This character’s background is two paragraphs longer than Toots’ was at first, now hers is at least twice this length, and far more detailed. (And more interesting IMO.)
*** Grotmaw “Ded-eye,” “fleshed out but irrelevant” (Similarity: Small size; Differences: Goblin, Male, Fighter, Mercenary Veteran) Starting Level: 1st
Grotmaw wuz yungest sun o’da Boss o’da Yella Ratfang Clan, Gobbo Glint Toof, on acounta he had da shiniest teef in da hole clan. But bein’ yungest sun ment dat Grotmaw wuz nevur gonna gonna get ears notched on acounta how many older brudders wuz aheda me. Evin wiv allada ded wuns outa da way, der wuz still too many still livin’ aheda me fer Grotmaw ta ever ern earnotches. So Grotmaw go ‘way.
Grotmaw went out inta’da wurld ta make sumthin’ fer me dat stinkin’ brudders couldn’t neva take. At furst it no go so good. People saw Grotmaw an’ wood start screemin’ an’ throwin’ stuffs. Is no good. But den, wun day sum soldirs noticed how good Grotmaw wuz wiv da crossbow an’ how sneeky sneeky Grotmaw can be so dey offured Grotmaw lotsa chrysós... gold. Dey sez dat Grotmaw can get lots gold, all I hadda do wuz sneek good an’ shoot peepul an’ dey pays Grotmaw. Grotmaw likes to sneek, is verry good at it. Grotmaw good at shootin’ peepul too. Grotmaw took job.
Grotmaw like job. Grotmaw got a shine uneeform, and wuz taut hawda march an’ stuffs. Grotmaw lernt dat marchin’ ‘round inna uneeform makes feemales like Grotmaw better. Is very good. Grotmaw wuz only a Privut in da Therd Scoutin’ ‘Toon. But purty soon Grotmaw got so good at shootin’ peepuls an’ stuffs dat da udder soldirs startid callin’ Grotmaw “Ded-eye” an’ Elf frend Sargent made Grotmaw a Curprul in da squad. Dat wuz how Grotmaw ernt his furst earnotch. Is verry verry good. Elf Sargent liked Grotmaw, so when frend Elf got ‘moted to Luftenat o’da secund Scoutin’ ‘Toon, he bring Grotmaw too to be Sargent o’da Furst Squad. Dat was how Grotmaw ernt secund earnotch.
Now Grotmaw haz too earnotches, an’ t’ree shine rings in hiz face made outta gold, wun fer each war Grotmaw fights in. Too bad dat da Captun wuz ded aftur dat, cuz den lotsa Grotmaw frends started’a take der gold an’ go find better Captuns ta fight fer. Finuly Luftenat friend Elf becum da Captun. Captun Elf frend sez to Grotmaw make Luftenat o’da Furst Scoutin’ ‘Toon. But furst Grotmaw wanna go back home an’ show stinkin’ brudders Grotmaw gots earnotched an’ face shines outta chrysús. Maybe shoot sum o’dem too. Me not kno yet. Den maybe Grotmaw go back an’ be Luftenat wiv new, not-stinky brudders in da Black Falcun Cumpny.
Sposta’s Note: Sorry folks, I understand the goblinesque phonetic spelling is difficult for some people. If you are having a hard time, reading it out loud helps because then you can hear the phonetic pronunciation and the words make sense.
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It must not be supported on mobile....TO THE LAPTOP!!!
50/50 is usually what I think is best. The best way I've heard it was you don't want to be the decorated veteran who's greatest achievements have already been accomplished(at least not if you're starting a campaign at level 1) because you're story might as well be complete, but you don't want to be "farm boy leaves farm because he wants to adventure #3" character either. One or two little details that can create a mystery or just add an element to the story can make a little back story for very interesting and fun character. On the Han Solo subject, one little detail about that scene with Gweedo sets them up to go to Jabba's Palace in the third movie.
You just have to turn your phone sideways, and maybe zoom out to 85% and then zoom back in after you hit the button.
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Yeah, but none of that was written when Han shot first. It was added later as part of the “discover through game play” evolving background. When that scene was written in a New Hope, there was no “Episode 5” yet.
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Hoo boy. Lot to dig into here. Time to put those Loudmouth Club banners to work. All right.
I have not actually read most of the backlogged game for the Waywatcher team. I read a few pages back from when Ilyara got dumped out of her Pokeball to get a sense of what she would be seeing, but I've not read the rest for a couple of reasons. My question isn't "are Toots/Tommary bad characters?" or "is all of that just lazy worldbuilding?", because clearly neither is true. Retroactive backfill is probably the best way to do worldbuilding for a huge majority of tables, and backstory doesn't make a character good or bad. My question is mostly whether or not any of those discovered revelations changed the course of the game. Did they affect decisions the team made? Did they change actions the team might've taken? Did they change the tale Wysperra was telling? Or did they simply provide extra context for things the team was already going to do?
That's my general concern with the discover-as-you-go style. Narrative backfill is excellent for providing context for existing things. It's generally not nearly as good at providing impetus to make decisions or influencing the course of a game. You knew going in that Toots hoarded treasure and that she sponsored an orphanage. You discovered in-game which orphanage and decided the treasure-hoarding was to support that orphanage, and created some real story around it. That's excellent, and very good roleplaying. It did not change any decisions Toots was making though, nor any campaign decisions Wysperra might've made. Or at least, not as described to me in this post they did not. I will, if wrong, admit to ignorance and move on.
Anyways. On to more broadly applicable subjects:
With one exception, your list of characters are all from movies. Movies have between ninety to one hundred and twenty minutes to tell a complete story. They do not have the narrative budget to burn on exploring the foundations of a group of characters. They focus on short, action-packed stories that would be the equivalent of a single session of a tabletop game. I wouldn't care to explore backstories in a single-session game either. Two of those examples are worth a brief bit of further discussion, though - BIlbo and Ripley.
Bilbo is the one with an entire book devoted to him, and I'd argue that his backstory is quite important to that book. Bilbo was brought on board specifically because he's a hobbit, not a dwarf. The dwarven team knew they couldn't accomplish their goal on their own - dwarves had tried and failed over and over again to dislodge Smaug. Gandalf brought Bilbo aboard because the team needed a different way of thinking. Bilbo's nature as a hobbit was critical - he was no more a 'thief' than Thorin was, but as a gentlemanly hobbit from the Shire, Bilbo was entirely unconcerned with glory, renown, and all those other things stuffed in the heads of Thorin's company. He wasn't concerned with vengeance, or winning back the honor of the clan. He was concerned with getting his ample backside back into its cozy chair back home in as intact and expeditious - in that order - a manner as he could, and that made him a thief by dwarven standards. The specifics of Bilbo's Shire life were not critical to There and Back Again, no - but had Bilbo been another dwarven fighter rather than a halfling rogue, Smaug would still have been alive by the end of that book and Thorin Oakenshield and crew would not have been.
The other example is Ellen Ripley, which I would argue is a good example of what I was speaking of. Ellen Ripley could've been replaced by most any other character that made any sense for the setting and Alien would still have worked as a story. Nothing about Ellen-in-particular mattered to the movie - all it cared about was that she was alive, she'd strongly prefer to stay that way, but the Alien had other ideas. If Ellen Ripley had been, say...Isaac Clarke, from Dead Space? Alien would've still been the same story, just with some minor cosmetic adjustments. If Ellen Ripley had been Space Bilbo, the halfling rogue? Again - same story with minor cosmetic changes. Ripley-the-person did not matter at all to that tale; she was there purely as an audience surrogate and a focal point for Alien's horror. Later movies in the franchise were A.) generally not as good, and B.) responsible for adding all the lore around Ripley that the first movie didn't bother with. They could've used other characters as well, they simply pulled Ripley in for the name recognition.
Anyways. A D&D campaign lasts a whole lot longer than the average movie, or even the average movie franchise. Ideally, one wants to squeeze multiple hundreds of hours of play out of a given group of PCs. Different tables have different ways of doing that. I'm not a tremendous fan of knowing nothing whatsoever about the character until narrative backfill happens, but I've done it. Cynai Adeyre, my water genasi Tempest cleric of Kord, had the backstory "She walked off a boat in Waterdeep and went to Game Start Tavern to grab a drink, with vague hopes of finding an artifact of Kord rumored to be in the city somewhere." That was pretty much it. Narrative backfill never happened with her - she remained mostly a blank space (and with 6 Intelligence, that's 'a blank space' both IC and OOC) until her game folded. Shit happened around Cynai, shit happened to Cynai, but shit never happened because of Cynai. Outside of her eminent willingness to do dumb shit to progress the plot because she was basically a lightning-spewing she-Grog, Cynai's specific presence in the game never really mattered. I could've replaced her with any other character and the tale would've progressed more-or-less the same way.
I don't care for that as much. Some people do. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
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I personally love a character who is VERY open about their past, but at the same time is ignorant of their past. Like they THINK X Y & Z are true, but turns out they are only 30-40% right about each of those.
That's also a cool approach. A character that believes they know more than they do and can be shocked by revelations they never expected. It's one reason I try very hard in my own character background work to avoid explaining or describing anything the character itself has never experienced/confirmed. The Fated Star that spoke to the derpy farm boy in his dreams and implored him to seek out Adventure could've been the voice of a great protector spirit...or he could've taken one too many hits from the 'shine jug that night. Who knows? The DM does, and only the DM, until the DM deigns to share that information.
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I always prefer to find out about the other PCs through the storytelling that goes on during the game sessions.
I see no reason to know everybody else's characters detailed backgrounds before the game starts.
After a campaign has finished, only then might players discuss which interesting parts of their background never showed the light of day during the campaign - or might explain why they did something "out of character" (for their normal PC behaviour) half way through the campaign which was actually linked to something in their background.
I think that knowing all the other characters' backgrounds in an out-of-character/game sense does mean that you can't react truly honestly when something occurs in-game.
Since I was called out by name (scary thought that), I will chime in. Everybody in the campaign has contributed to shaping the campaign world. The party is fairly far from civilization currently but when (if - HA!) they get back, the orphanage will be waiting and just a few blocks down is the C class dueling arena. Sacred groves dedicated to Arvoreen are now in place as well as the discrete cabal of the Traveller.
For the majority of our readers, as they don't know, the campaign was created and put into effect as quickly as possible meaning backstory was not a requirement. Sometimes folk take their time thinking it up, I needed players ASAP.
In addition, you are personally responsible for putting variant zombies in the world. Double standard movement rate and they are bitey. Congratulations =)
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"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
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This is a very fun thread to read i'll tell u what lol.
I just felt like putting my two-cents in here cause why wouldnt i XD. I personally keep pretty much my entire characters backstory to myself. My dm has commented many times on how tightly i hold onto my characters secrets; because when i am playing an RPG my favorite aspect of roleplay is the mystery and intrigue so i end up perpetuating it almost to a fault. My characters have full backgrounds, but im really bad at having a clear idea of the personality of my character until i actually step into them in a number of situations.
I think it would be boring personally to play a character that had nothing to hide
Do you differentiate between what other characters get to know and what other players get to know?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
NOPE. I dont like to tell anyone anything meta, not because i dont trust the other players but because i love to get their live reactions. Im the kind of person who loves to watch people react to stuff and so thats where a lot of the fun comes from for me.
That being said, i actually have a character rn and one of the players knows like 80% of my backstory because i told it to them (because at the time they were not supposed to be a player in that campaign) and so we wrote a reasoning behind it into our backstories. It gave our characters a way to connect too which was cool