Consider who we see him talking to. The CR would be pretty high already.
The first time we see him he's facing somebody who was ordered to bring him in dead or alive for a bunch of money. The CR to convince a bounty hunter to let you go would be ridiculously high. The bounty hunter would lose his pay, and lose his reputation especially when there is a room full of witnesses to say he just let the guy go. As a GM I might rate such a Persuasion roll a non-roll meaning don't roll, you can't do it. Or something like 30+
On the flip side, he rolled a nat 20 Intimidation against a squad of storm troopers when he 'Solo'd' them into running.
The twig snap in RotJ was actually used in the last iterations of the Star Wars d6 RPG to explain the swingy mechanics behind its wild die system (game was played with d6 pools, but one die was designated wild, 1's on that wild die were bad). Without a critical fumble in D&D (which sometimes gets house ruled) I don't think the game could pull off a Solo.
Han got two shots off against Darth Vader in a round that Vader had him surprised. I'm pretty sure that counts as rolling a lot higher than 4.
Ah but was the Force part of Vader's AC (something like Shield) or was absorbing palming blaster fire a reaction Sith class feature, and does the volley count as one attack or does Vader get two reactions? I'm really surprised I've never looked at d20 Star Wars, ever. It's pricey on the secondary market too :(
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
He rolled a pretty good sleight of hand (drawing his blaster under the table) and deception check (straight eye contact while pretending to negotiate) against Greedo in the Cantina. Also the various other examples already given.
He only tended consistently to roll low trying to flirt with Leia, but "seduction" is not a skill and persuasion is for acting in good faith and not intended for an opposed roll (something everybody that tries to seduce the villain doesn't seem to understand). At most it would be a case of her setting the DC exceptionally high to convince her to accept his advances (a practice colloquially known as "having high standards"), though to be fair for at least some of their interactions could be argued that he was flirting poorly on purpose as a roleplaying decision (spouting cheesy lines and/or generally acting like an idiot on purpose) to deliberately give himself disadvantage on his checks because he personally feared commitment and thus wanted her to rebuff him. In that latter case, it could be explained as Han making high deception checks against Leia's insight to make her believe he was just being a jackass instead of insecure. Or she beat his deception and was irritated by the insecurity she saw behind the veil of crude machismo and kept shooting him down just like he "wanted" because she wasn't interested until he finally started acting like a grown up man towards her (which she obviously found frustrating since she openly acknowledged his value as a soldier and a leader, which requires a certain maturity, even while insisting she didn't have the hots for him).
It's also possible that I'm thinking about this way too hard.
Han got two shots off against Darth Vader in a round that Vader had him surprised. I'm pretty sure that counts as rolling a lot higher than 4.
Ah but was the Force part of Vader's AC (something like Shield) or was absorbing palming blaster fire a reaction Sith class feature, and does the volley count as one attack or does Vader get two reactions? I'm really surprised I've never looked at d20 Star Wars, ever. It's pricey on the secondary market too :(
Vader is a sabre monk.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
To everybody saying he got Sleight of Hand on Greedo or a ranged hit on the Sarlaac pit monster while blinded: those are Dex-based. The claim is mainly that he has bad luck on Charisma checks.
He crushed the persuasion check to make Princess Leia fall in love with him. However, he did roll a nat 1 when he tried to get Ben to come home with him... RIP
His best move was dex based. He nailed the slight of hand check when he switched out all the storm trooper dice so they'd only roll nat 1s.
He rolled a pretty good sleight of hand (drawing his blaster under the table) and deception check (straight eye contact while pretending to negotiate) against Greedo in the Cantina. Also the various other examples already given.
He only tended consistently to roll low trying to flirt with Leia, but "seduction" is not a skill and persuasion is for acting in good faith and not intended for an opposed roll (something everybody that tries to seduce the villain doesn't seem to understand). At most it would be a case of her setting the DC exceptionally high to convince her to accept his advances (a practice colloquially known as "having high standards"), though to be fair for at least some of their interactions could be argued that he was flirting poorly on purpose as a roleplaying decision (spouting cheesy lines and/or generally acting like an idiot on purpose) to deliberately give himself disadvantage on his checks because he personally feared commitment and thus wanted her to rebuff him. In that latter case, it could be explained as Han making high deception checks against Leia's insight to make her believe he was just being a jackass instead of insecure. Or she beat his deception and was irritated by the insecurity she saw behind the veil of crude machismo and kept shooting him down just like he "wanted" because she wasn't interested until he finally started acting like a grown up man towards her (which she obviously found frustrating since she openly acknowledged his value as a soldier and a leader, which requires a certain maturity, even while insisting she didn't have the hots for him).
It's also possible that I'm thinking about this way too hard.
I dunno if either using cheesy pickup lines or purposefully acting like an idiot is necessarily “flirting poorly” at all. Think about, men have been doing both of those things for tens of thousands of years and humanity just keeps expanding in population. It can’t be that unsuccessful or humanity wouldn’t be here at all. Besides, I can personally attest to both of those tactics having succeeded on multiple occasions, with various women. One of the reasons is that women realize that men are intentionally acting like idiots as a means of catching attention and (hopefully) endearment, and more often than anyone will openly admit, it even works.
Many women tend to have either advantage, double proficiency, additional dice, or other bonuses on charisma checks against men (and some have all of that). That makes it more likely for them to pass their deception checks while pretending to not notice, not think it’s funny or charming, or to not be impressed. On top of that, many women have naturally high Passive Intimidation scores which results in many men being too insecure to make the attempts to impress them at all. That enables them to separate the wheat from the chaff without doing anything since they only need to consider those who are actually brave enough to try. (It’s an evolutionary thing to not find cowardice attractive.) Keep in mind that, whenever surveyed, women as a demographic consistently list the same two features as the overall “most attractive” qualities in men: Confidence, and Humor. Individual women like a great many different qualities in their menfolk, but the compiled evidence is overwhelming that a confident man who can make them laugh is statistically more likely draw positive female attention than physical appearance, individual Strength, personal wealth, or any other features.
A man doesn’t need to be handsome, rich, or buff. Confident and funny are often more successful than people realize. And those are two adjectives I doubt many people wold generally deny Han had. I mean, we are talking about Mr. “never tell me the odds” after all. (And that joke about knowing a few maneuvers!! Ha! He even delivered it with a straight face and everything. Hi—larious!) And after all, Han and Leia got married and had a family. He must not have been flirting that poorly after all. Ne?
Han got two shots off against Darth Vader in a round that Vader had him surprised. I'm pretty sure that counts as rolling a lot higher than 4.
Ah but was the Force part of Vader's AC (something like Shield) or was absorbing palming blaster fire a reaction Sith class feature, and does the volley count as one attack or does Vader get two reactions? I'm really surprised I've never looked at d20 Star Wars, ever. It's pricey on the secondary market too :(
Vader is a sabre monk.
<reads "Deflects Missiles"> Huh, I guess you're right.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
He crushed the persuasion check to make Princess Leia fall in love with him. However, he did roll a nat 1 when he tried to get Ben to come home with him... RIP
His best move was dex based. He nailed the slight of hand check when he switched out all the storm trooper dice so they'd only roll nat 1s.
He failed most checks to get Leia to fall in love with him. He just kept trying.
I'm still inclined to say her decision to claim him was more of a conscious roleplay choice on her part. Again with persuasion, in good faith, not being intended as an opposed role. She just eventually decided he was doing as good as he'd get and gave him a pass. Or maybe she finally failed a wisdom save against her true feelings or even passed a charisma save against her own pride concerning him being unworthy and admitted that she's actually into scruffy nerf herders. Seriously, they both clearly had the hots for each other from when they jumped into that garbage chute together, it was just a matter of them both admitting it (and he caved on that one first).
The dexterity checks he made with his space vehicle proficiency were far greater than 4. He 1) hid from a Star Destroyer by attaching to it, 2) made the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs, 3) flew through an Asteroid field, 4) piloted his way out of a space worm.
I'm still inclined to say her decision to claim him was more of a conscious roleplay choice on her part. Again with persuasion, in good faith, not being intended as an opposed role. She just eventually decided he was doing as good as he'd get and gave him a pass. Or maybe she finally failed a wisdom save against her true feelings or even passed a charisma save against her own pride concerning him being unworthy and admitted that she's actually into scruffy nerf herders. Seriously, they both clearly had the hots for each other from when they jumped into that garbage chute together, it was just a matter of them both admitting it (and he caved on that one first).
"I love you." "I know." Is him admitting it first?
See that's where I see Leia "claiming" Han (not sure I dig that verb to define Leia's choice). Let's keep in mind she's making that assertion after they've both been traumatized in an Imperial "interrogation/torture" chair (at least the last time Leia had a stint with Imperial intelligence, they actually wanted to know something, on Bespin Vader was just going medieval so that the pain could echo through the Force to Luke). Han's been selected for Anakin's carbon freeze nostalgia stunt, Chewie flips out and Han gets him to settle down telling his partner he needs to take care of Leia. Leia, whose relationship/regard to Chewie may actually be summed up in her calling him a walking carpet on Hoth(?, EDIT nope Death Star), recognizes Han sacrificing the short term "let's go down swinging" satisfaction and redirecting his partner to her protection. She sees his care, coupled with their current trauma, it's not an entirely surprising move ... though as the sequel trilogy probably indicates, also not the best foundation for a relationship.
Han solo is the character who has high charisma but never rolls above a 4
I would argue that he roll just fine, but the other characters around him have even higher wisdom (insight) checks.
You mean just with interactions or everything?
Consider who we see him talking to. The CR would be pretty high already.
The first time we see him he's facing somebody who was ordered to bring him in dead or alive for a bunch of money. The CR to convince a bounty hunter to let you go would be ridiculously high. The bounty hunter would lose his pay, and lose his reputation especially when there is a room full of witnesses to say he just let the guy go. As a GM I might rate such a Persuasion roll a non-roll meaning don't roll, you can't do it. Or something like 30+
On the flip side, he rolled a nat 20 Intimidation against a squad of storm troopers when he 'Solo'd' them into running.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
He rolled pretty high when he was blinded (disadvantage) and shot the sarlacc.
And there was a good survival check when he found and thought to cut open the tauntaun to save luke from freezing.
I'd say he rolls just fine when it counts. And he's obviously got the lucky feat. Could be a homebrew that let him take it twice
The twig snap in RotJ was actually used in the last iterations of the Star Wars d6 RPG to explain the swingy mechanics behind its wild die system (game was played with d6 pools, but one die was designated wild, 1's on that wild die were bad). Without a critical fumble in D&D (which sometimes gets house ruled) I don't think the game could pull off a Solo.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Han got two shots off against Darth Vader in a round that Vader had him surprised. I'm pretty sure that counts as rolling a lot higher than 4.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Ah but was the Force part of Vader's AC (something like Shield) or was absorbing palming blaster fire a reaction Sith class feature, and does the volley count as one attack or does Vader get two reactions? I'm really surprised I've never looked at d20 Star Wars, ever. It's pricey on the secondary market too :(
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
He rolled a pretty good sleight of hand (drawing his blaster under the table) and deception check (straight eye contact while pretending to negotiate) against Greedo in the Cantina. Also the various other examples already given.
He only tended consistently to roll low trying to flirt with Leia, but "seduction" is not a skill and persuasion is for acting in good faith and not intended for an opposed roll (something everybody that tries to seduce the villain doesn't seem to understand). At most it would be a case of her setting the DC exceptionally high to convince her to accept his advances (a practice colloquially known as "having high standards"), though to be fair for at least some of their interactions could be argued that he was flirting poorly on purpose as a roleplaying decision (spouting cheesy lines and/or generally acting like an idiot on purpose) to deliberately give himself disadvantage on his checks because he personally feared commitment and thus wanted her to rebuff him. In that latter case, it could be explained as Han making high deception checks against Leia's insight to make her believe he was just being a jackass instead of insecure. Or she beat his deception and was irritated by the insecurity she saw behind the veil of crude machismo and kept shooting him down just like he "wanted" because she wasn't interested until he finally started acting like a grown up man towards her (which she obviously found frustrating since she openly acknowledged his value as a soldier and a leader, which requires a certain maturity, even while insisting she didn't have the hots for him).
It's also possible that I'm thinking about this way too hard.
Vader is a sabre monk.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Han: Laugh it up fuzzball. But you didn't see us alone in the south passage. She expressed her true feelings for me.
DM: Roll Deception.
Han: 3 + 10 = 13
Leia: I don't know where you get your delusions, laser-brain.
To everybody saying he got Sleight of Hand on Greedo or a ranged hit on the Sarlaac pit monster while blinded: those are Dex-based. The claim is mainly that he has bad luck on Charisma checks.
He crushed the persuasion check to make Princess Leia fall in love with him. However, he did roll a nat 1 when he tried to get Ben to come home with him... RIP
His best move was dex based. He nailed the slight of hand check when he switched out all the storm trooper dice so they'd only roll nat 1s.
I dunno if either using cheesy pickup lines or purposefully acting like an idiot is necessarily “flirting poorly” at all. Think about, men have been doing both of those things for tens of thousands of years and humanity just keeps expanding in population. It can’t be that unsuccessful or humanity wouldn’t be here at all. Besides, I can personally attest to both of those tactics having succeeded on multiple occasions, with various women. One of the reasons is that women realize that men are intentionally acting like idiots as a means of catching attention and (hopefully) endearment, and more often than anyone will openly admit, it even works.
Many women tend to have either advantage, double proficiency, additional dice, or other bonuses on charisma checks against men (and some have all of that). That makes it more likely for them to pass their deception checks while pretending to not notice, not think it’s funny or charming, or to not be impressed. On top of that, many women have naturally high Passive Intimidation scores which results in many men being too insecure to make the attempts to impress them at all. That enables them to separate the wheat from the chaff without doing anything since they only need to consider those who are actually brave enough to try. (It’s an evolutionary thing to not find cowardice attractive.) Keep in mind that, whenever surveyed, women as a demographic consistently list the same two features as the overall “most attractive” qualities in men: Confidence, and Humor. Individual women like a great many different qualities in their menfolk, but the compiled evidence is overwhelming that a confident man who can make them laugh is statistically more likely draw positive female attention than physical appearance, individual Strength, personal wealth, or any other features.
A man doesn’t need to be handsome, rich, or buff. Confident and funny are often more successful than people realize. And those are two adjectives I doubt many people wold generally deny Han had. I mean, we are talking about Mr. “never tell me the odds” after all. (And that joke about knowing a few maneuvers!! Ha! He even delivered it with a straight face and everything. Hi—larious!) And after all, Han and Leia got married and had a family. He must not have been flirting that poorly after all. Ne?
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<reads "Deflects Missiles"> Huh, I guess you're right.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
He failed most checks to get Leia to fall in love with him. He just kept trying.
I'm still inclined to say her decision to claim him was more of a conscious roleplay choice on her part. Again with persuasion, in good faith, not being intended as an opposed role. She just eventually decided he was doing as good as he'd get and gave him a pass. Or maybe she finally failed a wisdom save against her true feelings or even passed a charisma save against her own pride concerning him being unworthy and admitted that she's actually into scruffy nerf herders. Seriously, they both clearly had the hots for each other from when they jumped into that garbage chute together, it was just a matter of them both admitting it (and he caved on that one first).
The dexterity checks he made with his space vehicle proficiency were far greater than 4. He 1) hid from a Star Destroyer by attaching to it, 2) made the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs, 3) flew through an Asteroid field, 4) piloted his way out of a space worm.
"I love you." "I know." Is him admitting it first?
See that's where I see Leia "claiming" Han (not sure I dig that verb to define Leia's choice). Let's keep in mind she's making that assertion after they've both been traumatized in an Imperial "interrogation/torture" chair (at least the last time Leia had a stint with Imperial intelligence, they actually wanted to know something, on Bespin Vader was just going medieval so that the pain could echo through the Force to Luke). Han's been selected for Anakin's carbon freeze nostalgia stunt, Chewie flips out and Han gets him to settle down telling his partner he needs to take care of Leia. Leia, whose relationship/regard to Chewie may actually be summed up in her calling him a walking carpet on Hoth(?, EDIT nope Death Star), recognizes Han sacrificing the short term "let's go down swinging" satisfaction and redirecting his partner to her protection. She sees his care, coupled with their current trauma, it's not an entirely surprising move ... though as the sequel trilogy probably indicates, also not the best foundation for a relationship.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.