Also worth noting that the sorcerer-as-kineticist is 100% utterly incapable of manipulating any object or entity weighing in excess of ten pounds until ninth level, when it can suddenly manipulate a thousand pounds. Ten pounds or under, or half a ton by the end of a campaign. No in between.
This is not how psykinetic characters work.
Unseen Servant is 30 pounds, Levitate is 500 lbs, Thunderwave doesn't even have a weight limit... I wouldn't mind buffing Catapult but that's plenty. And you can pick up Floating Disk too.
Also worth noting that the sorcerer-as-kineticist is 100% utterly incapable of manipulating any object or entity weighing in excess of ten pounds until ninth level, when it can suddenly manipulate a thousand pounds. Ten pounds or under, or half a ton by the end of a campaign. No in between.
This is not how psykinetic characters work.
Eh, it actually kind of is how they work in fiction, there are very few intermediate power telekinetic characters, but sure, it's not ideal for games. That doesn't actually require any new mechanics, it's just a few new spells, or a class/subclass feature that upgrades mage hand (the arcane trickster already does that).
Also worth noting that the sorcerer-as-kineticist is 100% utterly incapable of manipulating any object or entity weighing in excess of ten pounds until ninth level, when it can suddenly manipulate a thousand pounds. Ten pounds or under, or half a ton by the end of a campaign. No in between.
This is not how psykinetic characters work.
Eh, it actually kind of is how they work in fiction, there are very few intermediate power telekinetic characters, but sure, it's not ideal for games. That doesn't actually require any new mechanics, it's just a few new spells, or a class/subclass feature that upgrades mage hand (the arcane trickster already does that).
I already provided a list of spells which disproves this claim of no 1st through 3rd spells anyway.
you know what... I am half tempted to make Yureil's class in DnDB using Monk as a base. I own the 2nd ed Psionics handbook, all the Darksun books, and have been DMing longer than some here have been alive. I have the skill set needed. Hells in 2012 I even wrote an OGL book with custom classes and everything. Let me just grab my glasses and start a homebrewing a Monk Subclass "Psionicist"
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Writing 1/4 inspiration, 1/4 writing, 5/4's editing. ;p (math nerds your mind now hurts like a writers)
I guess we’re not going to get a straight answer as to why s Sorcerer can’t scratch that itch.
Seems like a waste of time to invest any more energy into this thread when Yurei isn’t going to answer such questions.
The answer was pretty straight forwarded above. The Sorcerer uses magic and a spell system that is not compatible with the sort of psionic character archetype they wish to play. It's like someone asking for a gazelle and being given a deer. It's similar, but not what is being asked for.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
I guess we’re not going to get a straight answer as to why s Sorcerer can’t scratch that itch.
Seems like a waste of time to invest any more energy into this thread when Yurei isn’t going to answer such questions.
The thread is going a million miles an hour and I have to post between calls at work from mobile, when posting on these forums from mobile is absolute torture. No, you're not going to get long intricate rewrites of answers I've already given you.
A sorcerer doesn't properly scratch the itch because its spellcasting is EXTREMELY inflexible, it's tremendously limited, and the spell selection for the class is not conducive to psykinetic characters. Rather than the ability feeling like a fluid, versatile power the character can use to solve problems creatively, the different sorcerer spells feel like bullets you shoot out of a gun labeled "PSYCHIC POWERS" that cannot be used creatively *at all*.
Can you use Catapult to hurl a grappling hook across a chasm or up a steep cliff to secure a line for climbing? Noooooooooooope. "The object takes ten billion damage and disintegrates from existence when the spell is done, Catapult can ONLY be used to throw random junk at bad guys".
Can you use Telekinesis to pull a stalactite down off the roof of a dragon's cave lair to impale the wyrm below as a means of harming the beast? Noooooooooooooooooooope. "Telekinesis can ONLY move single loose Large or smaller objects of one thousand pounds or less or equivalent creatures, and it can ONLY Move them harmlessly thirty feet or less!"
Are you allowed to use Mage Hand to silently slit the throat of a sleeping enemy sentry, using a small razor-sharp blade that requires way less than ten pounds of force to do the job? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooope. "That's an ATTACK ROLL, and Mage Hand can't be used for attack rolls!"
Fluidly using psykinetic abilities to creatively solve issues and manipulate one's environment is at the heart of what makes them so fun to play. And there is nothing "fluid" - whatsoever - about D&D spellcaster gameplay
. It's like someone asking for a gazelle and being given a deer. It's similar, but not what is being asked for.
I would say, more like, someone asking for a yellow unicorn, while blue, pink, and white unicorns are available, and the community is saying no unicorns.
--
Metaphor translation: Yellow being the pre-5e psionic, blue = mystic, pink = monk, white = all the psionic subclasses.
I guess we’re not going to get a straight answer as to why s Sorcerer can’t scratch that itch.
Seems like a waste of time to invest any more energy into this thread when Yurei isn’t going to answer such questions.
The thread is going a million miles an hour and I have to post between calls at work from mobile, when posting on these forums from mobile is absolute torture. No, you're not going to get long intricate rewrites of answers I've already given you.
A sorcerer doesn't properly scratch the itch because its spellcasting is EXTREMELY inflexible, it's tremendously limited, and the spell selection for the class is not conducive to psykinetic characters. Rather than the ability feeling like a fluid, versatile power the character can use to solve problems creatively, the different sorcerer spells feel like bullets you shoot out of a gun labeled "PSYCHIC POWERS" that cannot be used creatively *at all*.
Can you use Catapult to hurl a grappling hook across a chasm or up a steep cliff to secure a line for climbing? Noooooooooooope. "The object takes ten billion damage and disintegrates from existence when the spell is done, Catapult can ONLY be used to throw random junk at bad guys".
Can you use Telekinesis to pull a stalactite down off the roof of a dragon's cave lair to impale the wyrm below as a means of harming the beast? Noooooooooooooooooooope. "Telekinesis can ONLY move single loose Large or smaller objects of one thousand pounds or less or equivalent creatures, and it can ONLY Move them harmlessly thirty feet or less!"
Are you allowed to use Mage Hand to silently slit the throat of a sleeping enemy sentry, using a small razor-sharp blade that requires way less than ten pounds of force to do the job? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooope. "That's an ATTACK ROLL, and Mage Hand can't be used for attack rolls!"
Fluidly using psykinetic abilities to creatively solve issues and manipulate one's environment is at the heart of what makes them so fun to play. And there is nothing "fluid" - whatsoever - about D&D spellcaster gameplay
If that’s what you want, then it isn’t even really about Psionics. It is about magic being more flexible.
DnD does allow that if the GM is okay with it. But, you seem to want something that doesn’t depend on the GM. That’s never going to happen. The number crunching would be insane. How big is that stallactie? How securely attached is it? You’d need an advanced education in physics and. Chemistry. That’s not DnD’s market proposition. It is designed to be a player’s first RPG.
It simplifies by depending on the GM making calls.
I may have missed a post along the way, but nobody should be asking for a pre-5e Psionic, as mostly none of those designs were any better. And I'm even counting the 4th ed designs, which were the closest this deer ever got to being a gazelle.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
I guess we’re not going to get a straight answer as to why s Sorcerer can’t scratch that itch.
Seems like a waste of time to invest any more energy into this thread when Yurei isn’t going to answer such questions.
I think it would be more accurate to say based on the... manifesto that yurei has put forward that despite their protestations to the contrary they don't actually want to play D&D but rather something fundamentally different that has the name D&D bolted onto it.
Because they seem to despise everything about D&D's class system.
A sorcerer doesn't properly scratch the itch because its spellcasting is EXTREMELY inflexible, it's tremendously limited, and the spell selection for the class is not conducive to psykinetic characters. Rather than the ability feeling like a fluid, versatile power the character can use to solve problems creatively, the different sorcerer spells feel like bullets you shoot out of a gun labeled "PSYCHIC POWERS" that cannot be used creatively *at all*.
Can you use Catapult to hurl a grappling hook across a chasm or up a steep cliff to secure a line for climbing? Noooooooooooope. "The object takes ten billion damage and disintegrates from existence when the spell is done, Catapult can ONLY be used to throw random junk at bad guys".
Can you use Telekinesis to pull a stalactite down off the roof of a dragon's cave lair to impale the wyrm below as a means of harming the beast? Noooooooooooooooooooope. "Telekinesis can ONLY move single loose Large or smaller objects of one thousand pounds or less or equivalent creatures, and it can ONLY Move them harmlessly thirty feet or less!"
Are you allowed to use Mage Hand to silently slit the throat of a sleeping enemy sentry, using a small razor-sharp blade that requires way less than ten pounds of force to do the job? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooope. "That's an ATTACK ROLL, and Mage Hand can't be used for attack rolls!"
Fluidly using psykinetic abilities to creatively solve issues and manipulate one's environment is at the heart of what makes them so fun to play. And there is nothing "fluid" - whatsoever - about D&D spellcaster gameplay
1) You can absolutely Catapult a grappling hook. It's less than 5lbs, and it won't take any damage from the spell because that's not how grappling hooks work. You don't launch them into the thing you want to grab onto (a ledge, branch, boulder etc), you launch them past the thing and then hook as you pull it back, by which point the spell is over. And even if you do accidentally strike something, it's not going to take a million damage, it's going to take at most 3d8 bludgeoning which is likely to be ineffective against a lump of steel, unless your DM is equally prone to hyperbole.
2) If the stalactite wasn't loose you wouldn't be able to pull it down as a psion either, it would be part of the cave/terrain and you'd need to loosen it first. And if it is loose, TK will work on it just fine.
3) The system doesn't want anyone slitting throats at range, that's why the coup de grace rules require you to be within 5ft.
4) If you can't use sorcerer spells creatively the problem is with your creativity (or your DM), not the class.
A sorcerer doesn't properly scratch the itch because its spellcasting is EXTREMELY inflexible, it's tremendously limited, and the spell selection for the class is not conducive to psykinetic characters. Rather than the ability feeling like a fluid, versatile power the character can use to solve problems creatively, the different sorcerer spells feel like bullets you shoot out of a gun labeled "PSYCHIC POWERS" that cannot be used creatively *at all*.
You have described every power in D&D. Fundamentally what you're looking for is a powers system with power stunting, and while those do exist... they don't exist in D&D.
Could D&D have a power system? Sure. It's just a Very Big Project, and it wouldn't be a 'psi' system, it would be a powers system that happens to work for psi.
Opinion not justified by facts. I'd certainly allow it. I somewhat feel that your existing play group is toxic, because a lot of the things that you complain about (not limited to psi)... simply don't match my experiences about how people actually play the game.
A lot of this goes back into a mounting suspicion that I have about Yurei based on questions and comments that they've made over the last few days: I don't know that they've actually had that much expierience with 5th edition and how it is played in a real world sense; Like they were inferring that subclasses don't actually change or impact the core class that they come from at one point.
Also the Abberant mind is not typically some hideous mutant as they seem convinced which they would have learned if they actually read the material instead of looking for all the ways it isn't their precious psion.
Just wanted to address these two comments, so it is convenient that they are in a quote block for me:
I am playing in a 5e game with Yurei right now and everyone at the table (including her) is extremely chill. Several of the people in this group are carryovers from previous games, of which Yurei is included. I am a newcomer to this table. So Yurei has played at least two games recently and my experience with this group is everyone is pretty kind, considerate of others, and generally reasonably knowledgeable on their own PCs and their abilities.
I guess we’re not going to get a straight answer as to why s Sorcerer can’t scratch that itch.
Seems like a waste of time to invest any more energy into this thread when Yurei isn’t going to answer such questions.
I think it would be more accurate to say based on the... manifesto that yurei has put forward that despite their protestations to the contrary they don't actually want to play D&D but rather something fundamentally different that has the name D&D bolted onto it.
Because they seem to despise everything about D&D's class system.
I'm fairly certain a couple of years ago they had signed up to a discord game I was pushed into the DMs seat of, during my "I'm totally done with DMing phase." Sadly the setting was one I wanted to run, sort of a Shadowrun meets a Korean Gameworld is the real world setting. Sadly I was pushed into it way before the setting had been fully cooked, and I was totally not mentally in a DMing place. Plus the people doing the pushing wanted Play by post on discord, and I'm a face to face DM, play by post kind of kills my ability to focus on what is happening.
Also right now I'm building a "Psionist" out of a way of 4 elements monk. Honestly much easier than planned. However it will have spell slots for ease of DnDB integration, and so the spells show up in the spell list.
For a list of abilities, I'm using the AD&D book for the greatest amount of abilities.
Nothing is pointless, everything matters. Don't let the naysayers get you down. While it's not the easiest ask, and honestly the easy answer is to use what has been given. Sometimes what is needed is a bit of caffeine and motivation. I'm building your Homebrew class in DnDB right now. Well an AD&D Psionicist meets Monk way of the 4 elements. I'm replacing the monk spells with psionic disciplines.
Ashla, you have made it perfectly plain that you believe psychic abilities have no place in D&D, and that you believe I've never played a game of D&D before due to not believing that bolting a single random weird gimmick to one side of a core class offers a dramatic and meaningful shift in that class's play flow.
I've literally pointed out that there is a whole setting that was built for it and let me assure you I really do like it and how Psionics are a part of it.
As to not believing you: you've given me little reason to based on your comments and lack of understanding of how whole swathes of classes work.
You want to know what I mean when I say *meaningful* changes? Do a ranger subclass that implements the core idea of the Spell-less Ranger - the sub entirely removes spellcasting and replaces it with a powerful Superiority system and additional martial capabilities.
Can you clarify what that would mean and how it wouldn't just be a battlemaster archer?
Do a Bladesinger that turns the wizard into a half-caster that can mingle leveled spellcasting and martial swordplay in the same turn, implementing spellblade abilities *properly*.
Why do you need that when there are other half classes that can credibly perform that role (IE valor bard, Hexblade)
Do a sorcerer that removes spell slots entirely, instead allowing the sorcerer to make a casting roll to successfully cast their spells - their magic isn't 100% reliable but they can cast without limit.
This sounds like an utter disaster to try and balance and/or make work in anything approaching a timely fashion.
Things that CHANGE THE RULES, not just bolt a small handful of extra actions onto an otherwise ironclad, utterly rigid and inflexible chassis. THEN subclasses could be used to reduce class bloat the way people keep saying they do. But until subclasses are allowed to do that? They're utterly useless for changing up the game flow and feel of a class.
What you're proposing would make the game an absolute nightmare hellscape of rules inconsistancies that would grind the game to a halt as players and GM's try to parse out how anything actually happens.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: you should be playing literally anything else because you apparently don't like D&D.
Despite some of Yurei’s examples of "meaningful”, which I assume was off the top of their head and not a fully fleshed out and tested system, I kind of agree with her. A barbarian will, the vast majority of the time, get angry, scream, and swing their greataxe recklessly no matter the subclass. It’s just the subclasses tack on a few other things like being resistant to more damage types, etc.
And I would also like to see a psychic class in the game. I just don’t see it coming in 5E. Too much of what a psi class would have as class feature are covered by spells. But I really do think the only way to separate a psi class from just being a wizard but worse is to remove all of those spells and feats that replicate a psi class feature from the game. And anything close to that would be in a 6E unfortunately.
Despite some of Yurei’s examples of "meaningful”, which I assume was off the top of their head and not a fully fleshed out and tested system, I kind of agree with her. A barbarian will, the vast majority of the time, get angry, scream, and swing their greataxe recklessly no matter the subclass. It’s just the subclasses tack on a few other things like being resistant to more damage types, etc.
And I would also like to see a psychic class in the game. I just don’t see it coming in 5E. Too much of what a psi class would have as class feature are covered by spells. But I really do think the only way to separate a psi class from just being a wizard but worse is to remove all of those spells and feats that replicate a psi class feature from the game. And anything close to that would be in a 6E unfortunately.
To the first part: yes, Classes do in fact play like classes. If we were stuck with like... 4 that had no internal variation then you might have a point but that's simply not the case. A fighter, a paladin and a barbarian are all going to functionally play differently even if they are all performing the same role as a front line brick for the rest of the party. Further, having the sub-classes offering variations on the core theme means that there is less time wasted on people trying to parse out how they actually work and interact with the world around them.
As to Psionics being it's own thing... there are simply too many problems with trying to implement it as a non-casting class; Like to make say.... a telepath work you'd need to canabalize the enchantment and divination trees since those are the ones that cover effecting others mental states which means that you either have a character that has an incredibly limited set of options relative to a wizard/sorcerer or you need to remove those spells/abilities from those classes in which case you are making them worse to justify the existence of a psychic class.
None of this is saying that it's simply impossible to do this, but rather that it would require a monumental amount of effort on the part of WotC (who let's be honest are not exactly inspiring confidence atm) to create a whole new system to appeal to a niche player base to say nothing of how their are other systems out there that simply handle psionics far better then D&D.
...which means that you either have a character that has an incredibly limited set of options relative to a wizard/sorcerer or you need to remove those spells/abilities from those classes in which case you are making them worse to justify the existence of a psychic class.
It's almost like the martial/caster divide is actually an everyone/caster divide. Like the spell system is, itself, the problem. Even WotC seems to be drifting in the direction of "just give everyone some magic" to keep play balanced and happy (I mean, not quite, but feats like Magic Initiate and other stuff point to "anyone can have some magic identity if they want").
And in a magical world where "magic" is kinda "everything," it's naturally going to be even harder to build character concepts around "no magic, no, really." Of course psionics would end up being reskinned magic, and have all the same "specialists suck when most casters are super-generalists" problem.
Which is not to say that the idea of psionics in D&D is bad. Just to say "D&D has all sorts of problems that get in the way."
A question, the "cultivators" from xianxia fiction, are they psionic manifesters? If holographic runes appear when they are casting some power then it is not psionic, but if they don't use material, verbal or somatic components, then we could say they are psions.
And a system of psionic powers could be the best option to add "superheroes" like the X-Men.
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Unseen Servant is 30 pounds, Levitate is 500 lbs, Thunderwave doesn't even have a weight limit... I wouldn't mind buffing Catapult but that's plenty. And you can pick up Floating Disk too.
Eh, it actually kind of is how they work in fiction, there are very few intermediate power telekinetic characters, but sure, it's not ideal for games. That doesn't actually require any new mechanics, it's just a few new spells, or a class/subclass feature that upgrades mage hand (the arcane trickster already does that).
I already provided a list of spells which disproves this claim of no 1st through 3rd spells anyway.
you know what... I am half tempted to make Yureil's class in DnDB using Monk as a base. I own the 2nd ed Psionics handbook, all the Darksun books, and have been DMing longer than some here have been alive. I have the skill set needed. Hells in 2012 I even wrote an OGL book with custom classes and everything. Let me just grab my glasses and start a homebrewing a Monk Subclass "Psionicist"
---
Writing 1/4 inspiration, 1/4 writing, 5/4's editing. ;p (math nerds your mind now hurts like a writers)
The answer was pretty straight forwarded above. The Sorcerer uses magic and a spell system that is not compatible with the sort of psionic character archetype they wish to play. It's like someone asking for a gazelle and being given a deer. It's similar, but not what is being asked for.
The thread is going a million miles an hour and I have to post between calls at work from mobile, when posting on these forums from mobile is absolute torture. No, you're not going to get long intricate rewrites of answers I've already given you.
A sorcerer doesn't properly scratch the itch because its spellcasting is EXTREMELY inflexible, it's tremendously limited, and the spell selection for the class is not conducive to psykinetic characters. Rather than the ability feeling like a fluid, versatile power the character can use to solve problems creatively, the different sorcerer spells feel like bullets you shoot out of a gun labeled "PSYCHIC POWERS" that cannot be used creatively *at all*.
Can you use Catapult to hurl a grappling hook across a chasm or up a steep cliff to secure a line for climbing? Noooooooooooope. "The object takes ten billion damage and disintegrates from existence when the spell is done, Catapult can ONLY be used to throw random junk at bad guys".
Can you use Telekinesis to pull a stalactite down off the roof of a dragon's cave lair to impale the wyrm below as a means of harming the beast? Noooooooooooooooooooope. "Telekinesis can ONLY move single loose Large or smaller objects of one thousand pounds or less or equivalent creatures, and it can ONLY Move them harmlessly thirty feet or less!"
Are you allowed to use Mage Hand to silently slit the throat of a sleeping enemy sentry, using a small razor-sharp blade that requires way less than ten pounds of force to do the job? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooope. "That's an ATTACK ROLL, and Mage Hand can't be used for attack rolls!"
Fluidly using psykinetic abilities to creatively solve issues and manipulate one's environment is at the heart of what makes them so fun to play. And there is nothing "fluid" - whatsoever - about D&D spellcaster gameplay
Please do not contact or message me.
I would say, more like, someone asking for a yellow unicorn, while blue, pink, and white unicorns are available, and the community is saying no unicorns.
--
Metaphor translation: Yellow being the pre-5e psionic, blue = mystic, pink = monk, white = all the psionic subclasses.
If that’s what you want, then it isn’t even really about Psionics. It is about magic being more flexible.
DnD does allow that if the GM is okay with it. But, you seem to want something that doesn’t depend on the GM. That’s never going to happen. The number crunching would be insane. How big is that stallactie? How securely attached is it? You’d need an advanced education in physics and. Chemistry. That’s not DnD’s market proposition. It is designed to be a player’s first RPG.
It simplifies by depending on the GM making calls.
I may have missed a post along the way, but nobody should be asking for a pre-5e Psionic, as mostly none of those designs were any better. And I'm even counting the 4th ed designs, which were the closest this deer ever got to being a gazelle.
I think it would be more accurate to say based on the... manifesto that yurei has put forward that despite their protestations to the contrary they don't actually want to play D&D but rather something fundamentally different that has the name D&D bolted onto it.
Because they seem to despise everything about D&D's class system.
1) You can absolutely Catapult a grappling hook. It's less than 5lbs, and it won't take any damage from the spell because that's not how grappling hooks work. You don't launch them into the thing you want to grab onto (a ledge, branch, boulder etc), you launch them past the thing and then hook as you pull it back, by which point the spell is over. And even if you do accidentally strike something, it's not going to take a million damage, it's going to take at most 3d8 bludgeoning which is likely to be ineffective against a lump of steel, unless your DM is equally prone to hyperbole.
2) If the stalactite wasn't loose you wouldn't be able to pull it down as a psion either, it would be part of the cave/terrain and you'd need to loosen it first. And if it is loose, TK will work on it just fine.
3) The system doesn't want anyone slitting throats at range, that's why the coup de grace rules require you to be within 5ft.
4) If you can't use sorcerer spells creatively the problem is with your creativity (or your DM), not the class.
You have described every power in D&D. Fundamentally what you're looking for is a powers system with power stunting, and while those do exist... they don't exist in D&D.
Could D&D have a power system? Sure. It's just a Very Big Project, and it wouldn't be a 'psi' system, it would be a powers system that happens to work for psi.
Just wanted to address these two comments, so it is convenient that they are in a quote block for me:
I am playing in a 5e game with Yurei right now and everyone at the table (including her) is extremely chill. Several of the people in this group are carryovers from previous games, of which Yurei is included. I am a newcomer to this table. So Yurei has played at least two games recently and my experience with this group is everyone is pretty kind, considerate of others, and generally reasonably knowledgeable on their own PCs and their abilities.
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Never mind. Whatever. All pointless anyway.
Please do not contact or message me.
I'm fairly certain a couple of years ago they had signed up to a discord game I was pushed into the DMs seat of, during my "I'm totally done with DMing phase." Sadly the setting was one I wanted to run, sort of a Shadowrun meets a Korean Gameworld is the real world setting. Sadly I was pushed into it way before the setting had been fully cooked, and I was totally not mentally in a DMing place. Plus the people doing the pushing wanted Play by post on discord, and I'm a face to face DM, play by post kind of kills my ability to focus on what is happening.
Also right now I'm building a "Psionist" out of a way of 4 elements monk. Honestly much easier than planned. However it will have spell slots for ease of DnDB integration, and so the spells show up in the spell list.
For a list of abilities, I'm using the AD&D book for the greatest amount of abilities.
Nothing is pointless, everything matters. Don't let the naysayers get you down. While it's not the easiest ask, and honestly the easy answer is to use what has been given. Sometimes what is needed is a bit of caffeine and motivation. I'm building your Homebrew class in DnDB right now. Well an AD&D Psionicist meets Monk way of the 4 elements. I'm replacing the monk spells with psionic disciplines.
Specifically:
Clairsentient Devotions, Psychokinetic Devotions, Psychometabolic Devotions, Telepathic Devotions, and Psychoportive Devotions.
Despite some of Yurei’s examples of "meaningful”, which I assume was off the top of their head and not a fully fleshed out and tested system, I kind of agree with her. A barbarian will, the vast majority of the time, get angry, scream, and swing their greataxe recklessly no matter the subclass. It’s just the subclasses tack on a few other things like being resistant to more damage types, etc.
And I would also like to see a psychic class in the game. I just don’t see it coming in 5E. Too much of what a psi class would have as class feature are covered by spells. But I really do think the only way to separate a psi class from just being a wizard but worse is to remove all of those spells and feats that replicate a psi class feature from the game. And anything close to that would be in a 6E unfortunately.
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To the first part: yes, Classes do in fact play like classes. If we were stuck with like... 4 that had no internal variation then you might have a point but that's simply not the case. A fighter, a paladin and a barbarian are all going to functionally play differently even if they are all performing the same role as a front line brick for the rest of the party. Further, having the sub-classes offering variations on the core theme means that there is less time wasted on people trying to parse out how they actually work and interact with the world around them.
As to Psionics being it's own thing... there are simply too many problems with trying to implement it as a non-casting class; Like to make say.... a telepath work you'd need to canabalize the enchantment and divination trees since those are the ones that cover effecting others mental states which means that you either have a character that has an incredibly limited set of options relative to a wizard/sorcerer or you need to remove those spells/abilities from those classes in which case you are making them worse to justify the existence of a psychic class.
None of this is saying that it's simply impossible to do this, but rather that it would require a monumental amount of effort on the part of WotC (who let's be honest are not exactly inspiring confidence atm) to create a whole new system to appeal to a niche player base to say nothing of how their are other systems out there that simply handle psionics far better then D&D.
It's almost like the martial/caster divide is actually an everyone/caster divide. Like the spell system is, itself, the problem. Even WotC seems to be drifting in the direction of "just give everyone some magic" to keep play balanced and happy (I mean, not quite, but feats like Magic Initiate and other stuff point to "anyone can have some magic identity if they want").
And in a magical world where "magic" is kinda "everything," it's naturally going to be even harder to build character concepts around "no magic, no, really." Of course psionics would end up being reskinned magic, and have all the same "specialists suck when most casters are super-generalists" problem.
Which is not to say that the idea of psionics in D&D is bad. Just to say "D&D has all sorts of problems that get in the way."
A question, the "cultivators" from xianxia fiction, are they psionic manifesters? If holographic runes appear when they are casting some power then it is not psionic, but if they don't use material, verbal or somatic components, then we could say they are psions.
And a system of psionic powers could be the best option to add "superheroes" like the X-Men.