Honestly, if they provided examples of their DMing and broke down the costs involved, I wouldn't mind it at all!. I have had an absolutely awful time trying to find games to play in and being able to pay for the service of having one run for me and friends would be something I'm willing to look into. There's a much lower supply of DMs willing to run online games than the demand for them - and there's usually no quality control for the DMs that are willing to run games.
If I could spend some money to know for a fact i'd get a fun several hour experience, that seems reasonable. You pay way more for theme park tickets for example, but you may end up with less time spent enjoying yourself if the weather turns, or the rides shut down, or you get over heated / hungry / hurt and have to leave, etc. $25 for a solid block of time I know for a fact I'll enjoy with a vet-able DM is an absolute steal by comparison.
The cure for this is quite simple: stop being just a player, step up to the big chair and DM.
Yes, there is a disparity in numbers of players versus the number of DMs. That has existed since the referees of Kreigspiel were highly sought after in the 1800s. It takes work to be a DM, and like any other art not everyone does it in the same way or presents the product in the same way. Moreover, the more practice they get the better they get.
Take me for instance, I am a DM (99% of the time) but I don't do terrain or voices, I personally HATE traps and riddles and often don't plan a single thing for a session. I prefer Theater of the Mind (I grew up very poor and all that 3D stuff was too expensive), and I do a serviceable job with NPCs without sounding like a fool. If I put your PC in a trap, I am not ever going to think of a way out of it...that is your job. Likewise, because I think riddles are silly, you might never come across one scrawled in blood on the walls of the forlorn keep. BUT, and a big but there, I plan...and draft...a lot before the game begins so that if I need to, I can just wing it on a Friday night or when the Party turns left and not right at the fork.
Would my play style please everyone? No. It doesn't have to. If a player doesn't like the way I run my game, they can walk. Another one of them will be along in a minute to replace them. Hopefully, they find a DM that runs a game they way they like. Odds are they won't though. So, I return to my initial advice: run games yourself.
Though I am not sure if I am misreading your intent. I do agree with the general Idea. I am lucky enough to have two friends that all GM and we each have our own style.
The first one is big into a planned story, with 3D models and often throws things like Iron Golem if we venture outside of his planned story. He is very detailed and writes out everything that the players are going to learn that session. He even 3D prints our environments.
The second one is less of a fan of D&D and likes to run other games using other RPG's, he's a lot more freeform, I don't think he really plans that far ahead. He has a general idea and just wings whatever the players do. He and I are both very lazy when it comes to presentation though, we kinda just you a blank gridded mat and that's it.
Lastly, you have me, I spend months developing a world, then I develop hundreds of NPC's, then I develop the Big Bads. Then I give them a quest. Once all of that is done, I pick a random city in the world, drop the NPC's there. I develop an intro and a few side quests or starting quests. After each session, I update the world, I say what a lot of the Major NPC's did, What the Big Bads Did, and what the players did. One of my campaigns is about 93 pages a long of history and the players never once interacted with the Big Bad's (while not in the way they were supposed to, they actually ended up doing a missing for them that helped the bad guys... they felt really bad about that sessions later when they realized.)
My only issue with what you said or maybe its how I read it, you made it sound like, why should you be willing to be flexible for the player's sake since you are more than likely to find a replacement where they may not. Even though I personally probably wouldn't mind your style of DMing, I would probably not stay simply because it's my way or the high way approach with what seems like zero consideration for your tables personal playstyles just sounds unfun.
Though I am not sure if I am misreading your intent. I do agree with the general Idea. I am lucky enough to have two friends that all GM and we each have our own style.
My only issue with what you said or maybe its how I read it, you made it sound like, why should you be willing to be flexible for the player's sake since you are more than likely to find a replacement where they may not. Even though I personally probably wouldn't mind your style of DMing, I would probably not stay simply because it's my way or the high way approach with what seems like zero consideration for your tables personal playstyles just sounds unfun.
I know it sounds harsh. Reality is harsh. Go to Fantasy Grounds, Roll20, this site's LFG section, or any one of a hundred other places and post that a new game is starting. Put in as little as name of game system and days and hours you are running the game and I guarantee you will be absolutely inundated with replies, queries, full on info dumps with attached character sheets and backstories, a few links to YouTube videos showing people in costume LARPing their PC for you, and DMs desperately asking for inclusion.
Given this, I can't think of any other way to say it, abundant bounty of available players why wouldn't I actively select and retain only those players that I enjoyed playing with. If my style, which is not as adversarial as this post makes it out to be. Far from it, I adore my players and rejoice when their characters triumph and suffer when ills strike them low. But, I am not going to change how I prepare or conduct my game.
A player, introduced to D&D by the plethora of streams, might expect me to be "bells and whistles and even lasers and dynamite!" and grumble how this was "not how I thought D&D was..." I will simply tell them that that I am not Matt Mercer or Chris Perkins, D&D is not my job, and I lack and have no desire to assemble the production staff to assemble and craft the sets that they see on YouTube. I am not a professional voice actor nor am I a improvisational comedian and I will not try to be those things just to please a player. I will not purchase either a several hundred dollar 3D printer, designs and cartridges for making minis and terrain. I will use the tools at my disposal: several Chessex mats, colored wet erase markers, Flip Mats, ArcKnight Flat Plastic Minis, and the extremely potent tool of my player's imaginations to visualize of the world their characters inhabit based on the descriptions I give.
Do I think that I make the game unfun? Not really. Is there a level of "my way or the highway?" Yes, because that is factual. I have several friends that I enjoy being with that I cannot either game for or with because what we want is so divergent. The great thing about our hobby is that at this time, more than any other, new venues exist. And if you can't find a DM you like to play with...run a game yourself.
I know it sounds harsh. Reality is harsh. Go to Fantasy Grounds, Roll20, this site's LFG section, or any one of a hundred other places and post that a new game is starting. Put in as little as name of game system and days and hours you are running the game and I guarantee you will be absolutely inundated with replies, queries, full on info dumps with attached character sheets and backstories, a few links to YouTube videos showing people in costume LARPing their PC for you, and DMs desperately asking for inclusion.
You re telling me, if I open a thread with "here GM, and I open a new group with adventure xy", I will be buried in requests? * doubt* *jk* :P
Yeah in my city we have maybe max 6 GM (I am one of them). I have already 7 regular groups and at my limit (still have a job and a family). Still I get tons of applications for new players I cant GM for. Without bolstering but with 16 years of GMing in different systems and many campaign (and thanks to theater-school and part time writer), I am beloved in the RPG community here. But I am only one person
Already spoken to other GMs (who are brilliant GMs themself and I am lucky to atleast play as player in one of their campaign)but they are at their limits too.
My "new" strategy is to cultivate new GMs out of my players. So far I got 2 new GMs over 1 year span. Not much, but in the long run we can maybe damp this player-tsunami.
One mistake they make, is to compare their GM-Style to us veteran GM and get demoralized and stop GMing. We have 15+ years experience... no GM is born in one day
I can understand a DM wanting to recover their costs for things like renting a venue, extra sourcebooks to share with the group, spare dice, maps and stationary, travel fare, etc. But really that is all it should be: recovering the costs. It's a game - I'm not employing somebody, just helping with the costs because it helps me too. There's a club in town here that used to run a session every month - it was about $5 (equivalent, since we actually use £ here and it was £3). with first session free. It did OK but not enough people interested in D&D so they now usually run other games. But that seemed very reasonable.
Unless a celebrity or something I wouldn't pay $25 per session unless there was a super good reason because that's a lot of money to just a play a game that doesn't cost that much to organise and play. Not when you could, at end of day, just go on Roll20 and play for free.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
My LFG occasionally has events that require an entry fee. The fee secures you a spot at the table, a bottle drink and a buffet of snacks for a 4 hour session. These are usually AL modules run by the employees of the store or sometimes we will have guest game designers run one-shots of their systems for us to try out. These events make the store extra money and help keep the gaming tables free to play on weekends (there's no time slot rentals or table rentals at our store, just first come first serve), so I really don't mind. Also get food for a comfortable evening of gaming :)
I am a DM. I have limited time because DM'ing is not my job, so I run existing modules for my friends. I am not a voice actor, nor am I skilled at improvisation. My best sessions are those where I anticipated what the players would do and had good notes prepared. My worst sessions are those where the players went left when I prepared right. I did my best, but the session was nothing to rave about.
I also pay to D&D. At first I was hesitant to pay for what I could get for free. And I did try. 2 different campaigns in about 2 months with 2 DM's. Same story... revolving door of players. It wrecks the immersion when the fighter from last week is gone and instead there's a wizard joining the group with no context. And ultimately the DM's quit after spending all that time recruiting instead of preparing.
The D&D sessions that I pay for, are just not comparable. To the best of my knowledge, the DM does this full time. It is her job. She has 1 crafted world, 5 or 6 different groups all playing in that world concurrently (on different days of the week). The level of detail, the skill, the preparedness (or skilled improvisation) are just not comparable. Compared to the cost of a night out to the movies, I get 4 hours of amazing.
I wouldn't pay to play the games I DM. But I definitely pay to play with my DM, because what she provides is worth it.
And there's nothing anyone else can say. If there is demand for skilled DM's, there will be DM's that charge for their services. And there's plenty of demand.
I own and operate a comic/Game store, we currently run x3 D&D campaigns a week all 3 hr session with a max of 7 players. We Charge each player a prepaid $2 drop-in fee, to reserve a space for the next week (it all goes to the DM) We also charge a $2 fee to print and/or level a character.
That's a totally reasonable rate and sounds like it would be fun. I definitely think that DMs should get paid because their job is thankless. But, if the DM isn't on point, dis-organized or isn't what they say it is, I have a hard time justifying the pay-to-play part. I'm not a hardcore player, but totally understand that there are thousands of people online and elsewhere looking to play. A DM should totally get paid to do the job, especially if they're getting involved in mapmaking, minis or the bells and whistles. It's no different than buskers in the subway or open mic nights. If you enjoy what is presented, you should throw coin (paper) into the tip jar/guitar case. They are bringing us enjoyment and deserve to get paid, BUT the online experience is much different than in real life.
I've played a few campaigns online now.
One was disorganized, started late and had numerous tech glitches that made it unbearable. Another one was stellar and I am totally down to pay the DM for the amount of effort that has gone into it.
It's hard to find a good group where you totally get along with everyone and the teamwork is seemless. Anyway, DMs that are busting butt to bring out the awesome damn well deserve a payday, in my opinion.
As a DM with 30+ years experience I agree cultivating the next generation of DMs is essential. I currently run 2 campaigns (1 adult and 1 mature)at my store. I have a young adult, who I have running a third campain Saturday afternoon (10-15 age group) If I didnt charge a $2 drop in fee per player it would almost be free babysitting. He's able to borrow the vast amount of supplies I acquired over my lifetime of playing, which makes his games more exciting for the young kids he's now DMing.
I'm new to d&d but I think I would've opted for a professional dm if I wasn't so darn interested in DM-ing myself. I've only been DM-ing for 2 months but it's a lot of work for a newbie. The amount of knowledge is overwhelming, only someone who's had a lifetime of studying could learn it all by heart. There's a lot of improv going into it as well which requires experience and a butt-load of creative talent. You're also a story teller, kind of like a director and producer and actor all at the same time, if I wasn't doing this for my friends I'd probably be charging people a dollar just to make me feel like its worth while.
The cure for this is quite simple: stop being just a player, step up to the big chair and DM.
Yes, there is a disparity in numbers of players versus the number of DMs. That has existed since the referees of Kreigspiel were highly sought after in the 1800s. It takes work to be a DM, and like any other art not everyone does it in the same way or presents the product in the same way. Moreover, the more practice they get the better they get.
Take me for instance, I am a DM (99% of the time) but I don't do terrain or voices, I personally HATE traps and riddles and often don't plan a single thing for a session. I prefer Theater of the Mind (I grew up very poor and all that 3D stuff was too expensive), and I do a serviceable job with NPCs without sounding like a fool. If I put your PC in a trap, I am not ever going to think of a way out of it...that is your job. Likewise, because I think riddles are silly, you might never come across one scrawled in blood on the walls of the forlorn keep. BUT, and a big but there, I plan...and draft...a lot before the game begins so that if I need to, I can just wing it on a Friday night or when the Party turns left and not right at the fork.
Would my play style please everyone? No. It doesn't have to. If a player doesn't like the way I run my game, they can walk. Another one of them will be along in a minute to replace them. Hopefully, they find a DM that runs a game they way they like. Odds are they won't though. So, I return to my initial advice: run games yourself.
Though I am not sure if I am misreading your intent. I do agree with the general Idea. I am lucky enough to have two friends that all GM and we each have our own style.
The first one is big into a planned story, with 3D models and often throws things like Iron Golem if we venture outside of his planned story. He is very detailed and writes out everything that the players are going to learn that session. He even 3D prints our environments.
The second one is less of a fan of D&D and likes to run other games using other RPG's, he's a lot more freeform, I don't think he really plans that far ahead. He has a general idea and just wings whatever the players do. He and I are both very lazy when it comes to presentation though, we kinda just you a blank gridded mat and that's it.
Lastly, you have me, I spend months developing a world, then I develop hundreds of NPC's, then I develop the Big Bads. Then I give them a quest. Once all of that is done, I pick a random city in the world, drop the NPC's there. I develop an intro and a few side quests or starting quests. After each session, I update the world, I say what a lot of the Major NPC's did, What the Big Bads Did, and what the players did. One of my campaigns is about 93 pages a long of history and the players never once interacted with the Big Bad's (while not in the way they were supposed to, they actually ended up doing a missing for them that helped the bad guys... they felt really bad about that sessions later when they realized.)
My only issue with what you said or maybe its how I read it, you made it sound like, why should you be willing to be flexible for the player's sake since you are more than likely to find a replacement where they may not. Even though I personally probably wouldn't mind your style of DMing, I would probably not stay simply because it's my way or the high way approach with what seems like zero consideration for your tables personal playstyles just sounds unfun.
As much as I would love to contribute to the DM's creativity, I'm not in a position to pay for much of anything these days.
For a one-shot, it might be worth the $25, depending on where the event took place and if there were things included, I guess.
Definitely not for a campaign.
I know it sounds harsh. Reality is harsh. Go to Fantasy Grounds, Roll20, this site's LFG section, or any one of a hundred other places and post that a new game is starting. Put in as little as name of game system and days and hours you are running the game and I guarantee you will be absolutely inundated with replies, queries, full on info dumps with attached character sheets and backstories, a few links to YouTube videos showing people in costume LARPing their PC for you, and DMs desperately asking for inclusion.
Given this, I can't think of any other way to say it, abundant bounty of available players why wouldn't I actively select and retain only those players that I enjoyed playing with. If my style, which is not as adversarial as this post makes it out to be. Far from it, I adore my players and rejoice when their characters triumph and suffer when ills strike them low. But, I am not going to change how I prepare or conduct my game.
A player, introduced to D&D by the plethora of streams, might expect me to be "bells and whistles and even lasers and dynamite!" and grumble how this was "not how I thought D&D was..." I will simply tell them that that I am not Matt Mercer or Chris Perkins, D&D is not my job, and I lack and have no desire to assemble the production staff to assemble and craft the sets that they see on YouTube. I am not a professional voice actor nor am I a improvisational comedian and I will not try to be those things just to please a player. I will not purchase either a several hundred dollar 3D printer, designs and cartridges for making minis and terrain. I will use the tools at my disposal: several Chessex mats, colored wet erase markers, Flip Mats, ArcKnight Flat Plastic Minis, and the extremely potent tool of my player's imaginations to visualize of the world their characters inhabit based on the descriptions I give.
Do I think that I make the game unfun? Not really. Is there a level of "my way or the highway?" Yes, because that is factual. I have several friends that I enjoy being with that I cannot either game for or with because what we want is so divergent. The great thing about our hobby is that at this time, more than any other, new venues exist. And if you can't find a DM you like to play with...run a game yourself.
You re telling me, if I open a thread with "here GM, and I open a new group with adventure xy", I will be buried in requests? * doubt* *jk* :P
Yeah in my city we have maybe max 6 GM (I am one of them). I have already 7 regular groups and at my limit (still have a job and a family). Still I get tons of applications for new players I cant GM for. Without bolstering but with 16 years of GMing in different systems and many campaign (and thanks to theater-school and part time writer), I am beloved in the RPG community here. But I am only one person
Already spoken to other GMs (who are brilliant GMs themself and I am lucky to atleast play as player in one of their campaign)but they are at their limits too.
My "new" strategy is to cultivate new GMs out of my players. So far I got 2 new GMs over 1 year span. Not much, but in the long run we can maybe damp this player-tsunami.
One mistake they make, is to compare their GM-Style to us veteran GM and get demoralized and stop GMing. We have 15+ years experience... no GM is born in one day
Homebrew I share:
Demonic Houndmaster
I can understand a DM wanting to recover their costs for things like renting a venue, extra sourcebooks to share with the group, spare dice, maps and stationary, travel fare, etc. But really that is all it should be: recovering the costs. It's a game - I'm not employing somebody, just helping with the costs because it helps me too. There's a club in town here that used to run a session every month - it was about $5 (equivalent, since we actually use £ here and it was £3). with first session free. It did OK but not enough people interested in D&D so they now usually run other games. But that seemed very reasonable.
Unless a celebrity or something I wouldn't pay $25 per session unless there was a super good reason because that's a lot of money to just a play a game that doesn't cost that much to organise and play. Not when you could, at end of day, just go on Roll20 and play for free.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
My LFG occasionally has events that require an entry fee. The fee secures you a spot at the table, a bottle drink and a buffet of snacks for a 4 hour session. These are usually AL modules run by the employees of the store or sometimes we will have guest game designers run one-shots of their systems for us to try out. These events make the store extra money and help keep the gaming tables free to play on weekends (there's no time slot rentals or table rentals at our store, just first come first serve), so I really don't mind. Also get food for a comfortable evening of gaming :)
I am a DM. I have limited time because DM'ing is not my job, so I run existing modules for my friends. I am not a voice actor, nor am I skilled at improvisation. My best sessions are those where I anticipated what the players would do and had good notes prepared. My worst sessions are those where the players went left when I prepared right. I did my best, but the session was nothing to rave about.
I also pay to D&D. At first I was hesitant to pay for what I could get for free. And I did try. 2 different campaigns in about 2 months with 2 DM's. Same story... revolving door of players. It wrecks the immersion when the fighter from last week is gone and instead there's a wizard joining the group with no context. And ultimately the DM's quit after spending all that time recruiting instead of preparing.
The D&D sessions that I pay for, are just not comparable. To the best of my knowledge, the DM does this full time. It is her job. She has 1 crafted world, 5 or 6 different groups all playing in that world concurrently (on different days of the week). The level of detail, the skill, the preparedness (or skilled improvisation) are just not comparable. Compared to the cost of a night out to the movies, I get 4 hours of amazing.
I wouldn't pay to play the games I DM. But I definitely pay to play with my DM, because what she provides is worth it.
And there's nothing anyone else can say. If there is demand for skilled DM's, there will be DM's that charge for their services. And there's plenty of demand.
I own and operate a comic/Game store, we currently run x3 D&D campaigns a week all 3 hr session with a max of 7 players. We Charge each player a prepaid $2 drop-in fee, to reserve a space for the next week (it all goes to the DM) We also charge a $2 fee to print and/or level a character.
That's a totally reasonable rate and sounds like it would be fun. I definitely think that DMs should get paid because their job is thankless. But, if the DM isn't on point, dis-organized or isn't what they say it is, I have a hard time justifying the pay-to-play part. I'm not a hardcore player, but totally understand that there are thousands of people online and elsewhere looking to play. A DM should totally get paid to do the job, especially if they're getting involved in mapmaking, minis or the bells and whistles. It's no different than buskers in the subway or open mic nights. If you enjoy what is presented, you should throw coin (paper) into the tip jar/guitar case. They are bringing us enjoyment and deserve to get paid, BUT the online experience is much different than in real life.
I've played a few campaigns online now.
One was disorganized, started late and had numerous tech glitches that made it unbearable.
Another one was stellar and I am totally down to pay the DM for the amount of effort that has gone into it.
It's hard to find a good group where you totally get along with everyone and the teamwork is seemless.
Anyway, DMs that are busting butt to bring out the awesome damn well deserve a payday, in my opinion.
As a DM with 30+ years experience I agree cultivating the next generation of DMs is essential. I currently run 2 campaigns (1 adult and 1 mature)at my store. I have a young adult, who I have running a third campain Saturday afternoon (10-15 age group) If I didnt charge a $2 drop in fee per player it would almost be free babysitting. He's able to borrow the vast amount of supplies I acquired over my lifetime of playing, which makes his games more exciting for the young kids he's now DMing.
I'm new to d&d but I think I would've opted for a professional dm if I wasn't so darn interested in DM-ing myself. I've only been DM-ing for 2 months but it's a lot of work for a newbie. The amount of knowledge is overwhelming, only someone who's had a lifetime of studying could learn it all by heart. There's a lot of improv going into it as well which requires experience and a butt-load of creative talent. You're also a story teller, kind of like a director and producer and actor all at the same time, if I wasn't doing this for my friends I'd probably be charging people a dollar just to make me feel like its worth while.
So short answer, Yes. Consider it a talent fee.
If the DM is good and he can keep his players in line, yes.
I guess I'd pay up to 40$ per session.