Wizards require a great deal of specialized training and education, basically like getting a PhD. As such it's common for them to regard other wizards as peers, even if there might be some rivalry based on where two different wizards studied, not unlike rivalries between different universities (though with a bit more chance of lightning in some cases). Similarly, a commoner might call a wizard a sorcerer, but said wizard is likely to be quick to correct them because they worked hard for their magic, they didn't just have it handed to them because their great grandpappy bonked a dragon.
Similarly, a cleric isn't likely to call herself a mage unless she's multiclassed or pulling a con. People know that clerics are different from wizards: they cast spells by holding up a symbol of their faith and uttering a prayer and they don't need to study books to learn spells. These are differences that can be observed in-universe. Saying that common people can never tell the difference between the two because they don't realize they're in a game is like saying that it's impossible to tell the difference between a heart surgeon and a geologist.
Wizards in my setting are more like Doc Brown. There are no schools that teach magic beyond some basic theory. Most spellcasters have worked out two, maybe three spells, and most of them cast them as rituals (even stuff that isn't terribly useful cast that way, like magic missile), and probably only once or twice a day. Of all the wizardly spellcasters, less than 1% can do anything remotely approaching anything a PC wizard can do, in terms of overall power and versatility. Most of those keep themselves (and more importantly, the magical secrets they've worked out) away from prying eyes. Of that 1%, maybe another 1% are what we think of as adventurer wizards. A PC wizard would be in this last group.
Wizards can't trade spells. While a wizard might be able to reverse-engineer the notes of another wizard, the process is as much about reframing that other wizard's assumptions and magical philosophy or worldview into something he (the first wizard) would be able to make use of. Each wizard not only uses a unique script or language for spells, even the underlying concepts are individualized. No two wizards call the same spell by the same name -- the names of spells in the PHB and so forth are just terms for players.
NPC clerics are super-rare. Like, there's probably no more than a couple dozen of them in existence. And none of them have the breadth of capability that a PC cleric has.
I view it kind of like the original Conan movie. Conan is called a barbarian but he's much more a fighter with like maybe one level in rogue ("You're not a very good thief!") and possibly some levels in ranger. Subatai is much more like a rogue. I'm not sure what Valeria is. Mako's "wizard" is clearly a cleric.
Good for you, but that's homebrew that's explicitly at odds with standard game rules and therefore not really relevant, nor are the "actual" classes of character who are from a non-D&D IP that was based on something written decades before D&D even existed.
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"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
So one of the formal settings, Exandria, has exactly that. Xhorhas has a university/library full of Enchanters who's only job is to create and enchant magic items for the war effort.
Really.... so why, exactly, is it called a university/library rather than an enchantery or factory or anything you are actually calling it? And where are they getting the steady stream of needed parts to produce on that scale?
Students, adventurers, side projects, you name it. That's the easiest part to solve. Give out a quest pay a handful of gold ask for the corpse of the critter as proof. Use rare ingredients in item or potion crafting sell at mark up. Maybe even to gullible adventurers that brought you the ingredients in the first place.
It seems the most obvious way for a lecturer to finance their research while letting their students learn by doing. Set a 10 week project to enchant a pair of bracers off defense which the university will then sell. In much the same way as how most research students at university’s sign an agreement that any thing they discover that becomes commercially viable/can be patented the university makes a cut if any money made
Name me any university anywhere in the world that actually engages in any significant level of commercially significant production. Or even any technical college.
"University" is not the term used to describe what you are attributing to such places.
How many universities are capable of large-scale production in the real world? Some worlds in D&D contain universities that teach the theoretical and practical application of magic. There is an opportunity to put that to use in these worlds and apparently unlike many places in the real world, an absence of policy and law to prevent it. Here in the real world, there is strong resistance to commercialization at universities, specifically because of growing pressure for commercialization at these institutions. Educational institutions in some of these fictional worlds are likely called universities because that is their primary purpose - to educate growing minds in the research and use of magic. I strongly doubt every person that goes through such an institution is called to be a soldier, assassin, or 'magical scientist'. What could be an alternative line of work to tossing a fireball into a crowd or research? How might this be used in a world with completely different policies and laws than those you are familiar (or unfamiliar) with?
Is this really so frustrating to accept?
It is not a question of commercialization. Universities do help develop finished products. But the key word there is 'Develop.' They are not in the business of actual production.
Next you'll be arguing that Artificers can go beyond infusion style prototypes and just mass produce anything they have an infusion for, since their magic parallels the development roles of universities.
As I stated, there are laws, policies, people, and value preventing universities from getting into any meaningful levels of production in the real world. Can you define the countermeasures to magical production in fictional universities that you had no creative control over?
I do not appreciate your tone, nor the hypocrisy in your statement. You are perfectly happy to accuse someone else of a strawman and minutes later, fashion one of your own? Or is this a red herring? I suppose it could be both. Either way, it is irrelevant to the topic of universities that do exist in at least some D&D worlds that do produce and sell magical items.
How many universities are capable of large-scale production in the real world? Some worlds in D&D contain universities that teach the theoretical and practical application of magic.
Correction: some worlds contain schools that do that. To count as a university it must teach a diversified curriculum.
In any case, it's totally possible to have organizations that include education, research, and production; the modern world tends to specialize more than that, but pre-modern cultures often did not. It's just that 'university' is the wrong word for that ('guild' fits pretty well, though).
Good for you, but that's homebrew that's explicitly at odds with standard game rules and therefore not really relevant, nor are the "actual" classes of character who are from a non-D&D IP that was based on something written decades before D&D even existed.
There are standard game rules in D&D that explicitly say a PC wizard is actually called a "wizard" within the fictional world? I must have missed that.
How many universities are capable of large-scale production in the real world? Some worlds in D&D contain universities that teach the theoretical and practical application of magic.
Correction: some worlds contain schools that do that. To count as a university it must teach a diversified curriculum.
In any case, it's totally possible to have organizations that include education, research, and production; the modern world tends to specialize more than that, but pre-modern cultures often did not. It's just that 'university' is the wrong word for that ('guild' fits pretty well, though).
Perhaps these universities do have multiple schools. In place of the School of Liberal Arts, there is the School of Evocation and instead of the College of Health Sciences, there is the College of Creation, and so on.
How many universities are capable of large-scale production in the real world? Some worlds in D&D contain universities that teach the theoretical and practical application of magic.
Correction: some worlds contain schools that do that. To count as a university it must teach a diversified curriculum.
In any case, it's totally possible to have organizations that include education, research, and production; the modern world tends to specialize more than that, but pre-modern cultures often did not. It's just that 'university' is the wrong word for that ('guild' fits pretty well, though).
Funnily enough, the word 'university' derives from the Latin word for (among other things) 'guild'
Modern ideas of what a university "should be" aren't really too relevant here
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
How many universities are capable of large-scale production in the real world? Some worlds in D&D contain universities that teach the theoretical and practical application of magic.
Correction: some worlds contain schools that do that. To count as a university it must teach a diversified curriculum.
In any case, it's totally possible to have organizations that include education, research, and production; the modern world tends to specialize more than that, but pre-modern cultures often did not. It's just that 'university' is the wrong word for that ('guild' fits pretty well, though).
Funnily enough, the word 'university' derives from the Latin word for (among other things) 'guild'
Modern ideas of what a university "should be" aren't really too relevant here
And yet, Eberron, the world in question, is described by way of equivalent tech era as well past the time when Latin was relegated to 'Celestial' language status and spoken only in Churches and in some scientific or legal jargon.
Exandria is the world that has the schools that produces magic items. I am sure they have something similar in Eberron, but Xhorhas and the Dwendalian Empire both have schools that create magic items.
Name me any university anywhere in the world that actually engages in any significant level of commercially significant production. Or even any technical college.
"University" is not the term used to describe what you are attributing to such places.
There's a war going on. This center of learning has essentially been conscripted. Keep in mind that academics were drafted into weapons development and cryptography during WW II as well, and that while in the real world engineers and craftsmen can produce whatever it is the eggheads developed in D&D the magic part of creating a magical item can't be done by anyone who doesn't have sufficiently strong casting ability.
There's a war going on. This center of learning has essentially been conscripted. Keep in mind that academics were drafted into weapons development and cryptography during WW II as well, and that while in the real world engineers and craftsmen can produce whatever it is the eggheads developed in D&D the magic part of creating a magical item can't be done by anyone who doesn't have sufficiently strong casting ability.
Nothing in 5e requires the ability to cast spells to create magic items.
There's a war going on. This center of learning has essentially been conscripted. Keep in mind that academics were drafted into weapons development and cryptography during WW II as well, and that while in the real world engineers and craftsmen can produce whatever it is the eggheads developed in D&D the magic part of creating a magical item can't be done by anyone who doesn't have sufficiently strong casting ability.
Nothing in 5e requires the ability to cast spells to create magic items.
From the DMG:
"The creation of a magic item is a lengthy, expensive task. To start, a character must have a formula that describes the construction of the item. The character must also be a spellcaster with spell slots and must be able to cast any spells that the item can produce."
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I guess if we want to be lore accurate, the school in the Dwendalian Empire is the Solstryce Academy and the one in Xhorhas is the Marble Tomes Conservatory. They are both schools of higher learning.
There's a war going on. This center of learning has essentially been conscripted. Keep in mind that academics were drafted into weapons development and cryptography during WW II as well, and that while in the real world engineers and craftsmen can produce whatever it is the eggheads developed in D&D the magic part of creating a magical item can't be done by anyone who doesn't have sufficiently strong casting ability.
Nothing in 5e requires the ability to cast spells to create magic items.
From the DMG:
"The creation of a magic item is a lengthy, expensive task. To start, a character must have a formula that describes the construction of the item. The character must also be a spellcaster with spell slots and must be able to cast any spells that the item can produce."
Only applicable if the item produces spell effects, though.
"A spellcaster with spell slots and must be able to cast any spells that the item can produce."
Still needs to be a spellcaster with spell slots if the item can't produce spell effects.
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"A spellcaster with spell slots and must be able to cast any spells that the item can produce."
Still needs to be a spellcaster with spell slots if the item can't produce spell effects.
Not sure that applies if you're using XGTE -- those rules seem to just require tool proficiency or arcana skill.
That's correct, though that's weird in its own way - you can craft a magical sword using smith's tools, or by being proficient in Arcana. Either, not both. Blacksmithing and knowing about arcane stuff are interchangeable for this process. Feels very much like it's designed to be as open as possible while still having a shred of plausibility.
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Name me any university anywhere in the world that actually engages in any significant level of commercially significant production. Or even any technical college.
"University" is not the term used to describe what you are attributing to such places.
There's a war going on. This center of learning has essentially been conscripted. Keep in mind that academics were drafted into weapons development and cryptography during WW II as well, and that while in the real world engineers and craftsmen can produce whatever it is the eggheads developed in D&D the magic part of creating a magical item can't be done by anyone who doesn't have sufficiently strong casting ability.
Was a war going on. The official setting is 2 years after the end of the war. Primary production centres are 'Arcane workshops,' which are not described as part of the universities.
Again, though, if you want to have an Eberron style high magic campaign, go for it. If you want to run a relatively modern world where magic similarly replaces tech, go for it. That is ok. You do not need permission to use that as a style.
However don't insist that it is a style everyone should use or that the majority should use or that it is RAW outside of Eberron. And again, even in Eberron, the universities are not production centres. Nor were they in WWII. To the extent the universities developed new gear and new techniques, those went straight to the military. In times of total war, times such as that, there is no reliance on people buying weapons or armour in shops. People are drafted directly into the armed forces. And things like household appliances are in shorter supply since production centres are retooled for military production. AND that all assumes factories exist and that things can be built by lay people. Again, those academics in the universities? They have no interest in being factory workers and the kind of mass production that facilitates shops is simply not normally possible.
I was referring to Wildemount, but ok. I don't think anyone's suggested this style should be universally applicable either.
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How many universities are capable of large-scale production in the real world? Some worlds in D&D contain universities that teach the theoretical and practical application of magic.
Correction: some worlds contain schools that do that. To count as a university it must teach a diversified curriculum.
In any case, it's totally possible to have organizations that include education, research, and production; the modern world tends to specialize more than that, but pre-modern cultures often did not. It's just that 'university' is the wrong word for that ('guild' fits pretty well, though).
Funnily enough, the word 'university' derives from the Latin word for (among other things) 'guild'
Modern ideas of what a university "should be" aren't really too relevant here
And yet, Eberron, the world in question, is described by way of equivalent tech era as well past the time when Latin was relegated to 'Celestial' language status and spoken only in Churches and in some scientific or legal jargon.
So lets give you an example from the core setting. No university as that seems a blind spot.
In the city of Waterdeep in the Forgotten Realms setting, the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors is a guild of wizards. These arcanists wish to make wizardry more accessible so the order’s members can profit from selling their services.
This from the DMG chapter 1: A world of your own. The whole chapter basically says it's up to the DM. And then gives a number of examples. From Athas extremely low magic, over Toril mid level (although every adventure contradicts this but hey whatever) to stop at Ebberon the most high magic world in the DMG. Lets not look at Ravnica because then you have major factions like the Simic Combine and the Izzet League that would shatter WoTC's basic assertion that magic is a rare commodity.
1) No freakin way that most of the magic items would not be both for sale and commonly desired by those wealthy enough to do it. Not saying a magic shop would exist in a small town. But there are whole bunch of things that should DEFINITELY be for sale, if only at an auction house in the top 10 largest cities in the world. Specifically that includes things that are of such immense value that there is practically a guaranteed market among the merchants, army, nobility or wizards, including:
Healing items, including ressurections scrolls, and anti-poison as well as plus hitpoints.
Scrolls - particularly wizard scrolls as you can learn the spells, then go and write it out and sell it to other wizards, making your money back
Wizard's spell books
Adamantine stone carving tools, including picks
Adamantine and/or +1 weapons
+1 armor, shield
any transportation device
bags of holding and similar devices (Portable Holes)
water based devices available in a port. I.E. A port with 4 Galley's available for 30k should at least have a cap of water breathing and a ring of water walking available
The reason why they did not include magic item stores is the problem with pricing and power. Games vary with regard to power level, magic availablity, and treasure given out. In older versions there were problems with some DMs giving out more gold than others, and they had priced magic item with a solid set price, so some games had too much magic and others too little.
I personally would have built a list of stuff available in a common city, and another in a metropolis, but left pricing up to the DM, perhaps with a guide stating that Items of x rarity should be available by Y level, and should be relatively cheap to buy by Z level.
This has more to do with prices being such that demand is pretty limited. While D&D isn't meant as an economics simulator, a reasonably typical Uncommon magic item might be worth a modest lifestyle for a year (365 gp). That's still in the range where dealers with semi-standardized prices might exist (equivalent to buying a car) but Rare and beyond would generally be one-off sales.
This has more to do with prices being such that demand is pretty limited. While D&D isn't meant as an economics simulator, a reasonably typical Uncommon magic item might be worth a modest lifestyle for a year (365 gp). That's still in the range where dealers with semi-standardized prices might exist (equivalent to buying a car) but Rare and beyond would generally be one-off sales.
It is a question of whether the rarities are literal rarities or whether they represent the distribution amongst any hypothetical cache of items. Items can be exceedingly rare and even if you do find one, it being most commonly from group 'a'
In a world such as Eberron, common magic items are literally common but in Forgotten Realms, typically not so much.
Although the categories are a mess since I would argue that in FR, +1 gear is way more common than any non-potion non-scroll 'common' magic item.
Judging from what I've read in the books etc, the rarity of an item doesn't so much describe how often you will come across it, so much as when you will. Common items are things that L1s will come across, but you don't want them getting their mittens on what are described as Legendary items. I certainly won't be spamming my late level parties with Common items just to justify that one Legendary item that I'll be dropping them. The frequency of items won't probably change, just the makeup - fewer Commons and Uncommons, and more Rares and Very Rares, with sprinkling of Legendary. Commons and Uncommons will be there just to troll them.
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Good for you, but that's homebrew that's explicitly at odds with standard game rules and therefore not really relevant, nor are the "actual" classes of character who are from a non-D&D IP that was based on something written decades before D&D even existed.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
As I stated, there are laws, policies, people, and value preventing universities from getting into any meaningful levels of production in the real world. Can you define the countermeasures to magical production in fictional universities that you had no creative control over?
I do not appreciate your tone, nor the hypocrisy in your statement. You are perfectly happy to accuse someone else of a strawman and minutes later, fashion one of your own? Or is this a red herring? I suppose it could be both. Either way, it is irrelevant to the topic of universities that do exist in at least some D&D worlds that do produce and sell magical items.
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Correction: some worlds contain schools that do that. To count as a university it must teach a diversified curriculum.
In any case, it's totally possible to have organizations that include education, research, and production; the modern world tends to specialize more than that, but pre-modern cultures often did not. It's just that 'university' is the wrong word for that ('guild' fits pretty well, though).
There are standard game rules in D&D that explicitly say a PC wizard is actually called a "wizard" within the fictional world? I must have missed that.
Perhaps these universities do have multiple schools. In place of the School of Liberal Arts, there is the School of Evocation and instead of the College of Health Sciences, there is the College of Creation, and so on.
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Funnily enough, the word 'university' derives from the Latin word for (among other things) 'guild'
Modern ideas of what a university "should be" aren't really too relevant here
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Exandria is the world that has the schools that produces magic items. I am sure they have something similar in Eberron, but Xhorhas and the Dwendalian Empire both have schools that create magic items.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
There's a war going on. This center of learning has essentially been conscripted. Keep in mind that academics were drafted into weapons development and cryptography during WW II as well, and that while in the real world engineers and craftsmen can produce whatever it is the eggheads developed in D&D the magic part of creating a magical item can't be done by anyone who doesn't have sufficiently strong casting ability.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Nothing in 5e requires the ability to cast spells to create magic items.
From the DMG:
"The creation of a magic item is a lengthy, expensive task. To start, a character must have a formula that describes the construction of the item. The character must also be a spellcaster with spell slots and must be able to cast any spells that the item can produce."
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I guess if we want to be lore accurate, the school in the Dwendalian Empire is the Solstryce Academy and the one in Xhorhas is the Marble Tomes Conservatory. They are both schools of higher learning.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
"A spellcaster with spell slots and must be able to cast any spells that the item can produce."
Still needs to be a spellcaster with spell slots if the item can't produce spell effects.
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Not sure that applies if you're using XGTE -- those rules seem to just require tool proficiency or arcana skill.
That's correct, though that's weird in its own way - you can craft a magical sword using smith's tools, or by being proficient in Arcana. Either, not both. Blacksmithing and knowing about arcane stuff are interchangeable for this process. Feels very much like it's designed to be as open as possible while still having a shred of plausibility.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I was referring to Wildemount, but ok. I don't think anyone's suggested this style should be universally applicable either.
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So lets give you an example from the core setting. No university as that seems a blind spot.
In the city of Waterdeep in the Forgotten Realms setting, the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors is a guild of wizards. These arcanists wish to make wizardry more accessible so the order’s members can profit from selling their services.
This from the DMG chapter 1: A world of your own. The whole chapter basically says it's up to the DM. And then gives a number of examples. From Athas extremely low magic, over Toril mid level (although every adventure contradicts this but hey whatever) to stop at Ebberon the most high magic world in the DMG. Lets not look at Ravnica because then you have major factions like the Simic Combine and the Izzet League that would shatter WoTC's basic assertion that magic is a rare commodity.
There are three seperate issues that I see.
1) No freakin way that most of the magic items would not be both for sale and commonly desired by those wealthy enough to do it. Not saying a magic shop would exist in a small town. But there are whole bunch of things that should DEFINITELY be for sale, if only at an auction house in the top 10 largest cities in the world. Specifically that includes things that are of such immense value that there is practically a guaranteed market among the merchants, army, nobility or wizards, including:
The reason why they did not include magic item stores is the problem with pricing and power. Games vary with regard to power level, magic availablity, and treasure given out. In older versions there were problems with some DMs giving out more gold than others, and they had priced magic item with a solid set price, so some games had too much magic and others too little.
I personally would have built a list of stuff available in a common city, and another in a metropolis, but left pricing up to the DM, perhaps with a guide stating that Items of x rarity should be available by Y level, and should be relatively cheap to buy by Z level.
Waiting on 2) and 3)
This has more to do with prices being such that demand is pretty limited. While D&D isn't meant as an economics simulator, a reasonably typical Uncommon magic item might be worth a modest lifestyle for a year (365 gp). That's still in the range where dealers with semi-standardized prices might exist (equivalent to buying a car) but Rare and beyond would generally be one-off sales.
Judging from what I've read in the books etc, the rarity of an item doesn't so much describe how often you will come across it, so much as when you will. Common items are things that L1s will come across, but you don't want them getting their mittens on what are described as Legendary items. I certainly won't be spamming my late level parties with Common items just to justify that one Legendary item that I'll be dropping them. The frequency of items won't probably change, just the makeup - fewer Commons and Uncommons, and more Rares and Very Rares, with sprinkling of Legendary. Commons and Uncommons will be there just to troll them.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.