There's not much in the game you can get without it coming from feats or class features; those are generally the two ways you gain a mechanical trait/edge/advantage in D&D. Expertise on saving throws would badly distort the numerical balancing between saving throw DCs and save numbers and basically render the character immune to anything that targeted the Expertise'd save.
If you have a DM willing to work with you, sky's the limit. But according to the base game mechanics, you need to be a rogue, a bard, or get one of two feats to gain Expertise in something, and the game is specifically hostile to the idea of saving throw Expertise.
Outside of feats/class features, you would basically need a magic item (I don't think there are any that grant expertise but there's a ton of them so it's possible that one exists), or get a Boon from your DM... which is basically just giving you a feat without needing to spend an ASI on it.
Wish is one of those things that lets a DM do more-or-less what they want. Mechanically it can do whatever the DM decides it does, in which case we're right back to "if you have a DM willing to work with you..." Wishing for Expertise is one of those things that'd make most DMs frowny-face, especially since the character is wishing for a feature on their sheet and thus getting quite meta about the whole thing. Theoretically yes, Wish could do it, but the caster risks losing their best spell forever to do so and the whole party risks the spell backfiring in the "you cheesed off your DM using Wish incautiously" way. I would not recommend.
Proficiencies, both in skills and saves, are a class feature to begin with. As are feats, really. There are certainly items that affect class features - most bonuses do as much - but Expertise is really a step beyond that: it changes a given proficiency fundamentally. I'd be pretty wary of doing anything like that outside the confines of class features.
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Meta-weaksauce is what most DMs probably would think if you tried to pull that. Wishes are granted to characters not players. I don't know what the gods or arcane powers that be would do if a character asked, "I want advantage on my Dexterity Saving Throws."* A character doesn't know what a saving throw is. It's the DM's job to mechanically interpret a wish, not the player's to mechanically dictate the outcome.
At least I, and I don't think I'm in the minority, require characters receiving some sort of arcane or divine intervention to ask in terms of the game world, not mechanics. So one can't say "I wish for a +3 sword." The character can wish for a magic sword, maybe even a particular magic sword if they know of one, but they don't get to stat the outcome of the wish in the phrasing of the wish.
You seem to know the rules for how a character may get expertise in skills, as you were asking for a work around. You also asked to use Expertise (which is a way of describing someone's skill) applied to saving throws. Why do you want these work arounds?
*EDIT: Figured it out, if a character asked for advantage on saving throws, the powers that be will always grant you the high ground if you have to toss something to save the thing being tossed or the tossing will save something else. You are THE go to person for bucket brigades.
Meta-weaksauce is what most DMs probably would think if you tried to pull that. Wishes are granted to characters not players. I don't know what the gods or arcane powers that be would do if a character asked, "I want advantage on my Dexterity Saving Throws." A character doesn't know what a saving throw is. It's the DM's job to mechanically interpret a wish, not the player's to mechanically dictate the outcome.
At least I, and I don't think I'm in the minority, require characters receiving some sort of arcane or divine intervention to ask in terms of the game world, not mechanics. So one can't say "I wish for a +3 sword." The character can wish for a magic sword, maybe even a particular magic sword if they know of one, but they don't get to stat the outcome of the wish in the phrasing of the wish.
You seem to know the rules for how a character may get expertise in skills, as you were asking for a work around. You also asked to use Expertise (which is a way of describing someone's skill) applied to saving throws. Why do you want these work arounds?
i wasn't asking for a work-around. I just did not know if it was possible in normal gameplay. As for why, well, I have a LVL 20 character I am working on and I thought it would nice to have expertise on saving throws.
As Midnight said, a character using Wish to say "I want Expertise on my saving throws" is sorta...weird. That's not the character Wishing for something, it's the player small-doubleyou wishing for something. A character could say "I Wish for unparalleled mastery in evading the explosive spells and fiery blasts of my most dangerous enemies", and then the DM would do with that what they felt appropriate. Expertise in Dex saves could be a result. So could gaining the Evasion feature from rogues and monks, or gaining something else altogether. Or, given most DMs' opinion of Wish, you'd probably explode into linguini on the spot.
Short version: just like I said right away, there's no by-the-book way of gaining Expertise on saves at all, or Expertise in skills without class features or feats. A DM can award boons that might do those things, but I can't think of many right-thinking DMs who'd allow Expertise in saves. It's super disruptive to encounter balance, in a way not many of the things people think are actually disruptive to encounter balance are.
i wasn't asking for a work-around. I just did not know if it was possible in normal gameplay. As for why, well, I have a LVL 20 character I am working on and I thought it would nice to have expertise on saving throws.
Did you build the level 20 character or did you actually play the character through levels up to 20? If the latter, then I'm thinking they got by just fine with their saving throws RAW. If the former, well talk to your DM as Yurei says, though such an accommodation is really unlikely as Yurei also says. But a level 20 "build" sorta presumes the PC made some saves in their backstory, they just didn't call them saving throws because meta.
While there is no explicitly stated RAW outside of feats or magical items that can give you what you want, RAW does provide an opportunity. Training in the PHB offers language or tool proficiency, but the text also does say that a DM might allow additional training options. If training for one of these is 250 days and 250 gold, perhaps you might gain a level of skill in some other activity if you are willing to invest more time and coin... and if you can convince your DM to do it.
While it is not specifically "Expertise", the new UA Multiverse races include the Autognome, which has a racial trait called "Built for Success". This trait allows the player to add a free 1d4 to attack rolls, skill checks, and/or saving throws, a few times per adventuring day. It requires no action, and should stack with everything else.
As mentioned, no and no. The closest thing you have to Expertise in a saving throw is the Paladin's Aura of Protection or the Artificer's Soul of Artifice. Even then you'd only get expertise in some saving throws.
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See title. There are two questions.
RAW? No, and no.
There's not much in the game you can get without it coming from feats or class features; those are generally the two ways you gain a mechanical trait/edge/advantage in D&D. Expertise on saving throws would badly distort the numerical balancing between saving throw DCs and save numbers and basically render the character immune to anything that targeted the Expertise'd save.
If you have a DM willing to work with you, sky's the limit. But according to the base game mechanics, you need to be a rogue, a bard, or get one of two feats to gain Expertise in something, and the game is specifically hostile to the idea of saving throw Expertise.
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Outside of feats/class features, you would basically need a magic item (I don't think there are any that grant expertise but there's a ton of them so it's possible that one exists), or get a Boon from your DM... which is basically just giving you a feat without needing to spend an ASI on it.
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Ok, but what about a wish spell?
Wish is one of those things that lets a DM do more-or-less what they want. Mechanically it can do whatever the DM decides it does, in which case we're right back to "if you have a DM willing to work with you..." Wishing for Expertise is one of those things that'd make most DMs frowny-face, especially since the character is wishing for a feature on their sheet and thus getting quite meta about the whole thing. Theoretically yes, Wish could do it, but the caster risks losing their best spell forever to do so and the whole party risks the spell backfiring in the "you cheesed off your DM using Wish incautiously" way. I would not recommend.
Please do not contact or message me.
Proficiencies, both in skills and saves, are a class feature to begin with. As are feats, really. There are certainly items that affect class features - most bonuses do as much - but Expertise is really a step beyond that: it changes a given proficiency fundamentally. I'd be pretty wary of doing anything like that outside the confines of class features.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Meta-weaksauce is what most DMs probably would think if you tried to pull that. Wishes are granted to characters not players. I don't know what the gods or arcane powers that be would do if a character asked, "I want advantage on my Dexterity Saving Throws."* A character doesn't know what a saving throw is. It's the DM's job to mechanically interpret a wish, not the player's to mechanically dictate the outcome.
At least I, and I don't think I'm in the minority, require characters receiving some sort of arcane or divine intervention to ask in terms of the game world, not mechanics. So one can't say "I wish for a +3 sword." The character can wish for a magic sword, maybe even a particular magic sword if they know of one, but they don't get to stat the outcome of the wish in the phrasing of the wish.
You seem to know the rules for how a character may get expertise in skills, as you were asking for a work around. You also asked to use Expertise (which is a way of describing someone's skill) applied to saving throws. Why do you want these work arounds?
*EDIT: Figured it out, if a character asked for advantage on saving throws, the powers that be will always grant you the high ground if you have to toss something to save the thing being tossed or the tossing will save something else. You are THE go to person for bucket brigades.
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i wasn't asking for a work-around. I just did not know if it was possible in normal gameplay. As for why, well, I have a LVL 20 character I am working on and I thought it would nice to have expertise on saving throws.
As Midnight said, a character using Wish to say "I want Expertise on my saving throws" is sorta...weird. That's not the character Wishing for something, it's the player small-doubleyou wishing for something. A character could say "I Wish for unparalleled mastery in evading the explosive spells and fiery blasts of my most dangerous enemies", and then the DM would do with that what they felt appropriate. Expertise in Dex saves could be a result. So could gaining the Evasion feature from rogues and monks, or gaining something else altogether. Or, given most DMs' opinion of Wish, you'd probably explode into linguini on the spot.
Short version: just like I said right away, there's no by-the-book way of gaining Expertise on saves at all, or Expertise in skills without class features or feats. A DM can award boons that might do those things, but I can't think of many right-thinking DMs who'd allow Expertise in saves. It's super disruptive to encounter balance, in a way not many of the things people think are actually disruptive to encounter balance are.
Please do not contact or message me.
Did you build the level 20 character or did you actually play the character through levels up to 20? If the latter, then I'm thinking they got by just fine with their saving throws RAW. If the former, well talk to your DM as Yurei says, though such an accommodation is really unlikely as Yurei also says. But a level 20 "build" sorta presumes the PC made some saves in their backstory, they just didn't call them saving throws because meta.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Hello Princedg5678,
While there is no explicitly stated RAW outside of feats or magical items that can give you what you want, RAW does provide an opportunity. Training in the PHB offers language or tool proficiency, but the text also does say that a DM might allow additional training options. If training for one of these is 250 days and 250 gold, perhaps you might gain a level of skill in some other activity if you are willing to invest more time and coin... and if you can convince your DM to do it.
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While it is not specifically "Expertise", the new UA Multiverse races include the Autognome, which has a racial trait called "Built for Success". This trait allows the player to add a free 1d4 to attack rolls, skill checks, and/or saving throws, a few times per adventuring day. It requires no action, and should stack with everything else.
As mentioned, no and no. The closest thing you have to Expertise in a saving throw is the Paladin's Aura of Protection or the Artificer's Soul of Artifice. Even then you'd only get expertise in some saving throws.