Personal opinion of NerdImmersion aside..if half of this crap is actually true, we're gonna see a forum firestorm the likes of which we haven't seen since the Summer of Flames back during the Tasha's announcement and Diversity and Dragons. The grognards are going to go absolutely out of their minds and they're gonna make it everybody's problem.
Yikes. Gonna be real rough around here when that book drops...
They just decided to keep the powercreep going and buffed everything. Ugh. AND they removed the standard ASI's from the already published races! Dislike overall.
They just decided to keep the powercreep going and buffed everything. Ugh. AND they removed the standard ASI's from the already published races! Dislike overall.
Yeah remember when they said the floating ASI's would be optional, because they don't seem to be very optional anymore.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
They just decided to keep the powercreep going and buffed everything. Ugh. AND they removed the standard ASI's from the already published races! Dislike overall.
Yeah remember when they said the floating ASI's would be optional, because they don't seem to be very optional anymore.
It turns out that the player base really likes it.
Of course they like it, that’s not the point. Now they haven’t even included the original ASIs in as options anymore. And the PHB races will be in ‘24 (if not sooner).
Personal opinion of NerdImmersion aside..if half of this crap is actually true, we're gonna see a forum firestorm the likes of which we haven't seen since the Summer of Flames back during the Tasha's announcement and Diversity and Dragons. The grognards are going to go absolutely out of their minds and they're gonna make it everybody's problem.
Yikes. Gonna be real rough around here when that book drops...
I expect to see exactly the same rehashed arguments by all the same people and a few "new" posters as well.
Of course they like it, that’s not the point. Now they haven’t even included the original ASIs in as options anymore. And the PHB races will be in ‘24 (if not sooner).
For WotC, making money is the point and people tend to buy things that they like. Now, the question is how will this impact DnDBeyond. Is it a separate book with "new" races or is it errata?
Of course they like it, that’s not the point. Now they haven’t even included the original ASIs in as options anymore. And the PHB races will be in ‘24 (if not sooner).
For WotC, making money is the point and people tend to buy things that they like. Now, the question is how will this impact DnDBeyond. Is it a separate book with "new" races or is it errata?
It's 100% going to be treated as errata, and that's honestly the worst part so far (what happens when you're digital and don't actually own the content you bought) because now we're going to lose all the current content.
While people do tend to buy what they like, industry knows customers will still buy and consume the stuff they gripe about. xP
It's 100% going to be treated as errata, and that's honestly the worst part so far (what happens when you're digital and don't actually own the content you bought) because now we're going to lose all the current content.
While people do tend to buy what they like, industry knows customers will still buy and consume the stuff they gripe about. xP
Not errata, it would be treated as updates, and are we sure 100%. DnD Beyond has officially said nothing about this book unless something came out today.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Myself I am for the change 100% as I do not mind giving players the choice of stats they want for their character. But yes there is gonna be a firestorm here in the forums, and I will really have to bite my tongue and not say something that is considered trolling. But I do wish we could find out what DDB is gonna do for the book as I already have the other books here, and the multiverse of monsters isn't being sold alone yet, so I am wondering.
Thematically they are my favourite playable races. But mechanically some of them are extremely lackluster currently.
Not happy about species ASI getting removed. It should be Tasha's ASI standard, with suggested ASI as a variant rule. Deleting them altogether shows that Tasha's calling it 'optional' was a complete lie.
I'm curious as to why people are disliking the idea of ASI's being allocated by choice (based on the characters background or, in some cases, powergaming) rather than "because she's a dwarf"?
I mean, if you like the idea of a character being sturdy because they are a dwarf, then you can assign constitution for them. But if your dwarf is an acrobat who is fired out of a catapult in a travelling show, then you may choose dex & charisma instead.
As far as I'm aware, the fixed ASI's only serve to limit the likelihood of powerful characters in races not ideal for it - EG gnome barbarians or half-orc bards. It's not that the ASI is a balancing feature of the race, it just directs them towards fixed roles, which can only ever be less interesting, surely?
I'm curious as to why people are disliking the idea of ASI's being allocated by choice (based on the characters background or, in some cases, powergaming) rather than "because she's a dwarf"?
I mean, if you like the idea of a character being sturdy because they are a dwarf, then you can assign constitution for them. But if your dwarf is an acrobat who is fired out of a catapult in a travelling show, then you may choose dex & charisma instead.
As far as I'm aware, the fixed ASI's only serve to limit the likelihood of powerful characters in races not ideal for it - EG gnome barbarians or half-orc bards. It's not that the ASI is a balancing feature of the race, it just directs them towards fixed roles, which can only ever be less interesting, surely?
It's not that we don't like the option of floating ASI's, what we don't like it it no longer being optional. As well as the fact that going forward we won't even know what the static ASI's would have been since they're removing those wholesale, at least that's the way things seem to be going.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
I'm curious as to why people are disliking the idea of ASI's being allocated by choice (based on the characters background or, in some cases, powergaming) rather than "because she's a dwarf"?
I mean, if you like the idea of a character being sturdy because they are a dwarf, then you can assign constitution for them. But if your dwarf is an acrobat who is fired out of a catapult in a travelling show, then you may choose dex & charisma instead.
As far as I'm aware, the fixed ASI's only serve to limit the likelihood of powerful characters in races not ideal for it - EG gnome barbarians or half-orc bards. It's not that the ASI is a balancing feature of the race, it just directs them towards fixed roles, which can only ever be less interesting, surely?
It's not that we don't like the option of floating ASI's, what we don't like it it no longer being optional. As well as the fact that going forward we won't even know what the static ASI's would have been since they're removing those wholesale, at least that's the way things seem to be going.
So you like not having to do as your told, but you don't like not being told at all?
I suppose it would make sense t odescribe them as being tough and smart, and then letting the players deduce that this means intelligence and constitution are defining features of the race.
I guess I struggle to see why a player would pick, for example, half-orcs for their strength and then not be able to work out that the +2 would, as standard, go in strength. If they picked half orcs of any other reason than their strength, then the +2S is not relevant and the ycan pick what they want.
In essence, nobody will pick a race because they are strong and then not put +2 in strength.
If you are going to move the ASI's anyway, why do you need to know what the standard ones are?
I'm curious as to why people are disliking the idea of ASI's being allocated by choice (based on the characters background or, in some cases, powergaming) rather than "because she's a dwarf"?
I can't really recommend looking it up, but this has been discussed at length in a bunch of threads. Even pre-Tasha's as a houserule, but certainly as soon as that book dropped. Because of racial identity and because of tradition are the common answers. But racial ASI's are not really interesting as far as racial identifiers go and it's for PCs, not NPCs, and PCs are exceptional is the usual counter. Which is still true because you can assign your higher stats to whatever you like. But then you're disadvantaging your character mechanically by not getting a bonus to your highest and presumably most important stat. But that's powergaming and it's only a +5% to your success rate. And so on, though usually things got a little flamey long before. Most of the arguments have at least some value on both sides, and neither side is fundamentally wrong - it's a preference, and we're allowed to have preferences. Both sides have people taking things a little too far though, and there's the more complex argument of fixed ASIs being potentially offensive to some (not going to rehash that one here).
Part 1 Part 2
If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
Seems like several updates/changes to the races overall.
I like the Genasi changes.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Personal opinion of NerdImmersion aside..if half of this crap is actually true, we're gonna see a forum firestorm the likes of which we haven't seen since the Summer of Flames back during the Tasha's announcement and Diversity and Dragons. The grognards are going to go absolutely out of their minds and they're gonna make it everybody's problem.
Yikes. Gonna be real rough around here when that book drops...
Please do not contact or message me.
They just decided to keep the powercreep going and buffed everything. Ugh. AND they removed the standard ASI's from the already published races! Dislike overall.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
Yeah remember when they said the floating ASI's would be optional, because they don't seem to be very optional anymore.
If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
It turns out that the player base really likes it.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Of course they like it, that’s not the point. Now they haven’t even included the original ASIs in as options anymore. And the PHB races will be in ‘24 (if not sooner).
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I expect to see exactly the same rehashed arguments by all the same people and a few "new" posters as well.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
For WotC, making money is the point and people tend to buy things that they like. Now, the question is how will this impact DnDBeyond. Is it a separate book with "new" races or is it errata?
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
It's 100% going to be treated as errata, and that's honestly the worst part so far (what happens when you're digital and don't actually own the content you bought) because now we're going to lose all the current content.
While people do tend to buy what they like, industry knows customers will still buy and consume the stuff they gripe about. xP
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
Then it is a win win for WotC since the changes are popular and those that don't like it will buy the books anyway :)
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Yeah, a real trash outcome in the end it is.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
Not errata, it would be treated as updates, and are we sure 100%. DnD Beyond has officially said nothing about this book unless something came out today.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Love the changes, but this forum will be unusable after it drops. The amount of noise that the D&D conservationists are going to make will be huge.
Myself I am for the change 100% as I do not mind giving players the choice of stats they want for their character. But yes there is gonna be a firestorm here in the forums, and I will really have to bite my tongue and not say something that is considered trolling. But I do wish we could find out what DDB is gonna do for the book as I already have the other books here, and the multiverse of monsters isn't being sold alone yet, so I am wondering.
Woop genasi improvements!
Thematically they are my favourite playable races. But mechanically some of them are extremely lackluster currently.
Not happy about species ASI getting removed. It should be Tasha's ASI standard, with suggested ASI as a variant rule. Deleting them altogether shows that Tasha's calling it 'optional' was a complete lie.
I'm curious as to why people are disliking the idea of ASI's being allocated by choice (based on the characters background or, in some cases, powergaming) rather than "because she's a dwarf"?
I mean, if you like the idea of a character being sturdy because they are a dwarf, then you can assign constitution for them. But if your dwarf is an acrobat who is fired out of a catapult in a travelling show, then you may choose dex & charisma instead.
As far as I'm aware, the fixed ASI's only serve to limit the likelihood of powerful characters in races not ideal for it - EG gnome barbarians or half-orc bards. It's not that the ASI is a balancing feature of the race, it just directs them towards fixed roles, which can only ever be less interesting, surely?
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
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It's not that we don't like the option of floating ASI's, what we don't like it it no longer being optional. As well as the fact that going forward we won't even know what the static ASI's would have been since they're removing those wholesale, at least that's the way things seem to be going.
If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
So you like not having to do as your told, but you don't like not being told at all?
I suppose it would make sense t odescribe them as being tough and smart, and then letting the players deduce that this means intelligence and constitution are defining features of the race.
I guess I struggle to see why a player would pick, for example, half-orcs for their strength and then not be able to work out that the +2 would, as standard, go in strength. If they picked half orcs of any other reason than their strength, then the +2S is not relevant and the ycan pick what they want.
In essence, nobody will pick a race because they are strong and then not put +2 in strength.
If you are going to move the ASI's anyway, why do you need to know what the standard ones are?
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
I can't really recommend looking it up, but this has been discussed at length in a bunch of threads. Even pre-Tasha's as a houserule, but certainly as soon as that book dropped. Because of racial identity and because of tradition are the common answers. But racial ASI's are not really interesting as far as racial identifiers go and it's for PCs, not NPCs, and PCs are exceptional is the usual counter. Which is still true because you can assign your higher stats to whatever you like. But then you're disadvantaging your character mechanically by not getting a bonus to your highest and presumably most important stat. But that's powergaming and it's only a +5% to your success rate. And so on, though usually things got a little flamey long before. Most of the arguments have at least some value on both sides, and neither side is fundamentally wrong - it's a preference, and we're allowed to have preferences. Both sides have people taking things a little too far though, and there's the more complex argument of fixed ASIs being potentially offensive to some (not going to rehash that one here).
Being optional doesn't mean they'll be moved anyway. It means some will move them and others won't.
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