They generally do not update the content of the books until WotC issues errata for them when the next printing is about to happen, so again the onus is on WotC to provide direction to DDB. As for expecting new content, the description on the preorder page explains that it contains updated races and creatures from older material, so the "new" part is the rebalancing. I doubt VGtM or MToF will be updated unless WotC decides that they need to match what is in M3 and I do not expect DDB to have any information until then. And, as I mentioned before Fantasy Grounds has stated that they will not be syncing the new versions with the old books, so if you want to see the revamped versions you will most likely have to buy it on here anyway. They are selling a product telling us exactly what WotC wants them to tell us about it, which they have to do. If you want to call someone shady, it's WotC not DDB. If someone pre-orders something without closely following what's being discussed about it, well buyer beware. The only reason to pre-order anything on here is if you want the dice skins and sheet cosmetics anyway. They took away the option of pre-ordering them on sale.
They generally do not update the content of the books until WotC issues errata for them when the next printing is about to happen, so again the onus is on WotC to provide direction to DDB. As for expecting new content, the description on the preorder page explains that it contains updated races and creatures from older material, so the "new" part is the rebalancing. I doubt VGtM or MToF will be updated unless WotC decides that they need to match what is in M3 and I do not expect DDB to have any information until then. And, as I mentioned before Fantasy Grounds has stated that they will not be syncing the new versions with the old books, so if you want to see the revamped versions you will most likely have to buy it on here anyway. They are selling a product telling us exactly what WotC wants them to tell us about it, which they have to do. If you want to call someone shady, it's WotC not DDB. If someone pre-orders something without closely following what's being discussed about it, well buyer beware. The only reason to pre-order anything on here is if you want the dice skins and sheet cosmetics anyway. They took away the option of pre-ordering them on sale.
Cyb3rM1nd, I hope I don't get dinged for unhelpful posting on this, and I'm not trying to sidetrack, but what kind of substantive evidence do you have about "D&D beyond's [already declining] reputation"? Honestly not trying to be a jerk, I'm genuinely curious, as I was unaware of this being the case. Thanks.
I mean honestly I would agree with him. I can’t tell you hard evidence but as someone who was here since the first day I have seen a steady decline in the improvements of their product. Every book that has something new seems to take years (looking at you Theros gifts/boons). You can clearly see a significant change in how this company has portrayed themselves with product improvements from prior to being purchased by Fandom, to then being purchased by Fandom and also another change when Adam left. If you haven’t noticed this I’m not sure what to tell you.
Diminishing returns on new content is a completely normal thing and should not be conflated with diminishing reputation. The difference is that the latter assumes what is already here is somehow diminished. But it isn't, really. It may be taken for granted but that is not the same thing as being diminished or less useful.
That does not excuse this current fiasco over WotC not letting anyone know what is going on or how much of this book is reprints (i.e. the actual thread topic), but that is on WotC, not DDB.
I strongly disagree with your last statement. If DDB is not allowed to tell us what changes will be made when this book drops, then they should not be preselling it.
They generally do not update the content of the books until WotC issues errata for them when the next printing is about to happen, so again the onus is on WotC to provide direction to DDB. As for expecting new content, the description on the preorder page explains that it contains updated races and creatures from older material, so the "new" part is the rebalancing. I doubt VGtM or MToF will be updated unless WotC decides that they need to match what is in M3 and I do not expect DDB to have any information until then. And, as I mentioned before Fantasy Grounds has stated that they will not be syncing the new versions with the old books, so if you want to see the revamped versions you will most likely have to buy it on here anyway. They are selling a product telling us exactly what WotC wants them to tell us about it, which they have to do. If you want to call someone shady, it's WotC not DDB. If someone pre-orders something without closely following what's being discussed about it, well buyer beware. The only reason to pre-order anything on here is if you want the dice skins and sheet cosmetics anyway. They took away the option of pre-ordering them on sale.
They generally do not update the content of the books until WotC issues errata for them when the next printing is about to happen, so again the onus is on WotC to provide direction to DDB. As for expecting new content, the description on the preorder page explains that it contains updated races and creatures from older material, so the "new" part is the rebalancing. I doubt VGtM or MToF will be updated unless WotC decides that they need to match what is in M3 and I do not expect DDB to have any information until then. And, as I mentioned before Fantasy Grounds has stated that they will not be syncing the new versions with the old books, so if you want to see the revamped versions you will most likely have to buy it on here anyway. They are selling a product telling us exactly what WotC wants them to tell us about it, which they have to do. If you want to call someone shady, it's WotC not DDB. If someone pre-orders something without closely following what's being discussed about it, well buyer beware. The only reason to pre-order anything on here is if you want the dice skins and sheet cosmetics anyway. They took away the option of pre-ordering them on sale.
Cyb3rM1nd, I hope I don't get dinged for unhelpful posting on this, and I'm not trying to sidetrack, but what kind of substantive evidence do you have about "D&D beyond's [already declining] reputation"? Honestly not trying to be a jerk, I'm genuinely curious, as I was unaware of this being the case. Thanks.
I mean honestly I would agree with him. I can’t tell you hard evidence but as someone who was here since the first day I have seen a steady decline in the improvements of their product. Every book that has something new seems to take years (looking at you Theros gifts/boons). You can clearly see a significant change in how this company has portrayed themselves with product improvements from prior to being purchased by Fandom, to then being purchased by Fandom and also another change when Adam left. If you haven’t noticed this I’m not sure what to tell you.
Diminishing returns on new content is a completely normal thing and should not be conflated with diminishing reputation. The difference is that the latter assumes what is already here is somehow diminished. But it isn't, really. It may be taken for granted but that is not the same thing as being diminished or less useful.
That does not excuse this current fiasco over WotC not letting anyone know what is going on or how much of this book is reprints (i.e. the actual thread topic), but that is on WotC, not DDB.
I strongly disagree with your last statement. If DDB is not allowed to tell us what changes will be made when this book drops, then they should not be preselling it.
When DDB puts books up for sale is almost certainly up to WotC and not DDB as well. DDB probably has an advisory role (eg it will takes at least 2 months to get that book ready for sale in our format), but WotC would call the shots on when it is put up for sale, preorders, etc. DDB may or may not be agreeing with any or all of this, but WotC almost certainly is making the decisions.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
When DDB puts books up for sale is almost certainly up to WotC and not DDB as well. DDB probably has an advisory role (eg it will takes at least 2 months to get that book ready for sale in our format), but WotC would call the shots on when it is put up for sale, preorders, etc. DDB may or may not be agreeing with any or all of this, but WotC almost certainly is making the decisions.
Doesn't matter.
DDB's the business taking the money, offering the service, and doing the thing. They get to field angry customers. If they want to kick that back up the chain to Wizards, they're more than entitled to do so. Hell, I'd say they're obligated to do so. But we can't talk to Wizards. We've never been able to. DDB can. They have people, channels, and procedures. They can report the dissatisfaction of their customers in ways that matter, and if they're not doing that right now they bloody well should be.
Business logic is that both parties want to do the thing that will make them the most money, which in this case would be the MMM being separate versions of each monster and race, with the old still a standalone/accessible product that has value and can be sold (because otherwise they will lose money on both the MM, Volos, and MToF as well).
Legally speaking though, their contract might not be as amenable as simply saying that they both want the same thing, and I would bet the lawyers are at work either modifying or adding to the contract whatever is needed to make it that way...and that is a process that can take a while. Armchair quarterbacking aside, we have no idea when they started those discussions (I would certainly believe it could have been weeks or months ago given how contract negotiations can go).
That said, I totally agree that if you have any concerns at all about the overlap of content, then hold off on the pre-order. I am, but I always do. I also do think that offering a pre-order without clarification is an issue, but my reading of the marketplace language would in plain english understanding indicate that these are separate resources from the existing races and monsters in the prior books. It's not explicit (and it should be), but that is something.
Cyb3rM1nd, I hope I don't get dinged for unhelpful posting on this, and I'm not trying to sidetrack, but what kind of substantive evidence do you have about "D&D beyond's [already declining] reputation"? Honestly not trying to be a jerk, I'm genuinely curious, as I was unaware of this being the case. Thanks.
I mean honestly I would agree with him. I can’t tell you hard evidence but as someone who was here since the first day I have seen a steady decline in the improvements of their product. Every book that has something new seems to take years (looking at you Theros gifts/boons). You can clearly see a significant change in how this company has portrayed themselves with product improvements from prior to being purchased by Fandom, to then being purchased by Fandom and also another change when Adam left. If you haven’t noticed this I’m not sure what to tell you.
Diminishing returns on new content is a completely normal thing and should not be conflated with diminishing reputation. The difference is that the latter assumes what is already here is somehow diminished. But it isn't, really. It may be taken for granted but that is not the same thing as being diminished or less useful.
That does not excuse this current fiasco over WotC not letting anyone know what is going on or how much of this book is reprints (i.e. the actual thread topic), but that is on WotC, not DDB.
I strongly disagree with your last statement. If DDB is not allowed to tell us what changes will be made when this book drops, then they should not be preselling it.
If this was a bookstore, would you have the same expectations of them? When the new book in an ongoing series comes out, there are no details as to what is in it nor of any retcons (or plotholes) the author may have introduced.
But that's not the case. This book may whiteout the books that I already have and write over them. We don't know. That's why they shouldn't be doing a presale.
If this was a bookstore, would you have the same expectations of them? When the new book in an ongoing series comes out, there are no details as to what is in it nor of any retcons (or plotholes) the author may have introduced.
But there'd be no chance of getting the new book for free because you already own an older one in the series. It's looking more and more unlikely that that will happen here, but it'd be entirely out of the question in a bookstore. Also, pre-orders in a bookstore normally only happen to ensure you'll have a copy as soon as the book is out; with digital books stock levels are not a concern.
Well, boy howdy, did this topic start out negative and then go downhill from there. And with that statement, I am prepared to get flames - that's fine, go ahead, whatever.
TLDR: I think multiple parts of this topic/responses are downright rude and uncalled for. Do not deny my agency and voice (or anyone else's) by presuming to speak for me or for others. I do believe there aresome worthwhile considerations to entertain regarding the implications of M3 on the wider aspects of game play and mechanics. I do not believe that DDB is the appropriate entity to hold accountable. Keep a civil tongue, please; our words and ideas flow better in milk than in mud.
My more detailed thoughts and explanations beneath the snip, for whatever my 2 silver are worth.
Here's a thing that has been bothering me about many of the replies to the OP - there seems to be a lack of respect for other's agency. And a certain disregard for the practice of "I-referencing." I have also seen more than a few posts using superlative language: always, never, all players, no one, everyone, etc. Maybe I have noticed this more than others, perhaps others noticed it too but didn't think it worth commenting on, but it's something that I have personal trauma-related reasons to pick up on very quickly.
I typically feel that when a person makes a superlative statement without I-references, "[books] that nobody wants or needs," the sentence is more akin to a statement or ultimatum - not a good-faith invitation to civil discussion. I understand that declarative speech is favored by certain societies, such is the case in American culture for example; from my culture of origin, I was taught that certain language patterns were evidence of weakness, self-doubt, or (heaven forbid) emotional rather than factual thinking. So I'm trying to say: I get it. However, I generally find the use of such language conversation-ending and therefore ultimately a poor fit for forums.
And I also have found how much easier it is for me to stand by convictions and speak unapologetically when I own my statements and opinions. In my experience, an I-reference takes what comes across as a unyielding and authoritarian stance and instead makes the sentence a personal statement of strong opinion backed up by character, intention - and the implication that the opinion rests on some actual thought and/or evidence.
Put all together, a declarative statement employing superlatives without I-reference framing implicitly removes agency from others by presuming that all other people automatically agree with the statement, and desire that someone else speak on their behalf. So I'm here to say: Hi. I am a person. I have my own opinions. I'm intelligent enough to make my own consumer decisions. Some of y'all definitely do not speak for me or on my behalf.
The extent of these particular posts have been vehement and declarative enough to have made me too uncomfortable to just walk away from this hot flaming mess. If I might say, I feel taken aback by the unbelievable rudeness and complete lack of civility in some of the posts I have read here. Badly done. Badly done, indeed. In my experience, I find that a civil tongue and amenable manner more often work in my favor when attempting to state my case - flies with honey and all that - and I would urge others on this topic, and in future topics, to consider less diatribe and more discourse.
Furthermore, I might suggest that many who have responded to this topic seem to be both seeing a problem where there needn't be one and demanding with the force of "all of us" that somebody else fix the manufactured issue. And yes, I do believe that there is some part of manufactured drama going on here - I might be giving too much credit, but I firmly feel that the OP and many of the respondents are perfectly intelligent and therefore completely aware that there are corporate related legalities at play in this situation that have most likely tied the hands of the DDB staff to the point of frustration - both theirs and ours.
As someone pointed out earlier, and I agree, the perfectly legitimate aspects of concern here would be more appropriately addressed directly to WotC. It seems to me that Wizards has created a product with some potential ramifications, and it is Wizards who has the legal control of this IP and its products and its rules. In my experience, the retail outlet or franchise point of sale is frequently just as hamstrung and frustrated as the customer (if not more so). Uncivil words and unflattering attitudes will do little, if anything, to assist the situation.
As for me. . . I am a lore junkie, I would buy the entire book on "... and additional lore" alone, never-mind new takes on old favorites. So regardless of how many statblocks in M3 I already own in other books, the tiniest of tweaks or so-called updates are worthwhile investments to me. Based on prior experience with DDB, and the existence of legacy-type race and class options (not to mention the availability of homebrew creations) - I feel confident that DDB will do right by me well before the actual release of the product in May. I might also remind others that it is currently January.
If others disagree and adopt a wait-and-see stance, I believe that is absolutely valid - and entirely within consumer rights. I feel that it is also a person's right to entirely boycott a product and to explain to others their rationale for that decision. Others may view my decisions ill-advised, or believe I am not savvy. That is fine with me, as I am aware that I am making a preorder and that with any such purchase there is always an element of risk. I have heard your input about what I could have, should have done instead, but no thanks, I'm good.
The only other additional info I might add is ... that I have been reliably informed by fellow commenters that I was seeing an automatically applied bundle discount, and not a content-aware, intentional discount. Thus, my additional information is not truly germane. I'll leave it here, but striked, for the sake of transparency. The only other point I might make is this: when I preordered my copy of M3 from DDB earlier today, I did in fact receive a discount for previously-purchased content. This was consistent with my prior experiences as a DDB user, and help to bolster my confidence that, given the time between now and May, the roll out of M3 will be handled with aplomb and expertise. Nevertheless, I still stand as satisfied with my previous DDB user experiences, and remain confident that, given the time between now and May, the implementation of M3 will be handled with as much transparency and expertise as DDB is legally allowed to provide. And now, in an attempt to lighten the tone of this entire topic, here is some self-deprecating humor from me:
WotC / DDB: there's a book coming out with additional . . . Me, a lore junkie:
The only other point I might make is this: when I preordered my copy of M3 from DDB earlier today, I did in fact receive a discount for previously-purchased content.
Would that have been the 10% or 15% discount for owning a Bundle?
The only other point I might make is this: when I preordered my copy of M3 from DDB earlier today, I did in fact receive a discount for previously-purchased content.
Would that have been the 10% or 15% discount for owning a Bundle, I might ask?
It must be. I own the Legendary Bundle and I only have a $4.50 discount on it.
The only other point I might make is this: when I preordered my copy of M3 from DDB earlier today, I did in fact receive a discount for previously-purchased content.
Would that have been the 10% or 15% discount for owning a Bundle?
And if not, how much discount was it (I assume you own both Volo's and the original Mordenkainen's)?
They generally do not update the content of the books until WotC issues errata for them when the next printing is about to happen, so again the onus is on WotC to provide direction to DDB. As for expecting new content, the description on the preorder page explains that it contains updated races and creatures from older material, so the "new" part is the rebalancing. I doubt VGtM or MToF will be updated unless WotC decides that they need to match what is in M3 and I do not expect DDB to have any information until then. And, as I mentioned before Fantasy Grounds has stated that they will not be syncing the new versions with the old books, so if you want to see the revamped versions you will most likely have to buy it on here anyway. They are selling a product telling us exactly what WotC wants them to tell us about it, which they have to do. If you want to call someone shady, it's WotC not DDB. If someone pre-orders something without closely following what's being discussed about it, well buyer beware. The only reason to pre-order anything on here is if you want the dice skins and sheet cosmetics anyway. They took away the option of pre-ordering them on sale.
The errata didn’t remove being an Elf as a requirement unless I’m just missing it.
The app is not updated, I believe.
Edit: No, the errata doc does not mention it, but the reprint does not have it, and as such it is gone.
It may just have been an oversight on the errata doc, but SCAG still states "Bladesingers are elves who bravely defend their people and lands. They are elf wizards who master a school of sword fighting grounded in a tradition of arcane magic" so the restriction is still implied in the Forgotten Realms setting.
They generally do not update the content of the books until WotC issues errata for them when the next printing is about to happen, so again the onus is on WotC to provide direction to DDB. As for expecting new content, the description on the preorder page explains that it contains updated races and creatures from older material, so the "new" part is the rebalancing. I doubt VGtM or MToF will be updated unless WotC decides that they need to match what is in M3 and I do not expect DDB to have any information until then. And, as I mentioned before Fantasy Grounds has stated that they will not be syncing the new versions with the old books, so if you want to see the revamped versions you will most likely have to buy it on here anyway. They are selling a product telling us exactly what WotC wants them to tell us about it, which they have to do. If you want to call someone shady, it's WotC not DDB. If someone pre-orders something without closely following what's being discussed about it, well buyer beware. The only reason to pre-order anything on here is if you want the dice skins and sheet cosmetics anyway. They took away the option of pre-ordering them on sale.
The errata didn’t remove being an Elf as a requirement unless I’m just missing it.
The app is not updated, I believe.
Edit: No, the errata doc does not mention it, but the reprint does not have it, and as such it is gone.
It may just have been an oversight on the errata doc, but SCAG still states "Bladesingers are elves who bravely defend their people and lands. They are elf wizards who master a school of sword fighting grounded in a tradition of arcane magic" so the restriction is still implied in the Forgotten Realms setting.
There used to be an actual feature called 'Restriction: Elf', which is gone. All the features are updated as per Tasha's. The description of the subclass is different in SCAG and TACOE.
The only other point I might make is this: when I preordered my copy of M3 from DDB earlier today, I did in fact receive a discount for previously-purchased content.
Would that have been the 10% or 15% discount for owning a Bundle?
/expressive shrug Maybe? I own or have preordered everything on DDB, so I really wasn't paying much attention at the time; and it was before I even knew (let alone saw) that there was a forum topic aggressively arguing about this book. So I really, really wasn't paying attention at the time.
I know that I expected to pay whatever DDB listed as the price, and at checkout was pleasantly surprised to see the price struck out and a lower one listed with the "previously purchased content" tag. My understanding is that WotC has the book in print listed around $50, digital vendors have the price around $30, and I paid around mid-$20 and change.
Whatever discount I got was sort of a throw-away point on the side. It was less about how much DDB gave back to me, and more about the fact that I am a satisfied customer perfectly happy with the current state of things. If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't have bought it yet, if ever - that is the real point underneath it all. There's no reason to be rude, uncivil, or take out frustrations on others - if you see an issue with a product, or don't have enough information about a product to make a confident decision... simply don't buy the product. I have no issue with others taking this approach. But be careful with the assumption that everyone else feels this way, too.
The point isn't the discount, it's that I never prioritized that in the first place. I cannot speak for anyone except myself - but as I suggested above - different people place value and worth on different aspects of a thing. I, personally, am a lore-junkie and an obsessive collector. That's just a part of who I am; that is something that informs my consumer decisions. I completely understand that others have other priorities and instincts. For me, that I want to maintain a full collection, and that I highly prioritize expanded lore and background information, and that I currently actually have enough spare money in the budget - those were factors that weighed in my decision to make the purchase.
Others may find my reasons insufficient - but, to me, they were in service of my enjoyment of the product and the fun of the game. I do not ask others to agree with or respect my decision - only to recognize and respect that I am the only person who gets to make that decision for me. In return, I will recognize and respect other's decisions made for themselves.
But I do not recognize or respect ill-treatment and abuse of others (be it written, verbal, emotional, physical, or otherwise).
I do hope this clarifies my purchase experience and my ideas for you, and for all y'all.
"The only other point I might make is this: when I preordered my copy of M3 from DDB earlier today, I did in fact receive a discount for previously-purchased content."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
So in case the giant blue banner ribbon across the top of every single DDB page isn't alerting you, DDB finally got permission to put Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiverse up for pre-order. Landing May 17th, with all the junk we all knew was going to be in M3 since months ago.
Left unanswered? What the hell happens to everyone's currently existing versions of various monsters and species and whether this book is being treated as a collection of opt-in reduxes or as a back-hack errata correction, a'la Volo's Guide to DM Headaches getting futzed with twelve times a year because it's a terrible bloody book and it should feel terrible.
Anyone else on board with maybe not buying M3, especially preorder sales, without knowing how Wizards/DDB plans to handle that? because I've seen at least a dozen threads on it and it's an absolutely valid question, wherever one happens to sit on the ongoing forum "debate" over Wizards' new design direction for 5e.
Yeah, nah. No wallet cookies for you until you give us some actual details here, DDB. Not cool. "HEY YOU SHOULD BUY THIS" should not have been the first thing you told us about the whole M3 situation.
Absolutely. Never pre-order anything, first of all. But even as somebody who hardly cares which way they end up handling it, I can agree that it's unacceptable that we don't yet know how they're going to handle it.
I happen to like Volo's, though. :P
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What about Bladesinger?
It was updated in SCAG with the errata for the new printing.
https://media.wizards.com/2021/dnd/downloads/SCAG-Errata.pdf
I strongly disagree with your last statement. If DDB is not allowed to tell us what changes will be made when this book drops, then they should not be preselling it.
The errata didn’t remove being an Elf as a requirement unless I’m just missing it.
The app is not updated, I believe.
Edit: No, the errata doc does not mention it, but the reprint does not have it, and as such it is gone.
When DDB puts books up for sale is almost certainly up to WotC and not DDB as well. DDB probably has an advisory role (eg it will takes at least 2 months to get that book ready for sale in our format), but WotC would call the shots on when it is put up for sale, preorders, etc. DDB may or may not be agreeing with any or all of this, but WotC almost certainly is making the decisions.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Doesn't matter.
DDB's the business taking the money, offering the service, and doing the thing. They get to field angry customers. If they want to kick that back up the chain to Wizards, they're more than entitled to do so. Hell, I'd say they're obligated to do so. But we can't talk to Wizards. We've never been able to. DDB can. They have people, channels, and procedures. They can report the dissatisfaction of their customers in ways that matter, and if they're not doing that right now they bloody well should be.
Please do not contact or message me.
Business logic is that both parties want to do the thing that will make them the most money, which in this case would be the MMM being separate versions of each monster and race, with the old still a standalone/accessible product that has value and can be sold (because otherwise they will lose money on both the MM, Volos, and MToF as well).
Legally speaking though, their contract might not be as amenable as simply saying that they both want the same thing, and I would bet the lawyers are at work either modifying or adding to the contract whatever is needed to make it that way...and that is a process that can take a while. Armchair quarterbacking aside, we have no idea when they started those discussions (I would certainly believe it could have been weeks or months ago given how contract negotiations can go).
That said, I totally agree that if you have any concerns at all about the overlap of content, then hold off on the pre-order. I am, but I always do. I also do think that offering a pre-order without clarification is an issue, but my reading of the marketplace language would in plain english understanding indicate that these are separate resources from the existing races and monsters in the prior books. It's not explicit (and it should be), but that is something.
But that's not the case. This book may whiteout the books that I already have and write over them. We don't know. That's why they shouldn't be doing a presale.
But there'd be no chance of getting the new book for free because you already own an older one in the series. It's looking more and more unlikely that that will happen here, but it'd be entirely out of the question in a bookstore. Also, pre-orders in a bookstore normally only happen to ensure you'll have a copy as soon as the book is out; with digital books stock levels are not a concern.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Well, boy howdy, did this topic start out negative and then go downhill from there. And with that statement, I am prepared to get flames - that's fine, go ahead, whatever.
TLDR: I think multiple parts of this topic/responses are downright rude and uncalled for. Do not deny my agency and voice (or anyone else's) by presuming to speak for me or for others. I do believe there are some worthwhile considerations to entertain regarding the implications of M3 on the wider aspects of game play and mechanics. I do not believe that DDB is the appropriate entity to hold accountable. Keep a civil tongue, please; our words and ideas flow better in milk than in mud.
My more detailed thoughts and explanations beneath the snip, for whatever my 2 silver are worth.
Here's a thing that has been bothering me about many of the replies to the OP - there seems to be a lack of respect for other's agency. And a certain disregard for the practice of "I-referencing." I have also seen more than a few posts using superlative language: always, never, all players, no one, everyone, etc. Maybe I have noticed this more than others, perhaps others noticed it too but didn't think it worth commenting on, but it's something that I have personal trauma-related reasons to pick up on very quickly.
I typically feel that when a person makes a superlative statement without I-references, "[books] that nobody wants or needs," the sentence is more akin to a statement or ultimatum - not a good-faith invitation to civil discussion. I understand that declarative speech is favored by certain societies, such is the case in American culture for example; from my culture of origin, I was taught that certain language patterns were evidence of weakness, self-doubt, or (heaven forbid) emotional rather than factual thinking. So I'm trying to say: I get it. However, I generally find the use of such language conversation-ending and therefore ultimately a poor fit for forums.
And I also have found how much easier it is for me to stand by convictions and speak unapologetically when I own my statements and opinions. In my experience, an I-reference takes what comes across as a unyielding and authoritarian stance and instead makes the sentence a personal statement of strong opinion backed up by character, intention - and the implication that the opinion rests on some actual thought and/or evidence.
Put all together, a declarative statement employing superlatives without I-reference framing implicitly removes agency from others by presuming that all other people automatically agree with the statement, and desire that someone else speak on their behalf. So I'm here to say: Hi. I am a person. I have my own opinions. I'm intelligent enough to make my own consumer decisions. Some of y'all definitely do not speak for me or on my behalf.
The extent of these particular posts have been vehement and declarative enough to have made me too uncomfortable to just walk away from this hot flaming mess. If I might say, I feel taken aback by the unbelievable rudeness and complete lack of civility in some of the posts I have read here. Badly done. Badly done, indeed. In my experience, I find that a civil tongue and amenable manner more often work in my favor when attempting to state my case - flies with honey and all that - and I would urge others on this topic, and in future topics, to consider less diatribe and more discourse.
Furthermore, I might suggest that many who have responded to this topic seem to be both seeing a problem where there needn't be one and demanding with the force of "all of us" that somebody else fix the manufactured issue. And yes, I do believe that there is some part of manufactured drama going on here - I might be giving too much credit, but I firmly feel that the OP and many of the respondents are perfectly intelligent and therefore completely aware that there are corporate related legalities at play in this situation that have most likely tied the hands of the DDB staff to the point of frustration - both theirs and ours.
As someone pointed out earlier, and I agree, the perfectly legitimate aspects of concern here would be more appropriately addressed directly to WotC. It seems to me that Wizards has created a product with some potential ramifications, and it is Wizards who has the legal control of this IP and its products and its rules. In my experience, the retail outlet or franchise point of sale is frequently just as hamstrung and frustrated as the customer (if not more so). Uncivil words and unflattering attitudes will do little, if anything, to assist the situation.
As for me. . . I am a lore junkie, I would buy the entire book on "... and additional lore" alone, never-mind new takes on old favorites. So regardless of how many statblocks in M3 I already own in other books, the tiniest of tweaks or so-called updates are worthwhile investments to me. Based on prior experience with DDB, and the existence of legacy-type race and class options (not to mention the availability of homebrew creations) - I feel confident that DDB will do right by me well before the actual release of the product in May. I might also remind others that it is currently January.
If others disagree and adopt a wait-and-see stance, I believe that is absolutely valid - and entirely within consumer rights. I feel that it is also a person's right to entirely boycott a product and to explain to others their rationale for that decision. Others may view my decisions ill-advised, or believe I am not savvy. That is fine with me, as I am aware that I am making a preorder and that with any such purchase there is always an element of risk. I have heard your input about what I could have, should have done instead, but no thanks, I'm good.
The only other additional info I might add is ... that I have been reliably informed by fellow commenters that I was seeing an automatically applied bundle discount, and not a content-aware, intentional discount. Thus, my additional information is not truly germane. I'll leave it here, but striked, for the sake of transparency.
The only other point I might make is this: when I preordered my copy of M3 from DDB earlier today, I did in fact receive a discount for previously-purchased content. This was consistent with my prior experiences as a DDB user, and help to bolster my confidence that, given the time between now and May, the roll out of M3 will be handled with aplomb and expertise.Nevertheless, I still stand as satisfied with my previous DDB user experiences, and remain confident that, given the time between now and May, the implementation of M3 will be handled with as much transparency and expertise as DDB is legally allowed to provide. And now, in an attempt to lighten the tone of this entire topic, here is some self-deprecating humor from me:WotC / DDB: there's a book coming out with additional . . .
Me, a lore junkie:
💜 Spes Æternum Oritur 💜
Would that have been the 10% or 15% discount for owning a Bundle?
It must be. I own the Legendary Bundle and I only have a $4.50 discount on it.
Okay, well, yeah. That means nothing, that's just an automated calculation...
And if not, how much discount was it (I assume you own both Volo's and the original Mordenkainen's)?
edit: well, this is now rhetorical :p
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
It may just have been an oversight on the errata doc, but SCAG still states "Bladesingers are elves who bravely defend their people and lands. They are elf wizards who master a school of sword fighting grounded in a tradition of arcane magic" so the restriction is still implied in the Forgotten Realms setting.
There used to be an actual feature called 'Restriction: Elf', which is gone. All the features are updated as per Tasha's. The description of the subclass is different in SCAG and TACOE.
/expressive shrug
Maybe? I own or have preordered everything on DDB, so I really wasn't paying much attention at the time; and it was before I even knew (let alone saw) that there was a forum topic aggressively arguing about this book. So I really, really wasn't paying attention at the time.
I know that I expected to pay whatever DDB listed as the price, and at checkout was pleasantly surprised to see the price struck out and a lower one listed with the "previously purchased content" tag. My understanding is that WotC has the book in print listed around $50, digital vendors have the price around $30, and I paid around mid-$20 and change.
Whatever discount I got was sort of a throw-away point on the side. It was less about how much DDB gave back to me, and more about the fact that I am a satisfied customer perfectly happy with the current state of things. If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't have bought it yet, if ever - that is the real point underneath it all. There's no reason to be rude, uncivil, or take out frustrations on others - if you see an issue with a product, or don't have enough information about a product to make a confident decision... simply don't buy the product. I have no issue with others taking this approach. But be careful with the assumption that everyone else feels this way, too.
The point isn't the discount, it's that I never prioritized that in the first place. I cannot speak for anyone except myself - but as I suggested above - different people place value and worth on different aspects of a thing. I, personally, am a lore-junkie and an obsessive collector. That's just a part of who I am; that is something that informs my consumer decisions. I completely understand that others have other priorities and instincts. For me, that I want to maintain a full collection, and that I highly prioritize expanded lore and background information, and that I currently actually have enough spare money in the budget - those were factors that weighed in my decision to make the purchase.
Others may find my reasons insufficient - but, to me, they were in service of my enjoyment of the product and the fun of the game. I do not ask others to agree with or respect my decision - only to recognize and respect that I am the only person who gets to make that decision for me. In return, I will recognize and respect other's decisions made for themselves.
But I do not recognize or respect ill-treatment and abuse of others (be it written, verbal, emotional, physical, or otherwise).
I do hope this clarifies my purchase experience and my ideas for you, and for all y'all.
💜 Spes Æternum Oritur 💜
"The only other point I might make is this: when I preordered my copy of M3 from DDB earlier today, I did in fact receive a discount for previously-purchased content."
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Absolutely. Never pre-order anything, first of all. But even as somebody who hardly cares which way they end up handling it, I can agree that it's unacceptable that we don't yet know how they're going to handle it.
I happen to like Volo's, though. :P