Rations is an easy example of simplicity I think one that has more meat on its bones (pun intended) is the following example. It is in my opinion in the same vein as the op's post and is a discussion I have had with people in the past.
GM: Your group of 6 are fighting 10 15' tall 10' wide giants in semi open terrain and you kill one. So what happens next?
Player(s): We move on to the next one.
GM: What happens to the body?
Player(s): Well it falls to the ground?
GM: So it takes up a 15' long by 10' tall space? Or probably smaller space? Say 15' long by 6-9' tall, then that forms an obstacle for your PC's to overcome.
Player(s): Sure that makes sense. So I go over it.
GM to player and self: Do you use simple movement? Or it is difficult terrain or double difficult terrain or make climbing rolls to climb the mound of dead flesh or use magic or another resource to go over it or do you/can you simple go around it?
GM to self: Can I have the other giants declare as their action they are targeting things coming over their dead companion and what mods to I give to the giants and PC's.
In some cases the players and GM's simply prefer the dead body to effectively disappear from the tactical map or simply say in all cases this situation cost double or more movement and ignore any mods the GM may have to come up with on the fly for the PC's being in a tough position when they are climbing up/climbing down the body or balancing on top of it. I can say that the first time I had a GM take the more advanced approach to a situation such as the above it dramatically changed how I thought about his game and my PC in the game. And I think I can say that it also effected the others in the group the same way.
Having said that the above case may not work for every group. In your group maybe having the players speak in strange voices, dressing up as their PC bringing props or having cross over references in game (such as in D&D 5e, Dude your PC's cell phone is ringing) or having your sword play music that you play from your electronic device during combat. I know people that most of the above breaks the fun they have in the game and it is kept to a minimum and for those that like and or expect that in their games I hope they can find one that fulfills all of their wants and desires.
How long your game is IMHO has a dramatic impact on how the GM runs the game. If the game is 4 hours or less then details tend to fall by the way side for expediency of story flow and in games that allow for longer play 6+ hours their tends to be more downtime RP and ability to add in more detail.
In the past when time has been short I have done individual downtime over the net and saved the action for in person. But some have trouble jumping back and forth in the time line and RPing being wounded (not a big deal in 5E vs some other games) and also having to adjust some the things done on the net based on in person combat. ie a person dies so they would have trouble having a conversation with NPC Y so the group has to do so with another person while trying/wanting to get the PC res'ed.
I think part of the reason I shy away from these kinds of "bookkeeping" things is that they kill the pacing of the story. As LotR has already been invoked, I'll point out that there's a reason we didn't see every hunting trip and campfire meal on that journey. Especially when you have people like Aragorn or Legolas in the party, is there really any tension at all in the question of whether they will be able to find food?
Did you forget about the part where Smeagol threw away the last elven rations and blamed it on Sam? Or when they were nearing the volcano with no water and no food?
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I think part of the reason I shy away from these kinds of "bookkeeping" things is that they kill the pacing of the story. As LotR has already been invoked, I'll point out that there's a reason we didn't see every hunting trip and campfire meal on that journey. Especially when you have people like Aragorn or Legolas in the party, is there really any tension at all in the question of whether they will be able to find food?
Did you forget about the part where Smeagol threw away the last elven rations and blamed it on Sam? Or when they were nearing the volcano with no water and no food?
Honestly, I liked that part of it. Rations weren't important and it was just implied people were eating until it became something that should be brought up because it logically made sense.
I think part of the reason I shy away from these kinds of "bookkeeping" things is that they kill the pacing of the story.
It doesn’t have to though. Whenever the party takes a rest you narrate a little, then take care of some lite bookkeeping: ”So you all make a quick meal and bandage your wounds. Everyone, take a short rest.” Right? Well, whenever you remember to just throw in a “…and mark off a day’s rations.” Then you just let things occur naturally:
I think part of the reason I shy away from these kinds of "bookkeeping" things is that they kill the pacing of the story. As LotR has already been invoked, I'll point out that there's a reason we didn't see every hunting trip and campfire meal on that journey. Especially when you have people like Aragorn or Legolas in the party, is there really any tension at all in the question of whether they will be able to find food?
Did you forget about the part where Smeagol threw away the last elven rations and blamed it on Sam? Or when they were nearing the volcano with no water and no food?
Honestly, I liked that part of it. Rations weren't important and it was just implied people were eating until it became something that should be brought up because it logically made sense.
It’ll likely only become an issue whenever it would make sense logically because, otherwise it wouldn’t become an issue. It doesn’t have to be a big thing, if it happens once in a campaign that they are on half rations for a few days because [insert dramatic reason] then it doesn’t kill pacing. It may shift or adjust the pacing, but if the pacing never goes down a bit then you eventually run out of room to ramp it up again.
Right, that entire post is how I deal with rations. We currently just got out of a mine we spent 11 days in, and each of us went in with 20 days of rations. When we got out, made it a point to go "Ok, everyone should be down to 9 days of rations. Fix your character sheets."
How long your game is IMHO has a dramatic impact on how the GM runs the game. If the game is 4 hours or less then details tend to fall by the way side for expediency of story flow and in games that allow for longer play 6+ hours their tends to be more downtime RP and ability to add in more detail.
My group meets for 3-4 hours every Wednesday and I still have them track rations. It’s just another tool to add tension for them to resolve. Tension + Resolution = Drama. I saw giv ‘em a dramatic game.
I think part of the reason I shy away from these kinds of "bookkeeping" things is that they kill the pacing of the story.
It doesn’t have to though. Whenever the party takes a rest you narrate a little, then take care of some lite bookkeeping: ”So you all make a quick meal and bandage your wounds. Everyone, take a short rest.” Right? Well, whenever you remember to just throw in a “…and mark off a day’s rations.” Then you just let things occur naturally:
I think part of the reason I shy away from these kinds of "bookkeeping" things is that they kill the pacing of the story. As LotR has already been invoked, I'll point out that there's a reason we didn't see every hunting trip and campfire meal on that journey. Especially when you have people like Aragorn or Legolas in the party, is there really any tension at all in the question of whether they will be able to find food?
Did you forget about the part where Smeagol threw away the last elven rations and blamed it on Sam? Or when they were nearing the volcano with no water and no food?
Honestly, I liked that part of it. Rations weren't important and it was just implied people were eating until it became something that should be brought up because it logically made sense.
It’ll likely only become an issue whenever it would make sense logically because, otherwise it wouldn’t become an issue. It doesn’t have to be a big thing, if it happens once in a campaign that they are on half rations for a few days because [insert dramatic reason] then it doesn’t kill pacing. It may shift or adjust the pacing, but if the pacing never goes down a bit then you eventually run out of room to ramp it up again.
As stated all 3 of my current campaigns I am DMing include an Outlander, rations and water really don't matter. The party have just got into an area influenced by an Aboleth so water will be a bit harder to get but the warlock has purify water as a spell and they have a decanter of endless water as well (which they have forgotten is in the bag of holding). In my experiance at least 1 player usually takes the Outlander background just for this reason.
I'm a but surprised that so many regard managing rations as a tedious detail. It's a great way to challenge player who find themselves in hostile surroundings without modelling calories and fluid needs. In fact it is about as simple as it gets, and it has never been easier too keep track (a couple of clicks on your ddb sheet and you've adjusted the number in your inventory). It also provide foragers/druid with an opportunity to shine if the group finds themselves separated from the supplies. Even the RP of the grumbling character "Goodberries....again?!" provides fun opportunities for an almost non-existent effort from players to keep track on a digital sheet (in many cases at least). Running out of food is serious business when you are wearing armour and lugging weapons, and a big bag of loot. No energy leads to exhaustion, and once that scale starts ramping up - a group might find itself very challenged quickly - even at higher levels. But then again, I also make my players keep track of the arrows, and how much you can actually fit into a backpack. It isn't so much book-keeping as an element of grounding characters in the realities of still needing to eat, sleep etc.
As stated all 3 of my current campaigns I am DMing include an Outlander, rations and water really don't matter.
I assume this is because WotC wanted to leave this up to the DM, but the Outlander's Wanderer feature not mentioning anything about how long it takes to forage or how much of an area this search covers might give the impression it's instantaneous and doesn't require moving an inch. I'm not suggesting getting too hung up over this either, but it seems logical to occasionally mention this could take as long as a short rest or even longer, and will have the Outlander character moving around looking for game trails and edible plants.
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As stated all 3 of my current campaigns I am DMing include an Outlander, rations and water really don't matter.
I assume this is because WotC wanted to leave this up to the DM, but the Outlander's Wanderer feature not mentioning anything about how long it takes to forage or how much of an area this search covers might give the impression it's instantaneous and doesn't require moving an inch. I'm not suggesting getting too hung up over this either, but it seems logical to occasionally mention this could take as long as a short rest or even longer, and will have the Outlander character moving around looking for game trails and edible plants.
The way I handle it is that the Outlander is able to find things as they are travelling through the wilderness and collect them, maybe shoot a rabbit or 2 or collect edible plants as they are travelling but, I also always assume the first 1-2 hours of a long rest are, in reality, the party setting, up, gathering fire wood and starting a fire, watching the sun go down etc. So outlander can then go out and spend an hour at the start of this looking and hunting for things.
Alternativley while the Outlander is on watch they might be out catching a few night time animals for breakfast.
As standard if the party are making efforts not to be found I always make them roll stealth roles when setting up for a long rest anyway, this determines how quiet they are being, how well they have covered tracks etc.
Yep. I use rations/food tracking in my games, same as arrows and such too.
It isn’t usually a major thing, but events have occurred where it became more pressing.. (Party got lost once for a good while in the wilderness, Once they were briefly trapped in a pocket dimension which had no resources of its own.)
Outlanders can hunt/forage.. but I usually base any of that around my experiences hunting and growing up around hunters in Appalachia. Foraging takes time.Catching/cleaning-preparing/cooking food isn’t quick, and it requires a good bit of focus..
If the Outlander is foraging during his watch… he isn’t on watch, he has abandoned his post to go hunting and lets all hope the party doesn’t get ambushed in their absence.
In general I am glad to hear that but I can say that in my experience a lot of groups that meet for shorter periods of time do not do track basic things as they feel time is limited and often like to save face time for combat. Especially if they can only game 1 per 2+ weeks.
IMHO, the players are reacting to the game and making PC choices based on what is expected in the game. I think an important question to ask is "If my players were not doing this or are not doing this what PC choices are they making instead?" In some games there are rules for changing PC gen if the GM plans on ignoring, minimizing or limiting specific game areas but D&D 5e is not one of those.
I can also say I find a GM's session zero about the setting very important. If the game is going to be almost entirely city based court drama that might exclude some classes or make some classes less playable.
If the Outlander is foraging during his watch… he isn’t on watch, he has abandoned his post to go hunting and lets all hope the party doesn’t get ambushed in their absence.
Or that the Outlander gets jumped by something that goes bump in the night while everyone else is sleeping. Again, not getting too hung up over it but the players should not take it as a given that foraging food is a freebie. If they're pressed for time they can choose to move fast or to forage, but not both. If someone goes out to hunt, they're not resting or taking a watch. It's not going to bite them in the ass every time, but there is a non-negligible chance of adverse consequences.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
In general I am glad to hear that but I can say that in my experience a lot of groups that meet for shorter periods of time do not do track basic things as they feel time is limited and often like to save face time for combat. Especially if they can only game 1 per 2+ weeks.
Combat is their least favorite part, we’re an RP heavy table. I only hit them with significant combat about 1ce / month, the rest is narrative with more social, trap, puzzle encounters.
I try and provide advice and comments with the caveat that there are lots of types of games and styles in RPGing and my advice hopefully helps but I am aware that is not always the case.
D and D rations? Why leave home without a Cleric? I would always want a Cleric in my group.
Do you always want to play a cleric, or is everyone expected to take a turn? Not trying to be snide here, it's just that "always bring a cleric" feels so forced.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
D and D rations? Why leave home without a Cleric? I would always want a Cleric in my group.
Do you always want to play a cleric, or is everyone expected to take a turn? Not trying to be snide here, it's just that "always bring a cleric" feels so forced.
I mostly prefer to play a Wizard. It seems like a bad idea to not have a Cleric in the group.
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Rations is an easy example of simplicity I think one that has more meat on its bones (pun intended) is the following example. It is in my opinion in the same vein as the op's post and is a discussion I have had with people in the past.
GM: Your group of 6 are fighting 10 15' tall 10' wide giants in semi open terrain and you kill one. So what happens next?
Player(s): We move on to the next one.
GM: What happens to the body?
Player(s): Well it falls to the ground?
GM: So it takes up a 15' long by 10' tall space? Or probably smaller space? Say 15' long by 6-9' tall, then that forms an obstacle for your PC's to overcome.
Player(s): Sure that makes sense. So I go over it.
GM to player and self: Do you use simple movement? Or it is difficult terrain or double difficult terrain or make climbing rolls to climb the mound of dead flesh or use magic or another resource to go over it or do you/can you simple go around it?
GM to self: Can I have the other giants declare as their action they are targeting things coming over their dead companion and what mods to I give to the giants and PC's.
In some cases the players and GM's simply prefer the dead body to effectively disappear from the tactical map or simply say in all cases this situation cost double or more movement and ignore any mods the GM may have to come up with on the fly for the PC's being in a tough position when they are climbing up/climbing down the body or balancing on top of it. I can say that the first time I had a GM take the more advanced approach to a situation such as the above it dramatically changed how I thought about his game and my PC in the game. And I think I can say that it also effected the others in the group the same way.
Having said that the above case may not work for every group. In your group maybe having the players speak in strange voices, dressing up as their PC bringing props or having cross over references in game (such as in D&D 5e, Dude your PC's cell phone is ringing) or having your sword play music that you play from your electronic device during combat. I know people that most of the above breaks the fun they have in the game and it is kept to a minimum and for those that like and or expect that in their games I hope they can find one that fulfills all of their wants and desires.
MDC
I forgot one important point.
How long your game is IMHO has a dramatic impact on how the GM runs the game. If the game is 4 hours or less then details tend to fall by the way side for expediency of story flow and in games that allow for longer play 6+ hours their tends to be more downtime RP and ability to add in more detail.
In the past when time has been short I have done individual downtime over the net and saved the action for in person. But some have trouble jumping back and forth in the time line and RPing being wounded (not a big deal in 5E vs some other games) and also having to adjust some the things done on the net based on in person combat. ie a person dies so they would have trouble having a conversation with NPC Y so the group has to do so with another person while trying/wanting to get the PC res'ed.
MDC
Did you forget about the part where Smeagol threw away the last elven rations and blamed it on Sam? Or when they were nearing the volcano with no water and no food?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Honestly, I liked that part of it. Rations weren't important and it was just implied people were eating until it became something that should be brought up because it logically made sense.
It doesn’t have to though. Whenever the party takes a rest you narrate a little, then take care of some lite bookkeeping: ”So you all make a quick meal and bandage your wounds. Everyone, take a short rest.” Right? Well, whenever you remember to just throw in a “…and mark off a day’s rations.” Then you just let things occur naturally:
It’ll likely only become an issue whenever it would make sense logically because, otherwise it wouldn’t become an issue. It doesn’t have to be a big thing, if it happens once in a campaign that they are on half rations for a few days because [insert dramatic reason] then it doesn’t kill pacing. It may shift or adjust the pacing, but if the pacing never goes down a bit then you eventually run out of room to ramp it up again.
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Right, that entire post is how I deal with rations. We currently just got out of a mine we spent 11 days in, and each of us went in with 20 days of rations. When we got out, made it a point to go "Ok, everyone should be down to 9 days of rations. Fix your character sheets."
My group meets for 3-4 hours every Wednesday and I still have them track rations. It’s just another tool to add tension for them to resolve. Tension + Resolution = Drama. I saw giv ‘em a dramatic game.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
As stated all 3 of my current campaigns I am DMing include an Outlander, rations and water really don't matter. The party have just got into an area influenced by an Aboleth so water will be a bit harder to get but the warlock has purify water as a spell and they have a decanter of endless water as well (which they have forgotten is in the bag of holding). In my experiance at least 1 player usually takes the Outlander background just for this reason.
I'm a but surprised that so many regard managing rations as a tedious detail. It's a great way to challenge player who find themselves in hostile surroundings without modelling calories and fluid needs. In fact it is about as simple as it gets, and it has never been easier too keep track (a couple of clicks on your ddb sheet and you've adjusted the number in your inventory).
It also provide foragers/druid with an opportunity to shine if the group finds themselves separated from the supplies. Even the RP of the grumbling character "Goodberries....again?!" provides fun opportunities for an almost non-existent effort from players to keep track on a digital sheet (in many cases at least).
Running out of food is serious business when you are wearing armour and lugging weapons, and a big bag of loot. No energy leads to exhaustion, and once that scale starts ramping up - a group might find itself very challenged quickly - even at higher levels.
But then again, I also make my players keep track of the arrows, and how much you can actually fit into a backpack. It isn't so much book-keeping as an element of grounding characters in the realities of still needing to eat, sleep etc.
I assume this is because WotC wanted to leave this up to the DM, but the Outlander's Wanderer feature not mentioning anything about how long it takes to forage or how much of an area this search covers might give the impression it's instantaneous and doesn't require moving an inch. I'm not suggesting getting too hung up over this either, but it seems logical to occasionally mention this could take as long as a short rest or even longer, and will have the Outlander character moving around looking for game trails and edible plants.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
The way I handle it is that the Outlander is able to find things as they are travelling through the wilderness and collect them, maybe shoot a rabbit or 2 or collect edible plants as they are travelling but, I also always assume the first 1-2 hours of a long rest are, in reality, the party setting, up, gathering fire wood and starting a fire, watching the sun go down etc. So outlander can then go out and spend an hour at the start of this looking and hunting for things.
Alternativley while the Outlander is on watch they might be out catching a few night time animals for breakfast.
As standard if the party are making efforts not to be found I always make them roll stealth roles when setting up for a long rest anyway, this determines how quiet they are being, how well they have covered tracks etc.
Yep. I use rations/food tracking in my games, same as arrows and such too.
It isn’t usually a major thing, but events have occurred where it became more pressing.. (Party got lost once for a good while in the wilderness, Once they were briefly trapped in a pocket dimension which had no resources of its own.)
Outlanders can hunt/forage.. but I usually base any of that around my experiences hunting and growing up around hunters in Appalachia. Foraging takes time.Catching/cleaning-preparing/cooking food isn’t quick, and it requires a good bit of focus..
If the Outlander is foraging during his watch… he isn’t on watch, he has abandoned his post to go hunting and lets all hope the party doesn’t get ambushed in their absence.
In general I am glad to hear that but I can say that in my experience a lot of groups that meet for shorter periods of time do not do track basic things as they feel time is limited and often like to save face time for combat. Especially if they can only game 1 per 2+ weeks.
I am replying to the "outlander" statement.
IMHO, the players are reacting to the game and making PC choices based on what is expected in the game. I think an important question to ask is "If my players were not doing this or are not doing this what PC choices are they making instead?" In some games there are rules for changing PC gen if the GM plans on ignoring, minimizing or limiting specific game areas but D&D 5e is not one of those.
I can also say I find a GM's session zero about the setting very important. If the game is going to be almost entirely city based court drama that might exclude some classes or make some classes less playable.
MDC
Or that the Outlander gets jumped by something that goes bump in the night while everyone else is sleeping. Again, not getting too hung up over it but the players should not take it as a given that foraging food is a freebie. If they're pressed for time they can choose to move fast or to forage, but not both. If someone goes out to hunt, they're not resting or taking a watch. It's not going to bite them in the ass every time, but there is a non-negligible chance of adverse consequences.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Combat is their least favorite part, we’re an RP heavy table. I only hit them with significant combat about 1ce / month, the rest is narrative with more social, trap, puzzle encounters.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
That is good to know.
I try and provide advice and comments with the caveat that there are lots of types of games and styles in RPGing and my advice hopefully helps but I am aware that is not always the case.
MDC
D and D rations? Why leave home without a Cleric? I would always want a Cleric in my group.
Do you always want to play a cleric, or is everyone expected to take a turn? Not trying to be snide here, it's just that "always bring a cleric" feels so forced.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I mostly prefer to play a Wizard. It seems like a bad idea to not have a Cleric in the group.