Inside "Xanathar's guide to everything" there is a table to calculate Tiefling ancestry, it goes as follows:
- Two humans have an offspring who is touched by the infernal plane because of something the human's ancestry did. - A human and a Tiefling have a baby and it turns out to be another Tiefling. - A tiefling and a human... same - A human and a Devil - A devil and a human
Does this mean that a couple made of two Tieflings can't have baby Tieflings? This would mean that the image of a "Tiefling guetto" in the city, caused by people in communities pushing them there out of mistrust... wouldn't have children in the streets who have pure Tiefling ancestry.
Or does it mean that the regular course is two Tieflings having Tiefling babies and you only roll on the table if you want it to be otherwise? I assume it could be a roll as follows:
01 - 70 Both Parents Tiefling 71- 100 Roll on the Table
It seems like either an erroneous omission, or an unwritten assumption that Tieflings cannot reproduce with each other. I suspect the former. I'd assume they meant for you to use the tables only when deviating from the norm, but then Half-Orc and Half-Elf both have "both parents were half-*" in their tables.
Don't worry, though, you don't have to use those tables if you don't want to, and you can modify them as you wish; they're only there to help you flesh out the character's backstory. =)
The writers probably just focused on mixed cases, rather than same-race couples, just to allay the half-elf, half-orc situation. Any humanoid plus a tiefling will always result in a tiefling. Elf, dwarf, halfling, human, gnome, orc, etc.
Though, there is an error with that chart in the OP - a humanoid and a devil having a baby would not result in a tiefling - it would result in a Cambion.
I'm just wondering where these dormant genes are coming from. The child of a humanoid and a tiefling is always going to be a tiefling; the infernal traits are dominant, never receessive, always showing up, thanks to Asmodeus' curse.
Though, there is an error with that chart in the OP - a humanoid and a devil having a baby would not result in a tiefling - it would result in a Cambion.
The Monster Manual doesn't say the result is always a Cambion though; in fact it doesn't directly address devil parents at all. The result might depend on the rank of devil involved and whether the child gets more humanoid genes or devil genes.
I'm just wondering where these dormant genes are coming from. The child of a humanoid and a tiefling is always going to be a tiefling; the infernal traits are dominant, never receessive, always showing up, thanks to Asmodeus' curse.
Since the ritual that spread the curse of Asmodeus a century ago, tieflings have been born on Faerûn that belong to other infernal bloodlines, but those that bear the mark of the archdevil (and their descendants) remain the most numerous examples of their kind by far.
looking at the other charts for comparison, they each have a 4 step build.... so it may not be that Tieflings can't have children together, it could just be that the authors where maintaining the 4 step aspect of the chart.
Setting wise, it is also very possible that it is unusual for multiple tieflings to be in a single place. This would result in the possibility of two tieflings having a child together being a very rare situation. Given that their description states that they are also inclined towards distrusting other tieflings, I can easily see why they may gravitate more towards humans for romance, as the degree of trust that is necessary is not present.
Historically speaking, cambion is the d&d name of a half-fiend, which had different traits than tieflings. Including being considered an Outsider/Fiend. The MM doesn't go into detail, but there is plenty of existing lore - lore that 5e specifically carries forwards - to support it. Sometimes, half-fiends had different names, or abilities, like the alu-fiend, but they all still were different categories from tieflings.
And I'm aware of the other lineages, but look at the chart. It says, right above, that the child of a tielfling is a tiefling, not a humanoid with recessive fiend traits. The Xanathar book contradicts itself. Plus, if we talk FR, those lineages have just three or four generations to manifest, about a century, one of which is a half-fiend. Not a lot of time to go dormant, even if you assume that it can go dormant over a long time. Especially for something that takes up half a roll options, suggesting it's common.
Forgotten Realms wise, it is still a 'new' thing to have the child of the tiefling always be a tiefling. As they are rolling old lore forward with 5e, you must take into account that way back in 2nd edition when Planescape was introduced a tiefling's appearance was more randomized and that the tiefling quality could skip a few generations. With the lore rolled forward this means that there are still tieflings within the FR that have heritage from the other lower planes as well.... Gehenna, Hades, Carceri, and the Abyss all have denizens that could sire a lineage of tieflings.
Historically speaking, cambion is the d&d name of a half-fiend, which had different traits than tieflings. Including being considered an Outsider/Fiend. The MM doesn't go into detail, but there is plenty of existing lore - lore that 5e specifically carries forwards - to support it. Sometimes, half-fiends had different names, or abilities, like the alu-fiend, but they all still were different categories from tieflings.
And I'm aware of the other lineages, but look at the chart. It says, right above, that the child of a tielfling is a tiefling, not a humanoid with recessive fiend traits. The Xanathar book contradicts itself.
The infernal heritage doesn't have to be from a tiefling though. The character in question could be the first tiefling in family tree.
Plus, if we talk FR, those lineages have just three or four generations to manifest, about a century, one of which is a half-fiend. Not a lot of time to go dormant, even if you assume that it can go dormant over a long time. Especially for something that takes up half a roll options, suggesting it's common.
Neither the PH nor Xanathar's Guide assume you're playing in FR though. Heck, the Player's Handbook implies a much longer time span than 3 or 4 generations:
And to twist the knife, tieflings know that this is because a pact struck generations ago infused the essence of Asmodeus—overlord of the Nine Hells—into their bloodline. Their appearance and their nature are not their fault but the result of an ancient sin, for which they and their children and their children’s children will always be held accountable.
D&D is full of weird folkloric elements. I don't think it's outrageous to think a human ancestor made a stupid pact with an archdevil that resulted in a tiefling being born into the family several generations later. That sounds par for the course. After all, yuan-ti have rituals to turn humans into yuan-ti and lesser yuan-ti into more snake-like yuan-ti.
A bit unrelated tiefling question: Humans aren't the only race who can procreate with demons and have part-fiendish offspring with them. So, elven and dwarven and halfling tieflings have to be thing, right? But if one of their parents was an elf and the other a tiefling with elven heritage or whatever ... it doesn't make sense for me that they would have a human lifespan plus some extra decades. It also doesn't make sense for me that they would suddenly look like humans plus horns and hooves and a tail. I mean, yeah, they're tieflings, but they have elven or dwarven or halfling lineage, and that would inform their lifespan and appearance as well, right?
That table only talks about humans, and of tieflings as offspring of fiends and humans, but we know humans aren't the only ones who can have planetouched children. Else Fey'ri and Tanarukk wouldn't be a thing.
I'm just wondering where these dormant genes are coming from. The child of a humanoid and a tiefling is always going to be a tiefling; the infernal traits are dominant, never receessive, always showing up, thanks to Asmodeus' curse.
However, we are discussing a race that was ultimately created via magic. The perpetrators of the original ritual were human and the ritual either turned them into tieflings or granted them some power they wanted at the cost of their family/descendants becoming tieflings. In the latter case this could be an effect that takes generations to manifest as the magic works its way through the original cultists' bloodlines.
Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes is meant to contain the tiefling variants and so may have more information on how tieflings came to be.
A bit unrelated tiefling question: Humans aren't the only race who can procreate with demons and have part-fiendish offspring with them. So, elven and dwarven and halfling tieflings have to be thing, right? But if one of their parents was an elf and the other a tiefling with elven heritage or whatever ... it doesn't make sense for me that they would have a human lifespan plus some extra decades. It also doesn't make sense for me that they would suddenly look like humans plus horns and hooves and a tail. I mean, yeah, they're tieflings, but they have elven or dwarven or halfling lineage, and that would inform their lifespan and appearance as well, right?
That table only talks about humans, and of tieflings as offspring of fiends and humans, but we know humans aren't the only ones who can have planetouched children. Else Fey'ri and Tanarukk wouldn't be a thing.
Same thing could be said for any half-race.
Why couldn't an half-orc be the (wanted or otherwise) offspring of an elf and an orc, or an elf and another half-orc, or an orc and a dwarf, or a dwarf and another half-orc... same goes for half-elves, but you got the idea, I think.
The thing is, I believe, that we would have 200 pages of just races variants if WotC decided to cover all possible half-breeds, so they decided to go for the race that has the highest chance of producing this kind of offspring, if anything for the fact that in most settings humans are the most numerous race, and the fact that they are an "average" race. Also, as much as the physics of half-breeding are definitely possible with any number of races, the actual survival of said offspring might not be as high as with humans, as it seems they have also been considered somewhat universal race that produces "functional" half-breeds.
I am with you in saying that other half-races combinations are possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath to see anything official being put in a supplement any time soon (or ever). That is the beauty of being able to create your own races (here in DDB or anywhere else for that matter) to fit your desires and setting :)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Which is exactly why I created some tiefling race variants/subraces. I was curious about the lore behind it though. Right now I'm going with "lifespan that of parent race/s, plus +/- 10 % bc of fiendish heritage", plus some racial traits from elves/dwarves/etc.
Which is exactly why I created some tiefling race variants/subraces. I was curious about the lore behind it though. Right now I'm going with "lifespan that of parent race/s, plus +/- 10 % bc of fiendish heritage", plus some racial traits from elves/dwarves/etc.
You are more than welcome to send links my way, should you have made these here in DDB :P
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
My elven and dwarven tiefling variants are just going through moderation. If they are approved, you can find them as "Dwarven Tiefling" and "Elven Tiefling" respectively.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I have a doubt regarding Tieflings.
Inside "Xanathar's guide to everything" there is a table to calculate Tiefling ancestry, it goes as follows:
- Two humans have an offspring who is touched by the infernal plane because of something the human's ancestry did.
- A human and a Tiefling have a baby and it turns out to be another Tiefling.
- A tiefling and a human... same
- A human and a Devil
- A devil and a human
Does this mean that a couple made of two Tieflings can't have baby Tieflings? This would mean that the image of a "Tiefling guetto" in the city, caused by people in communities pushing them there out of mistrust... wouldn't have children in the streets who have pure Tiefling ancestry.
Or does it mean that the regular course is two Tieflings having Tiefling babies and you only roll on the table if you want it to be otherwise? I assume it could be a roll as follows:
01 - 70 Both Parents Tiefling
71- 100 Roll on the Table
It seems like either an erroneous omission, or an unwritten assumption that Tieflings cannot reproduce with each other. I suspect the former. I'd assume they meant for you to use the tables only when deviating from the norm, but then Half-Orc and Half-Elf both have "both parents were half-*" in their tables.
Don't worry, though, you don't have to use those tables if you don't want to, and you can modify them as you wish; they're only there to help you flesh out the character's backstory. =)
The writers probably just focused on mixed cases, rather than same-race couples, just to allay the half-elf, half-orc situation. Any humanoid plus a tiefling will always result in a tiefling. Elf, dwarf, halfling, human, gnome, orc, etc.
Though, there is an error with that chart in the OP - a humanoid and a devil having a baby would not result in a tiefling - it would result in a Cambion.
I am pretty sure you are right about the Cambion parentage, despite what the table says, as follows:
Both parents were humans, their infernal heritage dormant until you came along.
One parent was a tiefling and the other was a human.
One parent was a tiefling and the other was a devil.
One parent was a human and the other was a devil.
I'm just wondering where these dormant genes are coming from. The child of a humanoid and a tiefling is always going to be a tiefling; the infernal traits are dominant, never receessive, always showing up, thanks to Asmodeus' curse.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
looking at the other charts for comparison, they each have a 4 step build.... so it may not be that Tieflings can't have children together, it could just be that the authors where maintaining the 4 step aspect of the chart.
Setting wise, it is also very possible that it is unusual for multiple tieflings to be in a single place. This would result in the possibility of two tieflings having a child together being a very rare situation. Given that their description states that they are also inclined towards distrusting other tieflings, I can easily see why they may gravitate more towards humans for romance, as the degree of trust that is necessary is not present.
Fierna is the best Duchess of Hell
Historically speaking, cambion is the d&d name of a half-fiend, which had different traits than tieflings. Including being considered an Outsider/Fiend. The MM doesn't go into detail, but there is plenty of existing lore - lore that 5e specifically carries forwards - to support it. Sometimes, half-fiends had different names, or abilities, like the alu-fiend, but they all still were different categories from tieflings.
And I'm aware of the other lineages, but look at the chart. It says, right above, that the child of a tielfling is a tiefling, not a humanoid with recessive fiend traits. The Xanathar book contradicts itself. Plus, if we talk FR, those lineages have just three or four generations to manifest, about a century, one of which is a half-fiend. Not a lot of time to go dormant, even if you assume that it can go dormant over a long time. Especially for something that takes up half a roll options, suggesting it's common.
Forgotten Realms wise, it is still a 'new' thing to have the child of the tiefling always be a tiefling. As they are rolling old lore forward with 5e, you must take into account that way back in 2nd edition when Planescape was introduced a tiefling's appearance was more randomized and that the tiefling quality could skip a few generations. With the lore rolled forward this means that there are still tieflings within the FR that have heritage from the other lower planes as well.... Gehenna, Hades, Carceri, and the Abyss all have denizens that could sire a lineage of tieflings.
Fierna is the best Duchess of Hell
I like drawing upon old lore too, but I take it with a grain of salt until it's published in a 5e book. To quote Chris Perkins: "When it comes to D&D lore, we embrace things we like and discard things we don't. I can't unwrite something, but I can ignore it." Case in point, it looks Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes is going to retcon Shadar-Kai to be elves instead of humans.
The infernal heritage doesn't have to be from a tiefling though. The character in question could be the first tiefling in family tree.
Neither the PH nor Xanathar's Guide assume you're playing in FR though. Heck, the Player's Handbook implies a much longer time span than 3 or 4 generations:
D&D is full of weird folkloric elements. I don't think it's outrageous to think a human ancestor made a stupid pact with an archdevil that resulted in a tiefling being born into the family several generations later. That sounds par for the course. After all, yuan-ti have rituals to turn humans into yuan-ti and lesser yuan-ti into more snake-like yuan-ti.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
A bit unrelated tiefling question: Humans aren't the only race who can procreate with demons and have part-fiendish offspring with them. So, elven and dwarven and halfling tieflings have to be thing, right? But if one of their parents was an elf and the other a tiefling with elven heritage or whatever ... it doesn't make sense for me that they would have a human lifespan plus some extra decades. It also doesn't make sense for me that they would suddenly look like humans plus horns and hooves and a tail. I mean, yeah, they're tieflings, but they have elven or dwarven or halfling lineage, and that would inform their lifespan and appearance as well, right?
That table only talks about humans, and of tieflings as offspring of fiends and humans, but we know humans aren't the only ones who can have planetouched children. Else Fey'ri and Tanarukk wouldn't be a thing.
Also, as much as the physics of half-breeding are definitely possible with any number of races, the actual survival of said offspring might not be as high as with humans, as it seems they have also been considered somewhat universal race that produces "functional" half-breeds.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Which is exactly why I created some tiefling race variants/subraces. I was curious about the lore behind it though. Right now I'm going with "lifespan that of parent race/s, plus +/- 10 % bc of fiendish heritage", plus some racial traits from elves/dwarves/etc.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
My elven and dwarven tiefling variants are just going through moderation. If they are approved, you can find them as "Dwarven Tiefling" and "Elven Tiefling" respectively.