I have never been so excited for any D&D related. I ran a homebrew conversion I found, but it was really clunky. Now, how do I get my party to fight Tiamat in space, in stead of on Toril?
I loved Spelljammer. Everything about it was great. The ships weren’t just generic vessels, they were often reflective of the cultures they came from. Elves for example had a variety of ships but they had a huge capital ship that was specially grown from plants and continued to grow as they were still alive. Plus; they could carry small one person craft that looked like butterflies (but armed) that would ride on the outside of the ship and could just take off so they were essentially eleven aircraft carriers. Mind Flayers had ships that looked like Kraken that had bonuses to ramming other ships because of two “tentacles” the poked out in front.
Traveling was fun too because there were certain rules that in my opinion added to the game. For example, each ship would have a bubble of air to breathe, they after time would get stale and negatively affect the crew. The ship could recharge by dipping into a planet’s atmosphere if it was breathable, so your crew would take that into account for planning. Plus it could add to the campaign of you had to fight off enemy around the planet or other issues.
In Spelljammer the various Prime Material worlds all existed in the same universe so you could travel from Faerun to Oerth to Krynn.
That's the Wizards I know though. That's the predatory marketing I'm used to.
Yeah, that's shady. 192 pages of content is easily one book. Printing right now has already has massive issues and delays, so we're gonna potentially shoot ourselves int he foot by complicating the problem>
If you read the announcement, it is pretty clear why they split the set up into three books. The first is the setting introduction - something that can introduce your players to the rather weird Spelljammer setting. This is something a player could read before a campaign to understand the basic details about the world that their character might already know. The second is a monster manual and the third is an adventure. Both of those a DM might not want their player characters to read in advance, lest they metagame. And keeping the monster manual and the adventure separate is a bit easier on the DM.
Ccompare to how they did Icewind, which was a terrible book. Icewind had elements of a campaign setting book, explaining the ten towns, some monsters scattered about, and all of those were embedded in thr adventure. If you wanted to know the basics of the setting, you couldn’t really garner that from the book without also spoiling the story (though, admittedly, having Icewind’s story spoiled so you could realise it was terrible and not worth your time might have been a boon).
Spelljammer is a lot different than Icewind and requires vastly more setup. What didn’t work well for Icewind would be particularly untenable for Spelljammer.
Sure.
It's not being sold as separate books though. It's being sold as a box set, at a price higher than one book. So you're paying a premium on packaging and stitching and forcing a player who wants to have that setting book for their spelljammer game to also buy the bestiary and the adventure. At the higher price. On Beyond its 50, normally 30 for any other sourcebook. Physical MSRP for 70 and only sold as a set right now, other books MSRP for 50.
So you're paying 20 extra dollars regardless of platform for less content because it's being packaged as three separate entities bundled together. It's smart marketing for sure. Wizards is EXCELLENT at this type of stuff.
So, no, it's not a formatting issue. It's not a setting issue. It's a moneygrab.
Ahhh...it'll be super interesting to see how this one upsets the applecart and pisses off all the purists.
I think what's going to turn most people off is the unrestrained use of pastels, and the emphasis on friendship.
Makes me wonder if the entire cosmos is actually a pocket dimension locked inside a neonatal nursery...
If any setting in D&D should be colorful, it's Spelljammer. You're sailing ships through outerspace while shooting guns at purple squidmen that want to eat your brains. And even though it's not going to be present in 5e, the Phlogiston is perhaps the most colorful thing in the history of D&D, and it used to be a pretty big part of the setting.
This setting is silly, colorful, and always has been.
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Does anyone fancy stretching their literary muscles and explaining a bit about Spelljammer? What it's about and what kind of tone it has?
I can't speak from personal experience, but I've heard numerous stories from people who have. In short? Spelljammer is a product of The Nineties (note caps) during an era in which D&D was not as Srs Bsns as many people like to paint it as and when Wizards was a younger, less profitable company more willing to experiment.
A few corrections here, Yurei. You got most of this correct, but a few major parts wrong.
First off, Wizards of the Coast did not make Spelljammer. In fact, Wizards of the Coast did not even exist when Spelljammer first came out (1989), as they were founded in 1990. TSR made Spelljammer. TSR wasn't bought by Wizards of the Coast until 1997, 8 years after Spelljammer's debut.
Second, it wasn't created when the company was younger and more willing to experiment. TSR was more willing to experiment in the 90s because they were slowly running out of money and wanted to find something that could keep their company afloat. That's a major reason why the 80s-90s era of D&D had some of its best settings (Spelljammer, Planescape, Dark Sun).
Third, the reason that Wizards of the Coast now owns D&D is because Magic: the Gathering was so successful and TSR was going bankrupt at the time. This is actually a major reason why a lot of older players complain about the newer versions of classic settings. Because TSR originally made most of them and WotC is just updating them, leading a lot of older players to believe that WotC is incapable of faithfully updating/converting a classic setting to the current ruleset. I personally don't agree with this point of view, but knowing this helps you understand a major reason why "grognards" complain about modern conversions of classic settings so much.
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Ahhh...it'll be super interesting to see how this one upsets the applecart and pisses off all the purists.
I think what's going to turn most people off is the unrestrained use of pastels, and the emphasis on friendship.
Makes me wonder if the entire cosmos is actually a pocket dimension locked inside a neonatal nursery...
If any setting in D&D should be colorful, it's Spelljammer. You're sailing ships through outerspace while shooting guns at purple squidmen that want to eat your brains. And even though it's not going to be present in 5e, the Phlogiston is perhaps the most colorful thing in the history of D&D, and it used to be a pretty big part of the setting.
This setting is silly, colorful, and always has been.
Colorful, yes. Wild, absolutely. Free and fun? You bet!
The thing presented in the release video came off to me like a Saturday morning cartoon aimed at my 7-year-old grandkid. Compared to my old Spelljammer books, it looks like an explosion at the cotton candy factory.
Spelljammer has always felt like a Saturday morning cartoon. Just look at some of its main races and monsters. Any setting that has Giant Space Hamsters (and Miniature Giant Space Hamsters, which are totally different from normal hamsters), mind-controlling cannibal Eel-Spiders, and steampunk gnome spaceships will automatically feel like a "Saturday morning cartoon aimed at kids". Leaning into that is a good thing for D&D's wackiest setting.
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Ahhh...it'll be super interesting to see how this one upsets the applecart and pisses off all the purists.
I think what's going to turn most people off is the unrestrained use of pastels, and the emphasis on friendship.
Makes me wonder if the entire cosmos is actually a pocket dimension locked inside a neonatal nursery...
If any setting in D&D should be colorful, it's Spelljammer. You're sailing ships through outerspace while shooting guns at purple squidmen that want to eat your brains. And even though it's not going to be present in 5e, the Phlogiston is perhaps the most colorful thing in the history of D&D, and it used to be a pretty big part of the setting.
This setting is silly, colorful, and always has been.
Colorful, yes. Wild, absolutely. Free and fun? You bet!
The thing presented in the release video came off to me like a Saturday morning cartoon aimed at my 7-year-old grandkid. Compared to my old Spelljammer books, it looks like an explosion at the cotton candy factory.
Spelljammer has always felt like a Saturday morning cartoon. Just look at some of its main races and monsters. Any setting that has Giant Space Hamsters (and Miniature Giant Space Hamsters, which are totally different from normal hamsters), mind-controlling cannibal Eel-Spiders, and steampunk gnome spaceships will automatically feel like a "Saturday morning cartoon aimed at kids". Leaning into that is a good thing for D&D's wackiest setting.
Vintage Spelljammer was wild and crazy, for sure. But it had a bit of an edge to it.
This just feels fluffy for no reason. I'm gonna give it a chance, obviously. I can always rough it up a bit at my table, anyway, so I'm not hating.
I just hope they don't sacrifice the feel of the setting in the interest of TOO much mainstreaming.
It's going to be pirate ships in space hunting for treasure. There might be some odds and ends that are dark, but I doubt sincerely the level 5-8, which would be the shortest officially published adventure to date beyond the starter set will deal with anything more than a fantasy romp in space.
That's the Wizards I know though. That's the predatory marketing I'm used to.
Yeah, that's shady. 192 pages of content is easily one book. Printing right now has already has massive issues and delays, so we're gonna potentially shoot ourselves int he foot by complicating the problem>
If you read the announcement, it is pretty clear why they split the set up into three books. The first is the setting introduction - something that can introduce your players to the rather weird Spelljammer setting. This is something a player could read before a campaign to understand the basic details about the world that their character might already know. The second is a monster manual and the third is an adventure. Both of those a DM might not want their player characters to read in advance, lest they metagame. And keeping the monster manual and the adventure separate is a bit easier on the DM.
Ccompare to how they did Icewind, which was a terrible book. Icewind had elements of a campaign setting book, explaining the ten towns, some monsters scattered about, and all of those were embedded in thr adventure. If you wanted to know the basics of the setting, you couldn’t really garner that from the book without also spoiling the story (though, admittedly, having Icewind’s story spoiled so you could realise it was terrible and not worth your time might have been a boon).
Spelljammer is a lot different than Icewind and requires vastly more setup. What didn’t work well for Icewind would be particularly untenable for Spelljammer.
Sure.
It's not being sold as separate books though. It's being sold as a box set, at a price higher than one book. So you're paying a premium on packaging and stitching and forcing a player who wants to have that setting book for their spelljammer game to also buy the bestiary and the adventure. At the higher price. On Beyond its 50, normally 30 for any other sourcebook. Physical MSRP for 70 and only sold as a set right now, other books MSRP for 50.
So you're paying 20 extra dollars regardless of platform for less content because it's being packaged as three separate entities bundled together. It's smart marketing for sure. Wizards is EXCELLENT at this type of stuff.
So, no, it's not a formatting issue. It's not a setting issue. It's a moneygrab.
I think you are ignoring the reality of how people buy books - most people are going to buy a copy for the entire campaign and pass it about as needed. This gives the DM a copy of the “pass about” book they can let their players read without also handing their players the monsters and story that could spoil the plot/allow players to better metagame.
It makes sense for them to experiment with this type of more DM-friendly type of product since DMs tend to be the ones purchasing the books for their campaigns. We’ll see if this becomes the norm for new settings or if it remains a “we needed to try something different because Spelljammer is so different” kind of deal. Ultimately yes, it is more expensive, but there is sufficient justification for Wizards to try something new with this release.
But, hey, I suppose it wouldn’t be a Wizards of the Coast product without folks ignoring the awesome new product, delivered in a possibly beneficial way, to instead focus on bashing Wizards as a company.
This announcement was also awesome, especially since they indicated it will be a monthly thing. Ten-ish new monsters per month for free? Outstanding. Seems like a great place for Wizards to release some fun and strange monsters that wouldn’t fit well into other settings.
Digging out my old 2e Spelljammer books from deep storage. The memories…may update some of this stuff to 5e, especially the spells and weapons.
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GM of The Bonus Role - We are playing a 5E game set in my homebrew world of Audra check us out Sunday's at 10 AM CST and follow us at the following social media links. https://www.twitch.tv/thebonusrole @BonusRole
I watched the DnD Direct video and they mentioned The Monster's Compendium if you have a DnDDirect account or a DnDBeyond account however they mentioned a free spelljammer adventure if you had a DnDDirect account. (Did anyone catch whether the free spelljammer adventure requires the DnDDirect account specifically (IE DnDBeyond doesn't count)?
So, I’m confused. What’s up with the Astral Plane? The original Spelljammer was set in the Prime Material Plane(s)… literally in space… like leave earth (or wherever) and fly to the moon. The Spelljammer ships carried their own “bubble” of oxygen and gravity with them. You didn’t get into Wildspace by planeshifting. Was this a 3e thing or is this new?
I, for one, am just glad we're finally getting a new kind of elf. If there's a hole that needed to be plugged, it's that there's not enough different elves. Don't get me wrong, I'm actually excited for pretty much everything they announced, just annoyed by all the damn elves running around. Seems like they must reproduce like rabbits for there to be all these distinct versions.
I do think the new token and terrain sets seem pretty cool. At $65 for each one on Amazon, its actually well-priced as that kind of thing goes, and I'd assume if they do well, they'd print more/different kinds of the sticker thingies.
I, for one, am just glad we're finally getting a new kind of elf. If there's a hole that needed to be plugged, it's that there's not enough different elves. Don't get me wrong, I'm actually excited for pretty much everything they announced, just annoyed by all the damn elves running around. Seems like they must reproduce like rabbits for there to be all these distinct versions.
Especially since the Githyanki basically already filled the role of "Astral Plane Elves", so making a whole new subrace for Astral Elves seems a bit redundant to me.
I get that the Elven Imperial Navy is like the Space British Navy and the Githyanki are like Space Pirates/Vikings, but there really are too many elves in D&D.
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Though not stated on the announcement page, they did say in the twitch stream that the new races were in the books.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I imagine fandom creating mash-ups of their favorite sci-fi/space opera franchises (movies, videogames...).
I miss some species and creatures, but I understand not everything can be added to the first books.
If WotC team plays well their cards, Spelljammer could become a serious rival for Star Trek and Star Wars.
I have never been so excited for any D&D related. I ran a homebrew conversion I found, but it was really clunky. Now, how do I get my party to fight Tiamat in space, in stead of on Toril?
I loved Spelljammer. Everything about it was great. The ships weren’t just generic vessels, they were often reflective of the cultures they came from. Elves for example had a variety of ships but they had a huge capital ship that was specially grown from plants and continued to grow as they were still alive. Plus; they could carry small one person craft that looked like butterflies (but armed) that would ride on the outside of the ship and could just take off so they were essentially eleven aircraft carriers. Mind Flayers had ships that looked like Kraken that had bonuses to ramming other ships because of two “tentacles” the poked out in front.
Traveling was fun too because there were certain rules that in my opinion added to the game. For example, each ship would have a bubble of air to breathe, they after time would get stale and negatively affect the crew. The ship could recharge by dipping into a planet’s atmosphere if it was breathable, so your crew would take that into account for planning. Plus it could add to the campaign of you had to fight off enemy around the planet or other issues.
In Spelljammer the various Prime Material worlds all existed in the same universe so you could travel from Faerun to Oerth to Krynn.
I’m really looking forward to this
Sure.
It's not being sold as separate books though. It's being sold as a box set, at a price higher than one book. So you're paying a premium on packaging and stitching and forcing a player who wants to have that setting book for their spelljammer game to also buy the bestiary and the adventure. At the higher price. On Beyond its 50, normally 30 for any other sourcebook. Physical MSRP for 70 and only sold as a set right now, other books MSRP for 50.
So you're paying 20 extra dollars regardless of platform for less content because it's being packaged as three separate entities bundled together. It's smart marketing for sure. Wizards is EXCELLENT at this type of stuff.
So, no, it's not a formatting issue. It's not a setting issue. It's a moneygrab.
Spelljammer and Dragonlance. Big question is if the box set comes with DDB codes...
If any setting in D&D should be colorful, it's Spelljammer. You're sailing ships through outerspace while shooting guns at purple squidmen that want to eat your brains. And even though it's not going to be present in 5e, the Phlogiston is perhaps the most colorful thing in the history of D&D, and it used to be a pretty big part of the setting.
This setting is silly, colorful, and always has been.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
A few corrections here, Yurei. You got most of this correct, but a few major parts wrong.
First off, Wizards of the Coast did not make Spelljammer. In fact, Wizards of the Coast did not even exist when Spelljammer first came out (1989), as they were founded in 1990. TSR made Spelljammer. TSR wasn't bought by Wizards of the Coast until 1997, 8 years after Spelljammer's debut.
Second, it wasn't created when the company was younger and more willing to experiment. TSR was more willing to experiment in the 90s because they were slowly running out of money and wanted to find something that could keep their company afloat. That's a major reason why the 80s-90s era of D&D had some of its best settings (Spelljammer, Planescape, Dark Sun).
Third, the reason that Wizards of the Coast now owns D&D is because Magic: the Gathering was so successful and TSR was going bankrupt at the time. This is actually a major reason why a lot of older players complain about the newer versions of classic settings. Because TSR originally made most of them and WotC is just updating them, leading a lot of older players to believe that WotC is incapable of faithfully updating/converting a classic setting to the current ruleset. I personally don't agree with this point of view, but knowing this helps you understand a major reason why "grognards" complain about modern conversions of classic settings so much.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Spelljammer has always felt like a Saturday morning cartoon. Just look at some of its main races and monsters. Any setting that has Giant Space Hamsters (and Miniature Giant Space Hamsters, which are totally different from normal hamsters), mind-controlling cannibal Eel-Spiders, and steampunk gnome spaceships will automatically feel like a "Saturday morning cartoon aimed at kids". Leaning into that is a good thing for D&D's wackiest setting.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
There's also a separate monster compendium released for free in case anyone hasn't seen it yet: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/mcv1/spelljammer-creatures
Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but there is now a free monstrous compendium of 10 Spelljammer creatures in the sourcebook section
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/mcv1/spelljammer-creatures
Edit: Dang, Mezzurah beat me to it by 1 whole minute.
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It's going to be pirate ships in space hunting for treasure. There might be some odds and ends that are dark, but I doubt sincerely the level 5-8, which would be the shortest officially published adventure to date beyond the starter set will deal with anything more than a fantasy romp in space.
Jinx.😁
I think you are ignoring the reality of how people buy books - most people are going to buy a copy for the entire campaign and pass it about as needed. This gives the DM a copy of the “pass about” book they can let their players read without also handing their players the monsters and story that could spoil the plot/allow players to better metagame.
It makes sense for them to experiment with this type of more DM-friendly type of product since DMs tend to be the ones purchasing the books for their campaigns. We’ll see if this becomes the norm for new settings or if it remains a “we needed to try something different because Spelljammer is so different” kind of deal. Ultimately yes, it is more expensive, but there is sufficient justification for Wizards to try something new with this release.
But, hey, I suppose it wouldn’t be a Wizards of the Coast product without folks ignoring the awesome new product, delivered in a possibly beneficial way, to instead focus on bashing Wizards as a company.
This announcement was also awesome, especially since they indicated it will be a monthly thing. Ten-ish new monsters per month for free? Outstanding. Seems like a great place for Wizards to release some fun and strange monsters that wouldn’t fit well into other settings.
Digging out my old 2e Spelljammer books from deep storage. The memories…may update some of this stuff to 5e, especially the spells and weapons.
GM of The Bonus Role - We are playing a 5E game set in my homebrew world of Audra check us out Sunday's at 10 AM CST and follow us at the following social media links.
https://www.twitch.tv/thebonusrole
@BonusRole
I watched the DnD Direct video and they mentioned The Monster's Compendium if you have a DnDDirect account or a DnDBeyond account however they mentioned a free spelljammer adventure if you had a DnDDirect account. (Did anyone catch whether the free spelljammer adventure requires the DnDDirect account specifically (IE DnDBeyond doesn't count)?
So, I’m confused. What’s up with the Astral Plane? The original Spelljammer was set in the Prime Material Plane(s)… literally in space… like leave earth (or wherever) and fly to the moon. The Spelljammer ships carried their own “bubble” of oxygen and gravity with them. You didn’t get into Wildspace by planeshifting. Was this a 3e thing or is this new?
I, for one, am just glad we're finally getting a new kind of elf. If there's a hole that needed to be plugged, it's that there's not enough different elves. Don't get me wrong, I'm actually excited for pretty much everything they announced, just annoyed by all the damn elves running around. Seems like they must reproduce like rabbits for there to be all these distinct versions.
I do think the new token and terrain sets seem pretty cool. At $65 for each one on Amazon, its actually well-priced as that kind of thing goes, and I'd assume if they do well, they'd print more/different kinds of the sticker thingies.
Especially since the Githyanki basically already filled the role of "Astral Plane Elves", so making a whole new subrace for Astral Elves seems a bit redundant to me.
I get that the Elven Imperial Navy is like the Space British Navy and the Githyanki are like Space Pirates/Vikings, but there really are too many elves in D&D.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms