There shouldn't be half-anythings. Different species shouldn't be able to breed together. You're a human, elf, orc, dwarf, or whatever you want...but not half.
If you just don't like half-x races, that's cool. But there is a misconception here.
Different species can breed. Or rather, it's wrong to say that different species can't. Our ancestors interbred with Neanderthals and now we have Neanderthal DNA. It's a simplification taught at schools that species are defined as populations that can breed within themselves but not with each other. It's taught to help kids understand a little better - a bit like they're taught that electrons orbit nuclei like planets orbit the sun. Unfortunately, reality is a lot more fuzzy than that.
As I said, if you don't like the halfbreeds, that's fine, but I just wanted to clarify that aspect about what a species is.
Very true. However, I see humans, elves, dwarves, etc. as too far away genetically than Neanderthals and our ancestors. Kind of how different species of dogs can breed together, but they can't breed with a cat. That is how I personally see it.
There shouldn't be half-anythings. Different species shouldn't be able to breed together. You're a human, elf, orc, dwarf, or whatever you want...but not half.
Elrond Half-Elven, Lord of Rivendell would like to have a word with you.
Good thing my games don't take place in Middle Earth.
I just picked up Monster's of the Multiverse, and the Earth Genasi got hosed. Comparting the Earth Genasi to every other magical fantastical races presented in MotM - that is creatures which get both a resistance and cantrip - they are the only ones who don't get a resistance or a 3rd level spell. I almost wonder if this was an editing error, as I notcied one of the creatures lacks a challenge rating, and I am still not through with my initial pass through.
I am likely going to house rule Earth Geansi getting resistance to Thunder and getting Absorb Elements at 3rd level.
Genasi as genie-lites are very boring, I preferred when they were literally made of their elements and more like mini elementals.
The new lore might be lame but mechanically they may be the biggest winners in MMM. They were pretty terrible before.
Earth Genasi is bonkers now. Their features are universally excellent and PWT is just a broken spell
Except they are lacking an always on resistance or spell at 3rd level. And it's a really glaring omission when compared to every other MotM update
Happy to make the trade-off, honestly. Weapon damage is the most common type of damage you'll be taking as a PC, so it would be absurd to give them always-on resistance, but what they do get is still very good. And Pass Without Trace punches far above its weight class as well. Not everything works when you categorize it purely by numbers.
Re: half-races, I support half-everythings. I don't want it personally, but everybody I know wants some half-something that doesn't exist, and they're never the same. Rules for satisfying half-races would be great. Include some blurb about "decide how rare these are in your world or if they're possible at all." That part's easy.
The easy way would be "take the racial features of one and the social features of another," but that's kinda bland. I don't propose to actually solve this, but I'm sure a team of good designers could work it out.
There shouldn't be half-anythings. Different species shouldn't be able to breed together. You're a human, elf, orc, dwarf, or whatever you want...but not half.
If you just don't like half-x races, that's cool. But there is a misconception here.
Different species can breed. Or rather, it's wrong to say that different species can't. Our ancestors interbred with Neanderthals and now we have Neanderthal DNA. It's a simplification taught at schools that species are defined as populations that can breed within themselves but not with each other. It's taught to help kids understand a little better - a bit like they're taught that electrons orbit nuclei like planets orbit the sun. Unfortunately, reality is a lot more fuzzy than that.
As I said, if you don't like the halfbreeds, that's fine, but I just wanted to clarify that aspect about what a species is.
Very true. However, I see humans, elves, dwarves, etc. as too far away genetically than Neanderthals and our ancestors. Kind of how different species of dogs can breed together, but they can't breed with a cat. That is how I personally see it.
I mean, kind of true, but also, this is a fantasy world. Magic exists, and in most D&D worlds, Dwarves, Elves, Orcs, etc were created by the Gods. So the gods could have just magically-genetically engineered them to be able to breed with Humans. "Magic" is the justification for why things like Half-Dragons, Dhampir, and Planetouched exist, so I think the possibility of Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, and Half-Dwarves existing is feasible. Especially for the species that are more closely related to humans (like Halflings).
Sure, things like Lizardfolk, Aarakocra, and Tabaxi probably shouldn't be able to breed with Humans and produce offspring, but the more "human-like" species in the game? I don't see why not.
I'm just not sold on the idea of them having distinct racial mechanics for players that want to be them.
I just picked up Monster's of the Multiverse, and the Earth Genasi got hosed. Comparting the Earth Genasi to every other magical fantastical races presented in MotM - that is creatures which get both a resistance and cantrip - they are the only ones who don't get a resistance or a 3rd level spell. I almost wonder if this was an editing error, as I notcied one of the creatures lacks a challenge rating, and I am still not through with my initial pass through.
I am likely going to house rule Earth Geansi getting resistance to Thunder and getting Absorb Elements at 3rd level.
Earth Elementals are *vulnerable* to Thunder, so that's sus. And Absorb Elements is an L1 spell.
You could give them advantage on saves against Petrification or Petrification and Prone to simulate being a mini-Dao.
There shouldn't be half-anythings. Different species shouldn't be able to breed together. You're a human, elf, orc, dwarf, or whatever you want...but not half.
Real world Mules, Hinney’s, Zonkey’s, Liger’s, Tigon’s, and a whole host of other cross bred species would wholeheartedly disagree with you.
Races should just be cosmetic/determine low impact game elements like height and maximum age.
Personally, I disagree, I wish races and backrounds were more impactful to your character.
I like having lots of different character crreation options and dislike the fact that in 5e, you can practically define a character by simply saying their class.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
Genasi as genie-lites are very boring, I preferred when they were literally made of their elements and more like mini elementals.
The new lore might be lame but mechanically they may be the biggest winners in MMM. They were pretty terrible before.
Earth Genasi is bonkers now. Their features are universally excellent and PWT is just a broken spell
Except they are lacking an always on resistance or spell at 3rd level. And it's a really glaring omission when compared to every other MotM update
Happy to make the trade-off, honestly. Weapon damage is the most common type of damage you'll be taking as a PC, so it would be absurd to give them always-on resistance, but what they do get is still very good. And Pass Without Trace punches far above its weight class as well. Not everything works when you categorize it purely by numbers.
Re: half-races, I support half-everythings. I don't want it personally, but everybody I know wants some half-something that doesn't exist, and they're never the same. Rules for satisfying half-races would be great. Include some blurb about "decide how rare these are in your world or if they're possible at all." That part's easy.
The easy way would be "take the racial features of one and the social features of another," but that's kinda bland. I don't propose to actually solve this, but I'm sure a team of good designers could work it out.
Blade Ward a limited number of times per day using a bonus action (because no one is going to cast it as an action because it's mostly a cantrip for DMs to use) is no where near as powerful as an always on, innate resistance to, say fire (hello fire genasi who have resistance to fire, and get produce flame, burning hands, and flame blade). also it's not innate, it's a magic spell, and cast as such, which means it can be impacted by effects which stop magic.
ignoring difficult terrain no where near compares with getting flight, innate resistance, and a full spell list (hello fairies) or swim speed and full spell list (hello water genasi)
a single casting of pass without trace a long rest is no where near as OP as people think. as a DM who has DMed an earth genasi (and who game them tremor sense rather than darkvision), pass without trace is only "over powered" till about third level or so. bumping it up to a single free casing/prepared spell at 5th level makes it pretty inconsequential and more of a storytelling device for the players and the DM. if anything, it allowed my newbie players to feel like total bad asses and got them super excited and invested in my game. blade wad as a bonus action 2 times per long rest hardly makes up for the loss of pass without trace
from a design standpoint, the earth genasi in MotM are broken. as in they do not fit the design template when compared the other ganasi and most of the other caster races in MotM. taken in comparison - which no one seems to do - they are both underpowered because they lacking in same design elements all the other genasi (and most of the other magical races) get. every other genasi update gets a innate resistance to an elemental magic type, a cantrip at first level, a first level spell at third level, and a second level spell at fifth level. the earth genasi are the only ones who doesn't fit the geansi pattern. and then when i look at the spells the other genasi get, such as having direct damage, area of effect spells (fire and water genasi)'; reusable damage cantrips (air and water); and practical role playing spells (produce flame, create water, levitate) which are must haves for a lot of builds, it become really glaring to me how underpowered the earth geansi are. personally, i think think was an editing mistake. something tagged as a to do, but got forgotten in crunch. the book is not free of these oversights. the sacred statue is missing CR, for example. it's pretty obvious from a DM standpoint if not a player one.
my solution is that i'm going to end up house ruling earth genasi get thunder resistance, and absorb elements at 3rd level. thematically they fit, defensive spells are an easy give, and thunder damage is no where near as common as fire or acid.
Oh, and air genasi can hold their breath indefinitely and water genasi can breath in water... so there is that.
I just picked up Monster's of the Multiverse, and the Earth Genasi got hosed. Comparting the Earth Genasi to every other magical fantastical races presented in MotM - that is creatures which get both a resistance and cantrip - they are the only ones who don't get a resistance or a 3rd level spell. I almost wonder if this was an editing error, as I notcied one of the creatures lacks a challenge rating, and I am still not through with my initial pass through.
I am likely going to house rule Earth Geansi getting resistance to Thunder and getting Absorb Elements at 3rd level.
Earth Elementals are *vulnerable* to Thunder, so that's sus. And Absorb Elements is an L1 spell.
You could give them advantage on saves against Petrification or Petrification and Prone to simulate being a mini-Dao.
air genasi get feather fall at level three, fire genasi get burning hands at level three, and water geansi get create or destory water at level three. those are all first level spells. earth genasi getting absorb elements at level three would be right on par.
as for why thunder damage, it's because it should be an innate magic resistance keeping it to theme of the rest of the genasi having a resistance to a magical type, giving them a unique resistance, and keeping it as simple as possible to keep with the design format.
I just picked up Monster's of the Multiverse, and the Earth Genasi got hosed. Comparting the Earth Genasi to every other magical fantastical races presented in MotM - that is creatures which get both a resistance and cantrip - they are the only ones who don't get a resistance or a 3rd level spell. I almost wonder if this was an editing error, as I notcied one of the creatures lacks a challenge rating, and I am still not through with my initial pass through.
I am likely going to house rule Earth Geansi getting resistance to Thunder and getting Absorb Elements at 3rd level.
Earth Elementals are *vulnerable* to Thunder, so that's sus. And Absorb Elements is an L1 spell.
You could give them advantage on saves against Petrification or Petrification and Prone to simulate being a mini-Dao.
air genasi get feather fall at level three, fire genasi get burning hands at level three, and water geansi get create or destory water at level three. those are all first level spells. earth genasi getting absorb elements at level three would be right on par.
as for why thunder damage, it's because it should be an innate magic resistance keeping it to theme of the rest of the genasi having a resistance to a magical type, giving them a unique resistance, and keeping it as simple as possible to keep with the design format.
I'm not really going to argue with you, even though I disagree. This is the spicy opinions thread, after all.
I would caution against giving them those specific buffs, because it seems like it would feel kinda bad to have to select one elemental resistance for the other genasi when the earth genasi gets to gain resistance to any element they want, whenever. That's just a psychological thing, really -- I get that it might be balanced by limited use but that's not the point.
I can understand why it's so tricky to figure out what to do with Earth Genasi... the obvious resistance to give to Earth Genasi would be resistance to mundane damage, which would be insane. Even if you just made them resistant innately to one of the damage types, whether it's bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing would be wildly overpowered... If you think Fire Genasi seems overpowered since Fire damage is so common, imagine just being resistant to any of the most common damage types. I think that giving them the opportunity to cast Blade Ward in a way that makes the spell actually useful seems like a good compromise... I suppose the alternative would be to go the Pokemon route and give them resistance to a sort of "opposite" element like Lightning.
It is odd that they don't get the full spellcasting suite that the other Genasi get. The Blade Ward thing is really more the Earth Genasi version of resistance, but it's also treated as the Cantrip granted by their innate spellcasting. I think Pass Without Trace is probably the most useful spell granted by the various Genasi, but it is still weird that it's the only leveled spell they get. I feel like the obvious solution is to also give them Earth Tremor as well, and I feel like the only reason they didn't is because all the Genasi spells come from the PHB, but Earth Tremor is a XGtE spell, but there aren't any 1st level PHB spells that are really obviously earth-based
as for why thunder damage, it's because it should be an innate magic resistance keeping it to theme of the rest of the genasi having a resistance to a magical type, giving them a unique resistance, and keeping it as simple as possible to keep with the design format.
Earth should traditionally get acid resistance. As for spells I would give acid splash (if giving them acid resistance) or magic pebble as a cantrip, then Earth Tremor or Tasha’s caustic brew as the lvl 1 spell and either Maximilian’s Earthen Grasp or Acid Arrow as their second lvl spell. Either would work but hermetically earth is associated with acid.
Races should just be cosmetic/determine low impact game elements like height and maximum age.
So every race should just be a reskinned human?
Every race is a reskinned human. The roleplaying differences between them, at least in my experiences (which are not the sum total of all experience, obviously) across a number of tables and countries and continents, other races are, mostly, only different from human statistically. If you were make the differences comestic, you would make the drive to play a race not mechanically based, but based on your desire to explore a culture and psychology different from your own. A person who lives for 500 years and one who lives for 80 years should not behave the same.
Races should just be cosmetic/determine low impact game elements like height and maximum age.
Personally, I disagree, I wish races and backrounds were more impactful to your character.
I like having lots of different character crreation options and dislike the fact that in 5e, you can practically define a character by simply saying their class.
I agree in principle. I'm not against races and, especially, backgrounds being more impactful. I just think the design that exists doesn't work and, especially with this push to rid the game of any biological differences between the D&D "races", I think the new system just pushes it out into this territory that just doesn't work anymore. It doesn't really approximate anything and the result is people are constantly talking about Orcs and Elves and whatnot and all these races that should be buffed, but not all races are being equally buffed. Not all races are getting cool abilities.
More importantly, we are never going to move in the direction we need to that will fix the system, so instead of engaging with the sunk cost falacy, I think we should just scrap races entirely. Only have humans playable. However, that would ruin the fantasy for a lot of people, so instead just make the differences between the races cosmetic. You can be whatever, it just doesn't really affect your mechanical abilities.
Races should just be cosmetic/determine low impact game elements like height and maximum age.
So every race should just be a reskinned human?
Every race is a reskinned human. The roleplaying differences between them, at least in my experiences (which are not the sum total of all experience, obviously) across a number of tables and countries and continents, other races are, mostly, only different from human statistically. If you were make the differences comestic, you would make the drive to play a race not mechanically based, but based on your desire to explore a culture and psychology different from your own. A person who lives for 500 years and one who lives for 80 years should not behave the same.
So the only thing that is different between a Centaur, Harendon, Minotaur, Yuan-ti, and regular human is where the +2/+1 goes? There is no cosmetic differences? I mean horns, 4 legs, bunny ears, forked tongue... Please. That's ridiculous.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Very true. However, I see humans, elves, dwarves, etc. as too far away genetically than Neanderthals and our ancestors. Kind of how different species of dogs can breed together, but they can't breed with a cat. That is how I personally see it.
Good thing my games don't take place in Middle Earth.
I just picked up Monster's of the Multiverse, and the Earth Genasi got hosed. Comparting the Earth Genasi to every other magical fantastical races presented in MotM - that is creatures which get both a resistance and cantrip - they are the only ones who don't get a resistance or a 3rd level spell. I almost wonder if this was an editing error, as I notcied one of the creatures lacks a challenge rating, and I am still not through with my initial pass through.
I am likely going to house rule Earth Geansi getting resistance to Thunder and getting Absorb Elements at 3rd level.
Except the Earth Genasi. They are glaringly missing a resistance and spell at 3rd level.
Except they are lacking an always on resistance or spell at 3rd level. And it's a really glaring omission when compared to every other MotM update
Happy to make the trade-off, honestly. Weapon damage is the most common type of damage you'll be taking as a PC, so it would be absurd to give them always-on resistance, but what they do get is still very good. And Pass Without Trace punches far above its weight class as well. Not everything works when you categorize it purely by numbers.
Re: half-races, I support half-everythings. I don't want it personally, but everybody I know wants some half-something that doesn't exist, and they're never the same. Rules for satisfying half-races would be great. Include some blurb about "decide how rare these are in your world or if they're possible at all." That part's easy.
The easy way would be "take the racial features of one and the social features of another," but that's kinda bland. I don't propose to actually solve this, but I'm sure a team of good designers could work it out.
I mean, kind of true, but also, this is a fantasy world. Magic exists, and in most D&D worlds, Dwarves, Elves, Orcs, etc were created by the Gods. So the gods could have just magically-genetically engineered them to be able to breed with Humans. "Magic" is the justification for why things like Half-Dragons, Dhampir, and Planetouched exist, so I think the possibility of Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, and Half-Dwarves existing is feasible. Especially for the species that are more closely related to humans (like Halflings).
Sure, things like Lizardfolk, Aarakocra, and Tabaxi probably shouldn't be able to breed with Humans and produce offspring, but the more "human-like" species in the game? I don't see why not.
I'm just not sold on the idea of them having distinct racial mechanics for players that want to be them.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Earth Elementals are *vulnerable* to Thunder, so that's sus. And Absorb Elements is an L1 spell.
You could give them advantage on saves against Petrification or Petrification and Prone to simulate being a mini-Dao.
Races should just be cosmetic/determine low impact game elements like height and maximum age.
So every race should just be a reskinned human?
Real world Mules, Hinney’s, Zonkey’s, Liger’s, Tigon’s, and a whole host of other cross bred species would wholeheartedly disagree with you.
Man in a thread all about hot takes this may be the pinnacle.
Personally, I disagree, I wish races and backrounds were more impactful to your character.
I like having lots of different character crreation options and dislike the fact that in 5e, you can practically define a character by simply saying their class.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.my solution is that i'm going to end up house ruling earth genasi get thunder resistance, and absorb elements at 3rd level. thematically they fit, defensive spells are an easy give, and thunder damage is no where near as common as fire or acid.
Oh, and air genasi can hold their breath indefinitely and water genasi can breath in water... so there is that.
air genasi get feather fall at level three, fire genasi get burning hands at level three, and water geansi get create or destory water at level three. those are all first level spells. earth genasi getting absorb elements at level three would be right on par.
as for why thunder damage, it's because it should be an innate magic resistance keeping it to theme of the rest of the genasi having a resistance to a magical type, giving them a unique resistance, and keeping it as simple as possible to keep with the design format.
I'm not really going to argue with you, even though I disagree. This is the spicy opinions thread, after all.
I would caution against giving them those specific buffs, because it seems like it would feel kinda bad to have to select one elemental resistance for the other genasi when the earth genasi gets to gain resistance to any element they want, whenever. That's just a psychological thing, really -- I get that it might be balanced by limited use but that's not the point.
I can understand why it's so tricky to figure out what to do with Earth Genasi... the obvious resistance to give to Earth Genasi would be resistance to mundane damage, which would be insane. Even if you just made them resistant innately to one of the damage types, whether it's bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing would be wildly overpowered... If you think Fire Genasi seems overpowered since Fire damage is so common, imagine just being resistant to any of the most common damage types. I think that giving them the opportunity to cast Blade Ward in a way that makes the spell actually useful seems like a good compromise... I suppose the alternative would be to go the Pokemon route and give them resistance to a sort of "opposite" element like Lightning.
It is odd that they don't get the full spellcasting suite that the other Genasi get. The Blade Ward thing is really more the Earth Genasi version of resistance, but it's also treated as the Cantrip granted by their innate spellcasting. I think Pass Without Trace is probably the most useful spell granted by the various Genasi, but it is still weird that it's the only leveled spell they get. I feel like the obvious solution is to also give them Earth Tremor as well, and I feel like the only reason they didn't is because all the Genasi spells come from the PHB, but Earth Tremor is a XGtE spell, but there aren't any 1st level PHB spells that are really obviously earth-based
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Earth should traditionally get acid resistance. As for spells I would give acid splash (if giving them acid resistance) or magic pebble as a cantrip, then Earth Tremor or Tasha’s caustic brew as the lvl 1 spell and either Maximilian’s Earthen Grasp or Acid Arrow as their second lvl spell. Either would work but hermetically earth is associated with acid.
Every race is a reskinned human. The roleplaying differences between them, at least in my experiences (which are not the sum total of all experience, obviously) across a number of tables and countries and continents, other races are, mostly, only different from human statistically. If you were make the differences comestic, you would make the drive to play a race not mechanically based, but based on your desire to explore a culture and psychology different from your own. A person who lives for 500 years and one who lives for 80 years should not behave the same.
Thank you, I think?
I agree in principle. I'm not against races and, especially, backgrounds being more impactful. I just think the design that exists doesn't work and, especially with this push to rid the game of any biological differences between the D&D "races", I think the new system just pushes it out into this territory that just doesn't work anymore. It doesn't really approximate anything and the result is people are constantly talking about Orcs and Elves and whatnot and all these races that should be buffed, but not all races are being equally buffed. Not all races are getting cool abilities.
More importantly, we are never going to move in the direction we need to that will fix the system, so instead of engaging with the sunk cost falacy, I think we should just scrap races entirely. Only have humans playable. However, that would ruin the fantasy for a lot of people, so instead just make the differences between the races cosmetic. You can be whatever, it just doesn't really affect your mechanical abilities.
It was a neutral statement.
So the only thing that is different between a Centaur, Harendon, Minotaur, Yuan-ti, and regular human is where the +2/+1 goes? There is no cosmetic differences? I mean horns, 4 legs, bunny ears, forked tongue... Please. That's ridiculous.