Yeah, totally. I play with a couple of people who do that. And I do it myself from time to time.
We're all Magic players, I think that has something to do with it. There's a desire to really puzzle out the rules and a feeling that if you don't do it "right," it doesn't "count."
Yes, myself included. It's no fun to not play by the rules. I may exploit a loophole, which only really happens with homebrew settings and rules, but no one may benefit from or be penalized by an incorrect interpretation of the rules. Just look at the Monty Haul problem, it makes the game less fun for both the DM and players. I hate it when I'm playing as a low level character and the DM suddenly gives the party 100,000 gp as a quest reward. And yes, this actually happened to me. I'd rather receive DMG approved loot than face inflation.
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Age: 33 | Sex: Male | Languages: French and English | Roles: DM and Player
Yes, myself included. It's no fun to not play by the rules. I may exploit a loophole, which only really happens with homebrew settings and rules, but no one may benefit from or be penalized by an incorrect interpretation of the rules. Just look at the Monty Haul problem, it makes the game less fun for both the DM and players. I hate it when I'm playing as a low level character and the DM suddenly gives the party 100,000 gp as a quest reward. And yes, this actually happened to me. I'd rather receive DMG approved loot than face inflation.
When I discuss a rule, it's not to power up my character, it's to get to what the best interpretation of that rule. By best, I mean the one that sticks closest to RAW, maximises fun and emulates realism the best. As often or not, those parameters go against the idea of making my character stronger, more powerful etc. Even when I come up with an idea, I often present arguments both for and against, let others refute or add to them, and then try to come to a consensus. That means that I almost always put arguments forward that are to the detriment of my character.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I have on several occasions. I play an Open Hand Monk in our main campaign and our DM doesn't have a lot of experience with monks. Sometimes another player suggests a tactic and I decline, explaining that because I did x I cannot do Y this turn. Often our DM isn't sure, but has come to recognize I will always follow proper rules. I also help another member of our D&D group who is playing an Open Hand sort his ability interactions and options sometimes in another campaign we are playing in. As a few have said, gimping or twisting the rules to our advantage tends, for some, to really suck a lot of the fun out of the game. I am one who loves the limitations the rules impose as much as the freedom and sometimes logic-breaking flexibility they offer.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Have you ever seen a player argue a rule interpretation in a way detrimental to their character?
Yes...I might find ways to powergame and rules lawyer but its no fun if its not in the rules, it feels like cheating if I do something I cant within the rules, and sort of breaks the challenge of making a strong character without cheating or going the typical routes (which theres nothing wrong with, i just prefer atypical routes)
IMHO, the rules or rules you and your group agree to play by are how the game world functions so if they work in the groups favor or do not that is the way the game goes. Note there are times when the players may think things should work one way and something else is going on so it works another way.
A side problem is a person who can argue rule interpretations to fit any situation they want so no matter what it seem as if they are right.
As a Lucky Aarakockra Stryxhaven Student who is a Bladesinger, you betcha. I'm just too hard to stop. Tarrasques quake under my bow... and oozes burble at my blade.
I've done it, to myself, far more as a DM than as a player (granted I think it's because when I'm a player I have limited scope and it's far easier to figure out how to not metagame).
For example, one of my recent sessions I had boss that could have counterspelled a spell (but had high saves in almost all categories) that vastly was going to change the fight. I personally thought I should just do it and get it over with... but than I reasoned the boss, not having actually studied these characters and all and probably believing the characters beneath him to begin with, probably would have saved it for something else due to the fact that he was "superior".
Also, during the same fight I had two "golems" who got a character to half health (they had multiple ways to get him back up, the character, homebrewed, has a subclass ability that no matter what a death save always counts as one so he wasn't in any real danger if he went down... unless the players had a really stupid play that I cant think of) and I wanted to make him go down. Problem was, *laughs*, I had already built rules for how these "golems" would work and while sure only I knew them I don't like breaking rules that I have written for myself (I already go about tweaking things and monsters heavily from the books as is to try to strengthen challenges) so I followed them. After all their main "programming" involved protecting/caring for each other (which is a fundamental factor of the humans they were modeled after, hence why it existed in the golems) so they would always attack whoever hit the other (and than attack the first threat if it was the same person or neither golem had been attacked yet) and so I had to move to a different target.
Still a fun fight was had by myself and the players so it's all good (although sometimes I amuse them when I'm talking out loud to figure out if A would really do this in the heat of battle and things lol.
Just to be clear, I’m asking about players who have _argued_,to make their character weaker, not just players who decided not to exploit a loophole.
I'm actually doing this myself
I'm playing a wizard with Fey Touched. The rules allow you to use spell slots to cast those spells in addition to using them 1/long rest, but I play it as if it's not in my spell book, I can't prepare it. So for me to actually prepare misty step and do a normal cast on it, I'll have to add it to my spell book first, and just having the feat doesn't add it. IOW, I'm treating the feat as an innate ability, not spell knowledge
I'm sure the DM wouldn't care if I did use misty step more than once a day. This is purely a choice I've made on my own, because it makes more sense for the character
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I did it all the time with my drow paladin of the sun god. I picked that race because I wanted the irony of sunlight sensitivity, and I constantly had to push back against my DM to let me roleplay that limitation and roll with disadvantage. When your character concept is grounded in weakness and your DM doesn't really give you chances to be weak, sometimes you have to rules lawyer nerfs for yourself.
I had a game where I was playing an artificer, and I descrbed aiming my cannon as a small light on my shoulder painting a target on the enemy, purely for fluff reasons. The DM said I could have advantage because of the target, which I declined as I had no mechanical reason to gain advantage - I just described the target because I thought it would be cool!
Have you ever seen a player argue a rule interpretation in a way detrimental to their character?
Yeah, totally. I play with a couple of people who do that. And I do it myself from time to time.
We're all Magic players, I think that has something to do with it. There's a desire to really puzzle out the rules and a feeling that if you don't do it "right," it doesn't "count."
Yes, myself included. It's no fun to not play by the rules. I may exploit a loophole, which only really happens with homebrew settings and rules, but no one may benefit from or be penalized by an incorrect interpretation of the rules. Just look at the Monty Haul problem, it makes the game less fun for both the DM and players. I hate it when I'm playing as a low level character and the DM suddenly gives the party 100,000 gp as a quest reward. And yes, this actually happened to me. I'd rather receive DMG approved loot than face inflation.
Age: 33 | Sex: Male | Languages: French and English | Roles: DM and Player
Not a big fan of Rifts, hunh?
I do, routinely.
When I discuss a rule, it's not to power up my character, it's to get to what the best interpretation of that rule. By best, I mean the one that sticks closest to RAW, maximises fun and emulates realism the best. As often or not, those parameters go against the idea of making my character stronger, more powerful etc. Even when I come up with an idea, I often present arguments both for and against, let others refute or add to them, and then try to come to a consensus. That means that I almost always put arguments forward that are to the detriment of my character.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I have on several occasions. I play an Open Hand Monk in our main campaign and our DM doesn't have a lot of experience with monks. Sometimes another player suggests a tactic and I decline, explaining that because I did x I cannot do Y this turn. Often our DM isn't sure, but has come to recognize I will always follow proper rules. I also help another member of our D&D group who is playing an Open Hand sort his ability interactions and options sometimes in another campaign we are playing in. As a few have said, gimping or twisting the rules to our advantage tends, for some, to really suck a lot of the fun out of the game. I am one who loves the limitations the rules impose as much as the freedom and sometimes logic-breaking flexibility they offer.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
I'm not familiar with that game. Can you tell me why I wouldn't like it?
Age: 33 | Sex: Male | Languages: French and English | Roles: DM and Player
Sure. Usually it's more in the form of "I'm not going to exploit this because it's stupid" or "I just assumed it worked like X".
Just to be clear, I’m asking about players who have _argued_,to make their character weaker, not just players who decided not to exploit a loophole.
Yes. My rules lawyering does not exclude myself.
Yes...I might find ways to powergame and rules lawyer but its no fun if its not in the rules, it feels like cheating if I do something I cant within the rules, and sort of breaks the challenge of making a strong character without cheating or going the typical routes (which theres nothing wrong with, i just prefer atypical routes)
I have seen so many weird situations that nothing surprises me. What is the context? Can you elaborate?
1 shot dungeon master
IMHO, the rules or rules you and your group agree to play by are how the game world functions so if they work in the groups favor or do not that is the way the game goes. Note there are times when the players may think things should work one way and something else is going on so it works another way.
A side problem is a person who can argue rule interpretations to fit any situation they want so no matter what it seem as if they are right.
As a Lucky Aarakockra Stryxhaven Student who is a Bladesinger, you betcha. I'm just too hard to stop. Tarrasques quake under my bow... and oozes burble at my blade.
I tell my DM all the time to nerf me.
Sure. I’ve done it myself. Rules is rules after all.
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I've done it, to myself, far more as a DM than as a player (granted I think it's because when I'm a player I have limited scope and it's far easier to figure out how to not metagame).
For example, one of my recent sessions I had boss that could have counterspelled a spell (but had high saves in almost all categories) that vastly was going to change the fight. I personally thought I should just do it and get it over with... but than I reasoned the boss, not having actually studied these characters and all and probably believing the characters beneath him to begin with, probably would have saved it for something else due to the fact that he was "superior".
Also, during the same fight I had two "golems" who got a character to half health (they had multiple ways to get him back up, the character, homebrewed, has a subclass ability that no matter what a death save always counts as one so he wasn't in any real danger if he went down... unless the players had a really stupid play that I cant think of) and I wanted to make him go down. Problem was, *laughs*, I had already built rules for how these "golems" would work and while sure only I knew them I don't like breaking rules that I have written for myself (I already go about tweaking things and monsters heavily from the books as is to try to strengthen challenges) so I followed them. After all their main "programming" involved protecting/caring for each other (which is a fundamental factor of the humans they were modeled after, hence why it existed in the golems) so they would always attack whoever hit the other (and than attack the first threat if it was the same person or neither golem had been attacked yet) and so I had to move to a different target.
Still a fun fight was had by myself and the players so it's all good (although sometimes I amuse them when I'm talking out loud to figure out if A would really do this in the heat of battle and things lol.
I'm actually doing this myself
I'm playing a wizard with Fey Touched. The rules allow you to use spell slots to cast those spells in addition to using them 1/long rest, but I play it as if it's not in my spell book, I can't prepare it. So for me to actually prepare misty step and do a normal cast on it, I'll have to add it to my spell book first, and just having the feat doesn't add it. IOW, I'm treating the feat as an innate ability, not spell knowledge
I'm sure the DM wouldn't care if I did use misty step more than once a day. This is purely a choice I've made on my own, because it makes more sense for the character
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I did it all the time with my drow paladin of the sun god. I picked that race because I wanted the irony of sunlight sensitivity, and I constantly had to push back against my DM to let me roleplay that limitation and roll with disadvantage. When your character concept is grounded in weakness and your DM doesn't really give you chances to be weak, sometimes you have to rules lawyer nerfs for yourself.
I had a game where I was playing an artificer, and I descrbed aiming my cannon as a small light on my shoulder painting a target on the enemy, purely for fluff reasons. The DM said I could have advantage because of the target, which I declined as I had no mechanical reason to gain advantage - I just described the target because I thought it would be cool!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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