I suspect that Michelle Rodriguez's character is a dwarf. I don't know how tall Chris Pine is IRL, but the shots make him look significantly taller than her. In the scene where she tosses the guards around, she looks notably shorter than the guards. And she has an axe.
1.65m v 1.84m according to Google. 20cm is quite a bit, I'm not sure that height difference is artificial.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It'll be interesting to see the pacing, is the setup with the BBEG getting the McGuffin the pre-credits opening sequence, like a Bond movie?
I suspect that Michelle Rodriguez's character is a dwarf. I don't know how tall Chris Pine is IRL, but the shots make him look significantly taller than her. In the scene where she tosses the guards around, she looks notably shorter than the guards. And she has an axe.
I know she is a barbarian, not sure about dwarf, she has no beard. There is a tiefling which is great.
It'll be interesting to see the pacing, is the setup with the BBEG getting the McGuffin the pre-credits opening sequence, like a Bond movie?
I suspect that Michelle Rodriguez's character is a dwarf. I don't know how tall Chris Pine is IRL, but the shots make him look significantly taller than her. In the scene where she tosses the guards around, she looks notably shorter than the guards. And she has an axe.
I know she is a barbarian, not sure about dwarf, she has no beard. There is a tiefling which is great.
Dwarf women in D&D don't have beards. Or rather, I would imagine they have beards at about the same frequency as human women do. It's not like it's impossible, but pretty uncommon.
I don't know if they've *ever* had beards, canonically. I know they didn't in 3.5e. My knowledge doesn't go much farther than that.
An increasingly common Internet rallying cry is that beardless female dwarves is as blasphemous as beardless male dwarves. Frankly, given that dwarven culture is at least forty percent beard maintenance, it makes a great deal of sense. Some of my favorite art for lady dwarves does interesting things with facial hair - my absolute favorite was a female dwarven hunter with legendary sideburns, braided and beaded in a distinctly Norse warrior style. It was amazing and has informed any attempt I've made at creating dwarven PCs of the feminine persuasion since.
Plus, y'know, dismantling the idea that dwarves have to adhere to human standards of beauty. It was the first D&D movie, I believe, where a dwarven character described his ideal lady as a woman broad and sturdy enough to weather the harshness of life and - and this bit is a direct quote that's stuck with me for decades - "a beard you can hang onto!" The almost manic enthusiasm in that dwarf's voice is something I remember to this day, and it's been my personal headcanon for years that female dwarves who go clean-shaven are as ridiculed as their male counterparts - or pitied, if they're injured in a way that prevents beard growth.
Druid may be a Tiefling, but could also be some sort of Fey touched. I was sorta surprised with what seems to be like a low level of non human representation (unlike say most D&D PC parties) but I could see grounding the movie human makes a certain practical and audience engagement sense.
Spoiler tag because a lot of my hunches have been bullseyeing this movie, though it's really just speculation on my end:
Y'all think Hugh Grant is actually a dragon? There's a few walking around Waterdeep IIRC.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Druid may be a Tiefling, but could also be some sort of Fey touched. I was sorta surprised with what seems to be like a low level of non human representation (unlike say most D&D PC parties) but I could see grounding the movie human makes a certain practical and audience engagement sense.
She's confirmed to be a Tiefling. And you can see her tail when she's going through the Dimension Door.
Druid may be a Tiefling, but could also be some sort of Fey touched. I was sorta surprised with what seems to be like a low level of non human representation (unlike say most D&D PC parties) but I could see grounding the movie human makes a certain practical and audience engagement sense.
Spoiler tag because a lot of my hunches have been bullseyeing this movie, though it's really just speculation on my end:
Y'all think Hugh Grant is actually a dragon? There's a few walking around Waterdeep IIRC.
It has already been confirmed by WotC that she is a tiefling.
It has already been confirmed by WotC that she is a tiefling.
Thanks, hopefully the "this looks too fun and isn't edgelord enough crowd" doesn't unite with the revanchist cultural anxiety front who wouldn't surprise me if they start protesting "half devils" in "subversive media" for clicks and fundraising. March releases are supposed to be low key.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Pretty sure the city featured here is Neverwinter, not Waterdeep. Info about this project has been floating around, I think I read that it's Neverwinter. (Update: Looks like it'll actually feature both cities!)
Re: beards, I'm not against it or anything, it's just not the "official lore." (Just like tieflings are allegedly supposed to either be red or be human-colored... And dragonborn don't have tails...) I'm in favor of the Nick Fury approach ("I recognize the council has made a decision, but..."). But Wizards has its brand consistency to maintain or whatever. So it's not gonna happen on the silver screen. (None of the LotR media has shown it visually, either, to my knowledge. It's counterculture! Dangerous to the establishment!)
I can't wait to see how the displacer beast is translated into film.
It has already been confirmed by WotC that she is a tiefling.
Thanks, hopefully the "this looks too fun and isn't edgelord enough crowd" doesn't unite with the revanchist cultural anxiety front who wouldn't surprise me if they start protesting "half devils" in "subversive media" for clicks and fundraising. March releases are supposed to be low key.
I think that crowd is busy prejudging they LotR TV show without having seen it (or without having read the source material judging from most of the comments on it) - I am sure they will come out of the woodworks once they need a new fantasy thing to complain about for no reason!
Jokes (if the depressing reality of widespread intolerance in the fantasy community can really be a joke) aside, I’m sure we’ll get some “purists” who ignore the fact that D&D has always been silly. I, for one, am glad they went with a more silly tone - D&D is at its best when it is a little bit goofy; glad to see they seem to have really committed to that tone.
It has already been confirmed by WotC that she is a tiefling.
Thanks, hopefully the "this looks too fun and isn't edgelord enough crowd" doesn't unite with the revanchist cultural anxiety front who wouldn't surprise me if they start protesting "half devils" in "subversive media" for clicks and fundraising. March releases are supposed to be low key.
I think that crowd is busy prejudging they LotR TV show without having seen it (or without having read the source material judging from most of the comments on it) - I am sure they will come out of the woodworks once they need a new fantasy thing to complain about for no reason!
Jokes (if the depressing reality of widespread intolerance in the fantasy community can really be a joke) aside, I’m sure we’ll get some “purists” who ignore the fact that D&D has always been silly. I, for one, am glad they went with a more silly tone - D&D is at its best when it is a little bit goofy; glad to see they seem to have really committed to that tone.
Actually, if we were to "hub and spoke" this (being facetious not technical) the Amazon LOTR haters, at least the ones hating the casts' "looks" (I think there are legitimate reason to dismay Amazon media ventures, but the loudest protests against Amazon LOTR is empty of them) may be the lynchpin to unite the edgelord haters and the satanic panic revivalist adjacent types. Anyone play Illuminati? I feel like I'm playing a further updated Illuminati as I type this. I get a pleasure and solace out of paranoia and bantering it that's been worked through.
Basically, if the film's successful, I see it with all the products (both official D&D material as well as licensed material) I see D&D taking even further steps into popular culture just in time for the anniversary lead up. Regardless of the film's success or failure, I anticipate a noisy internet where moderators ought to start organizing over their working conditions and self-care resources asap.
Anyone know if the trailer's marked for theaters this weekend? As seen above, I missed the Tiefling's tail. I haven't watched it on a a screen bigger than a standard laptop YouTube window yet, but something this detail riched, the bigger display the better for these eyes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
An increasingly common Internet rallying cry is that beardless female dwarves is as blasphemous as beardless male dwarves. Frankly, given that dwarven culture is at least forty percent beard maintenance, it makes a great deal of sense. Some of my favorite art for lady dwarves does interesting things with facial hair - my absolute favorite was a female dwarven hunter with legendary sideburns, braided and beaded in a distinctly Norse warrior style. It was amazing and has informed any attempt I've made at creating dwarven PCs of the feminine persuasion since.
Plus, y'know, dismantling the idea that dwarves have to adhere to human standards of beauty. It was the first D&D movie, I believe, where a dwarven character described his ideal lady as a woman broad and sturdy enough to weather the harshness of life and - and this bit is a direct quote that's stuck with me for decades - "a beard you can hang onto!" The almost manic enthusiasm in that dwarf's voice is something I remember to this day, and it's been my personal headcanon for years that female dwarves who go clean-shaven are as ridiculed as their male counterparts - or pitied, if they're injured in a way that prevents beard growth.
Or their name is Violet Blackforge.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Druid may be a Tiefling, but could also be some sort of Fey touched. I was sorta surprised with what seems to be like a low level of non human representation (unlike say most D&D PC parties) but I could see grounding the movie human makes a certain practical and audience engagement sense.
She's confirmed to be a Tiefling. And you can see her tail when she's going through the Dimension Door.
Cool! My initial impression was hexblood from Van Richtens, but tiefling does make more sense.
I don't know if they've *ever* had beards, canonically. I know they didn't in 3.5e. My knowledge doesn't go much farther than that.
There's (limited) Tolkien evidence for Dwarven women having beards. For the most part AD&D... just didn't address the issue.
I cannot recall a specific individual female dwarf actually appearing in a scene anywhere in the LotR books, but it's been quite a while since I've read them. That being said it is stated at least once as a given that they have beards. Also worth being said D&D is explicitly not Tolkien's world and the lawyers representing the Tolkien estate were quite insistent on that when they brought legal action against the game using the term "hobbit" and possibly a few other things (again, been quite a while since I've read up on that).
At least in the 3.5 and 5e official sourcebooks that I've read I am unaware of any official written description saying anything about female dwarves having beards nor a single piece of canon artwork in which they do.
R.A. Salvatore describes dwarf women as having beards in his books set in Forgotten Realms.
It has been stated in interviews with WotC that many details in the different incarnations of D&D and it's settings (official setting books and published adventure modules, video games, novels, any given home game, etc) are left up to the writer/director/DM and any given detail in one of those incarnations does not necessarily mean that it should be the same in any others. So the closest thing you're likely to get to an "official ruling" on bearded dwarf ladies is that if you want dwarf women to have beards in your game then they do.
As to Michelle Rodriguez and Chris Pine, according to google there's a seven inch height difference between them. Regardless of the beard issue, I personally really hope she isn't supposed to be a dwarf because she doesn't look nearly stocky enough. This is my personal opinion out of the myriad variations and preferences for imaginary short people but I've always seen the primary defining physical trait of dwarves aside from being shorter than humans being them being built much broader in proportion to their size. Not fat, mind you, but with wider and thicker skeletal and muscular structure. I was quite annoyed upon reading the 5e PHB description that can have them being described as having the same height and weight of fairly heavy humans on the short end of the real height range.
There's your problem. Yes, you're remembering the scene and the line correctly. That entire scene is a great example of why that movie is so terrible by cramming in as many absurdly exaggerated stereotypes of D&D players as socially inept, creepily obsessive, and generally clueless idiots, specifically everything the obnoxious drunk dwarf says and Marlon Wayans' character repeatedly trying to hit on the sexy elf chick and stubbornly failing to acknowledge that she's not interested. Maybe you have fond memories of it but there is nothing culturally, representationally, and definitely not artistically that came from that movie that should be repeated or emulated by anyone. It's terrible in every way and if you don't think so I challenge you to actually try watching it again now.
I don't know if they've *ever* had beards, canonically. I know they didn't in 3.5e. My knowledge doesn't go much farther than that.
There's (limited) Tolkien evidence for Dwarven women having beards. For the most part AD&D... just didn't address the issue.
I cannot recall a specific individual female dwarf actually appearing in a scene anywhere in the LotR books, but it's been quite a while since I've read them. That being said it is stated at least once as a given that they have beards. Also worth being said D&D is explicitly not Tolkien's world and the lawyers representing the Tolkien estate were quite insistent on that when they brought legal action against the game using the term "hobbit" and possibly a few other things (again, been quite a while since I've read up on that).
Just as a point of order, the only time “dwarf women have beards” shows up in LotR is in drafts written by Tolkien, not in any actually finished work. So, while it could be the case, it also is not fully canon.
Also, it was orcs and elves, which D&D gets to use; Ents and Balrogs, which they do not and now go by treant and balor, respectively. They also cannot say halflings have hairy feet.
Not super relevant to the thread itself, I suppose, but still a neat set of facts.
It has already been confirmed by WotC that she is a tiefling.
Thanks, hopefully the "this looks too fun and isn't edgelord enough crowd" doesn't unite with the revanchist cultural anxiety front who wouldn't surprise me if they start protesting "half devils" in "subversive media" for clicks and fundraising. March releases are supposed to be low key.
I think that crowd is busy prejudging they LotR TV show without having seen it (or without having read the source material judging from most of the comments on it) - I am sure they will come out of the woodworks once they need a new fantasy thing to complain about for no reason!
Jokes (if the depressing reality of widespread intolerance in the fantasy community can really be a joke) aside, I’m sure we’ll get some “purists” who ignore the fact that D&D has always been silly. I, for one, am glad they went with a more silly tone - D&D is at its best when it is a little bit goofy; glad to see they seem to have really committed to that tone.
Actually, if we were to "hub and spoke" this (being facetious not technical) the Amazon LOTR haters, at least the ones hating the casts' "looks" (I think there are legitimate reason to dismay Amazon media ventures, but the loudest protests against Amazon LOTR is empty of them) may be the lynchpin to unite the edgelord haters and the satanic panic revivalist adjacent types. Anyone play Illuminati? I feel like I'm playing a further updated Illuminati as I type this. I get a pleasure and solace out of paranoia and bantering it that's been worked through.
Basically, if the film's successful, I see it with all the products (both official D&D material as well as licensed material) I see D&D taking even further steps into popular culture just in time for the anniversary lead up. Regardless of the film's success or failure, I anticipate a noisy internet where moderators ought to start organizing over their working conditions and self-care resources asap.
Anyone know if the trailer's marked for theaters this weekend? As seen above, I missed the Tiefling's tail. I haven't watched it on a a screen bigger than a standard laptop YouTube window yet, but something this detail riched, the bigger display the better for these eyes.
Including an on online one shot played by the actors, with either the directors DMing? Or a famous DND DM, (probably a wizards employee) to show the game off. That will get people playing more then just the movie, Chris pine fans watching him play DND
I read a comment elsewhere from someone who hoped that the film would end with a shot of the actors sat around the table playing DND with the idea that the entire movie was a DND session being played out. Am I the only one who hates that idea lol.
1.65m v 1.84m according to Google. 20cm is quite a bit, I'm not sure that height difference is artificial.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I know she is a barbarian, not sure about dwarf, she has no beard. There is a tiefling which is great.
Dwarf women in D&D don't have beards. Or rather, I would imagine they have beards at about the same frequency as human women do. It's not like it's impossible, but pretty uncommon.
I don't know if they've *ever* had beards, canonically. I know they didn't in 3.5e. My knowledge doesn't go much farther than that.
There's (limited) Tolkien evidence for Dwarven women having beards. For the most part AD&D... just didn't address the issue.
An increasingly common Internet rallying cry is that beardless female dwarves is as blasphemous as beardless male dwarves. Frankly, given that dwarven culture is at least forty percent beard maintenance, it makes a great deal of sense. Some of my favorite art for lady dwarves does interesting things with facial hair - my absolute favorite was a female dwarven hunter with legendary sideburns, braided and beaded in a distinctly Norse warrior style. It was amazing and has informed any attempt I've made at creating dwarven PCs of the feminine persuasion since.
Plus, y'know, dismantling the idea that dwarves have to adhere to human standards of beauty. It was the first D&D movie, I believe, where a dwarven character described his ideal lady as a woman broad and sturdy enough to weather the harshness of life and - and this bit is a direct quote that's stuck with me for decades - "a beard you can hang onto!" The almost manic enthusiasm in that dwarf's voice is something I remember to this day, and it's been my personal headcanon for years that female dwarves who go clean-shaven are as ridiculed as their male counterparts - or pitied, if they're injured in a way that prevents beard growth.
Please do not contact or message me.
Druid may be a Tiefling, but could also be some sort of Fey touched. I was sorta surprised with what seems to be like a low level of non human representation (unlike say most D&D PC parties) but I could see grounding the movie human makes a certain practical and audience engagement sense.
Spoiler tag because a lot of my hunches have been bullseyeing this movie, though it's really just speculation on my end:
Y'all think Hugh Grant is actually a dragon? There's a few walking around Waterdeep IIRC.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
She's confirmed to be a Tiefling. And you can see her tail when she's going through the Dimension Door.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
It has already been confirmed by WotC that she is a tiefling.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Thanks, hopefully the "this looks too fun and isn't edgelord enough crowd" doesn't unite with the revanchist cultural anxiety front who wouldn't surprise me if they start protesting "half devils" in "subversive media" for clicks and fundraising. March releases are supposed to be low key.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Pretty sure the city featured here is Neverwinter, not Waterdeep. Info about this project has been floating around, I think I read that it's Neverwinter. (Update: Looks like it'll actually feature both cities!)
Re: beards, I'm not against it or anything, it's just not the "official lore." (Just like tieflings are allegedly supposed to either be red or be human-colored... And dragonborn don't have tails...) I'm in favor of the Nick Fury approach ("I recognize the council has made a decision, but..."). But Wizards has its brand consistency to maintain or whatever. So it's not gonna happen on the silver screen. (None of the LotR media has shown it visually, either, to my knowledge. It's counterculture! Dangerous to the establishment!)
I can't wait to see how the displacer beast is translated into film.
I think that crowd is busy prejudging they LotR TV show without having seen it (or without having read the source material judging from most of the comments on it) - I am sure they will come out of the woodworks once they need a new fantasy thing to complain about for no reason!
Jokes (if the depressing reality of widespread intolerance in the fantasy community can really be a joke) aside, I’m sure we’ll get some “purists” who ignore the fact that D&D has always been silly. I, for one, am glad they went with a more silly tone - D&D is at its best when it is a little bit goofy; glad to see they seem to have really committed to that tone.
Actually, if we were to "hub and spoke" this (being facetious not technical) the Amazon LOTR haters, at least the ones hating the casts' "looks" (I think there are legitimate reason to dismay Amazon media ventures, but the loudest protests against Amazon LOTR is empty of them) may be the lynchpin to unite the edgelord haters and the satanic panic revivalist adjacent types. Anyone play Illuminati? I feel like I'm playing a further updated Illuminati as I type this. I get a pleasure and solace out of paranoia and bantering it that's been worked through.
Basically, if the film's successful, I see it with all the products (both official D&D material as well as licensed material) I see D&D taking even further steps into popular culture just in time for the anniversary lead up. Regardless of the film's success or failure, I anticipate a noisy internet where moderators ought to start organizing over their working conditions and self-care resources asap.
Anyone know if the trailer's marked for theaters this weekend? As seen above, I missed the Tiefling's tail. I haven't watched it on a a screen bigger than a standard laptop YouTube window yet, but something this detail riched, the bigger display the better for these eyes.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Or their name is Violet Blackforge.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Cool! My initial impression was hexblood from Van Richtens, but tiefling does make more sense.
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep
I cannot recall a specific individual female dwarf actually appearing in a scene anywhere in the LotR books, but it's been quite a while since I've read them. That being said it is stated at least once as a given that they have beards. Also worth being said D&D is explicitly not Tolkien's world and the lawyers representing the Tolkien estate were quite insistent on that when they brought legal action against the game using the term "hobbit" and possibly a few other things (again, been quite a while since I've read up on that).
At least in the 3.5 and 5e official sourcebooks that I've read I am unaware of any official written description saying anything about female dwarves having beards nor a single piece of canon artwork in which they do.
R.A. Salvatore describes dwarf women as having beards in his books set in Forgotten Realms.
It has been stated in interviews with WotC that many details in the different incarnations of D&D and it's settings (official setting books and published adventure modules, video games, novels, any given home game, etc) are left up to the writer/director/DM and any given detail in one of those incarnations does not necessarily mean that it should be the same in any others. So the closest thing you're likely to get to an "official ruling" on bearded dwarf ladies is that if you want dwarf women to have beards in your game then they do.
As to Michelle Rodriguez and Chris Pine, according to google there's a seven inch height difference between them. Regardless of the beard issue, I personally really hope she isn't supposed to be a dwarf because she doesn't look nearly stocky enough. This is my personal opinion out of the myriad variations and preferences for imaginary short people but I've always seen the primary defining physical trait of dwarves aside from being shorter than humans being them being built much broader in proportion to their size. Not fat, mind you, but with wider and thicker skeletal and muscular structure. I was quite annoyed upon reading the 5e PHB description that can have them being described as having the same height and weight of fairly heavy humans on the short end of the real height range.
There's your problem. Yes, you're remembering the scene and the line correctly. That entire scene is a great example of why that movie is so terrible by cramming in as many absurdly exaggerated stereotypes of D&D players as socially inept, creepily obsessive, and generally clueless idiots, specifically everything the obnoxious drunk dwarf says and Marlon Wayans' character repeatedly trying to hit on the sexy elf chick and stubbornly failing to acknowledge that she's not interested. Maybe you have fond memories of it but there is nothing culturally, representationally, and definitely not artistically that came from that movie that should be repeated or emulated by anyone. It's terrible in every way and if you don't think so I challenge you to actually try watching it again now.
I could swear 1e/2e dwarf women had beards, and them losing them was one of the things the people got upset about in 3e.
But then, 1/2 were more or less openly hostile to the idea of women characters in general, so I don’t remember anyone ever playing one.
Just as a point of order, the only time “dwarf women have beards” shows up in LotR is in drafts written by Tolkien, not in any actually finished work. So, while it could be the case, it also is not fully canon.
Also, it was orcs and elves, which D&D gets to use; Ents and Balrogs, which they do not and now go by treant and balor, respectively. They also cannot say halflings have hairy feet.
Not super relevant to the thread itself, I suppose, but still a neat set of facts.
That all sounds familiar now that you mention it. Thanks for the clarifications.
Including an on online one shot played by the actors, with either the directors DMing? Or a famous DND DM, (probably a wizards employee) to show the game off. That will get people playing more then just the movie, Chris pine fans watching him play DND
I read a comment elsewhere from someone who hoped that the film would end with a shot of the actors sat around the table playing DND with the idea that the entire movie was a DND session being played out. Am I the only one who hates that idea lol.