The term d20 Test encompasses the three main d20 rolls of the game: ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. If something in the game affects d20 Tests, it affects all three of those rolls. The DM determines whether a d20 Test is warranted in any given circumstance. To be warranted, a d20 Test must have a target number no less than 5 and no greater than 30
Reading that strictly, if someone with an attack bonus of, say, +12 wants to attack a creature with AC 15, then all they would need to roll is a 3, which is less than 5, in which case a roll is not "warranted" and it's just an automatic hit?
That would seem to be the RAW here now...but is that intentional or just the result of not thinking it through?
I kind of like it myself, I have to admit. It really only comes into play when the PCs are really upper level and if they're fighting lower level goons -- so it would prob feel much more heroic and amazing for a fighter to just wade into a crowd of orcs or goblins or bandits, make three attacks, take action surge and make three more, and just automatically hit six of them!
How often does it come up that you only need to roll a 5 or better to hit?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
How often does it come up that you only need to roll a 5 or better to hit?
Not often, that's for sure -- and so this would only come up in epic-moments for the PCs...but it's still a big departure: for as long as I've been playing the game, if you want to attack someone, you roll those dice! Now, if you're badass enough, you can just assume you wipe the floor with the BBEG's minions(?). Kind of cool, and I sort of like it, but it's a whole new thing.
You're misinterpretting the text. The target number isn't "3", it's 15. 3 is what you need on the d20 to meet that number given your bonus to the roll, but that doesn't stop the target number from being 15. What you're alluding to is more how THAC0 worked, and nobody needs THAC0 back.
From what I can tell, no. I believe the target number isn't what you need on the dice, it's the DC/AC. So the AC is 15, which means its a warranted d20 Test. This does pose a question of creatures with an AC of 4 or lower though.
The rule is in part an attempt to convince DMs to STAAAAAAAAAAHP(!!!!!) rolling for every last god damned little thing, and in part a reminder to DMs that it's okay to narrate failure without asking for a roll. DMs who hear "I get out of bed and get dressed" only to say "roll a Dex check to see if you roll a nat 1, so I can narrate your humiliating pratfall" are jackholes who need to be whacked with a wiffle bat until they knock that disruptive and unhelpful garbage off, and players need to realize that there are some things you don't get to do no matter how high you roll. Just because you can stack Guidance, Bardic Inspiration, Expertise, and a few other spells/class/species features and become theoretically capable of hitting a target number of 50 if all the dice line up doesn't mean you can jump to the moon and kill Bahamut with your pocket dagger. Again: staaaaaaaaaaaahp.
The term d20 Test encompasses the three main d20 rolls of the game: ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. If something in the game affects d20 Tests, it affects all three of those rolls. The DM determines whether a d20 Test is warranted in any given circumstance. To be warranted, a d20 Test must have a target number no less than 5 and no greater than 30
Reading that strictly, if someone with an attack bonus of, say, +12 wants to attack a creature with AC 15, then all they would need to roll is a 3, which is less than 5, in which case a roll is not "warranted" and it's just an automatic hit?
That would seem to be the RAW here now...but is that intentional or just the result of not thinking it through?
No, the target number is still the targets AC. The target number is not what you need to roll after your bonuses.
The term d20 Test encompasses the three main d20 rolls of the game: ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. If something in the game affects d20 Tests, it affects all three of those rolls. The DM determines whether a d20 Test is warranted in any given circumstance. To be warranted, a d20 Test must have a target number no less than 5 and no greater than 30
Reading that strictly, if someone with an attack bonus of, say, +12 wants to attack a creature with AC 15, then all they would need to roll is a 3, which is less than 5, in which case a roll is not "warranted" and it's just an automatic hit?
That would seem to be the RAW here now...but is that intentional or just the result of not thinking it through?
So, find a way to get a 31 AC (probably only temporarily, but still) & no one even gets to roll to hit me?
The term d20 Test encompasses the three main d20 rolls of the game: ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. If something in the game affects d20 Tests, it affects all three of those rolls. The DM determines whether a d20 Test is warranted in any given circumstance. To be warranted, a d20 Test must have a target number no less than 5 and no greater than 30
Reading that strictly, if someone with an attack bonus of, say, +12 wants to attack a creature with AC 15, then all they would need to roll is a 3, which is less than 5, in which case a roll is not "warranted" and it's just an automatic hit?
That would seem to be the RAW here now...but is that intentional or just the result of not thinking it through?
So, find a way to get a 31 AC (probably only temporarily, but still) & no one even gets to roll to hit me?
The term d20 Test encompasses the three main d20 rolls of the game: ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. If something in the game affects d20 Tests, it affects all three of those rolls. The DM determines whether a d20 Test is warranted in any given circumstance. To be warranted, a d20 Test must have a target number no less than 5 and no greater than 30
Reading that strictly, if someone with an attack bonus of, say, +12 wants to attack a creature with AC 15, then all they would need to roll is a 3, which is less than 5, in which case a roll is not "warranted" and it's just an automatic hit?
That would seem to be the RAW here now...but is that intentional or just the result of not thinking it through?
So, find a way to get a 31 AC (probably only temporarily, but still) & no one even gets to roll to hit me?
The term d20 Test encompasses the three main d20 rolls of the game: ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. If something in the game affects d20 Tests, it affects all three of those rolls. The DM determines whether a d20 Test is warranted in any given circumstance. To be warranted, a d20 Test must have a target number no less than 5 and no greater than 30
Reading that strictly, if someone with an attack bonus of, say, +12 wants to attack a creature with AC 15, then all they would need to roll is a 3, which is less than 5, in which case a roll is not "warranted" and it's just an automatic hit?
That would seem to be the RAW here now...but is that intentional or just the result of not thinking it through?
So, find a way to get a 31 AC (probably only temporarily, but still) & no one even gets to roll to hit me?
The term d20 Test encompasses the three main d20 rolls of the game: ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. If something in the game affects d20 Tests, it affects all three of those rolls. The DM determines whether a d20 Test is warranted in any given circumstance. To be warranted, a d20 Test must have a target number no less than 5 and no greater than 30
Reading that strictly, if someone with an attack bonus of, say, +12 wants to attack a creature with AC 15, then all they would need to roll is a 3, which is less than 5, in which case a roll is not "warranted" and it's just an automatic hit?
That would seem to be the RAW here now...but is that intentional or just the result of not thinking it through?
So, find a way to get a 31 AC (probably only temporarily, but still) & no one even gets to roll to hit me?
No, because a 20 will always hit.
What 20? (Assuming I am reading the blurb correctly) If the target number is 0 thru 4 or 31 thru Infinity, there is no roll, and therefore, no possibility of rolling a 20. 0 thru 4, you automatically succeed, 31+ is a auto fail.
The term d20 Test encompasses the three main d20 rolls of the game: ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. If something in the game affects d20 Tests, it affects all three of those rolls. The DM determines whether a d20 Test is warranted in any given circumstance. To be warranted, a d20 Test must have a target number no less than 5 and no greater than 30
Reading that strictly, if someone with an attack bonus of, say, +12 wants to attack a creature with AC 15, then all they would need to roll is a 3, which is less than 5, in which case a roll is not "warranted" and it's just an automatic hit?
That would seem to be the RAW here now...but is that intentional or just the result of not thinking it through?
So, find a way to get a 31 AC (probably only temporarily, but still) & no one even gets to roll to hit me?
No, because a 20 will always hit.
What 20? (Assuming I am reading the blurb correctly) If the target number is 0 thru 4 or 31 thru Infinity, there is no roll, and therefore, no possibility of rolling a 20. 0 thru 4, you automatically succeed, 31+ is a auto fail.
No, if my tweaked out sniper has a +12 to hit on his longbow and you have 31 AC I have to roll a 19, well within the 5 to 30 ruling.
The term d20 Test encompasses the three main d20 rolls of the game: ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. If something in the game affects d20 Tests, it affects all three of those rolls. The DM determines whether a d20 Test is warranted in any given circumstance. To be warranted, a d20 Test must have a target number no less than 5 and no greater than 30
Reading that strictly, if someone with an attack bonus of, say, +12 wants to attack a creature with AC 15, then all they would need to roll is a 3, which is less than 5, in which case a roll is not "warranted" and it's just an automatic hit?
That would seem to be the RAW here now...but is that intentional or just the result of not thinking it through?
So, find a way to get a 31 AC (probably only temporarily, but still) & no one even gets to roll to hit me?
No, because a 20 will always hit.
What 20? (Assuming I am reading the blurb correctly) If the target number is 0 thru 4 or 31 thru Infinity, there is no roll, and therefore, no possibility of rolling a 20. 0 thru 4, you automatically succeed, 31+ is a auto fail.
No, if my tweaked out sniper has a +12 to hit on his longbow and you have 31 AC I have to roll a 19, well within the 5 to 30 ruling.
The target doesn't change based on your + to hit. The target is the enemies AC. So technically with the UA you wouldn't roll but I'm pretty sure that is just an edge case they didn't account for.
The term d20 Test encompasses the three main d20 rolls of the game: ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. If something in the game affects d20 Tests, it affects all three of those rolls. The DM determines whether a d20 Test is warranted in any given circumstance. To be warranted, a d20 Test must have a target number no less than 5 and no greater than 30
Reading that strictly, if someone with an attack bonus of, say, +12 wants to attack a creature with AC 15, then all they would need to roll is a 3, which is less than 5, in which case a roll is not "warranted" and it's just an automatic hit?
That would seem to be the RAW here now...but is that intentional or just the result of not thinking it through?
So, find a way to get a 31 AC (probably only temporarily, but still) & no one even gets to roll to hit me?
No, because a 20 will always hit.
What 20? (Assuming I am reading the blurb correctly) If the target number is 0 thru 4 or 31 thru Infinity, there is no roll, and therefore, no possibility of rolling a 20. 0 thru 4, you automatically succeed, 31+ is a auto fail
.
No, if my tweaked out sniper has a +12 to hit on his longbow and ysou have 31 AC I have to roll a 19, well within the 5 to 30 ruling.
That's not the intention of the rule. It mentions not rolling for 31+, but 21+ is literally impossible for d20s, so it's not talking about the roll of the d20, but the end score (is after bonuses). Therefore, your +12 is irrelevant. You could have +25, it doesn't matter. If the end score target is over 30, you don't roll.
Which I don't like, and I don't think achieves much. I could understand saying that if you only have to roll less than 5 then it's an automatic success - you want to speed up things. But I don't like the AC/DC being the criteria - it depends too much on the character. My L1 Wizard 17Int would never hit 27 (without criticals) but would, in theory, have to roll, while my L20 Wizard 22Int and a +3 arcane focus has a 25% chance of hitting but doesn't get a shot?
I could understand a "if you have to roll below X to fail or above Y to succeed then you don't roll, then you auto succeed or auto fail respectively instead" rule to speed things up, but basing it on the AC/DC instead makes little sense. Instead, I think I'll have the rule that if you need to roll 5+ to succeed, you auto succeed, and just remove the rule that nat20s always succeed. You have to be able to actually hit the AC/DC by yourself to have s shot.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
You have to be able to actually hit the AC/DC by yourself to have s shot.
I think the intention of the rule literally boils down to this. Only making you roll for things if you have a chance to fail or a chance to succeed and they just needed a value for the folks who need guidance on such things. Any good DM isn't calling for checks on things they know their players can't hit, or for things they know they'll definitely succeed on, this just gives a numerical outline.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
In the new UA rules there is this:
Reading that strictly, if someone with an attack bonus of, say, +12 wants to attack a creature with AC 15, then all they would need to roll is a 3, which is less than 5, in which case a roll is not "warranted" and it's just an automatic hit?
That would seem to be the RAW here now...but is that intentional or just the result of not thinking it through?
I like it. Makes combat faster.
You get hit for <x> damage.
You hit the <monster>, roll damage.
I kind of like it myself, I have to admit. It really only comes into play when the PCs are really upper level and if they're fighting lower level goons -- so it would prob feel much more heroic and amazing for a fighter to just wade into a crowd of orcs or goblins or bandits, make three attacks, take action surge and make three more, and just automatically hit six of them!
How often does it come up that you only need to roll a 5 or better to hit?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Not often, that's for sure -- and so this would only come up in epic-moments for the PCs...but it's still a big departure: for as long as I've been playing the game, if you want to attack someone, you roll those dice! Now, if you're badass enough, you can just assume you wipe the floor with the BBEG's minions(?). Kind of cool, and I sort of like it, but it's a whole new thing.
You're misinterpretting the text. The target number isn't "3", it's 15. 3 is what you need on the d20 to meet that number given your bonus to the roll, but that doesn't stop the target number from being 15. What you're alluding to is more how THAC0 worked, and nobody needs THAC0 back.
Please do not contact or message me.
From what I can tell, no. I believe the target number isn't what you need on the dice, it's the DC/AC. So the AC is 15, which means its a warranted d20 Test. This does pose a question of creatures with an AC of 4 or lower though.
What Yurei said.
And you could still always roll a 1, which is still an auto-fail.
The rule is in part an attempt to convince DMs to STAAAAAAAAAAHP(!!!!!) rolling for every last god damned little thing, and in part a reminder to DMs that it's okay to narrate failure without asking for a roll. DMs who hear "I get out of bed and get dressed" only to say "roll a Dex check to see if you roll a nat 1, so I can narrate your humiliating pratfall" are jackholes who need to be whacked with a wiffle bat until they knock that disruptive and unhelpful garbage off, and players need to realize that there are some things you don't get to do no matter how high you roll. Just because you can stack Guidance, Bardic Inspiration, Expertise, and a few other spells/class/species features and become theoretically capable of hitting a target number of 50 if all the dice line up doesn't mean you can jump to the moon and kill Bahamut with your pocket dagger. Again: staaaaaaaaaaaahp.
Please do not contact or message me.
No, the target number is still the targets AC. The target number is not what you need to roll after your bonuses.
So, find a way to get a 31 AC (probably only temporarily, but still) & no one even gets to roll to hit me?
So a tarrasque (AC 25) with some minions who can cast Shield, Shield of Faith, or Haste becomes (literally) unhittable...
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/67197/what-is-the-highest-possible-ac
Maybe if you follow the rules super strict but I don't see anyone ever running it like that
No, because a 20 will always hit.
What 20? (Assuming I am reading the blurb correctly) If the target number is 0 thru 4 or 31 thru Infinity, there is no roll, and therefore, no possibility of rolling a 20. 0 thru 4, you automatically succeed, 31+ is a auto fail.
No, if my tweaked out sniper has a +12 to hit on his longbow and you have 31 AC I have to roll a 19, well within the 5 to 30 ruling.
The target doesn't change based on your + to hit. The target is the enemies AC. So technically with the UA you wouldn't roll but I'm pretty sure that is just an edge case they didn't account for.
That's not the intention of the rule. It mentions not rolling for 31+, but 21+ is literally impossible for d20s, so it's not talking about the roll of the d20, but the end score (is after bonuses). Therefore, your +12 is irrelevant. You could have +25, it doesn't matter. If the end score target is over 30, you don't roll.
Which I don't like, and I don't think achieves much. I could understand saying that if you only have to roll less than 5 then it's an automatic success - you want to speed up things. But I don't like the AC/DC being the criteria - it depends too much on the character. My L1 Wizard 17Int would never hit 27 (without criticals) but would, in theory, have to roll, while my L20 Wizard 22Int and a +3 arcane focus has a 25% chance of hitting but doesn't get a shot?
I could understand a "if you have to roll below X to fail or above Y to succeed then you don't roll, then you auto succeed or auto fail respectively instead" rule to speed things up, but basing it on the AC/DC instead makes little sense. Instead, I think I'll have the rule that if you need to roll 5+ to succeed, you auto succeed, and just remove the rule that nat20s always succeed. You have to be able to actually hit the AC/DC by yourself to have s shot.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I think the intention of the rule literally boils down to this. Only making you roll for things if you have a chance to fail or a chance to succeed and they just needed a value for the folks who need guidance on such things. Any good DM isn't calling for checks on things they know their players can't hit, or for things they know they'll definitely succeed on, this just gives a numerical outline.