Good question. my first thought is actually... raw no. AT has no spell list besides the spells known category(which may or may not be a class list)
I am not sure if it would upset balance or not. I think known spells is fine for easy play. But unknown wizard spells is a little harder but Considering the arcana check I would think it could be a fine hombrew at most tables.
Roscoeivan's correct, RAW no, as AT uses the wizard spell list and spell scrolls state "If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible." Your DM might allow you to still use scrolls, maybe on a case-by-case basis, but they're under no obligation to.
Also, there is no spell 'Detect Secret Doors.' The Dungeon Delver feat gives you advantage when searching for them.
True Seeing does reveal secret doors hidden by magic. It's a 6th level slot though, so an AT couldn't cast it regardless would have to do an spellcasting ability check with a DC of 16 to cast it.
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Yeah, I figured detect traps was the closest to what they might be thinking of, but it doesn't detect hidden doors, only doors that are only functioning as a trap and no other door-like properties, and still doesn't tell you where they are, so *shrug*.
There is no detect traps spell. However there is a Find traps. It just tells you if there is a trap in your line of sight up to 120’ but it doesn’t tell you where it is or what it is. It doesn’t work around corners or behind walls or inside a wardrobe unless you can already physically see the area. It also doesn’t detect things that were not specifically designed to be a trap.
Back on topic though. Nothing by RAW says an AT cannot use a scroll. An AT uses the same spell list as the Wizard, as does an Eldritch Knight. The spells known mechanic has no relevance whatsoever, otherwise Sorcerers, Rangers, Warlocks, and Bards would also not be able to use a scroll as they are also a spells known class.
RAW says "If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible." It's not about known vs prepared, it's about the fact that AT is a rogue class, and uses the wizard spell list, so therefore does not meet the "on your class's spell list" requirement, as there is no Rogue class spell list.
I think you'd need to hit a SA to get anything official. There are a number of ways to consider the qualification for a Spell Scroll Subclasses aren't as clean in their descriptions as one might like. For example a Light cleric gets Fireball. Does this mean he can cast a Fireball scroll? It's on their spell list under the subclass, so does that, by proxy mean it qualifies as "on their list" as per the rule?
Personally, as a DM, I would allow any character who could potentially cast the spell via class or subclass abilities use a scroll. To me, that would follow RaI, but that is my opinion, nothing more and certainly nothing official. In our current campaign we are allowing any caster class to use scrolls (might be due to having only 1 pure caster in the groups?) so house ruling is always a viable option.
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If I walk into a room and know there's "a dart trap" or "a secret pitfall" or "swinging axe" I usually know enough to narrow down solutions to avoid it. Not to mention that it detects bad contracts.(fiends or crime lord legal traps")
Knowing there are no traps in sight also means I can move faster skipping care(extra checks =extra time) possibly finishing a task before threats arrive.
As for known I was just thinking about how the only objection could be that because they know it it's their secondary "spell list" I don't think that's raw but I do think it's rai or raf.
I think you'd need to hit a SA to get anything official. There are a number of ways to consider the qualification for a Spell Scroll Subclasses aren't as clean in their descriptions as one might like. For example a Light cleric gets Fireball. Does this mean he can cast a Fireball scroll? It's on their spell list under the subclass, so does that, by proxy mean it qualifies as "on their list" as per the rule?
Personally, as a DM, I would allow any character who could potentially cast the spell via class or subclass abilities use a scroll. To me, that would follow RaI, but that is my opinion, nothing more and certainly nothing official. In our current campaign we are allowing any caster class to use scrolls (might be due to having only 1 pure caster in the groups?) so house ruling is always a viable option.
I would rule yes. To me, the rule is intended that you can cast any spell that you normally can cast, using a scroll. You can't get around not being able to cast another class' spell by using a scroll. So, yes, a Light Cleric (at my table) that has Fireball can use a scroll with it on. At least, assuming that the only rule that might prevent them is the having it on your spell list one.
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A bard can use any spell scroll that has a bard spell on it—including spells gained from the Magical Secrets feature, which are treated as bard spells for that character.
And, actually, color me wrong:
For you to meet a spell scroll’s requirement, the spell on the scroll needs to be on whatever spell list is used by your class. Here are two examples. If you’re a cleric, the spell must be on the cleric spell list, and if you’re a fighter with the Eldritch Knight archetype, the spell must be on the wizard spell list, because that is the spell list used by your class.
So SA actually says that an AT can use a scroll that's on the wizard spell list!
That's fascinating. Because it seems to indicate a ek has a class spell list and a champion doesn't. Meaning the subclass is modifying the class.( Which I assumed was a possibility but only for known spells.)
Hopefully 1dnd has terms defined for better reading. Sounds like they have a start
Yeah, they're swinging on the thread of technicality where all of the rogues that can use magic use the same class list, but it feels like poor editing and they could have used better wording, even in the SA, or provided an errata.
I expect the 1DD version of the EK & AT will use the Arcane spell list (not Wizard), and only gain spells of their specific schools from the Wizard list.
As an AT can I cast Arcane Scrolls? Such as Levitate and Detect Secret Doors
Thanks
Good question. my first thought is actually... raw no. AT has no spell list besides the spells known category(which may or may not be a class list)
I am not sure if it would upset balance or not. I think known spells is fine for easy play. But unknown wizard spells is a little harder but Considering the arcana check I would think it could be a fine hombrew at most tables.
This will probably be more clear in 1dnd.
Roscoeivan's correct, RAW no, as AT uses the wizard spell list and spell scrolls state "If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible." Your DM might allow you to still use scrolls, maybe on a case-by-case basis, but they're under no obligation to.
Also, there is no spell 'Detect Secret Doors.' The Dungeon Delver feat gives you advantage when searching for them.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
True Seeing does reveal secret doors hidden by magic. It's a 6th level slot though, so an AT
couldn't cast it regardlesswould have to do an spellcasting ability check with a DC of 16 to cast it.If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
There's also detect traps which gets ragged on more than I think it should.
But my guess is OP is a slightly newer player to 5e but not to role-playing. Hence, an honest mistake.
Yeah, I figured detect traps was the closest to what they might be thinking of, but it doesn't detect hidden doors, only doors that are only functioning as a trap and no other door-like properties, and still doesn't tell you where they are, so *shrug*.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
There is no detect traps spell. However there is a Find traps. It just tells you if there is a trap in your line of sight up to 120’ but it doesn’t tell you where it is or what it is. It doesn’t work around corners or behind walls or inside a wardrobe unless you can already physically see the area. It also doesn’t detect things that were not specifically designed to be a trap.
Back on topic though. Nothing by RAW says an AT cannot use a scroll. An AT uses the same spell list as the Wizard, as does an Eldritch Knight. The spells known mechanic has no relevance whatsoever, otherwise Sorcerers, Rangers, Warlocks, and Bards would also not be able to use a scroll as they are also a spells known class.
RAW says "If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible." It's not about known vs prepared, it's about the fact that AT is a rogue class, and uses the wizard spell list, so therefore does not meet the "on your class's spell list" requirement, as there is no Rogue class spell list.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
I think you'd need to hit a SA to get anything official. There are a number of ways to consider the qualification for a Spell Scroll Subclasses aren't as clean in their descriptions as one might like. For example a Light cleric gets Fireball. Does this mean he can cast a Fireball scroll? It's on their spell list under the subclass, so does that, by proxy mean it qualifies as "on their list" as per the rule?
Personally, as a DM, I would allow any character who could potentially cast the spell via class or subclass abilities use a scroll. To me, that would follow RaI, but that is my opinion, nothing more and certainly nothing official. In our current campaign we are allowing any caster class to use scrolls (might be due to having only 1 pure caster in the groups?) so house ruling is always a viable option.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
If I walk into a room and know there's "a dart trap" or "a secret pitfall" or "swinging axe" I usually know enough to narrow down solutions to avoid it. Not to mention that it detects bad contracts.(fiends or crime lord legal traps")
Knowing there are no traps in sight also means I can move faster skipping care(extra checks =extra time) possibly finishing a task before threats arrive.
As for known I was just thinking about how the only objection could be that because they know it it's their secondary "spell list" I don't think that's raw but I do think it's rai or raf.
I would rule yes. To me, the rule is intended that you can cast any spell that you normally can cast, using a scroll. You can't get around not being able to cast another class' spell by using a scroll. So, yes, a Light Cleric (at my table) that has Fireball can use a scroll with it on. At least, assuming that the only rule that might prevent them is the having it on your spell list one.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
And, actually, color me wrong:
So SA actually says that an AT can use a scroll that's on the wizard spell list!
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
That's fascinating. Because it seems to indicate a ek has a class spell list and a champion doesn't. Meaning the subclass is modifying the class.( Which I assumed was a possibility but only for known spells.)
Hopefully 1dnd has terms defined for better reading. Sounds like they have a start
Yeah, they're swinging on the thread of technicality where all of the rogues that can use magic use the same class list, but it feels like poor editing and they could have used better wording, even in the SA, or provided an errata.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
I expect the 1DD version of the EK & AT will use the Arcane spell list (not Wizard), and only gain spells of their specific schools from the Wizard list.
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