how about 'creature type' or 'playable monster type'? or can we not call them monsters anymore?
Creature type is already used for 'humanoid, fey, undead, dragon' etc and 'playable monster type' is a bit confusing of a term especially considering most playable options aren't monsters to start with, espeiclaly in the PHB.
how about 'creature type' or 'playable monster type'? or can we not call them monsters anymore?
Creature type is already used for 'humanoid, fey, undead, dragon' etc and 'playable monster type' is a bit confusing of a term especially considering most playable options aren't monsters to start with, espeiclaly in the PHB.
It should be noted one of the options Wizards is considering is “Creature Subtype”—so you would choose something like a Human as your “creature subtype” instead of your race. I’m not super fond of the mouthfeel of that as a phrase, but it is not a bad overall option.
Maybe I just don't understand it, but how is the term "Race" problematic? As a whole, we humans are a race, which is the way it is described in the Players Handbook for other humanoids as well. Even if "Species" is a more accurate term to describe the differences between different humanoids, it sounds far too scientific and impersonal.
Short version - Wizards of the Coast knows that D&D has a problematic history of racism in the game. For example, some of the game’s founders spoke frequently about support for eugenics and added parts of their own racial stereotyping to a number of elements of the game (one even continues to speak about this, actively advocating for the racism he wanted in the game to be returned).
Wizards sees the word “race” within the context as having developed a racial charge by virtue of having been used by racists. Changing to species allows them to take a mulligan, starting fresh with a new word that does not have the same level of baggage within the context of D&D.
As for it sounding too scientific - it should be noted that “species” is a very, very, very old word. It first appears in English in the 1500s - approximately the same time “race” enters English, in fact - and has its origins dating back to Latin by way of Old French. Etymologically speaking, the word makes as much sense as “race” does - it will just take a bit for us to get used to using the new term.
I am so glad I didn’t come across this thread until now.
I use Heritage, as separate it wholly from culture. I avoid terms such as race, species, and ethnicity because of the underlying nature of how the mere use of them reinforces structural problem not only in the game, but in the player group as well.
As the majority of my players (and I myself) are PoC, we collectively said “F-it”.
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Maybe I just don't understand it, but how is the term "Race" problematic? As a whole, we humans are a race, which is the way it is described in the Players Handbook for other humanoids as well. Even if "Species" is a more accurate term to describe the differences between different humanoids, it sounds far too scientific and impersonal.
This thread is nearly 30 pages long. Read it. You’ll find your question addressed repeatedly.
Maybe I just don't understand it, but how is the term "Race" problematic? As a whole, we humans are a race, which is the way it is described in the Players Handbook for other humanoids as well. Even if "Species" is a more accurate term to describe the differences between different humanoids, it sounds far too scientific and impersonal.
There have me been 30 pages explaining why the change was made and how several of your assertions about the new terminology are wrong. I get not wanting to read all the comments, but you could have done a quick search for keywords and easily found your answers.
Long story short, the term “race” in this context was offensive to a substantial number of people. Changing the word used for this hurts no one and helps make the game a safer place for others.
I am so glad I didn’t come across this thread until now.
There's more than one train-wreck thread on this general topic. I don't recommend trying to find them.
I guess this one will get traffic again until the thread on Kyle's next interview gets derailed and locked
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Just because he is facing push back right now doesn't mean it's followed by logical explanations. Not only that, but no one has explained how the original term is offensive. This seems to really have been started by the wave of over-sensitivity and over-analyzation started by the media, which has leaked into entertainment and pop-culture to an almost toxic level.
Since you decided to reply to me, for some reason, I'll humor you with a response.
Whatever it "seems" to you, this started with a direct effort by WotC, years ago. Direct quote: "We want everyone to feel at home around the game table and to see positive reflections of themselves within our products."
Maybe I just don't understand it, but how is the term "Race" problematic? As a whole, we humans are a race, which is the way it is described in the Players Handbook for other humanoids as well. Even if "Species" is a more accurate term to describe the differences between different humanoids, it sounds far too scientific and impersonal.
To me it comes down to the meaning of the word race in game and the meaning of the word race IRL. They aren't the same and if you're part of a real world racial group that has been demeaned and marginalized when a fantasy race gets depicted in similar ways can be upsetting for some, which kind of ruins some of the experience in a game where you're trying to have fun.
A different word is cleaner and species is more accurate, though I agree it does come out rather awkwardly when used in game. Though I imagine that people will get used to it sooner or later and it won't seem that weird anymore.
Folk, Lineage, Kin, or Ancestry all feel like the best options. Personally I would say Lineage or Ancestry are the best overall terms, with Folk or Kin making sense as something a specific group might call themselves (Elven Kind, Gnomish Folk, Human Kind, Half-orc Kin, etc)
I dislike species because the history of a lot of fantasy races is such that there is active cross-mating of humanoids and it doesn't make sense to me to call the outcome of that a different species, just like it doesn't make sense to call them a different race.
The Lineage or Ancestry of a character seems to me a better way to refer to them.
how about 'creature type' or 'playable monster type'? or can we not call them monsters anymore?
Creature type is already used for 'humanoid, fey, undead, dragon' etc and 'playable monster type' is a bit confusing of a term especially considering most playable options aren't monsters to start with, espeiclaly in the PHB.
It should be noted one of the options Wizards is considering is “Creature Subtype”—so you would choose something like a Human as your “creature subtype” instead of your race. I’m not super fond of the mouthfeel of that as a phrase, but it is not a bad overall option.
Humans are often the worse of the monsters. :D
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Observably so
[REDACTED]
Short version - Wizards of the Coast knows that D&D has a problematic history of racism in the game. For example, some of the game’s founders spoke frequently about support for eugenics and added parts of their own racial stereotyping to a number of elements of the game (one even continues to speak about this, actively advocating for the racism he wanted in the game to be returned).
Wizards sees the word “race” within the context as having developed a racial charge by virtue of having been used by racists. Changing to species allows them to take a mulligan, starting fresh with a new word that does not have the same level of baggage within the context of D&D.
As for it sounding too scientific - it should be noted that “species” is a very, very, very old word. It first appears in English in the 1500s - approximately the same time “race” enters English, in fact - and has its origins dating back to Latin by way of Old French. Etymologically speaking, the word makes as much sense as “race” does - it will just take a bit for us to get used to using the new term.
I am so glad I didn’t come across this thread until now.
I use Heritage, as separate it wholly from culture. I avoid terms such as race, species, and ethnicity because of the underlying nature of how the mere use of them reinforces structural problem not only in the game, but in the player group as well.
As the majority of my players (and I myself) are PoC, we collectively said “F-it”.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
This thread is nearly 30 pages long. Read it. You’ll find your question addressed repeatedly.
There's more than one train-wreck thread on this general topic. I don't recommend trying to find them.
There have me been 30 pages explaining why the change was made and how several of your assertions about the new terminology are wrong. I get not wanting to read all the comments, but you could have done a quick search for keywords and easily found your answers.
Long story short, the term “race” in this context was offensive to a substantial number of people. Changing the word used for this hurts no one and helps make the game a safer place for others.
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HERE.I guess this one will get traffic again until the thread on Kyle's next interview gets derailed and locked
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Since you decided to reply to me, for some reason, I'll humor you with a response.
WotC themselves have explained this, directly. Start here: https://dnd.wizards.com/news/diversity-and-dnd That's from 2020.
Next, read this: https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1393-moving-on-from-race-in-one-d-d As WotC now owns dndbeyond, that is also an official statement.
Whatever it "seems" to you, this started with a direct effort by WotC, years ago. Direct quote: "We want everyone to feel at home around the game table and to see positive reflections of themselves within our products."
To me it comes down to the meaning of the word race in game and the meaning of the word race IRL. They aren't the same and if you're part of a real world racial group that has been demeaned and marginalized when a fantasy race gets depicted in similar ways can be upsetting for some, which kind of ruins some of the experience in a game where you're trying to have fun.
A different word is cleaner and species is more accurate, though I agree it does come out rather awkwardly when used in game. Though I imagine that people will get used to it sooner or later and it won't seem that weird anymore.
I’m inclined to use “flesh”, as in “I’m of elven flesh”, but I know that won’t be everyone’s preference.
Folk, Lineage, Kin, or Ancestry all feel like the best options. Personally I would say Lineage or Ancestry are the best overall terms, with Folk or Kin making sense as something a specific group might call themselves (Elven Kind, Gnomish Folk, Human Kind, Half-orc Kin, etc)
I dislike species because the history of a lot of fantasy races is such that there is active cross-mating of humanoids and it doesn't make sense to me to call the outcome of that a different species, just like it doesn't make sense to call them a different race.
The Lineage or Ancestry of a character seems to me a better way to refer to them.
I like folk as an alternative. It has a more rustic/ fantasy feel to it. Species has much more of s SciFi / Steampunk / CoC vibe to it.
I think species is the best word used in this case.
I have more to say, but since its really not a vote, its probably not worth explaining more.
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