Actually banning the used of any digital character sheet and dice role is a good policy.
Consider this. Any digital content can be changed and adjusted instantly at the will of the parent company(programers0. Thus over time the digital system could deviate from the hand held physical book. And if the physical book is what the DM uses........ His rule his table. The player may never even know that something is changing but one day a few of his numbers change and a few sessions later someone notices. Or the player has a few supplement books checked and all of a sudden has a few extra spells no one even knew about.
This is why I always print out my character sheet each level and add any notes I need.
And if the internet ever goes down or the power goes out I can still play by candle light. Just like we all used to do.
People complain the the old system was too hard for new players, How many or those new players can creat a character with no help from just the books? We all used to do exactly that. Were we smarter than new players today or was the system actually easier?
Or you could just, you know, talk to the DM?
And no, grognards are not "smarter". I started playing in 2018 and have the core rulebooks physically. In fact, I don't even use D&D Beyond for characters. The rulebooks are easy and intuitive enough to read through without assistance.
Yes the Damage has been done. Even if WoTC back tracks, this mess has shed light on potential vulnerabilities. People aren't going to want to risk their business and careers over such ambiguity especially when the company in charge appears to be ruthless and uncaring. I believe that is why many big 3rd party publishers such as KP are unhitching their wagon regardless of what WoTC ultimately decides.
That being said, I think the only way WoTC might be able to somewhat recover from this is if they come out and strengthen the original OGL to give assurance that it couldn't be 'unauthorized' or revoked in the future. That assurance might bring some of the 3rd party creators back to the table. However, I seriously doubt that is what WoTC will do. Add on to that the fact that it has taken them so long to even comment on it, it highlights their real intentions.
Well Friday Jan 13 2023, a date that may live in D&D infamy, is soon approaching. While it does seem that some damage has been done, the question remains if Hasbro/Wotc will comment on the recent developments?
Will the unified player base and general community discover the fate of the future of 3rdPP and "Open Gaming Content"?
Stay tuned to the next exciting episode of #OpenDnD!
Rumor has it, WotC hired an actor to deliver the statement, some further rumors are Joe Manganiello. Just cause I think it's amusing and WotC may be trumped by Hasbro, I'm betting they bring out Vin Diesel who will try to use the same "come on back" styling he used for the "let's go to the movies" monologue to get people in theaters for F9 that still creeps me out, almost as much as it does when he says "family."
Rumor has it, WotC hired an actor to deliver the statement, some further rumors are Joe Manganiello. Just cause I think it's amusing and WotC may be trumped by Hasbro, I'm betting they bring out Vin Diesel who will try to use the same "come on back" styling he used for the "let's go to the movies" monologue to get people in theaters for F9 that still creeps me out, almost as much as it does when he says "family."
Nothing official to cite, just rumor mongering.
Friday comes and Morgan Freeman is hired to calmy speak about the OGL rumors. Rebuttal is from Samuel L. Jackson.
Regardless if the 'Response Coming Soon' means we are held in limbo till after March, I feel investors might just start looking for a chopping block and an axe to grind. Two major controversies within a six-month window just begs for a sacrificial scapegoat to be volunteered.
Funny though, took Wotc what 48 hours after YouTube rumors to post a response? Yet a quick "we have heard the community and player base, and after talks with a number of 3rd party individuals, we are working to cast a WISH spell to change the outcry. "
I do find it amusing how companies like kobold press are going to be looking like they saved the day and pass for the people's heroes, when their just going to do something that that should have been preparing for from their very beginning (and they probably have).
If I were an exec at kobold press or Paizo I'd probably be peeing my pants with excitement and glee.
They're not going to get another golden moment like this in another decade, probably.
I used to play PF1E but didn't enjoy that system nearly as much as 5E which I've been almost exclusively using for the last 6 years or so.
WotC in their scummyness made me check out PF2E which just seems way better, especially from a combat and DM'ing perspective, so a big thank you to WotC for driving me away and thus improving my TTRPG experience.
I used to play PF1E but didn't enjoy that system nearly as much as 5E which I've been almost exclusively using for the last 6 years or so.
WotC in their scummyness made me check out PF2E which just seems way better, especially from a combat and DM'ing perspective, so a big thank you to WotC for driving me away and thus improving my TTRPG experience.
2e is a great. It's an amazing system, designed by RPG players with a solid understanding of the underlying mechanics of rpgs. It's all I'll run.
That said, when other people are more comfortable in 5e or 5e has the material they want to run... that's what I've played. Until now - seems like most of them are very amenable to running pf2 going forward.
I used to play PF1E but didn't enjoy that system nearly as much as 5E which I've been almost exclusively using for the last 6 years or so.
WotC in their scummyness made me check out PF2E which just seems way better, especially from a combat and DM'ing perspective, so a big thank you to WotC for driving me away and thus improving my TTRPG experience.
2e is a great. It's an amazing system, designed by RPG players with a solid understanding of the underlying mechanics of rpgs. It's all I'll run.
That said, when other people are more comfortable in 5e or 5e has the material they want to run... that's what I've played. Until now - seems like most of them are very amenable to running pf2 going forward.
Pathfinder (both 1e and 2e) are definitely good games, but I dislike their overall design.
Put simply, D&D is a roleplaying game, whereas Pathfinder is a roleplaying game. Pathfinder is primarily fun because of the mechanics, though because of that it feels that the themes and story are there to justify the game. Whereas D&D's mechanics are there to support the story and roleplay.
I do find it amusing how companies like kobold press are going to be looking like they saved the day and pass for the people's heroes, when their just going to do something that that should have been preparing for from their very beginning (and they probably have).
If I were an exec at kobold press or Paizo I'd probably be peeing my pants with excitement and glee.
They're not going to get another golden moment like this in another decade, probably.
MCDM's explanation of their plans admits "it's something we were most likely going to be doing soon anyway" and the OGL flap just expedited the deliberations. I haven't seen any official statement, but Kobold's Project Black Flag seemed to be something they were leaning toward themselves. Both have the resources to develop their own systems and were probably at a sort of peak level running Into the limitations of a business model that was derivative or reliant on the existence of another company's "rules". Leak/draft/whatever and however accurate or inaccurate or poorly reported and discussed, the WotC's inability to speak to the problem by day 2, a self inflicted wound, clearly has harmed community trust in the brand, and presented opportunity for others, basically another Paizo moment.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Damage has been done. The 3PP industry was built on trust in Hasbro as represented in the OGL, and that trust has been lost.
The two big questions left to be answered are:
1) Can Hasbro retroactively change the OGL for previously released SRD content (i.e. can 3PP continue to deliver content under SRD 5.1 / OGL 1.0a)? This will either get determined by the courts, or by Hasbro allowing for continued content generation and having OGL1.1 apply only to OneD&D.
2) Is OneD&D backwards compatible (as has been claimed) enough with 5e that 3PP can create content under OGL1.0a and SRD5.1 that is usable within OneD&D? If the answer to the first question is yes, then this creates a huge incentive for Hasbro to not make OneD&D backward to allow for the monetization and control of 3PP through OGL1.1, if the 3PP signs. Which will recreate the 4.0 situation and results, in my view, in “Pathfinder5e: brought to you by the 5.1 SRD”
I do find it amusing how companies like kobold press are going to be looking like they saved the day and pass for the people's heroes, when their just going to do something that that should have been preparing for from their very beginning (and they probably have).
If I were an exec at kobold press or Paizo I'd probably be peeing my pants with excitement and glee.
They're not going to get another golden moment like this in another decade, probably.
MCDM's explanation of their plans admits "it's something we were most likely going to be doing soon anyway" and the OGL flap just expedited the deliberations. I haven't seen any official statement, but Kobold's Project Black Flag seemed to be something they were leaning toward themselves. Both have the resources to develop their own systems and were probably at a sort of peak level running Into the limitations of a business model that was derivative or reliant on the existence of another company's "rules". Leak/draft/whatever and however accurate or inaccurate or poorly reported and discussed, the WotC's inability to speak to the problem by day 2, a self inflicted wound, clearly has harmed community trust in the brand, and presented opportunity for others, basically another Paizo moment.
It would be pretty sweet if kobold and mcdm teamed up to make the system. Either of them individually would be good, but together, it could be great.
But hey, if we get a few new game systems to try out after all this, it will turn out out gamers are the big winners after all. So, I guess, thanks WotC for accidentally sparking a ttrpg explosion. 🤷♂️
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
YouTuber DND_Shorts is reporting via Twitter that he has received a message from inside WotC. THIS HAS NOT BEEN CORROBORATED, so take it as you will. If true, however, it's pretty dour.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
If this is true--and it's consistent with the deafening silence they've given us to this point--then this attitude of "customers as obstacles between them and their money" will not be fixed even with a full OGL 1.0a rollback.
We must demand new leadership that understands and values the community because they're part of the community. Whether that's in WotC or via Paizo/Kobold/etc.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cancelled Master Tier Subscription because of OGL 1.1
It's vexing to watch all these 3rd party publishers crying their crocodile tears about how they've been riding high on the hog for the past two decades using another bigger company's IP and branding for free... now "suddenly" having to cough up a little gas money if you use the car a lot.
If the company had been smart (read; KP: "we were planning to do so anyway") one wonders WHY they hadn't yet done so (read: "continuing to feed from the big trough")... the prime timing would have been 3-5 years ago when ttrps started sprouting out of the ground like daisies... NOW it just looks reactionary and petulant in a "Well I didn't want to play in your sandbox anyway" style of commentary.
Notice, though, how some of these companies are hedging their bets and not saying anything (much) about the OGL and just announcing their new indy ttrpg plans? Yeah... we see you waiting until the dust settles to pick a side. LOL
It's vexing to watch all these 3rd party publishers crying their crocodile tears about how they've been riding high on the hog for the past two decades using another bigger company's IP and branding for free... now "suddenly" having to cough up a little gas money if you use the car a lot.
If the company had been smart (read; KP: "we were planning to do so anyway") one wonders WHY they hadn't yet done so (read: "continuing to feed from the big trough")... the prime timing would have been 3-5 years ago when ttrps started sprouting out of the ground like daisies... NOW it just looks reactionary and petulant in a "Well I didn't want to play in your sandbox anyway" style of commentary.
Notice, though, how some of these companies are hedging their bets and not saying anything (much) about the OGL and just announcing their new indy ttrpg plans? Yeah... we see you waiting until the dust settles to pick a side. LOL
I agree that 3PP have been reaping an outsize benefit here, so updating the OGL makes sense on those grounds. The leaked 1.1 terms are excessive though.
It's vexing to watch all these 3rd party publishers crying their crocodile tears about how they've been riding high on the hog for the past two decades using another bigger company's IP and branding for free... now "suddenly" having to cough up a little gas money if you use the car a lot.
If the company had been smart (read; KP: "we were planning to do so anyway") one wonders WHY they hadn't yet done so (read: "continuing to feed from the big trough")... the prime timing would have been 3-5 years ago when ttrps started sprouting out of the ground like daisies... NOW it just looks reactionary and petulant in a "Well I didn't want to play in your sandbox anyway" style of commentary.
Notice, though, how some of these companies are hedging their bets and not saying anything (much) about the OGL and just announcing their new indy ttrpg plans? Yeah... we see you waiting until the dust settles to pick a side. LOL
I agree that 3PP have been reaping an outsize benefit here, so updating the OGL makes sense on those grounds. The leaked 1.1 terms are excessive though.
It's vexing to watch all these 3rd party publishers crying their crocodile tears about how they've been riding high on the hog for the past two decades using another bigger company's IP and branding for free... now "suddenly" having to cough up a little gas money if you use the car a lot.
If the company had been smart (read; KP: "we were planning to do so anyway") one wonders WHY they hadn't yet done so (read: "continuing to feed from the big trough")... the prime timing would have been 3-5 years ago when ttrps started sprouting out of the ground like daisies... NOW it just looks reactionary and petulant in a "Well I didn't want to play in your sandbox anyway" style of commentary.
Notice, though, how some of these companies are hedging their bets and not saying anything (much) about the OGL and just announcing their new indy ttrpg plans? Yeah... we see you waiting until the dust settles to pick a side. LOL
I agree that 3PP have been reaping an outsize benefit here, so updating the OGL makes sense on those grounds. The leaked 1.1 terms are excessive though.
The whole point is to allow third parties to reap whatever benefits they can, as that increases the value of the license in general. Content they create is content that makes DnD more valuable, and generates you sales indirectly at no cost to yourself. People need your core rulebooks.
Even the Pathfinder situation fits into this - Pathfinder kept DnD "valuable" through 4e, so players were still in the market for 5e to come in and pick them back up.
There was not a single third party that was material competition to DnD under the original OGL. This whole situation is insane and a terrible business decision top to bottom.
Or you could just, you know, talk to the DM?
And no, grognards are not "smarter". I started playing in 2018 and have the core rulebooks physically. In fact, I don't even use D&D Beyond for characters. The rulebooks are easy and intuitive enough to read through without assistance.
[REDACTED]
Yes the Damage has been done. Even if WoTC back tracks, this mess has shed light on potential vulnerabilities. People aren't going to want to risk their business and careers over such ambiguity especially when the company in charge appears to be ruthless and uncaring. I believe that is why many big 3rd party publishers such as KP are unhitching their wagon regardless of what WoTC ultimately decides.
That being said, I think the only way WoTC might be able to somewhat recover from this is if they come out and strengthen the original OGL to give assurance that it couldn't be 'unauthorized' or revoked in the future. That assurance might bring some of the 3rd party creators back to the table. However, I seriously doubt that is what WoTC will do. Add on to that the fact that it has taken them so long to even comment on it, it highlights their real intentions.
Well Friday Jan 13 2023, a date that may live in D&D infamy, is soon approaching. While it does seem that some damage has been done, the question remains if Hasbro/Wotc will comment on the recent developments?
Will the unified player base and general community discover the fate of the future of 3rdPP and "Open Gaming Content"?
Stay tuned to the next exciting episode of #OpenDnD!
Rumor has it, WotC hired an actor to deliver the statement, some further rumors are Joe Manganiello. Just cause I think it's amusing and WotC may be trumped by Hasbro, I'm betting they bring out Vin Diesel who will try to use the same "come on back" styling he used for the "let's go to the movies" monologue to get people in theaters for F9 that still creeps me out, almost as much as it does when he says "family."
Nothing official to cite, just rumor mongering.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Friday comes and Morgan Freeman is hired to calmy speak about the OGL rumors. Rebuttal is from Samuel L. Jackson.
Regardless if the 'Response Coming Soon' means we are held in limbo till after March, I feel investors might just start looking for a chopping block and an axe to grind. Two major controversies within a six-month window just begs for a sacrificial scapegoat to be volunteered.
Funny though, took Wotc what 48 hours after YouTube rumors to post a response? Yet a quick "we have heard the community and player base, and after talks with a number of 3rd party individuals, we are working to cast a WISH spell to change the outcry. "
I do find it amusing how companies like kobold press are going to be looking like they saved the day and pass for the people's heroes, when their just going to do something that that should have been preparing for from their very beginning (and they probably have).
If I were an exec at kobold press or Paizo I'd probably be peeing my pants with excitement and glee.
They're not going to get another golden moment like this in another decade, probably.
I used to play PF1E but didn't enjoy that system nearly as much as 5E which I've been almost exclusively using for the last 6 years or so.
WotC in their scummyness made me check out PF2E which just seems way better, especially from a combat and DM'ing perspective, so a big thank you to WotC for driving me away and thus improving my TTRPG experience.
2e is a great. It's an amazing system, designed by RPG players with a solid understanding of the underlying mechanics of rpgs. It's all I'll run.
That said, when other people are more comfortable in 5e or 5e has the material they want to run... that's what I've played. Until now - seems like most of them are very amenable to running pf2 going forward.
Pathfinder (both 1e and 2e) are definitely good games, but I dislike their overall design.
Put simply, D&D is a roleplaying game, whereas Pathfinder is a roleplaying game. Pathfinder is primarily fun because of the mechanics, though because of that it feels that the themes and story are there to justify the game. Whereas D&D's mechanics are there to support the story and roleplay.
[REDACTED]
MCDM's explanation of their plans admits "it's something we were most likely going to be doing soon anyway" and the OGL flap just expedited the deliberations. I haven't seen any official statement, but Kobold's Project Black Flag seemed to be something they were leaning toward themselves. Both have the resources to develop their own systems and were probably at a sort of peak level running Into the limitations of a business model that was derivative or reliant on the existence of another company's "rules". Leak/draft/whatever and however accurate or inaccurate or poorly reported and discussed, the WotC's inability to speak to the problem by day 2, a self inflicted wound, clearly has harmed community trust in the brand, and presented opportunity for others, basically another Paizo moment.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Damage has been done. The 3PP industry was built on trust in Hasbro as represented in the OGL, and that trust has been lost.
The two big questions left to be answered are:
1) Can Hasbro retroactively change the OGL for previously released SRD content (i.e. can 3PP continue to deliver content under SRD 5.1 / OGL 1.0a)? This will either get determined by the courts, or by Hasbro allowing for continued content generation and having OGL1.1 apply only to OneD&D.
2) Is OneD&D backwards compatible (as has been claimed) enough with 5e that 3PP can create content under OGL1.0a and SRD5.1 that is usable within OneD&D? If the answer to the first question is yes, then this creates a huge incentive for Hasbro to not make OneD&D backward to allow for the monetization and control of 3PP through OGL1.1, if the 3PP signs. Which will recreate the 4.0 situation and results, in my view, in “Pathfinder5e: brought to you by the 5.1 SRD”
It would be pretty sweet if kobold and mcdm teamed up to make the system. Either of them individually would be good, but together, it could be great.
But hey, if we get a few new game systems to try out after all this, it will turn out out gamers are the big winners after all. So, I guess, thanks WotC for accidentally sparking a ttrpg explosion. 🤷♂️
Looks like WotC is releasing a video at 3pm EST today to address CGL 1.1. Roll for Combat YouTube channel is going to cover it.
https://twitter.com/RollForCombat/status/1613566977490001928
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
YouTuber DND_Shorts is reporting via Twitter that he has received a message from inside WotC. THIS HAS NOT BEEN CORROBORATED, so take it as you will. If true, however, it's pretty dour.
https://twitter.com/DnD_Shorts/status/1613576298114449409?cxt=HHwWgoDQsYLGyeQsAAAA
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
If this is true--and it's consistent with the deafening silence they've given us to this point--then this attitude of "customers as obstacles between them and their money" will not be fixed even with a full OGL 1.0a rollback.
We must demand new leadership that understands and values the community because they're part of the community. Whether that's in WotC or via Paizo/Kobold/etc.
Cancelled Master Tier Subscription because of OGL 1.1
Add your name to the #OpenDnD Letter to Wotc/Hasbro: https://www.opendnd.games/
YES!
Thank you.
It's vexing to watch all these 3rd party publishers crying their crocodile tears about how they've been riding high on the hog for the past two decades using another bigger company's IP and branding for free... now "suddenly" having to cough up a little gas money if you use the car a lot.
If the company had been smart (read; KP: "we were planning to do so anyway") one wonders WHY they hadn't yet done so (read: "continuing to feed from the big trough")... the prime timing would have been 3-5 years ago when ttrps started sprouting out of the ground like daisies... NOW it just looks reactionary and petulant in a "Well I didn't want to play in your sandbox anyway" style of commentary.
Notice, though, how some of these companies are hedging their bets and not saying anything (much) about the OGL and just announcing their new indy ttrpg plans?
Yeah... we see you waiting until the dust settles to pick a side. LOL
I agree that 3PP have been reaping an outsize benefit here, so updating the OGL makes sense on those grounds. The leaked 1.1 terms are excessive though.
Theyre almost certainly staying silent for legal reasons. Possibly under NDAs, or threat of action/liability.
Until Wizards goes public with something, there's nothing for them to technically comment on.
Sides have definitely already been picked.
Yeah, pretty much how I feel about it too.
The whole point is to allow third parties to reap whatever benefits they can, as that increases the value of the license in general. Content they create is content that makes DnD more valuable, and generates you sales indirectly at no cost to yourself. People need your core rulebooks.
Even the Pathfinder situation fits into this - Pathfinder kept DnD "valuable" through 4e, so players were still in the market for 5e to come in and pick them back up.
There was not a single third party that was material competition to DnD under the original OGL. This whole situation is insane and a terrible business decision top to bottom.