If you agreed to OGL1.0a but not the new leaked one, that does not mean Wizards can simply take your work that is already published and claim past revenue that have already accrued. If you agree to the new one, then that does mean you agree to let Wizards take your stuff. If you do not want Wizards to take your stuff, then stop using OGL1.0a because it will be revoked, and do not use the new OGL. If you worked on a new world, you can just make it system agnostic. If you worked on a subclass, that is a bit more difficult separate your IP from Wizards IP, but you can still take your flavor and mechanics away and separate it from the class, and say your stuff applies to people with and/or without access to magic, and let the reader decide how to apply and homebrew those flavor and mechanics.
Wizards cannot simply take control of Critical Role unless Mercer agrees to the new OGL. All Mercer had to do is to not agree to the new OGL and stop using the old one, and Critical Role will be fine. Mercer can still publish Critical Role books, he just have to divorce his IP from Wizards' IP.
Yeah, I really do not care because it does not affect me. For third party materials that I do use, mainly GM books, minis, and maps, they work with any game system and not just D&D, so I am not worried about them being out of business. No one is entitled to Wizards' IP, and Wizards is not entitled to anyone else's IP either.
Yeah? They most certainly CAN take control of CR. Critical Role has published scads of material under the OGL, as well as material published by Wizards itself. They would immediately switch systems, CHANGE CHARACTERS, and likely change Matt's entire campaign world. It's not as simple as it would be for a DM to just stop playing a game and switch to a different one. You're basically shrugging and ignoring the complexity of if... because you don't care.
It's not just them. Knights of the Old Republic was published under the OGL. Does that mean that Hasbro would own Darth Revan? That they could publish Star Wars KotR material against Disney's wishes and without a cut? To borrow a line I heard from someone... "They can certainly try." How about the Lord of the Rings 5e supplement, published under OGL. Care to take on the Tolkien estate, Hasbro? Or maybe Warner Bros/Discovery?
Well, we do care. Not just me, but countless other D&D players.
Wizards cannot simply take control of Critical Role unless Mercer agrees to the new OGL.
Wizards is not going to "take control" of Critical Role under any OGL. This is the kind of absurdity that's made discussion of what's actually happening almost impossible
Why? What's to stop them? Under this new license they absolutely could. Absolutely legally. Oh, is it that CR is just to big and famous to seize? Hardly says much for the rest of us, the little people and the small press that published under the OGL. We're not Matt Mercer and company, so **** us? We're on our own.
You're not exactly making a devastating argument there.
I'd like to add this to the conversation to correct some misconceptions that have been posted so far:
1.) "It's all just rumor"...it definitely is NOT rumor. The updated OGL has been posted at ogl.battlezoo.com - the posted OGL matches what has been stated about it from the outset: it removes rights that 3rd Party content producers have relied upon for over 20 years and hands ownership of the content to WoTC. WoTC's own statements on the matter do not match what they were doing in discussions with 3rd Party content producers separately, notably that they "were still determining what form the OGL will take". Those that did reach out to WoTC in an effort to determine the changes to the OGL were provided copies that were in executable contracts. You don't provide executable contracts when you're still determining how things will change.
2.) "It doesn't affect me because I don't use 3rd party content" - you may want to reconsider that position, particularly if you subscribe to any Patreon content producers, like watching YouTube content that references D&D, or want to make use of any apps for character management, etc. It also is likely to affect VTTs that are currently available as WoTC produces their own VTT. Kickstarter product? That, too, is likely to shutdown entirely as the profit margins on these products aren't large enough to signing away 20% AND rights to the product.
3.) Even if you don't plan to use any 3rd party content and don't expect to in the future, you might consider another point of view: that of the people who've been contributing to our community for over 20 years. As we speak, WoTC/Hasbro have decided to take 25% of the profits AND ownership of the derivative works from people who've built a career around producing products for our hobby. These aren't just "big publishers", it'll affect small writers, artists, editors, etc as a great many of these jobs will be impacted by the decisions WoTC has made. What would your reaction be if someone suddenly eliminated your career?
4.) One final point: There have been statements published by Ryan Dancey, former VP of WoTC, who was directly involved in creation of the original OGL that it was specifically intended to be perpetual. WoTC's own statements on the matter from their FAQ in April of 2004 indicate that it was not intended to be revocable and the wording in the license suggests that multiple revisions were anticipated but that one would not invalidate another. If OGL was revocable, why did WoTC use a GSL for 4E? Why not simply revoke the OGL then?
It's disappointing to see WoTC and Hasbro taking these steps...while I'm not particularly hopeful about the future, I hold out hope that community pressure may yet encourage them to reverse course.
The writing is on the wall. Even if they walk it back, this is the plan long term. Kick out 3rd parties and create a walled garden for micro transactions like in video games. These terms are horrible. Who would sign? Whatever you spend money on to create we can take when we feel like it. Also we can change the contract and monetary agreements whenever we want.
There is nothing open about this license. This is a brand new license trying to use the old one's name. By doing this they are trying to use a loophole to eliminate 1.0. 1.0 was supposed to be perpetual so they need to find a way to erase it. Instead of people signing up for 6th edition on it's own merits, they are trying to burn everything else down so they're no options. I'm so grateful there's so many other systems to jump to.
This sucks because I really like using DDB. Sadly though, I'm downloading my characters and logging out of DDB now. I'll monitor the situation and if (when it's actually released) the OGL 1.1 is anything like as onerous to independent third party creators/artists/community members (big and small) then I will very regrettably have no choice but to cancel my DDB subscription which I have held since launch. No way I support this predatory type of corporate behaviour. I'm a shareholder of Hasbro as well and will be exiting that if this situation does not U-turn.
Where will I end up? Probably not 5e, and certainly not One D&D (which in light of current knowledge sounds more and more Lawful Evil - 'the ONE game to rule them all' than ever) ! For me it is older pre-WotC versions of the game.... AD&D... and OSR stuff, and most likely new games that don't have any reliance on OGL/SRD. Kobold and Paizo and others will need a lot of consumer support and I'm ready to send my dollars their way to help with the legal expenses they will no doubt incur.
I play at my local game shops on each Weds and we always log in so that WotC can track who is playing what at which retailer. Won't be doing that anymore....our game will move to the DM's garage and we are going pen and paper all out.
I do all this with a heavy heart and whether people agree or not I'm following my conscience. Have no ill will to folks who decide to keep on keeping on with WotC products irrespective of what they do... We all need to chart our own courses in life.
The new OGL (OGL 1.1) is a slap in the face to the D&D community and a betrayal of the original intent (and promise) of the original OGL.
Unless WotC backs off of it's current position, I plan on migrating all my games to a different system and terminating my subscription to D&DB. It's heartbreaking to think, but I have no intention of supporting a company that exercises in this kind of over-reach against the community of players, developers, writers, and DMs that have made the game the success it is today.
I literally own everything WotC has published for DnD5e - even the stuff that is of questionable quality - and prefer the content made third party in many cases. My interest in 5e was only because of the amazing community out there. I would have gone with a completely different TTRPG when I returned to gaming a couple years ago had it not been for the content of people like Critical Role, Acquisitions Inc., Dungeon Dudes, Matt Covill, How to Be a Great GM, and many other contributors. To NOT recognize that they are the driving force behind your product's success and popularity is unforgivable.
I will be watching, very carefully, for a change in position from WotC... and if I don't see one, I'll be voting with my feet... and my wallet.
I will be doing exactly this as well. I have zero interest in supporting a company that would go this far to exercise their power for greed. I will also be spreading the word to my entire community to show what hasbro has done.
I genuinely hope hasbro will reconsider the direction they have taken and instead of wiping away the 1.0 license, strengthen it instead. It will do more for their brand to continue supporting the community that has brought them their success.
The fact that Wizards/Hasbro has waited so long and still has not communicated about this situation is telling. The owner of Kickstarter has come out and pretty much stated the leaked document is true. If OGL 1.1 goes forward as written as per leak I and my players are done. I've already cancelled $300 worth of preorders from wotc and WizKids. The news from WOTC determines if you get my $60 for dm subscription here. I started DND under first ed ad&d but player many other systems. I'm not scared to take my money elsewhere.... I did in fourth edition.
I realize that I have been supporting the wrong side from the very beginning. WotC is in the wrong, and if this keeps up, I plan to terminate any purchases regarding onednd, or WotC in general.
As of today, with the full document available, and free to read. I am cancelling my sub to DnDB until that time which WotC Revokes any connection to the current wording of the OGL 1.1
edit: Changed vote to "Yes. As written, I cannot and will not, support a company that proposes this."
I cancelled my subscriber today. It's still good until September since I paid for a year but once I finish the current game I'm DMing I'm switching over to another system. I owned about a dozen hardcover 5E books and probably 8-10 books on DND Beyond but I'm done with DND and will be moving my game to another system.
As of today, with the full document available, and free to read. I am cancelling my sub to DnDB until that time which WotC Revokes any connection to the current wording of the OGL 1.1
edit: Changed vote to "Yes. As written, I cannot and will not, support a company that proposes this."
Do you have a link to the document that is on a hasbro WotC side or something like that?
Would really like to see the official document before deciding.
As of today, with the full document available, and free to read. I am cancelling my sub to DnDB until that time which WotC Revokes any connection to the current wording of the OGL 1.1
edit: Changed vote to "Yes. As written, I cannot and will not, support a company that proposes this."
Do you have a link to the document that is on a hasbro WotC side or something like that?
Would really like to see the official document before deciding.
Wizards has not made it available to the public yet (it was send out under NDA to third party content creators). The document did leak and is one of the top posts over on the DNDNext subreddit right now: https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/
As of today, with the full document available, and free to read. I am cancelling my sub to DnDB until that time which WotC Revokes any connection to the current wording of the OGL 1.1
edit: Changed vote to "Yes. As written, I cannot and will not, support a company that proposes this."
Do you have a link to the document that is on a hasbro WotC side or something like that?
Would really like to see the official document before deciding.
Don’t forget that the D&D movie is coming out in less than 3 months. It’s an easy way to vote with your wallet by not seeing it in theaters unless WOTC comes out and announces no change to the 3.5 and 5e OGL. My gaming group has agreed to switch to Numenara or warhammer fantasy if wizards sticks to its path
As of today, with the full document available, and free to read. I am cancelling my sub to DnDB until that time which WotC Revokes any connection to the current wording of the OGL 1.1
edit: Changed vote to "Yes. As written, I cannot and will not, support a company that proposes this."
Do you have a link to the document that is on a hasbro WotC side or something like that?
Would really like to see the official document before deciding.
There is a copy you can read at ogl.battlezoo.com
Ah ok, thought there was something real official out there.
None the less will I go with what my players think on the matter. With 3 groups and about 20 people, I will not decide alone.
To claim this is mere conjecture makes me surprise that you can comprehend the DMG and PHB. There is no way that this leak is fake at this point. Even with the information being limited, what we have seen from Kickstarter and other influencers that have seen OGL 1.1 as well as WOTC's deafening silence on the matter. It is more likely than not that this is legit.
Also it doesn't matter if you're you prefer D&D over other systems. What matters is that you let them know even if you keep playing, you're not happy with their actions. If you are happy with their actions, I think you're a sad individual
The argument being made by wotc is that 1.0a is being deauthorized.
But there is point 14. Reformation: If any provision of this License is held to be unenforceable, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable.
Looks like the provision that is stopping 1.0a from continuing to be perpetually enforced is that one single word "authorized" located in point 9:
9. Updating the License: Wizards or its designated Agents may publish updated versions of this License. You may use any authorized version of this License to copy, modify and distribute any Open Game Content originally distributed under any version of this License.
A deauthorization process doesn't even appear in 1.0a so that word there is the only time the thing talks about authorized versions. Cutting that word out would be like snipping the sole remaining price tag from a shirt.
Well... 1.0a granted rights, and entities that received those rights would logically want to enforce those rights. Meaning, the third party contributors that received rights under 1.0a might want to enforce those rights. So, the minimum change required in order to ensure that the current third party license holders can continue to enforce their perpetually granted rights would be to remove that word from point 9.
The pure greed of Hasbro is unending. I buy tons of books and collect and paint minis. The quality of D&D books has been lacking the last few years. The saving grace has been the fantastic third party content produced by many excellent creators. So long to that and hello to micro transactions with low end effort in the near future. I've been wanting to try Pathfinder for some time anyways and have started reading the rules.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I will not financially support Wizards of the Coast if they attempt to revoke any previous OGL. #opendnd
Yeah? They most certainly CAN take control of CR. Critical Role has published scads of material under the OGL, as well as material published by Wizards itself. They would immediately switch systems, CHANGE CHARACTERS, and likely change Matt's entire campaign world. It's not as simple as it would be for a DM to just stop playing a game and switch to a different one. You're basically shrugging and ignoring the complexity of if... because you don't care.
It's not just them. Knights of the Old Republic was published under the OGL. Does that mean that Hasbro would own Darth Revan? That they could publish Star Wars KotR material against Disney's wishes and without a cut? To borrow a line I heard from someone... "They can certainly try." How about the Lord of the Rings 5e supplement, published under OGL. Care to take on the Tolkien estate, Hasbro? Or maybe Warner Bros/Discovery?
Well, we do care. Not just me, but countless other D&D players.
Why? What's to stop them? Under this new license they absolutely could. Absolutely legally. Oh, is it that CR is just to big and famous to seize? Hardly says much for the rest of us, the little people and the small press that published under the OGL. We're not Matt Mercer and company, so **** us? We're on our own.
You're not exactly making a devastating argument there.
I'd like to add this to the conversation to correct some misconceptions that have been posted so far:
1.) "It's all just rumor"...it definitely is NOT rumor. The updated OGL has been posted at ogl.battlezoo.com - the posted OGL matches what has been stated about it from the outset: it removes rights that 3rd Party content producers have relied upon for over 20 years and hands ownership of the content to WoTC. WoTC's own statements on the matter do not match what they were doing in discussions with 3rd Party content producers separately, notably that they "were still determining what form the OGL will take". Those that did reach out to WoTC in an effort to determine the changes to the OGL were provided copies that were in executable contracts. You don't provide executable contracts when you're still determining how things will change.
2.) "It doesn't affect me because I don't use 3rd party content" - you may want to reconsider that position, particularly if you subscribe to any Patreon content producers, like watching YouTube content that references D&D, or want to make use of any apps for character management, etc. It also is likely to affect VTTs that are currently available as WoTC produces their own VTT. Kickstarter product? That, too, is likely to shutdown entirely as the profit margins on these products aren't large enough to signing away 20% AND rights to the product.
3.) Even if you don't plan to use any 3rd party content and don't expect to in the future, you might consider another point of view: that of the people who've been contributing to our community for over 20 years. As we speak, WoTC/Hasbro have decided to take 25% of the profits AND ownership of the derivative works from people who've built a career around producing products for our hobby. These aren't just "big publishers", it'll affect small writers, artists, editors, etc as a great many of these jobs will be impacted by the decisions WoTC has made. What would your reaction be if someone suddenly eliminated your career?
4.) One final point: There have been statements published by Ryan Dancey, former VP of WoTC, who was directly involved in creation of the original OGL that it was specifically intended to be perpetual. WoTC's own statements on the matter from their FAQ in April of 2004 indicate that it was not intended to be revocable and the wording in the license suggests that multiple revisions were anticipated but that one would not invalidate another. If OGL was revocable, why did WoTC use a GSL for 4E? Why not simply revoke the OGL then?
It's disappointing to see WoTC and Hasbro taking these steps...while I'm not particularly hopeful about the future, I hold out hope that community pressure may yet encourage them to reverse course.
#OpenDND - opendnd.games
The writing is on the wall. Even if they walk it back, this is the plan long term. Kick out 3rd parties and create a walled garden for micro transactions like in video games. These terms are horrible. Who would sign? Whatever you spend money on to create we can take when we feel like it. Also we can change the contract and monetary agreements whenever we want.
There is nothing open about this license. This is a brand new license trying to use the old one's name. By doing this they are trying to use a loophole to eliminate 1.0. 1.0 was supposed to be perpetual so they need to find a way to erase it. Instead of people signing up for 6th edition on it's own merits, they are trying to burn everything else down so they're no options. I'm so grateful there's so many other systems to jump to.
This sucks because I really like using DDB. Sadly though, I'm downloading my characters and logging out of DDB now. I'll monitor the situation and if (when it's actually released) the OGL 1.1 is anything like as onerous to independent third party creators/artists/community members (big and small) then I will very regrettably have no choice but to cancel my DDB subscription which I have held since launch. No way I support this predatory type of corporate behaviour. I'm a shareholder of Hasbro as well and will be exiting that if this situation does not U-turn.
Where will I end up? Probably not 5e, and certainly not One D&D (which in light of current knowledge sounds more and more Lawful Evil - 'the ONE game to rule them all' than ever) ! For me it is older pre-WotC versions of the game.... AD&D... and OSR stuff, and most likely new games that don't have any reliance on OGL/SRD. Kobold and Paizo and others will need a lot of consumer support and I'm ready to send my dollars their way to help with the legal expenses they will no doubt incur.
I play at my local game shops on each Weds and we always log in so that WotC can track who is playing what at which retailer. Won't be doing that anymore....our game will move to the DM's garage and we are going pen and paper all out.
I do all this with a heavy heart and whether people agree or not I'm following my conscience. Have no ill will to folks who decide to keep on keeping on with WotC products irrespective of what they do... We all need to chart our own courses in life.
#OpenD&D
---
Don't be Lawful Evil
I will be doing exactly this as well. I have zero interest in supporting a company that would go this far to exercise their power for greed. I will also be spreading the word to my entire community to show what hasbro has done.
I genuinely hope hasbro will reconsider the direction they have taken and instead of wiping away the 1.0 license, strengthen it instead. It will do more for their brand to continue supporting the community that has brought them their success.
The fact that Wizards/Hasbro has waited so long and still has not communicated about this situation is telling. The owner of Kickstarter has come out and pretty much stated the leaked document is true. If OGL 1.1 goes forward as written as per leak I and my players are done. I've already cancelled $300 worth of preorders from wotc and WizKids. The news from WOTC determines if you get my $60 for dm subscription here. I started DND under first ed ad&d but player many other systems. I'm not scared to take my money elsewhere.... I did in fourth edition.
"You can try...Roll for it"
Chris Ellis
EllisOFChaos
Player since 1986 DM Since 1988
I realize that I have been supporting the wrong side from the very beginning. WotC is in the wrong, and if this keeps up, I plan to terminate any purchases regarding onednd, or WotC in general.
I uses to be dndlover_2.
As of today, with the full document available, and free to read. I am cancelling my sub to DnDB until that time which WotC Revokes any connection to the current wording of the OGL 1.1
edit: Changed vote to "Yes. As written, I cannot and will not, support a company that proposes this."
I cancelled my subscriber today. It's still good until September since I paid for a year but once I finish the current game I'm DMing I'm switching over to another system. I owned about a dozen hardcover 5E books and probably 8-10 books on DND Beyond but I'm done with DND and will be moving my game to another system.
I just cancelled my subscription and don't plan to renew unless significant changes are made. Yo ho ho.
Do you have a link to the document that is on a hasbro WotC side or something like that?
Would really like to see the official document before deciding.
Wizards has not made it available to the public yet (it was send out under NDA to third party content creators). The document did leak and is one of the top posts over on the DNDNext subreddit right now:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/
There is a copy you can read at ogl.battlezoo.com
#OpenDND - opendnd.games
Don’t forget that the D&D movie is coming out in less than 3 months. It’s an easy way to vote with your wallet by not seeing it in theaters unless WOTC comes out and announces no change to the 3.5 and 5e OGL. My gaming group has agreed to switch to Numenara or warhammer fantasy if wizards sticks to its path
Ah ok, thought there was something real official out there.
None the less will I go with what my players think on the matter. With 3 groups and about 20 people, I will not decide alone.
To claim this is mere conjecture makes me surprise that you can comprehend the DMG and PHB. There is no way that this leak is fake at this point. Even with the information being limited, what we have seen from Kickstarter and other influencers that have seen OGL 1.1 as well as WOTC's deafening silence on the matter. It is more likely than not that this is legit.
Also it doesn't matter if you're you prefer D&D over other systems. What matters is that you let them know even if you keep playing, you're not happy with their actions. If you are happy with their actions, I think you're a sad individual
The Scorned One
The argument being made by wotc is that 1.0a is being deauthorized.
But there is point 14. Reformation: If any provision of this License is held to be unenforceable, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable.
Looks like the provision that is stopping 1.0a from continuing to be perpetually enforced is that one single word "authorized" located in point 9:
9. Updating the License: Wizards or its designated Agents may publish updated versions of this License. You may use any authorized version of this License to copy, modify and distribute any Open Game Content originally distributed under any version of this License.
A deauthorization process doesn't even appear in 1.0a so that word there is the only time the thing talks about authorized versions. Cutting that word out would be like snipping the sole remaining price tag from a shirt.
Well... 1.0a granted rights, and entities that received those rights would logically want to enforce those rights. Meaning, the third party contributors that received rights under 1.0a might want to enforce those rights. So, the minimum change required in order to ensure that the current third party license holders can continue to enforce their perpetually granted rights would be to remove that word from point 9.
The text of the 1.0a https://opengamingfoundation.org/ogl.html The text of 1.0a
The pure greed of Hasbro is unending. I buy tons of books and collect and paint minis. The quality of D&D books has been lacking the last few years. The saving grace has been the fantastic third party content produced by many excellent creators. So long to that and hello to micro transactions with low end effort in the near future. I've been wanting to try Pathfinder for some time anyways and have started reading the rules.