It’s terrible. From the very premise. A top max security prison holding the very worst and most dangerous prisoners in the world… suitable for 4th level characters. Come on really? Does that sound even remotely plausible?
It’s terrible. From the very premise. A top max security prison holding the very worst and most dangerous prisoners in the world… suitable for 4th level characters. Come on really? Does that sound even remotely plausible?
I don't think Revel's End is meant to be as secure as you're making out. Prisoner 13 describes it as
....an impenetrable fortress built to house the region’s most dangerous criminals
While Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frost Maiden describes it more as a political prison:
To be imprisoned in Revel’s End, one must have committed a serious crime against one or more members of the alliance and been sentenced to a lengthy period of incarceration (typically a year or more). Moreover, the offender must have political connections that make incarceration in another facility less dependable. Captured spies, for example, are often brought here to cool their heels.
From the descriptions of the prison, it seems the security comes primarily from it's isolated location (being on the far northern coast of Icewind Dale) and it's panopticon design.
I think that it's reasonable that a party of 4th level characters (keeping in mind that 1st level is the start of a character being exceptional) would be able to infiltrate this prison and not completely beyond belief.
I thought it was a great adventure! And there’s a cool twist once you finally make contact with Prisoner 13 that I won’t reveal just in case any of you guys haven’t read it yet. It really makes me look forward to the rest of Keys from the Golden Vault, which comes out tomorrow on DDB. Yay!!!
Not bad. Having the clients set up such solid cover identities so easily does a lot of the players' work for them, but for the sake of hurrying the oneshot along to the actual main "heist" part, it makes sense. What I'm a bit fuzzy on is why the clients can't negotiate with the Lords' Alliance for legitimate access to the prisoner, other than "because there wouldn't be a plot."
And yeah, for specifically a prison (containing the worst criminals of... one fairly remote and sparsely populated region) that gains a lot of security from isolation and the antimagic fields over the cells (which doesn't necessarily hinder the players but does hinder prisoners), I don't think the level is out of order. Especially coming from a big anthology where they probably need to cover a span of levels. Plus, the prison is built and guarded by normal humans (or equivalent); it'd be weird if they were really all that much tougher than this. And it's a heist, not a dungeon (or, uh, it is a dungeon, but not that kind of dungeon); it'd probably take a more powerful party to try a frontal assault than it would to just sneak in and out.
What I'm a bit fuzzy on is why the clients can't negotiate with the Lords' Alliance for legitimate access to the prisoner, other than "because there wouldn't be a plot."
I think the implication is that the dwarves would rather tell as few people as possible that they got ripped off/can't currently access a big portion of their remaining wealth
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
As someone who wrote in a prison break in the epilogue of a “Rime of the Frostmaiden” campaign, I was amused to find this little adventure.
It was good; I like this secret organization known as the Golden Vault that operates through shady dealings while still upholding a code of honor…preventing some of the, ah…more murderous habits of a token party.
I particularly liked some of the descriptions of the prisoners that are currently occupying Revel’s End…I had written a dozen dangerous prisoners being held inside Revel’s End in my own campaign, and it was nice to get brief descriptions of a few more: a chaotic evil tiefling named “Pirouette” stands out as a curious name you could expand on…makes me think of a dangerous rogue or bard.
“Prisoner 13” is probably the standout here…they have really interesting abilities, and I particularly enjoy their design.
In fact, Prisoner 13’s mechanics expanded upon an idea that had been released previously in “Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything”, and it makes me wonder if those mechanics will be pushed even further, possibly as a player option (who knows).
There was enough here to catch my interest; I am looking forward to seeing what else the book has to offer.
It’s terrible. From the very premise. A top max security prison holding the very worst and most dangerous prisoners in the world… suitable for 4th level characters. Come on really? Does that sound even remotely plausible?
Not only does this sound plausible, it actually is quite common throughout history. A really good prison is expensive to build, and keeping it staffed only furthers the expense. One way to cut costs while still making the prison itself secure is to locate the prison somewhere that discourages running away - put a prison in the middle of a frozen wasteland and tell your prisoners “even if you did try to escape, there’s no way you’ll be able to secret yourself out of here with the food, travel supplies, and warm clothing necessary to survive - let alone if you could even find your way to civilisation from such a remote place where blizzards are common and it would be easy to lose your way.”
Now, add to that remote place the fact that they’re probably not going to get the best guards to volunteer for “freeze your butt off far from your family duty.”
Could it have been a higher level campaign? Sure, but that could be said about pretty much every campaign. Does “prison in the middle of nowhere might rely more on its location than actual security and might not have the cream of the crop guarding it—just like has happened in the real world” work as a sufficient justification for the campaign to work with level four characters? Also yes.
I really liked that they made the Golden Vault a heroic organization.
"fantasy Mission Impossible team" is a pretty nifty idea, although if I used any of these in my homebrew campaign it would probably end up more like "fantasy Charlie's Angels"
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I really liked that they made the Golden Vault a heroic organization.
"fantasy Mission Impossible team" is a pretty nifty idea, although if I used any of these in my homebrew campaign it would probably end up more like "fantasy Charlie's Angels"
Every party of mine becomes becomes fantasy headless chickens.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Strange. Not built yet? Seems like it's intentional though, there's a guardhouse still there that isn't attached in P13 but is attached to the additional courtyard in RotFM. I haven't read it in-depth, so it's possible the adventure explains it.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I have a question! Under the "Prison Features" section it reads:
"Doors and Hatches. Each door and rooftop hatch is made of reinforced iron held shut by an arcane lock spell. Prison personnel can open these doors and hatches normally."
So if the PCs are disguised as cooks/guards, and are therefore considered personnel, can they open all the doors/hatches? Or are they the only ones who CAN'T open the doors and hatches, and that creates suspicion?
I have a question! Under the "Prison Features" section it reads:
"Doors and Hatches. Each door and rooftop hatch is made of reinforced iron held shut by an arcane lock spell. Prison personnel can open these doors and hatches normally."
So if the PCs are disguised as cooks/guards, and are therefore considered personnel, can they open all the doors/hatches? Or are they the only ones who CAN'T open the doors and hatches, and that creates suspicion?
Arcane Lock’s rules text answers this question. There are two ways to open a door locked with an Arcane Lock - you can designate certain creatures be able to open the lock as the spell is cast and/or you can set a password.
Putting on a disguise does not provide either of those. Unless your characters were present at the designation, their uniforms alone will not grant them access. Additionally, it will not give them the password. As such, disguises alone are going to be insufficient—they’ll have to try and find the password or try to figure out another way in if the creator of the Arcane Lock choose to use only creature designation without a password (which would be the more secure option).
This part is really weird to me too. I am about to run it. It seems odd that they would allow anyone who works there to open every door. It seems that would include cells. Why would a cook have access to every area of a prison? Not sure how to run it. I think I'll just make it so guards are keyed to certain rooms, and cooks to certain rooms. This may make the party choose different roles when they take the mission initially.
The question I’m curious about is, how easily would a party of four lv10 adventures be able to defeat all 75 veteran guards in this setting? You’d only have 8-16 at first from how it’s worded with more each round but eventually the 50 veterans that are in the barracks and recreation area will be armored and headed your way alongside the Warden.
So, with a party of four adventures what would you say is the minimal level required to forcefully break into this prison and subdue all of the guards and take control of the prison?
(I know it says the golden vault doesn’t approve of such tactics but I’m curious for home brew reasons)
Too many variables to give that a proper but veterans have 58 HP a pop. That means you're trying to clear out 4350 HP worth of veterans plus the captain. Unless you can lock most of them in a single room with a Cloudkill or similar damage over time effect, even a party of 10th level adventurers is probably going to be eventually overwhelmed.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I have no idea what minimum level would be needed to defeat 75 veterans, but if my players wanted to attempt that, I'd do whatever I could to help them because it would be fun to watch that unfold. They'd need a lot of planning and luck, and if they aren't smart about it, I'd have no problem with a TPK.
- When the party first travels to the prison at the start of the adventure, they are sailing along with up to 1/3rd of the prison staff (as many as 25 veterans total). They could start poisoning the guards while on board the ship, or plot some other dastardly deeds. Perhaps there is a harpy attack or other sea-worthy encounter which injures or kills some of the veterans before even reaching the prison to start their shift.
- The prison includes a kitchen and a hospital. Certainly some rat poison or other potentially harmfull substances can be found in these locations if the party didn't think of it ahead of time. The PCs can take the role of cooks, so they would have easy access to poison people.
- Consider adding a ventilation shaft (hewn from the stone, obviously) in the ceiling above the main floor of the prison, accessible via one of the stock rooms near the kitchen. This could give a member of the party easier access to certain areas.
- Assuming the prison has 3 rotating shifts of veterans, during each of the 3 shifts, 1/3rd of veterans will be on duty around the prison, 1/3rd will be sleeping in the barracks, and 1/3rd will be relaxing in the mess hall or courtyard during down time. The party can use that to their advantage.
- Some of the prison staff may be unhappy employees. If the party has gold, influence, or other means, perhaps they can turn some of the veterans to their side to help with the slaughter. The veterans guarding the prison can't ALL be honorable men, can they?
- The warden has a weakness. No reason she can't be in her "dwarf possessed" state when things go down. Heck, if the party tells her they are working for a clan of dwarves, perhaps her possessor might even chip in and help their cause.
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I just finished reading through it, and I think it's a pretty cool little adventure.
But what do you think?
(edit: There may be spoilers here, so read at your own risk!)
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It’s terrible. From the very premise. A top max security prison holding the very worst and most dangerous prisoners in the world… suitable for 4th level characters. Come on really? Does that sound even remotely plausible?
I don't think Revel's End is meant to be as secure as you're making out. Prisoner 13 describes it as
While Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frost Maiden describes it more as a political prison:
From the descriptions of the prison, it seems the security comes primarily from it's isolated location (being on the far northern coast of Icewind Dale) and it's panopticon design.
I think that it's reasonable that a party of 4th level characters (keeping in mind that 1st level is the start of a character being exceptional) would be able to infiltrate this prison and not completely beyond belief.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I thought it was a great adventure! And there’s a cool twist once you finally make contact with Prisoner 13 that I won’t reveal just in case any of you guys haven’t read it yet. It really makes me look forward to the rest of Keys from the Golden Vault, which comes out tomorrow on DDB. Yay!!!
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
Not bad. Having the clients set up such solid cover identities so easily does a lot of the players' work for them, but for the sake of hurrying the oneshot along to the actual main "heist" part, it makes sense. What I'm a bit fuzzy on is why the clients can't negotiate with the Lords' Alliance for legitimate access to the prisoner, other than "because there wouldn't be a plot."
And yeah, for specifically a prison (containing the worst criminals of... one fairly remote and sparsely populated region) that gains a lot of security from isolation and the antimagic fields over the cells (which doesn't necessarily hinder the players but does hinder prisoners), I don't think the level is out of order. Especially coming from a big anthology where they probably need to cover a span of levels. Plus, the prison is built and guarded by normal humans (or equivalent); it'd be weird if they were really all that much tougher than this. And it's a heist, not a dungeon (or, uh, it is a dungeon, but not that kind of dungeon); it'd probably take a more powerful party to try a frontal assault than it would to just sneak in and out.
Medium humanoid (human), lawful neutral
I think the implication is that the dwarves would rather tell as few people as possible that they got ripped off/can't currently access a big portion of their remaining wealth
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
As someone who wrote in a prison break in the epilogue of a “Rime of the Frostmaiden” campaign, I was amused to find this little adventure.
It was good; I like this secret organization known as the Golden Vault that operates through shady dealings while still upholding a code of honor…preventing some of the, ah…more murderous habits of a token party.
I particularly liked some of the descriptions of the prisoners that are currently occupying Revel’s End…I had written a dozen dangerous prisoners being held inside Revel’s End in my own campaign, and it was nice to get brief descriptions of a few more: a chaotic evil tiefling named “Pirouette” stands out as a curious name you could expand on…makes me think of a dangerous rogue or bard.
“Prisoner 13” is probably the standout here…they have really interesting abilities, and I particularly enjoy their design.
In fact, Prisoner 13’s mechanics expanded upon an idea that had been released previously in “Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything”, and it makes me wonder if those mechanics will be pushed even further, possibly as a player option (who knows).
There was enough here to catch my interest; I am looking forward to seeing what else the book has to offer.
I really liked that they made the Golden Vault a heroic organization.
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
Not only does this sound plausible, it actually is quite common throughout history. A really good prison is expensive to build, and keeping it staffed only furthers the expense. One way to cut costs while still making the prison itself secure is to locate the prison somewhere that discourages running away - put a prison in the middle of a frozen wasteland and tell your prisoners “even if you did try to escape, there’s no way you’ll be able to secret yourself out of here with the food, travel supplies, and warm clothing necessary to survive - let alone if you could even find your way to civilisation from such a remote place where blizzards are common and it would be easy to lose your way.”
Now, add to that remote place the fact that they’re probably not going to get the best guards to volunteer for “freeze your butt off far from your family duty.”
Could it have been a higher level campaign? Sure, but that could be said about pretty much every campaign. Does “prison in the middle of nowhere might rely more on its location than actual security and might not have the cream of the crop guarding it—just like has happened in the real world” work as a sufficient justification for the campaign to work with level four characters? Also yes.
"fantasy Mission Impossible team" is a pretty nifty idea, although if I used any of these in my homebrew campaign it would probably end up more like "fantasy Charlie's Angels"
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Every party of mine becomes becomes fantasy headless chickens.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I was wondering why the prison map has 1 courtyard vs the 2 courtyards in (Ice Wind Dale)?
Strange. Not built yet? Seems like it's intentional though, there's a guardhouse still there that isn't attached in P13 but is attached to the additional courtyard in RotFM. I haven't read it in-depth, so it's possible the adventure explains it.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I have a question! Under the "Prison Features" section it reads:
"Doors and Hatches. Each door and rooftop hatch is made of reinforced iron held shut by an arcane lock spell. Prison personnel can open these doors and hatches normally."
So if the PCs are disguised as cooks/guards, and are therefore considered personnel, can they open all the doors/hatches? Or are they the only ones who CAN'T open the doors and hatches, and that creates suspicion?
I'm not entirely sure. DM's discretion??
⌜╔═════════════ The Board ══════════════╗⌝
...and started me on my way into my next chapter in life...
⌞╚════════════ Extended Signature ════════════╝⌟
Arcane Lock’s rules text answers this question. There are two ways to open a door locked with an Arcane Lock - you can designate certain creatures be able to open the lock as the spell is cast and/or you can set a password.
Putting on a disguise does not provide either of those. Unless your characters were present at the designation, their uniforms alone will not grant them access. Additionally, it will not give them the password. As such, disguises alone are going to be insufficient—they’ll have to try and find the password or try to figure out another way in if the creator of the Arcane Lock choose to use only creature designation without a password (which would be the more secure option).
This part is really weird to me too. I am about to run it. It seems odd that they would allow anyone who works there to open every door. It seems that would include cells. Why would a cook have access to every area of a prison? Not sure how to run it. I think I'll just make it so guards are keyed to certain rooms, and cooks to certain rooms. This may make the party choose different roles when they take the mission initially.
The question I’m curious about is, how easily would a party of four lv10 adventures be able to defeat all 75 veteran guards in this setting? You’d only have 8-16 at first from how it’s worded with more each round but eventually the 50 veterans that are in the barracks and recreation area will be armored and headed your way alongside the Warden.
So, with a party of four adventures what would you say is the minimal level required to forcefully break into this prison and subdue all of the guards and take control of the prison?
(I know it says the golden vault doesn’t approve of such tactics but I’m curious for home brew reasons)
Too many variables to give that a proper but veterans have 58 HP a pop. That means you're trying to clear out 4350 HP worth of veterans plus the captain. Unless you can lock most of them in a single room with a Cloudkill or similar damage over time effect, even a party of 10th level adventurers is probably going to be eventually overwhelmed.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I have no idea what minimum level would be needed to defeat 75 veterans, but if my players wanted to attempt that, I'd do whatever I could to help them because it would be fun to watch that unfold. They'd need a lot of planning and luck, and if they aren't smart about it, I'd have no problem with a TPK.
- When the party first travels to the prison at the start of the adventure, they are sailing along with up to 1/3rd of the prison staff (as many as 25 veterans total). They could start poisoning the guards while on board the ship, or plot some other dastardly deeds. Perhaps there is a harpy attack or other sea-worthy encounter which injures or kills some of the veterans before even reaching the prison to start their shift.
- The prison includes a kitchen and a hospital. Certainly some rat poison or other potentially harmfull substances can be found in these locations if the party didn't think of it ahead of time. The PCs can take the role of cooks, so they would have easy access to poison people.
- Consider adding a ventilation shaft (hewn from the stone, obviously) in the ceiling above the main floor of the prison, accessible via one of the stock rooms near the kitchen. This could give a member of the party easier access to certain areas.
- Assuming the prison has 3 rotating shifts of veterans, during each of the 3 shifts, 1/3rd of veterans will be on duty around the prison, 1/3rd will be sleeping in the barracks, and 1/3rd will be relaxing in the mess hall or courtyard during down time. The party can use that to their advantage.
- Some of the prison staff may be unhappy employees. If the party has gold, influence, or other means, perhaps they can turn some of the veterans to their side to help with the slaughter. The veterans guarding the prison can't ALL be honorable men, can they?
- The warden has a weakness. No reason she can't be in her "dwarf possessed" state when things go down. Heck, if the party tells her they are working for a clan of dwarves, perhaps her possessor might even chip in and help their cause.