Every edition update has been met with "**** YOU WE DON'T WANT IT", and with one notable exception under unusual circumstances that do not apply this time, every new edition has been significantly more successful than the last. One isn't even a new edition; it's a tune-up of 5e, designed to tighten up and smoothen out the ruleset after ten years of learning what works and what doesn't. Changes are opt-in. And yes, you might end up pressured by a table to opt intop changes you aren't fond of, but by the same token you might end up really liking changes but forced to opt out of them because your table's stubborn. It's gonna be a table-by-table negotiation when the One rules hit, which is as it should be.
I agree, though I will say that I expect the VTT to prioritize the 2024 updates over the 2014 versions. So long as there is a homebrew module of some kind, people can revert back to things like fixed ASIs or subclasses at 1st level if they prefer those, but I do expect it to be more difficult than simply using the 2024 rules.
But then, the same would be true of literally any other official updates/errata.
Yeah, official tools are going to prioritize the official ruleset. They kinda can't not do that - what is Wizards gonna do, make tools that don't work with core D&D to chase some random third-party book's flight-of-fancy deep alterations of the rules instead? The official company makes the official rules and is obligated to support them. But as DDB sorta kinda halfway shows, they know that keeping the tools flexible enough to accomodate as much homebrew as they can is a deal-maker for a lot of folks. They'll be trying to preserve that in their schmancy new VTT
Yeah, official tools are going to prioritize the official ruleset. They kinda can't not do that - what is Wizards gonna do, make tools that don't work with core D&D to chase some random third-party book's flight-of-fancy deep alterations of the rules instead? The official company makes the official rules and is obligated to support them. But as DDB sorta kinda halfway shows, they know that keeping the tools flexible enough to accomodate as much homebrew as they can is a deal-maker for a lot of folks. They'll be trying to preserve that in their schmancy new VTT
It's common sense to you and to me, but I'm already anticipating the firestorm when people realize getting back to their 2014 versions will require jumping through a few hoops. "MUH BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE???"
I’m interested to see what kinda support we get for us folks who don’t intend to use their VTT.
I think there is good cause to question what kind of support users of other VTTs might get moving forward. That could really go either way. On one hand they very well might keep their connections with Role20 and such because they know those entities will continue to function in some manner, and they might as well try to keep the revenue streams (especially if they think they offer a better product, so can win long term without alienating players first). On other other, they might try to curtail some of those connections in an effort to push more people onto their platform. Really no way of knowing what might happen at this time--not enough data.
For people that play physically, the idea that Wizards is going to try and push the VTT and ignore tabletop borders on conspiratorial nonsense derived from a complete suspension of common sense. It would be economic suicide to cut off support for the largest portion of their playerbase, their oldest player base, the form of play that is immediately recognizable to the general non-gamer population and whose recognition forms their primary player acquisition mechanism, to miss out on all that sweet, sweet WizKids licensing money, etc. It would be a disaster that would make the OGL crisis look like a stubbed toe, and even the most brain dead, out of touch executives would be able to see that problem coming from a mile off.
I’m interested to see what kinda support we get for us folks who don’t intend to use their VTT.
You mean the dead tree editions that they'll surely keep printing? What more "support" were you looking for than that?
No, not dead trees. I only buy digital, but I also don’t plan to use any VTT. I don’t care for them, they’re never as good as my imagination, kinda like how movies ruin books. Wat I want to know is:
Will DDB still support homebrew that isn’t for their VTT?
Will DDB still develop their combat tracker as separate from their VTT?
Will I have a problem using my character sheets as separate from their VTT?
Will I still be able to use this site in general without using their gorram VTT?
I’m interested to see what kinda support we get for us folks who don’t intend to use their VTT.
You mean the dead tree editions that they'll surely keep printing? What more "support" were you looking for than that?
No, not dead trees. I only buy digital, but I also don’t plan to use any VTT. I don’t care for them, they’re never as good as my imagination, kinda like how movies ruin books. Wat I want to know is:
Will DDB still support homebrew that isn’t for their VTT?
Will DDB still develop their combat tracker as separate from their VTT?
Will I have a problem using my character sheets as separate from their VTT?
Will I still be able to use this site in general without using their gorram VTT?
1) The plan is yes. Whether homebrew in their VTT is possible right when it releases is an open question.
2) Why? If you're using a different VTT or meatspace there are many other tools for that.
3) No, that functionality exists today so I don't see it going anywhere.
4) Yes, that functionality exists today so I don't see it going anywhere.
I’m interested to see what kinda support we get for us folks who don’t intend to use their VTT.
You mean the dead tree editions that they'll surely keep printing? What more "support" were you looking for than that?
No, not dead trees. I only buy digital, but I also don’t plan to use any VTT. I don’t care for them, they’re never as good as my imagination, kinda like how movies ruin books. Wat I want to know is:
Will DDB still support homebrew that isn’t for their VTT?
Will DDB still develop their combat tracker as separate from their VTT?
Will I have a problem using my character sheets as separate from their VTT?
Will I still be able to use this site in general without using their gorram VTT?
1) The plan is yes. Whether homebrew in their VTT is possible right when it releases is an open question.
2) Why? If you're using a different VTT or meatspace there are many other tools for that.
3) No, that functionality exists today so I don't see it going anywhere.
4) Yes, that functionality exists today so I don't see it going anywhere.
2) Because it’s conveniently integrated into this site which I use to plan my encounters since all the monsters are here because this is where I buy my books. I don’t use another VTT, as I said, I don’t like them. And why do something on paper if I can do it all digitally integrated into the same system where I purchase my content.
No, not dead trees. I only buy digital, but I also don’t plan to use any VTT. I don’t care for them, they’re never as good as my imagination, kinda like how movies ruin books. Wat I want to know is:
Will DDB still support homebrew that isn’t for their VTT?
Will DDB still develop their combat tracker as separate from their VTT?
Will I have a problem using my character sheets as separate from their VTT?
Will I still be able to use this site in general without using their gorram VTT?
Given that they talked about importing things from DDB, I would expect existing functionality to remain intact. My expectations on them doing more development on game tools (like the combat tracker) is lower, but that's independent of the VTT, I think that's been being de-prioritized for a long time.
No, not dead trees. I only buy digital, but I also don’t plan to use any VTT. I don’t care for them, they’re never as good as my imagination, kinda like how movies ruin books. Wat I want to know is:
Will DDB still support homebrew that isn’t for their VTT?
Will DDB still develop their combat tracker as separate from their VTT?
Will I have a problem using my character sheets as separate from their VTT?
Will I still be able to use this site in general without using their gorram VTT?
Given that they talked about importing things from DDB, I would expect existing functionality to remain intact. My expectations on them doing more development on game tools (like the combat tracker) is lower, but that's independent of the VTT, I think that's been being de-prioritized for a long time.
I know, and it irks me. I really wish they would put more development into the DM’s side of things around here.
No, not dead trees. I only buy digital, but I also don’t plan to use any VTT. I don’t care for them, they’re never as good as my imagination, kinda like how movies ruin books. Wat I want to know is:
Will DDB still support homebrew that isn’t for their VTT?
Will DDB still develop their combat tracker as separate from their VTT?
Will I have a problem using my character sheets as separate from their VTT?
Will I still be able to use this site in general without using their gorram VTT?
1) The plan is yes. Whether homebrew in their VTT is possible right when it releases is an open question.
2) Why? If you're using a different VTT or meatspace there are many other tools for that.
3) No, that functionality exists today so I don't see it going anywhere.
4) Yes, that functionality exists today so I don't see it going anywhere.
2) Because it’s conveniently integrated into this site which I use to plan my encounters since all the monsters are here because this is where I buy my books. I don’t use another VTT, as I said, I don’t like them. And why do something on paper if I can do it all digitally integrated into the same system where I purchase my content.
If they do the combat tracker separately I certainly won't lose sleep over that, but their priority should be getting the VTT to work before they start carving out bits and pieces of it to be standalone apps.
No, not dead trees. I only buy digital, but I also don’t plan to use any VTT. I don’t care for them, they’re never as good as my imagination, kinda like how movies ruin books. Wat I want to know is:
Will DDB still support homebrew that isn’t for their VTT?
Will DDB still develop their combat tracker as separate from their VTT?
Will I have a problem using my character sheets as separate from their VTT?
Will I still be able to use this site in general without using their gorram VTT?
1) The plan is yes. Whether homebrew in their VTT is possible right when it releases is an open question.
2) Why? If you're using a different VTT or meatspace there are many other tools for that.
3) No, that functionality exists today so I don't see it going anywhere.
4) Yes, that functionality exists today so I don't see it going anywhere.
2) Because it’s conveniently integrated into this site which I use to plan my encounters since all the monsters are here because this is where I buy my books. I don’t use another VTT, as I said, I don’t like them. And why do something on paper if I can do it all digitally integrated into the same system where I purchase my content.
If they do the combat tracker separately I certainly won't lose sleep over that, but their priority should be getting the VTT to work before they start carving out bits and pieces of it to be standalone apps.
Why?!? Why should they prioritize the VTT?!? What makes that any more important than non VTT development?
Why?!? Why should they prioritize the VTT?!? What makes that any more important than non VTT development?
It was the centerpiece of both the most recent D&D Direct as well as the OneD&D announcement itself. It's importance to their upcoming strategy is undeniable.
As for why, they discussed this along with their "three pillars" - Fun/Convenience/Authenticity. No other VTT on the market, in their view, adequately delivers on all three, so they see the opportunity for a strong competitive advantage here. And that will give them a direct means to address the biggest weakness they see in the hobby right now, i.e. getting more people to transition from being players to being DMs.
Why?!? Why should they prioritize the VTT?!? What makes that any more important than non VTT development?
Pretty sure DDB is grouped under digital publishing, not digital gaming, which means they're focused on making it a convenient reference platform. DM tools on DDB aren't being deprioritized because of the VTT, they're being deprioritized because they aren't part of their vision as to what the site is for.
I'd think the DM tools would become more robust because of the VTT. if they're expecting people to play online, having things like a combat tracker integrated in the VTT is obviously something to include. I think the question is how tightly integrated they will be. Will you need to use the VTT to use the tools they develop for it, or will thhey be more modular where some tools can be used without the VTT? Or will you have to kit bash something like run a VTT session, but not actually do anything, just keep it open and use the game tools without moving around the virtual tokens. I guess we'll find out next year.
Why?!? Why should they prioritize the VTT?!? What makes that any more important than non VTT development?
It was the centerpiece of both the most recent D&D Direct as well as the OneD&D announcement itself. It's importance to their upcoming strategy is undeniable.
As for why, they discussed this along with their "three pillars" - Fun/Convenience/Authenticity. No other VTT on the market, in their view, adequately delivers on all three, so they see the opportunity for a strong competitive advantage here. And that will give them a direct means to address the biggest weakness they see in the hobby right now, i.e. getting more people to transition from being players to being DMs.
None of which answers my question as to why that should take priority over development of DM’s tools for no -VTT users. This website was originally built to support in-person games around a tabletop. It’s actually in DDB’s mission to support TTD&D. The Combat Tracker is part of that.
Why?!? Why should they prioritize the VTT?!? What makes that any more important than non VTT development?
Pretty sure DDB is grouped under digital publishing, not digital gaming, which means they're focused on making it a convenient reference platform. DM tools on DDB aren't being deprioritized because of the VTT, they're being deprioritized because they aren't part of their vision as to what the site is for.
I'd think the DM tools would become more robust because of the VTT. if they're expecting people to play online, having things like a combat tracker integrated in the VTT is obviously something to include. I think the question is how tightly integrated they will be. Will you need to use the VTT to use the tools they develop for it, or will thhey be more modular where some tools can be used without the VTT? Or will you have to kit bash something like run a VTT session, but not actually do anything, just keep it open and use the game tools without moving around the virtual tokens. I guess we'll find out next year.
That’s exactly the stuff I’m wondering about. Exactly.
Why?!? Why should they prioritize the VTT?!? What makes that any more important than non VTT development?
It was the centerpiece of both the most recent D&D Direct as well as the OneD&D announcement itself. It's importance to their upcoming strategy is undeniable.
As for why, they discussed this along with their "three pillars" - Fun/Convenience/Authenticity. No other VTT on the market, in their view, adequately delivers on all three, so they see the opportunity for a strong competitive advantage here. And that will give them a direct means to address the biggest weakness they see in the hobby right now, i.e. getting more people to transition from being players to being DMs.
None of which answers my question as to why that should take priority over development of DM’s tools for no -VTT users. This website was originally built to support in-person games around a tabletop. It’s actually in DDB’s mission to support TTD&D. The Combat Tracker is part of that.
Can you be specific about what functionality the site will be losing then? There is no DDB combat tracker now. You'll be able to use DDB at your physical tables the way you do now. You'll still be getting what you're paying for now. What exactly is the issue? Did an employee promise you a combat tracker in writing or something?
Can you be specific about what functionality the site will be losing then? There is no DDB combat tracker now. You'll be able to use DDB at your physical tables the way you do now. You'll still be getting what you're paying for now. What exactly is the issue? Did an employee promise you a combat tracker in writing or something?
There was a Combat Tracker available as an alpha release for subscribers for a time. There was much written and video recorded discussion between the Dev team and community on the development and intention to introduce that Combat Tracker (search "Combat Tracker" in the forums specifying the Announcements subforum). Sposta is right that prior to WotC's purchase of D&D Beyond, DDB was initially conceived of as a non virtual tabletop aid, it really didn't push online usage until Covid. A VTT was "possible" but seemed to be something DDB wouldn't venture into and there are OGL-gate conspiracy allegations as to why, but prior to the WotC purchase many DDB users were looking forward to a more robust encounter builder and a Combat Tracker going into Beta.
It seems clear that WotC will be publishing the physical game, but it's still trying to figure out how to best present the digital offerings in parallel to the revised core books. Whether that means DDB as we know it and VTT as two separate compartments accessible here at "D&D central" or some thing where we have to push aside prompts to try out VTT features when we just want DDB as we know it is something that's unclear now and will be clarified in the future.
I know this doesn't really contribute to the conversation directly, but just gonna say for me personally, a VTT will do next to nothing to get me more financially involved in DDB. In fact, I'm pretty sure it would of basically zero use to me beyond as a novelty occasionally...A properly developed combat tracker would actually be very helpful.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Why?!? Why should they prioritize the VTT?!? What makes that any more important than non VTT development?
It was the centerpiece of both the most recent D&D Direct as well as the OneD&D announcement itself. It's importance to their upcoming strategy is undeniable.
As for why, they discussed this along with their "three pillars" - Fun/Convenience/Authenticity. No other VTT on the market, in their view, adequately delivers on all three, so they see the opportunity for a strong competitive advantage here. And that will give them a direct means to address the biggest weakness they see in the hobby right now, i.e. getting more people to transition from being players to being DMs.
None of which answers my question as to why that should take priority over development of DM’s tools for no -VTT users. This website was originally built to support in-person games around a tabletop. It’s actually in DDB’s mission to support TTD&D. The Combat Tracker is part of that.
Can you be specific about what functionality the site will be losing then? There is no DDB combat tracker now. You'll be able to use DDB at your physical tables the way you do now. You'll still be getting what you're paying for now. What exactly is the issue? Did an employee promise you a combat tracker in writing or something?
Uhh…. I don’t believe you know quite exactly what you’re talking about. I guess pictures of it didn’t happen…?
What’s that say? Does that say “Combat Tracker?” I believe it does.
I agree, though I will say that I expect the VTT to prioritize the 2024 updates over the 2014 versions. So long as there is a homebrew module of some kind, people can revert back to things like fixed ASIs or subclasses at 1st level if they prefer those, but I do expect it to be more difficult than simply using the 2024 rules.
But then, the same would be true of literally any other official updates/errata.
Yeah, official tools are going to prioritize the official ruleset. They kinda can't not do that - what is Wizards gonna do, make tools that don't work with core D&D to chase some random third-party book's flight-of-fancy deep alterations of the rules instead? The official company makes the official rules and is obligated to support them. But as DDB sorta kinda halfway shows, they know that keeping the tools flexible enough to accomodate as much homebrew as they can is a deal-maker for a lot of folks. They'll be trying to preserve that in their schmancy new VTT
Please do not contact or message me.
I’m interested to see what kinda support we get for us folks who don’t intend to use their VTT.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
It's common sense to you and to me, but I'm already anticipating the firestorm when people realize getting back to their 2014 versions will require jumping through a few hoops. "MUH BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE???"
You mean the dead tree editions that they'll surely keep printing? What more "support" were you looking for than that?
I think there is good cause to question what kind of support users of other VTTs might get moving forward. That could really go either way. On one hand they very well might keep their connections with Role20 and such because they know those entities will continue to function in some manner, and they might as well try to keep the revenue streams (especially if they think they offer a better product, so can win long term without alienating players first). On other other, they might try to curtail some of those connections in an effort to push more people onto their platform. Really no way of knowing what might happen at this time--not enough data.
For people that play physically, the idea that Wizards is going to try and push the VTT and ignore tabletop borders on conspiratorial nonsense derived from a complete suspension of common sense. It would be economic suicide to cut off support for the largest portion of their playerbase, their oldest player base, the form of play that is immediately recognizable to the general non-gamer population and whose recognition forms their primary player acquisition mechanism, to miss out on all that sweet, sweet WizKids licensing money, etc. It would be a disaster that would make the OGL crisis look like a stubbed toe, and even the most brain dead, out of touch executives would be able to see that problem coming from a mile off.
No, not dead trees. I only buy digital, but I also don’t plan to use any VTT. I don’t care for them, they’re never as good as my imagination, kinda like how movies ruin books. Wat I want to know is:
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
1) The plan is yes. Whether homebrew in their VTT is possible right when it releases is an open question.
2) Why? If you're using a different VTT or meatspace there are many other tools for that.
3) No, that functionality exists today so I don't see it going anywhere.
4) Yes, that functionality exists today so I don't see it going anywhere.
2) Because it’s conveniently integrated into this site which I use to plan my encounters since all the monsters are here because this is where I buy my books. I don’t use another VTT, as I said, I don’t like them. And why do something on paper if I can do it all digitally integrated into the same system where I purchase my content.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Given that they talked about importing things from DDB, I would expect existing functionality to remain intact. My expectations on them doing more development on game tools (like the combat tracker) is lower, but that's independent of the VTT, I think that's been being de-prioritized for a long time.
I know, and it irks me. I really wish they would put more development into the DM’s side of things around here.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
If they do the combat tracker separately I certainly won't lose sleep over that, but their priority should be getting the VTT to work before they start carving out bits and pieces of it to be standalone apps.
Why?!? Why should they prioritize the VTT?!? What makes that any more important than non VTT development?
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
It was the centerpiece of both the most recent D&D Direct as well as the OneD&D announcement itself. It's importance to their upcoming strategy is undeniable.
As for why, they discussed this along with their "three pillars" - Fun/Convenience/Authenticity. No other VTT on the market, in their view, adequately delivers on all three, so they see the opportunity for a strong competitive advantage here. And that will give them a direct means to address the biggest weakness they see in the hobby right now, i.e. getting more people to transition from being players to being DMs.
Pretty sure DDB is grouped under digital publishing, not digital gaming, which means they're focused on making it a convenient reference platform. DM tools on DDB aren't being deprioritized because of the VTT, they're being deprioritized because they aren't part of their vision as to what the site is for.
I'd think the DM tools would become more robust because of the VTT. if they're expecting people to play online, having things like a combat tracker integrated in the VTT is obviously something to include. I think the question is how tightly integrated they will be. Will you need to use the VTT to use the tools they develop for it, or will thhey be more modular where some tools can be used without the VTT? Or will you have to kit bash something like run a VTT session, but not actually do anything, just keep it open and use the game tools without moving around the virtual tokens. I guess we'll find out next year.
None of which answers my question as to why that should take priority over development of DM’s tools for no -VTT users. This website was originally built to support in-person games around a tabletop. It’s actually in DDB’s mission to support TTD&D. The Combat Tracker is part of that.
That’s a disappointing perspective.
That’s exactly the stuff I’m wondering about. Exactly.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Can you be specific about what functionality the site will be losing then? There is no DDB combat tracker now. You'll be able to use DDB at your physical tables the way you do now. You'll still be getting what you're paying for now. What exactly is the issue? Did an employee promise you a combat tracker in writing or something?
There was a Combat Tracker available as an alpha release for subscribers for a time. There was much written and video recorded discussion between the Dev team and community on the development and intention to introduce that Combat Tracker (search "Combat Tracker" in the forums specifying the Announcements subforum). Sposta is right that prior to WotC's purchase of D&D Beyond, DDB was initially conceived of as a non virtual tabletop aid, it really didn't push online usage until Covid. A VTT was "possible" but seemed to be something DDB wouldn't venture into and there are OGL-gate conspiracy allegations as to why, but prior to the WotC purchase many DDB users were looking forward to a more robust encounter builder and a Combat Tracker going into Beta.
It seems clear that WotC will be publishing the physical game, but it's still trying to figure out how to best present the digital offerings in parallel to the revised core books. Whether that means DDB as we know it and VTT as two separate compartments accessible here at "D&D central" or some thing where we have to push aside prompts to try out VTT features when we just want DDB as we know it is something that's unclear now and will be clarified in the future.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I know this doesn't really contribute to the conversation directly, but just gonna say for me personally, a VTT will do next to nothing to get me more financially involved in DDB. In fact, I'm pretty sure it would of basically zero use to me beyond as a novelty occasionally...A properly developed combat tracker would actually be very helpful.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Uhh…. I don’t believe you know quite exactly what you’re talking about. I guess pictures of it didn’t happen…?
What’s that say? Does that say “Combat Tracker?” I believe it does.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting