Looking on Google, and what I've seen suggests that Eldritch Knight is the 3rd most popular Fighter subclass.
Considering some of its competition (Champ, Purple Dragon Knight), that’s not saying a ton. Plus, the most popular subclasses are typically from the PHB, which makes the EK 3rd of 3. Is it popular? Sure. Is it as popular as the Arcane Trickster…? I’d be surprised if it is. Not to mention that there is a vocal group that maligned the EK for its shortcomings quite vociferously, for the reasons cited above.👆
Well, both AT and EK have the same proportion of uses of their respective subclasses (16%) and the Fighter is used more than the Rogue (12% v 9%), then that does imply that EK is more popular than AT.
For your point about it being 3 of 3 in the PHB, AT gets beaten out by a non-PHB subclass and so is 3 of 2.
As an aside, Champion is the most popular Fighter subclass.
That's all according to one table, but while the exact percentages vary (probably different times of samples), they bear the same patterns.
Are there confounding factors? Sure. But it gives a good idea that the claim that they're "much less popular than Arcane Tricksters" is probably less than accurate. That's not to say that EK is good, but popularity isn't correlated (at least, certainly not strictly) with good in my experience.
Looking on Google, and what I've seen suggests that Eldritch Knight is the 3rd most popular Fighter subclass.
Considering some of its competition (Champ, Purple Dragon Knight), that’s not saying a ton. Plus, the most popular subclasses are typically from the PHB, which makes the EK 3rd of 3. Is it popular? Sure. Is it as popular as the Arcane Trickster…? I’d be surprised if it is. Not to mention that there is a vocal group that maligned the EK for its shortcomings quite vociferously, for the reasons cited above.👆
Well, both AT and EK have the same proportion of uses of their respective subclasses (16%) and the Fighter is used more than the Rogue (12% v 9%), then that does imply that EK is more popular than AT.
For your point about it being 3 of 3 in the PHB, AT gets beaten out by a non-PHB subclass and so is 3 of 2.
As an aside, Champion is the most popular Fighter subclass.
That's all according to one table, but while the exact percentages vary (probably different times of samples), they bear the same patterns.
Are there confounding factors? Sure. But it gives a good idea that the claim that they're "much less popular than Arcane Tricksters" is probably less than accurate. That's not to say that EK is good, but popularity isn't correlated (at least, certainly not strictly) with good in my experience.
But isn't the most popular subclass in every class the free one? Seems like that really skews the data. And some subclasses (as you mention, the PHB ones) have been around longer, so they'll naturally have more people having made them. And I think that's all from the pre-merger info when dndbeyond used to share much more stuff that WotC does. I guess my point is, we can't really draw any kind of meaningful conclusions about popularity from those datasets. There's too much noise.
Though, I completely agree that popular and good are not necessarily the same thing.
And to the original topic, I played in a group with an EK. The player did not enjoy it. This was right at the start off 5e, so we hadn't really worked out the rules and interactions yet. we were effectively new players. She went in thinking -- as others have said -- mostly the name and idea of it, she thought it was going to be a fighter who can throw a spell around and sometimes blast stuff. But it doesn't actually work that way, and she was pretty disappointed.
Honestly, I don’t see the point of an Eldritch Knight subclass, when you can already have a Fighter/Wizard multi class.
To be fair, Multiclassing this way gives you additional subclass features, however, you are also losing out on your Fighter progression.
E.g. a 5th level EK has Extra Attack and an ASI/Feat with 3x 1st level spell slots, while a multiclass fighter/wizard would be Fighter 3 / Wizard 2, if you also want to have 3x 1st level spellslots, but you are missing Extra Attack and the ASI.
At Level 11 that would be 2x Extra Attack vs. Fighter 7 / Wizard 4.
Yes, that can be optimized, but if you want to go full Fighter with a bit of magic on the side, multiclassing into wizard might not be always the best to do.
It’s not just about optimising abilities. It’s about the archetype already being buildable via multi-classing, while other Fighter sub-Classes get left out of the Player’s Handbook. There are plenty of other spell-casting Classes with fighting abilities too. I’d prefer room to be made for Fighter types like the Cavalier or Samurai over the Eldritch Knight.
I play an Eldritch Knight and honestly I see their spellcasting more as a Self-buff/Defensive style more than an offensive style.} Eldritch Knights can self-haste which gives them extra AC etc and with the Proficency in Constitution they have an advantage on concentration checks.
That is all before taking any feats: Metamagic Adept: Quickenspell to BA haste, Warcaster for the advantage on saves. They even get access to the Wizard spell list meaning if they get it in a spell gem they can cast spells like Tenser's Transformation, Wish, Meteor swarm etc.
I dunno if I've seen hate toward the Eldritch Knight, but I've definitely disappointment in it from my table. The subclass gives the impression of a warrior who can be effective at blasting, but then the reality of their 1/3-caster spell progression ensures that they don't get any good blasting spells until they're almost obsolete. I'm not sure an EK can even reach 3rd level slots before most campaigns are over.
I wonder if it would fit the expectation better if they used a half-caster version of pact magic slots. Higher level than what the current EK gets, but only one or two available in a given fight.
The Eldritch Knight is probably my favorite subclass in terms of vibes, my first dnd character was an Eldritch Knight and it was so much fun being a spellsword. That being said I keep finding myself unsatisfied with the execution of the EK. I think the best way to look at this is to compare EK spells to Paladin spells. Paladins have a bunch of spells they're likely to cast in combat, even ignoring Divine Smite, with a level 1 spell slot you can cast Command, Compel Duel, Wrathful/Searing Smite, all with just verbal components, and it you have a free hand or pre-cast it you can get Heroism, Divine Favor, Bless, or Shield of Faith, all of which boosts your combat ability. Meanwhile, some of the best spells for Eldritch Knights, like Absorb Elements, Magic Missile, Shield, and Thunderwave, all have somatic components, meaning unless you keep a free hand at all times you need War Caster to actually be a spell sword. Technically Booming/Green-Flame Blade have somatic components so you can't even cast them without War Caster. When I picture and Eldritch Knight I picture swinging around a flaming sword and maybe teleporting around, and unless your dm gives you magic items for that you can't teleport until level 7 with Misty Step, and can't have a flaming sword until level 13 with Elemental Weapon. Sure Eldritch Knights can be a really good subclass for optimizers, but for someone who doesn't go online to find the best builds in dnd it's really easy to build a bad Eldritch Knight.
As a 1/3 caster the Eldritch knight is a bit limited in the casting dept. Further there is little "eldritch" about it as the only "eldritch" spell is the warlock's Eldritch blast. I could see giving them that cantrip. Like many Gishes it is only really fully effective if it gets the ruby of the war mage early on so its weapon can be its spell focus. its supper slow (1/3 caster) progression means that its best bets are often cantrips which at least scale with character level not class level. There Eldritch blast would be good again as it gives an extra blast at each upgrade rather than more damage in the single blast. this at least would allow the EK to use it place of missile weapons for its extra attacks at range. However, making it a 1/2 caster starts to invade the Paladin and ranger spaces as "gishes" so it's unlikely they will ever improve it this way. Yes, it gets to cast evocation and abjuration spells but its progression is so slow that only its cantrips sort of keep up with "real" casters. Still as a martial that can cast evocation and abjuration spells its got abilities that no multiclass really has.
It is kind of interesting that some of the issues with the subclass are very similar to the issues that lead to the development of the half-caster of 5e compared to the ranger and paladin from previous additions.
On the naming thing I might be remembering it incorrectly, but didn't the prestige class that inspired the subclass and it takes its name from predate the warlocks existence?
I don't know about that, but I do think that the hexblade warlock is really just a better option if you want to be a spellblade-type kinda character. Getting eldritch smite to make weapon attacks more powerful dips very well into paladin satisfactory-wise and the hexing features are just fun thematically and playing wise. The specter you can make also gives a fun, albeit temporary, companion.
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DM: He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones.
Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
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But isn't the most popular subclass in every class the free one? Seems like that really skews the data. And some subclasses (as you mention, the PHB ones) have been around longer, so they'll naturally have more people having made them. And I think that's all from the pre-merger info when dndbeyond used to share much more stuff that WotC does. I guess my point is, we can't really draw any kind of meaningful conclusions about popularity from those datasets. There's too much noise.
Though, I completely agree that popular and good are not necessarily the same thing.
And to the original topic, I played in a group with an EK. The player did not enjoy it. This was right at the start off 5e, so we hadn't really worked out the rules and interactions yet. we were effectively new players. She went in thinking -- as others have said -- mostly the name and idea of it, she thought it was going to be a fighter who can throw a spell around and sometimes blast stuff. But it doesn't actually work that way, and she was pretty disappointed.
Never tried it myself so I couldnt say much about it
It’s not just about optimising abilities. It’s about the archetype already being buildable via multi-classing, while other Fighter sub-Classes get left out of the Player’s Handbook. There are plenty of other spell-casting Classes with fighting abilities too. I’d prefer room to be made for Fighter types like the Cavalier or Samurai over the Eldritch Knight.
I play an Eldritch Knight and honestly I see their spellcasting more as a Self-buff/Defensive style more than an offensive style.}
Eldritch Knights can self-haste which gives them extra AC etc and with the Proficency in Constitution they have an advantage on concentration checks.
That is all before taking any feats: Metamagic Adept: Quickenspell to BA haste, Warcaster for the advantage on saves.
They even get access to the Wizard spell list meaning if they get it in a spell gem they can cast spells like Tenser's Transformation, Wish, Meteor swarm etc.
I dunno if I've seen hate toward the Eldritch Knight, but I've definitely disappointment in it from my table. The subclass gives the impression of a warrior who can be effective at blasting, but then the reality of their 1/3-caster spell progression ensures that they don't get any good blasting spells until they're almost obsolete. I'm not sure an EK can even reach 3rd level slots before most campaigns are over.
I wonder if it would fit the expectation better if they used a half-caster version of pact magic slots. Higher level than what the current EK gets, but only one or two available in a given fight.
The Eldritch Knight is probably my favorite subclass in terms of vibes, my first dnd character was an Eldritch Knight and it was so much fun being a spellsword. That being said I keep finding myself unsatisfied with the execution of the EK. I think the best way to look at this is to compare EK spells to Paladin spells. Paladins have a bunch of spells they're likely to cast in combat, even ignoring Divine Smite, with a level 1 spell slot you can cast Command, Compel Duel, Wrathful/Searing Smite, all with just verbal components, and it you have a free hand or pre-cast it you can get Heroism, Divine Favor, Bless, or Shield of Faith, all of which boosts your combat ability. Meanwhile, some of the best spells for Eldritch Knights, like Absorb Elements, Magic Missile, Shield, and Thunderwave, all have somatic components, meaning unless you keep a free hand at all times you need War Caster to actually be a spell sword. Technically Booming/Green-Flame Blade have somatic components so you can't even cast them without War Caster. When I picture and Eldritch Knight I picture swinging around a flaming sword and maybe teleporting around, and unless your dm gives you magic items for that you can't teleport until level 7 with Misty Step, and can't have a flaming sword until level 13 with Elemental Weapon. Sure Eldritch Knights can be a really good subclass for optimizers, but for someone who doesn't go online to find the best builds in dnd it's really easy to build a bad Eldritch Knight.
As a 1/3 caster the Eldritch knight is a bit limited in the casting dept. Further there is little "eldritch" about it as the only "eldritch" spell is the warlock's Eldritch blast. I could see giving them that cantrip. Like many Gishes it is only really fully effective if it gets the ruby of the war mage early on so its weapon can be its spell focus. its supper slow (1/3 caster) progression means that its best bets are often cantrips which at least scale with character level not class level. There Eldritch blast would be good again as it gives an extra blast at each upgrade rather than more damage in the single blast. this at least would allow the EK to use it place of missile weapons for its extra attacks at range. However, making it a 1/2 caster starts to invade the Paladin and ranger spaces as "gishes" so it's unlikely they will ever improve it this way. Yes, it gets to cast evocation and abjuration spells but its progression is so slow that only its cantrips sort of keep up with "real" casters. Still as a martial that can cast evocation and abjuration spells its got abilities that no multiclass really has.
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It is kind of interesting that some of the issues with the subclass are very similar to the issues that lead to the development of the half-caster of 5e compared to the ranger and paladin from previous additions.
On the naming thing I might be remembering it incorrectly, but didn't the prestige class that inspired the subclass and it takes its name from predate the warlocks existence?
I don't know about that, but I do think that the hexblade warlock is really just a better option if you want to be a spellblade-type kinda character. Getting eldritch smite to make weapon attacks more powerful dips very well into paladin satisfactory-wise and the hexing features are just fun thematically and playing wise. The specter you can make also gives a fun, albeit temporary, companion.
DM: He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones.
Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
Also, this is for Redwall nerds: Eeeeeuuuuulllllllaaaaaaaalllllllliiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!