I think the main issue is not necessarily the odd xp discrepancy but more when there is a 3 or 4 level gap the lower level players have less fun cause they have less tools than the higher level ones.
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Loex - A Lizardfolk Lvl 4/7/4 Hexblade Profane Blood Hunter/ Battlesmith Artificer/ Cleric of the Forge Arborea - A Warforged Lvl 5 Hexblade Warlock Archive - A Autognome Lvl 3 Old One Warlock ER15 - A Autognome Lvl 7 Binder Warlock
I think the main issue is not necessarily the odd xp discrepancy but more when there is a 3 or 4 level gap the lower level players have less fun cause they have less tools than the higher level ones.
If there is a level gap of more than 1 level, the DM should rethink the amount of bonus XP that they are rewarding. It should be a small treat, not the main course. Everyone should be getting the same reward for completing trials, encounters and story with a sprinkling of extra XP for flavor.
These days I just use Milestones. It generally keeps the group the same levels and now, for me the missing a session is enough of a downside for anyone, after all playing is the major fun part.
That said I have always used a kind of milestone xp system prior to 5th ed, especially back in the D&D/AD&D days when xp amounts to level were quite varied, so as opposed to meticulously calculating the xp per enemy/encounter, I'd give out estimated chunks of it. Often having a flat per session xp amount (for attending a session) and then the general adventures stuff on top (which everyone got even if they missed the session, the theory being their character was still there).
I think the main issue is not necessarily the odd xp discrepancy but more when there is a 3 or 4 level gap the lower level players have less fun cause they have less tools than the higher level ones.
I also use a combo of XP and what I guess one could call modified milestones for this reason. I run a weekly table, but not everyone can be there every week. So we end up with XP disparities. I've house ruled that the party must be within 1 level of each other. So when a couple of our super regulars reached 6th level, those still at 4th leveled up to 5th. This still gives a reward to those who are there more frequently, while not penalizing those who can't be too much.
I think the main issue is not necessarily the odd xp discrepancy but more when there is a 3 or 4 level gap the lower level players have less fun cause they have less tools than the higher level ones.
I also use a combo of XP and what I guess one could call modified milestones for this reason. I run a weekly table, but not everyone can be there every week. So we end up with XP disparities. I've house ruled that the party must be within 1 level of each other. So when a couple of our super regulars reached 6th level, those still at 4th leveled up to 5th. This still gives a reward to those who are there more frequently, while not penalizing those who can't be too much.
I used to only award XP to characters present until the very same thing started to happen with several groups I ran in the past. Players who had commitments, ya know, adult responsibilities like work and family, were feeling punished –– they told me so –– when they saw their fellow Table players earning XP for showing up when they couldn't. I almost lost a few players because they thought they were being punished. Each independently said: Isn't this supposed to be fun? Where's the fun if I'm only noticed when I'm here. That's too much like work.
They were right. So I instituted a policy at my Table: Once a character starts a campaign, all end-of-combat XP (this was back when we played 1E and 2E) and (now) milestone XP are awarded evenly across the Adventuring Companions. Individual awards are earned at the Table –– unless the character who isn't present that day has a good Story reason why he/she wasn't. I've had a few players devise amazing narratives as to why. Some of them were so detailed I incorporated them as subplot into the campaign.
I try to accommodate my players. We're all at the Table to have fun.
I'm currently running Double XP, and I still award XP if combat is ignored or bypassed entirely.
As much as I like Milestones, I've seen problems arise when characters level faster than they are ready to. A particularly clever (or lucky) party in some games can level up several times without having much in the way of combat. Which is fine, until they're in the middle of a fight and don't know what their features do.
Double XP gives a level up every other week or week, which is just enough time for me to be confident that my players understand their abilities.
As a player, I need instant gratification. Surviving an encounter should feel rewarding. Without XP, most combats feel stupid - as much as I enjoy them, with some perspective, they're just a waste of resources and time. Some encounters can be their own reward, I suppose - a showdown with a vampire to save the country will feel epic and rewarding, XP or no. But on the other hand, sometimes you just run across some gnolls that want to give you a hard time.
My non-AL group uses milestones: I level them up when they've accomplished something. That said, I think I'm going to change to an experimental approach and level them up after any session in which everyone was present. I don't know if I'll tell them that, though, because then somebody might feel really bad about missing. We have a "quorum" rule that the game only happens if no more than one person cancels out.
Basically, I want to level them a lot faster for various reasons, and I don't want to deal with the XP bookkeeping there.
I'm not a DM but if it's cool I can pipe in from a player's perspective. My current group uses milestones when we hit certain story points, and that's working pretty well. It's keeping the group nice and even and awarding us when we accomplish certain things. In the past all my groups have been XP though, which was rewarding in it's own way but led to people getting out leveled by others. (Especially in my last group where we were in the bad habit of splitting the party and somehow I usually ended up in the group that got more XP almost every time, thus I leveled faster than everyone else did. Fun for me, annoying for them, and I understand that.)
I started as Milestone but moved to a custom XP system when players started cancelling at the very last minute. Now they lose XP if they cancel same day, and for poor table manners, however they gain xp for attending the session, role playing well at the table and for combat. I also give extra bonuses where I see fit. Attendance is up, cancellations are well in advance and the game itself has improved, no regrets,
So far, I've been liking the XP model, although I can see it being an issue if your party starts taking on more fights than they're ready for in an attempt to farm as much XP as possible, as fast as possible. I like having that 'carrot' though.
My current campaign was originally meant to be little more than a series of one-shots that occasionally interrupt the main campaign. I wanted to try my hand at DM without putting much commitment into it. At that time, I'd decided to try Milestone leveling because it seemed most appropriate.
However, the players got really into it and started asking if more could join it, before it had started. It evolved into a second game a week, a full-on campaign rather than one-shots. I didn't change it from Milestone, and honestly I'm kinda happy I didn't. Each level increase comes after a particular hurdle is surpassed or challenge overcome, whether it's narrative. combative, or if it's regarding character growth.
Now, none of my players have tested the boundaries of my games, in part I'm sure because they're going easy on a new DM, but I'm totally comfortable with the idea of my campaign "going off rails." I don't think Milestone leveling hinders that, either. It's a common complaint I've heard against it, that players on sidequests or just ignoring the DM's storyline, won't level up if using Milestone. That makes no sense to me. A significant event or achievement can just as easily take place outside of the major plot as within it, and can even be made important to be done so.
But at the end of the day, I just like it because it's far easier to keep track of, while having little to no negative effect. None of my players have asked me if they'd leveled up yet, or if they are close to leveling. Which implies to me that I'm keeping them moving forward at a pace everyone is comfortable with.
I think the main issue is not necessarily the odd xp discrepancy but more when there is a 3 or 4 level gap the lower level players have less fun cause they have less tools than the higher level ones.
Loex - A Lizardfolk Lvl 4/7/4 Hexblade Profane Blood Hunter/ Battlesmith Artificer/ Cleric of the Forge
Arborea - A Warforged Lvl 5 Hexblade Warlock
Archive - A Autognome Lvl 3 Old One Warlock
ER15 - A Autognome Lvl 7 Binder Warlock
DM - "Malign Intelligence"
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
These days I just use Milestones. It generally keeps the group the same levels and now, for me the missing a session is enough of a downside for anyone, after all playing is the major fun part.
That said I have always used a kind of milestone xp system prior to 5th ed, especially back in the D&D/AD&D days when xp amounts to level were quite varied, so as opposed to meticulously calculating the xp per enemy/encounter, I'd give out estimated chunks of it. Often having a flat per session xp amount (for attending a session) and then the general adventures stuff on top (which everyone got even if they missed the session, the theory being their character was still there).
- Loswaith
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
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I'm currently running Double XP, and I still award XP if combat is ignored or bypassed entirely.
As much as I like Milestones, I've seen problems arise when characters level faster than they are ready to. A particularly clever (or lucky) party in some games can level up several times without having much in the way of combat. Which is fine, until they're in the middle of a fight and don't know what their features do.
Double XP gives a level up every other week or week, which is just enough time for me to be confident that my players understand their abilities.
As a player, I need instant gratification. Surviving an encounter should feel rewarding. Without XP, most combats feel stupid - as much as I enjoy them, with some perspective, they're just a waste of resources and time. Some encounters can be their own reward, I suppose - a showdown with a vampire to save the country will feel epic and rewarding, XP or no. But on the other hand, sometimes you just run across some gnolls that want to give you a hard time.
Another medical problem. Indefinite hiatus. Sorry, all.
Stupid gnolls. Think they gno-it-all... ;)
My non-AL group uses milestones: I level them up when they've accomplished something. That said, I think I'm going to change to an experimental approach and level them up after any session in which everyone was present. I don't know if I'll tell them that, though, because then somebody might feel really bad about missing. We have a "quorum" rule that the game only happens if no more than one person cancels out.
Basically, I want to level them a lot faster for various reasons, and I don't want to deal with the XP bookkeeping there.
I'm not a DM but if it's cool I can pipe in from a player's perspective. My current group uses milestones when we hit certain story points, and that's working pretty well. It's keeping the group nice and even and awarding us when we accomplish certain things. In the past all my groups have been XP though, which was rewarding in it's own way but led to people getting out leveled by others. (Especially in my last group where we were in the bad habit of splitting the party and somehow I usually ended up in the group that got more XP almost every time, thus I leveled faster than everyone else did. Fun for me, annoying for them, and I understand that.)
Zevrana - Moon Elf/Rogue - Arcane Trickster/L5
I started as Milestone but moved to a custom XP system when players started cancelling at the very last minute. Now they lose XP if they cancel same day, and for poor table manners, however they gain xp for attending the session, role playing well at the table and for combat. I also give extra bonuses where I see fit.
Attendance is up, cancellations are well in advance and the game itself has improved, no regrets,
So far, I've been liking the XP model, although I can see it being an issue if your party starts taking on more fights than they're ready for in an attempt to farm as much XP as possible, as fast as possible. I like having that 'carrot' though.
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ModeratorMy current campaign was originally meant to be little more than a series of one-shots that occasionally interrupt the main campaign. I wanted to try my hand at DM without putting much commitment into it. At that time, I'd decided to try Milestone leveling because it seemed most appropriate.
However, the players got really into it and started asking if more could join it, before it had started. It evolved into a second game a week, a full-on campaign rather than one-shots. I didn't change it from Milestone, and honestly I'm kinda happy I didn't. Each level increase comes after a particular hurdle is surpassed or challenge overcome, whether it's narrative. combative, or if it's regarding character growth.
Now, none of my players have tested the boundaries of my games, in part I'm sure because they're going easy on a new DM, but I'm totally comfortable with the idea of my campaign "going off rails." I don't think Milestone leveling hinders that, either. It's a common complaint I've heard against it, that players on sidequests or just ignoring the DM's storyline, won't level up if using Milestone. That makes no sense to me. A significant event or achievement can just as easily take place outside of the major plot as within it, and can even be made important to be done so.
But at the end of the day, I just like it because it's far easier to keep track of, while having little to no negative effect. None of my players have asked me if they'd leveled up yet, or if they are close to leveling. Which implies to me that I'm keeping them moving forward at a pace everyone is comfortable with.
Guys, thanks for all your input. You've really given me a lot to think about!
C. Foster Payne
"If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around."