Keep in mind there are a lot of people who don’t have a group of friends to play with. And sometimes it can be hard to find a good group online.
And there are a lot more players than gms.
My experience as a player has been that “free” gms are not committed. They can be flakey, there’s nothing to keep them around, they might bail or ghost or just not be that good.
Of course all of that can also happen with a paid GM, but at least my attitude towards being paid is that you’re buying my attention and commitment and engagement. To me, there’s more of an incentive for the players to show up and play a good game (because they’re paying for it) and there’s more incentive for the GM to do a good job.
I hear all the arguments why people would never pay for the service and that’s ok. But don’t discount the people out there who do see value in paying a gm to provide some entertainment for a few hours.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Writer • Podcaster • Professional Gamemaster
playing Jin Wei, human (Kara-tur) way of the Four Elements Monk in the Princes of the Apocalypse
Keep in mind there are a lot of people who don’t have a group of friends to play with. And sometimes it can be hard to find a good group online.
And there are a lot more players than gms.
My experience as a player has been that “free” gms are not committed. They can be flakey, there’s nothing to keep them around, they might bail or ghost or just not be that good.
Of course all of that can also happen with a paid GM, but at least my attitude towards being paid is that you’re buying my attention and commitment and engagement. To me, there’s more of an incentive for the players to show up and play a good game (because they’re paying for it) and there’s more incentive for the GM to do a good job.
I hear all the arguments why people would never pay for the service and that’s ok. But don’t discount the people out there who do see value in paying a gm to provide some entertainment for a few hours.
Like I said, if you simply searched through the forums you'd see this particular forum skews against paid gaming. I'm unclear why you're pushing a poll out here. Part of me thinks you're researching the prospects of a paid DM, and again, paid DMing/GMing is a reality and there are much better places to gain an understanding of what people are willing to pay than a site where 60%+ of the respondents are "I would never." That means 60% of your sample are helping the pole with campaign selection.
It's just weird that you're taking a poll, then come in with you're "I hear you, but don't discount" that's really bad polling practices 101.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Keep in mind there are a lot of people who don’t have a group of friends to play with. And sometimes it can be hard to find a good group online.
And there are a lot more players than gms.
My experience as a player has been that “free” gms are not committed. They can be flakey, there’s nothing to keep them around, they might bail or ghost or just not be that good.
Of course all of that can also happen with a paid GM, but at least my attitude towards being paid is that you’re buying my attention and commitment and engagement. To me, there’s more of an incentive for the players to show up and play a good game (because they’re paying for it) and there’s more incentive for the GM to do a good job.
I hear all the arguments why people would never pay for the service and that’s ok. But don’t discount the people out there who do see value in paying a gm to provide some entertainment for a few hours.
Like I said, if you simply searched through the forums you'd see this particular forum skews against paid gaming. I'm unclear why you're pushing a poll out here. Part of me thinks you're researching the prospects of a paid DM, and again, paid DMing/GMing is a reality and there are much better places to gain an understanding of what people are willing to pay than a site where 60%+ of the respondents are "I would never." That means 60% of your sample are helping the pole with campaign selection.
It's just weird that you're taking a poll, then come in with you're "I hear you, but don't discount" that's really bad polling practices 101.
I've gleaned what I needed to from the poll already.
Now I'm just engaging in what I felt was an interesting conversation. You can think it is weird. That's part of what is interesting.
For clarity, since you find it so intriguing, I am already a paid DM. Part of the poll was to understand if there was a viable opportunity to find paid games in these forums, and I got that feedback before all the naysayers jumped on. Part of the poll was to understand what people on this forum might be willing to pay for games. I got that information as well. And part of the poll was to gauge the popularity of different campaigns, which is interesting whether or not it is related to paid gaming.
Does that help you understand why I put a poll out here?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Writer • Podcaster • Professional Gamemaster
playing Jin Wei, human (Kara-tur) way of the Four Elements Monk in the Princes of the Apocalypse
Maybe the question we should be asking is "how much do players value their DM's in general?"; rather than asking how much someone would pay for one.
Do your players make you feel valued as a DM?
Do you feel they respect you, and the time you put in?
Do they treat you like a person, or a game engine?
Do they thank you for the session when it ends?
Are you personally having fun running games for your players?
Do you look forward to running games for your players, or are you sweating from anxiety on game day to the point where you want to quit?
What could a player do, or does, that makes you feel appreciated, or important at the table? Do they compliment your ability to improv at the drop of a hat? Homebrewing specialty items for them? Writing up side quests based on their backstories? Do players actually value those things, and does that come through at the table in a way that makes you feel valued?
What IS the actual value of a DM to D&D? Could we have D&D without DM's? Do you feel like a DM's position could be replaced by AI?
To me, a DM is priceless. You can't put a number on that unless it doesn't feel that way. Once it feels like a job, then you should be paid for your time, and that is the value you put on yourself.
But, if your players love you and the time you put into their entertainment, then it never feels like a job, and the appreciation they show you is payment enough, in my opinion.
Everybody wants to be appreciated and loved for what they do for other people, and if players are doing that for their DM, they will want to feel that for themselves, and might consider becoming a DM too.
If you are a player who only ever encounters groups that treat the DM like crap, odds are you won't want to experience that, and will never take the leap to running games yourself.
While it may not happen here all that often (we did recently have a thread where a player was trying call out their DM for not knowing everybody's character sheet) , elsewhere online you can find plenty of players who do nothing but complain about their DM's over even the smallest of mistakes. If you are learning to DM, odds are you are going to see that stuff regularly on other TTRPG forums and YouTube while googling around for tips and tricks (I know I did... RPG horror stories almost made me reconsider playing D&D at all). Why would anybody want to run a game when being treated poorly is the expectation?
Paid DM'ing only exists because there are not enough DM's to run games for the 50 million some odd players currently wanting to play. If we value our DM's, we will convert more players, and paid DM'ing will taper off and go back to being something only companies use for team building exercises like the good ole days.
The other alternative is AI, which we all know is coming anyway, but the only way to fight it is for our current player base to love and value their DM's.
Hope you are all well, and have a great day!
PS: To any of my players reading this, you all make me feel appreciated and valued with every session we play. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!
Paid DM'ing only exists because there are not enough DM's to run games for the 50 million some odd players currently wanting to play. If we value our DM's, we will convert more players, and paid DM'ing will taper off and go back to being something only companies use for team building exercises like the good ole days.
I agree with the first part of this but not the second. Yes, we can certainly increase the number of players who will want to convert to DMing out of sheer earnestness/benevolence for the hobby, but that won't cause paid DMing to go away. It's a good thing (well, the silver lining on a not-so-good thing) that people can make money off of creative pursuits like this, because we live in a late-stage capitalist dystopia and every little bit helps.
The other alternative is AI, which we all know is coming anyway, but the only way to fight it is for our current player base to love and value their DM's.
AI isn't an either-or proposition. I can easily imagine plenty of IRL DMs who can utilize tools like ChatGPT to help make their lives easier and shorten their prep time. We're a long, long way off from AI replacing DMs outright.
Paid DM'ing only exists because there are not enough DM's to run games for the 50 million some odd players currently wanting to play. If we value our DM's, we will convert more players, and paid DM'ing will taper off and go back to being something only companies use for team building exercises like the good ole days.
I agree with the first part of this but not the second. Yes, we can certainly increase the number of players who will want to convert to DMing out of sheer earnestness/benevolence for the hobby, but that won't cause paid DMing to go away. It's a good thing (well, the silver lining on a not-so-good thing) that people can make money off of creative pursuits like this, because we live in a late-stage capitalist dystopia and every little bit helps.
The other alternative is AI, which we all know is coming anyway, but the only way to fight it is for our current player base to love and value their DM's.
AI isn't an either-or proposition. I can easily imagine plenty of IRL DMs who can utilize tools like ChatGPT to help make their lives easier and shorten their prep time. We're a long, long way off from AI replacing DMs outright.
Sounds good. Love your DM. Love your players. Enjoy the ride while it lasts.
Have a great night my friend, and may all your adventures bring you many joys!
Keep in mind there are a lot of people who don’t have a group of friends to play with. And sometimes it can be hard to find a good group online.
And there are a lot more players than gms.
My experience as a player has been that “free” gms are not committed. They can be flakey, there’s nothing to keep them around, they might bail or ghost or just not be that good.
Of course all of that can also happen with a paid GM, but at least my attitude towards being paid is that you’re buying my attention and commitment and engagement. To me, there’s more of an incentive for the players to show up and play a good game (because they’re paying for it) and there’s more incentive for the GM to do a good job.
I hear all the arguments why people would never pay for the service and that’s ok. But don’t discount the people out there who do see value in paying a gm to provide some entertainment for a few hours.
Like I said, if you simply searched through the forums you'd see this particular forum skews against paid gaming. I'm unclear why you're pushing a poll out here. Part of me thinks you're researching the prospects of a paid DM, and again, paid DMing/GMing is a reality and there are much better places to gain an understanding of what people are willing to pay than a site where 60%+ of the respondents are "I would never." That means 60% of your sample are helping the pole with campaign selection.
It's just weird that you're taking a poll, then come in with you're "I hear you, but don't discount" that's really bad polling practices 101.
I've gleaned what I needed to from the poll already.
Now I'm just engaging in what I felt was an interesting conversation. You can think it is weird. That's part of what is interesting.
For clarity, since you find it so intriguing, I am already a paid DM. Part of the poll was to understand if there was a viable opportunity to find paid games in these forums, and I got that feedback before all the naysayers jumped on. Part of the poll was to understand what people on this forum might be willing to pay for games. I got that information as well. And part of the poll was to gauge the popularity of different campaigns, which is interesting whether or not it is related to paid gaming.
Does that help you understand why I put a poll out here?
Oh, I understand, it just seems like you reinvented the wheel, maybe because it seemed easier, through a poll with a nonreflective sample of the market you're contemplating engaging ... when you could have simply done a more thorough and predictive analysis of the LFG/LFP subforum to gauge how DDB is actually used to drum up support for paid gaming ventures. But maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, or maybe I do, but have already summed that in an earlier post in thread.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I do not understand the the paid DM thing like at all, running the same published material for different groups over and over again is just something i cannot wrap my head around as being fun for me .
I do not understand the the paid DM thing like at all, running the same published material for different groups over and over again is just something i cannot wrap my head around as being fun for me .
I do not understand the the paid DM thing like at all, running the same published material for different groups over and over again is just something i cannot wrap my head around as being fun for me .
Folks replay games like Mass Effect multiple times—the main story might not change all that much, but different choices along the path can keep it interesting. Though rerunning the same campaign might not be my cup of tea either, I do not think it is hard to wrap one’s head around why folks might find it fun. After all, D&D is even more dynamic than an RPG video game is—and just because you are playing CoS again, doesn’t mean the players you are DMing for will give you the same experience.
I do not understand the the paid DM thing like at all, running the same published material for different groups over and over again is just something i cannot wrap my head around as being fun for me .
I think you'd be surprised what you might find fun when the alternatives are things like minimum-wage retail or outright unemployment.
Folks replay games like Mass Effect multiple times—the main story might not change all that much, but different choices along the path can keep it interesting. Though rerunning the same campaign might not be my cup of tea either, I do not think it is hard to wrap one’s head around why folks might find it fun. After all, D&D is even more dynamic than an RPG video game is—and just because you are playing CoS again, doesn’t mean the players you are DMing for will give you the same experience.
^ This too. Modules take on new life with every new set of players even when they have the same story beats.
And quite frankly, I don't think most players looking to play D&D are craving a specific module anyway - they just want to try out a build or concept they've been dying to play. And I haven't even gotten to paid games for experiencing niche playstyles like all-evil parties or PvP or high-level one-shots or zero-combat etc.
I do not understand the the paid DM thing like at all, running the same published material for different groups over and over again is just something i cannot wrap my head around as being fun for me .
I enjoy running the same adventures with different groups.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
I have a friend who made a go at trying to do paid GMing a few years back. He found it to be a completely miserable experience that was very different from GMing for a group of friends.
When you're GMing for friends, it's a hobby. Once money starts changing hands, it becomes a job, and you lose a bit of the rapport you had with the players.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I have a friend who made a go at trying to do paid GMing a few years back. He found it to be a completely miserable experience that was very different from GMing for a group of friends.
When you're GMing for friends, it's a hobby. Once money starts changing hands, it becomes a job, and you lose a bit of the rapport you had with the players.
It's definitely not for everyone. But clearly it's for some, if the stats on Startplaying are to be believed. I doubt the more prolific GMs there would have gone on to host dozens or even hundreds of paid campaigns and counting if they found the experience miserable.
I have a friend who made a go at trying to do paid GMing a few years back. He found it to be a completely miserable experience that was very different from GMing for a group of friends.
When you're GMing for friends, it's a hobby. Once money starts changing hands, it becomes a job, and you lose a bit of the rapport you had with the players.
It's definitely not for everyone. But clearly it's for some, if the stats on Startplaying are to be believed. I doubt the more prolific GMs there would have gone on to host dozens or even hundreds of paid campaigns and counting if they found the experience miserable.
It's for some, sure. It's just a matter of being aware that it's a very different experience from GMing for friends.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I do not understand the the paid DM thing like at all, running the same published material for different groups over and over again is just something i cannot wrap my head around as being fun for me .
For campaigns, no because there are so many free games out there (and I don't really have the funds), but I have paid for one shots a few times ($2.50, $5, $10) but those were exceptions (some were using credit I had amassed). There are a lot of free one-shots out there too but I'm playing in a paid ($5) Strixhaven one-shot next week at start playing games, but I have credit there from sharing my $10 referral code.
for me i hate people flaking. at bare minimum, if you looked at Dming like a job (only as a frame of reference) its a skilled job, required diverse capabilities from writing, game design, story design, pychology and logistics. even the lowest grade DM (if such a thing exists) this is 10 pounds an hour (national minimum wage) plus materials. to start a session that lasts a month you need to invest AT LEAST 8 hours... so the lowest quality DM is worth 80 pounds or about 100 dollars per month. someone with experience in different systems or is diverse in skills could as for.. 3 or 4 times the amount.
i provides about a 2-400 dollar (once again.. for reference not literal) value experience by this logic.. and people just dont turn up.. not even a word or apology sometimes. so yeah started charging for my games.. a few bucks a month to keep out timewasters
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Keep in mind there are a lot of people who don’t have a group of friends to play with. And sometimes it can be hard to find a good group online.
And there are a lot more players than gms.
My experience as a player has been that “free” gms are not committed. They can be flakey, there’s nothing to keep them around, they might bail or ghost or just not be that good.
Of course all of that can also happen with a paid GM, but at least my attitude towards being paid is that you’re buying my attention and commitment and engagement. To me, there’s more of an incentive for the players to show up and play a good game (because they’re paying for it) and there’s more incentive for the GM to do a good job.
I hear all the arguments why people would never pay for the service and that’s ok. But don’t discount the people out there who do see value in paying a gm to provide some entertainment for a few hours.
Writer • Podcaster • Professional Gamemaster
playing Jin Wei, human (Kara-tur) way of the Four Elements Monk in the Princes of the Apocalypse
Individual results may vary.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Like I said, if you simply searched through the forums you'd see this particular forum skews against paid gaming. I'm unclear why you're pushing a poll out here. Part of me thinks you're researching the prospects of a paid DM, and again, paid DMing/GMing is a reality and there are much better places to gain an understanding of what people are willing to pay than a site where 60%+ of the respondents are "I would never." That means 60% of your sample are helping the pole with campaign selection.
It's just weird that you're taking a poll, then come in with you're "I hear you, but don't discount" that's really bad polling practices 101.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I've gleaned what I needed to from the poll already.
Now I'm just engaging in what I felt was an interesting conversation. You can think it is weird. That's part of what is interesting.
For clarity, since you find it so intriguing, I am already a paid DM. Part of the poll was to understand if there was a viable opportunity to find paid games in these forums, and I got that feedback before all the naysayers jumped on. Part of the poll was to understand what people on this forum might be willing to pay for games. I got that information as well. And part of the poll was to gauge the popularity of different campaigns, which is interesting whether or not it is related to paid gaming.
Does that help you understand why I put a poll out here?
Writer • Podcaster • Professional Gamemaster
playing Jin Wei, human (Kara-tur) way of the Four Elements Monk in the Princes of the Apocalypse
Maybe the question we should be asking is "how much do players value their DM's in general?"; rather than asking how much someone would pay for one.
Do your players make you feel valued as a DM?
Do you feel they respect you, and the time you put in?
Do they treat you like a person, or a game engine?
Do they thank you for the session when it ends?
Are you personally having fun running games for your players?
Do you look forward to running games for your players, or are you sweating from anxiety on game day to the point where you want to quit?
What could a player do, or does, that makes you feel appreciated, or important at the table? Do they compliment your ability to improv at the drop of a hat? Homebrewing specialty items for them? Writing up side quests based on their backstories? Do players actually value those things, and does that come through at the table in a way that makes you feel valued?
What IS the actual value of a DM to D&D? Could we have D&D without DM's? Do you feel like a DM's position could be replaced by AI?
To me, a DM is priceless. You can't put a number on that unless it doesn't feel that way. Once it feels like a job, then you should be paid for your time, and that is the value you put on yourself.
But, if your players love you and the time you put into their entertainment, then it never feels like a job, and the appreciation they show you is payment enough, in my opinion.
Everybody wants to be appreciated and loved for what they do for other people, and if players are doing that for their DM, they will want to feel that for themselves, and might consider becoming a DM too.
If you are a player who only ever encounters groups that treat the DM like crap, odds are you won't want to experience that, and will never take the leap to running games yourself.
While it may not happen here all that often (we did recently have a thread where a player was trying call out their DM for not knowing everybody's character sheet) , elsewhere online you can find plenty of players who do nothing but complain about their DM's over even the smallest of mistakes. If you are learning to DM, odds are you are going to see that stuff regularly on other TTRPG forums and YouTube while googling around for tips and tricks (I know I did... RPG horror stories almost made me reconsider playing D&D at all). Why would anybody want to run a game when being treated poorly is the expectation?
Paid DM'ing only exists because there are not enough DM's to run games for the 50 million some odd players currently wanting to play. If we value our DM's, we will convert more players, and paid DM'ing will taper off and go back to being something only companies use for team building exercises like the good ole days.
The other alternative is AI, which we all know is coming anyway, but the only way to fight it is for our current player base to love and value their DM's.
Hope you are all well, and have a great day!
PS: To any of my players reading this, you all make me feel appreciated and valued with every session we play. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!
I agree with the first part of this but not the second. Yes, we can certainly increase the number of players who will want to convert to DMing out of sheer earnestness/benevolence for the hobby, but that won't cause paid DMing to go away. It's a good thing (well, the silver lining on a not-so-good thing) that people can make money off of creative pursuits like this, because we live in a late-stage capitalist dystopia and every little bit helps.
AI isn't an either-or proposition. I can easily imagine plenty of IRL DMs who can utilize tools like ChatGPT to help make their lives easier and shorten their prep time. We're a long, long way off from AI replacing DMs outright.
Sounds good. Love your DM. Love your players. Enjoy the ride while it lasts.
Have a great night my friend, and may all your adventures bring you many joys!
Oh, I understand, it just seems like you reinvented the wheel, maybe because it seemed easier, through a poll with a nonreflective sample of the market you're contemplating engaging ... when you could have simply done a more thorough and predictive analysis of the LFG/LFP subforum to gauge how DDB is actually used to drum up support for paid gaming ventures. But maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, or maybe I do, but have already summed that in an earlier post in thread.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I do not understand the the paid DM thing like at all, running the same published material for different groups over and over again is just something i cannot wrap my head around as being fun for me .
A person’s gotta eat. Hustle economy FTL
Folks replay games like Mass Effect multiple times—the main story might not change all that much, but different choices along the path can keep it interesting. Though rerunning the same campaign might not be my cup of tea either, I do not think it is hard to wrap one’s head around why folks might find it fun. After all, D&D is even more dynamic than an RPG video game is—and just because you are playing CoS again, doesn’t mean the players you are DMing for will give you the same experience.
I think you'd be surprised what you might find fun when the alternatives are things like minimum-wage retail or outright unemployment.
^ This too. Modules take on new life with every new set of players even when they have the same story beats.
And quite frankly, I don't think most players looking to play D&D are craving a specific module anyway - they just want to try out a build or concept they've been dying to play. And I haven't even gotten to paid games for experiencing niche playstyles like all-evil parties or PvP or high-level one-shots or zero-combat etc.
I enjoy running the same adventures with different groups.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
I have a friend who made a go at trying to do paid GMing a few years back. He found it to be a completely miserable experience that was very different from GMing for a group of friends.
When you're GMing for friends, it's a hobby. Once money starts changing hands, it becomes a job, and you lose a bit of the rapport you had with the players.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
It's definitely not for everyone. But clearly it's for some, if the stats on Startplaying are to be believed. I doubt the more prolific GMs there would have gone on to host dozens or even hundreds of paid campaigns and counting if they found the experience miserable.
It's for some, sure. It's just a matter of being aware that it's a very different experience from GMing for friends.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Beats digging ditches one supposes.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
For campaigns, no because there are so many free games out there (and I don't really have the funds), but I have paid for one shots a few times ($2.50, $5, $10) but those were exceptions (some were using credit I had amassed). There are a lot of free one-shots out there too but I'm playing in a paid ($5) Strixhaven one-shot next week at start playing games, but I have credit there from sharing my $10 referral code.
Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.
for me i hate people flaking.
at bare minimum, if you looked at Dming like a job (only as a frame of reference) its a skilled job, required diverse capabilities from writing, game design, story design, pychology and logistics. even the lowest grade DM (if such a thing exists) this is 10 pounds an hour (national minimum wage) plus materials.
to start a session that lasts a month you need to invest AT LEAST 8 hours... so the lowest quality DM is worth 80 pounds or about 100 dollars per month. someone with experience in different systems or is diverse in skills could as for.. 3 or 4 times the amount.
i provides about a 2-400 dollar (once again.. for reference not literal) value experience by this logic.. and people just dont turn up.. not even a word or apology sometimes.
so yeah started charging for my games.. a few bucks a month to keep out timewasters